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2010-09-17, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
Interesting...I'll have to poke my head at it when I get to my books. Any update on judging progess from DaragosKitsune or BobVosh?
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2010-09-17, 03:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
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2010-09-17, 03:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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2010-09-17, 11:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
I have edited Moudo's scoring.
It did not help that I was referring to a Substitution Level as an Alternate Class Feature. They use similar rules, but the text on substitution levels is a little tricky. It specifically states that SL's advance spellcasting, bardic music and favoured enemy bonuses. It also states that all level based progression is advanced unless it is specifically excluded in the SL text. Moudo would use standard fighter skill point for that level, but would gain the SA IMO.
Not a big deal, as it would not effect progression, hence the small penalty. I managed to allay most of my concerns on other builds by reading the relevant text, I should have taken a little more time with Moudo's scoring. Happy to make the correction.Last edited by WinWin; 2010-09-17 at 11:30 PM.
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2010-09-18, 01:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
Last edited by BobVosh; 2010-09-18 at 01:55 AM.
Originally Posted by Alabenson
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2010-09-18, 11:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- The Mindfields
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2010-09-18, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
I was hoping Dulcinea would do good, just adore the overall concept with her. Go go standard gnomes!
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2010-09-19, 05:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
I'm not late, I just worshiped the builds presented to me by staring at the monitor until my lids closed in satisfaction.
I hope Kord is a late sleeper or I am getting such a greatsword to the face.
Checking formatting, and so forth with the post. Expect this post to be edited when I am satisfied I won't look like even more of an idiot.
As people have mentioned about Stoneblessed vs Gnome being an issue as far as originality goes, I decided to sidestep the issue and not penalize either decision. I was a bit surprised at how few gnomes we had in a gnome only PrC, but then again stoneblessed is so good.
Moudo:
SpoilerOriginality:
Twisted lord, eh?
4
Power:
Fairly reliant on sneak attack for damage, so you will have an issue against immune enemies. I notice you mention giving a wand of grave strike to your local batman, however that spell has Range: Personal. So he can’t help you there. Without craven or other such bonus damage you don’t have much of a punch beyond the 7D6 SA dice.
3
Elegance:
A lot of variant class features, which all work well. Very smooth work through for 3 classes.
4.5
Use of Secret Ingredient:
You are in blade bravo all 10 levels, you use the AC bonus by getting a ring of reduce person, and 2D6 SA. You don’t seem to have much focus on the other features. Small but deadly won’t help much as you don’t really deal much bonus damage and use a 1D3 weapon. Flourish helps, but most of your build would be better as more SA fighter, or something else. There doesn’t seem like there is much reason for blade bravo.
2
Total: 13.5
Sizok:
SpoilerOriginality: Dromite wilder. Interesting.
3.5
Power:
Only 1 rank with a massive cha bonus means you can use wands that you have used before with only a 20% failure chance, so you can easily pick up some stuff to help you out. You mention gravestrike, and golem strike. Craven +2D6 sneak attack averages 26 extra damage with a sneak attack. However your charisma to hit and damage is what makes this build scary. Goad for things that works on, an AC that is nigh impossible to hit if they are large and gets worse the bigger they are. The first levels are likely to be deadly, as you mentioned though. Official frown comes out for belt of battle, but beyond that nothing hideously offending.(Don’t have the DMG2 to look at stunning weapon property)
4
Elegance:
Ah, stoneblessed will always look like a splash even when it is maxed. Every level you get something worthwhile, nothing to tighten up. Only 1 splash, and swashbuckler fits well with BB anyway. Flaws were optional so I don’t have to take points off.
4
Use of Secret Ingredient:
Very, very good. You focus on the charisma to make use of it as a tank, the damage for it, crits are scary with you bonus damage. All ten levels (unless you go with the LA buy off). Even the 2D6 melee sneak attack helps a lot as it lets you qualify for craven.
5
Total: 16.5
Wruk
Spoiler
Originality: /fanboy-on SQUEEL, Xorvintaal /fanboy-off *ahem* Urban Ranger, Dragon stalker, and Xorvintaal exarch?An actual gnome?
4.5
Power:
Nothing special going on for the first few levels, just standard Psy War. This build never gets to extremely deadly levels, however it seems to be a very, very good scout. The mindsight trick is a little cheesey, but fun and not really game breaking. Saves are kinda weak. AC is really weak, although with compression + small starting size you can get decent with it. Damage is frankly non-existant. Frightful presence is humorous, but weak at the higher levels. Immunity to death for any significant length of time is nice.
3
Elegance:
All over with your levels, splashing around. No real dead levels, the build is very much playable 1-20.
3.5
Use of Secret Ingredient:
You don’t have a section devoted to explaining this. Obviously with your dragon hunter thing going on the AC is pleasant. Your bluff isn’t enough to get the goad working, the crit fishing isn’t going to matter much with your build.
2
Total: 13
Nekoya
Spoiler
Originality:
Tibbits. I hate Tibbits. However that is unimportant, as its unexpected, along with Ruthar.
4.5
Power:
Surprisingly good for tiny critter. Even without sneak attack its ok, since blind is part of it. When blinded the damage shoots up to a very respectable amount. Great scout as most of these builds seem to be, but the low levels from 5-10 seem a little weak.
4
Elegance:
Something for each level, although it feels like a waste for 3 feats for rapier when it is not your main damage dealer. Scratch that(pun intended) 2 feats, but you list focus:rapier 2x at 9th and 10th. I’m not thrilled about the April Fool’s feats.
3
Use of Secret Ingredient:
Works well, the AC bonus is enough to make you have an acceptable level of AC. Crits are pleasant with your build. You got the charisma + bluff ranks to use goad, although I’m not sure that is your best bet for this character as it could be painful.
4
Total: 15.5
Raakhama’karma The Wanderer
Spoiler
Originality:
Let us see. Githzerai Swashbuckler/Monk/Stone Blessed/Ranger/Blade Bravo
Points for Githzerai. A unexpected medium sized entry, and monk is generally unseen.
3.5
Power:
With so much LA in the front row you will not live the first few levels. Level 1 swashbuckler at level 4? Dex is great though, to hit should be decent. Unfortunately unarmed strike doesn’t count as a natural attack, so you have a huge penalty if you try to TWF with rapier + UAS. So your to-hit suffers HARD for this. I don’t see much that amazing outside that. Maybe if you went with a creature with a claw attack instead of monk that would have helped. Spring attack clashes hard with sneak attack, flurry, twf, and most of what you seem to be going for.
2
Elegance:
Assuming the use of LA buyoff isn’t generally done with IC. Level progression goes nicely, but I don’t like the 2 splashes of 1-2 levels.
2
Use of Secret Ingredient:
Full 10 levels. However you don’t show if you try for goad (don’t have the charisma to back up goad), and it doesn’t look like it adds much beyond a little crit fishing. You have a chance for a decent AC and mention lethal Riposte for trip attacks. I don’t know if this is the class for you.
2
Total: 11.5
Ssejkosjth
Spoiler
Originality:
I’m glad someone decided to go with a ToB despite incompetent vagaries muttered by me. I like the classes and how they meld.
4
Power:
83 ac vs medium creatures. What. Also I like the options of fly + breath weapon on the tiny gnome in the sky. You damage didn’t suffer, you don’t require sneak attack which is almost unique in this contest. Good ole compression as seems very common right about now. You do what you do, and you do it well. However you don’t do a lot of other things, which I can’t really hold against you.
4
Elegance:
Strategic jumps into and out of shadow mind + swordsage. No flaws, and it flows together well. I understand some DMs don’t like jumping in and out of classes, but I never mind so long as it’s the same classes. You stick with them beyond the 2 levels or less that does annoy me.
4
Use of Secret Ingredient:
I can’t see anything major you don’t use, and your ac is just silly vs normal sized creatures. A new word for silly needs to be made for larger than medium. The blade bravo class seems a little forced, but with the reasonable explanation of want riposte + ac it works well.
4
Total: 16
Note: Huh. All 4s.
Jack
Spoiler
Originality:
Were monkey. First weremonkey I have ever seen. He is also a pirate and ninja. Were-monkey Pirate-Ninja. I can’t help but noticed he is dreaded as well. I can’t wait to read the other judges reviews for this guy.
4.5
Power:
Let see what this were-primate does! Lots of LA means he is hard to play at low level. However the DR 10/silver makes it doable at 4th. Great damage, and what I’m loving in this competition is all the weapon attacks like 1D3+23. Got the AC to tank, which seems good with this. TWF with a great crit range on one weapon, and not relying on sneak attack. Great to hit, so you can actually do something with that mosquito sticker.
4
Elegance:
I assume that skip with the HD is for the skills. Levels flow together well. Avoid dips of 2 levels. Maybe would have saved sword sage levels til a bit higher to grab higher maneuvers, but I can’t argue with anything you got going. Hate how your chart stretched out, but that isn’t going to be a penalty here.
4
Use of Secret Ingredient:
Definitely fit the flavor well, however you lack goad power. Well you have it, but can’t really pull it off. Everything else works well here. Your guy can fit in blade bravo easily and smoothly.
4.5
Total: 17
Dulcinea
Spoiler
Originality:
If anyone would have told me they were expecting this, I would slap them and say “No, you were not.”
5
Power:
Deadly. Very Deadly. One of the reasons this isn’t a 5 is you don’t have a way to fly, and didn’t leave the money to do so.
4.5
Elegance:
Every level is useful. Nothing wasted. Official frown for belt of battle. I don’t like the 2 and 1 level splashes. All in all very good.
4
Use of Secret Ingredient:
You use everything. More over you don’t cripple yourself for going tiny, and its not limited to until the first dispel. All 10 levels.
5
Total: 18.5
Note: I really like the way you did the background. Different and fits the character well.
Jakob
Spoiler
Originality:
I’m kinda surprised this is the only lurk. Other than that drow fighter and assassin were not classes I was expecting.
4
Power:
It is very hard to see you. Very. Adding dex+int to sneak attacks is great. Damage will be impressive despite you being counted as diminutive. You little midget, you. I really like the insightful feint. Standard issues with sneak attack.
4
Elegance:
I don’t like the collar, it is just too good. The levels work together well, and build off one another decently. I don’t like splashing around still, so points docked there. No dead levels which pleases me.
3
Use of Secret Ingredient:
Only half of the ingredient is used before you dump it into the trash. That said, what is there is great for the character. You may only use half of it, but you use it to a very good potential. You have maxed bluff, but I’m not feeling goad. However I don’t think you made your guy to take a hit at all, with HiPS + hide out the yin-yang.
3.5
Total: 14.5
Adding my scores to this:
Moudo 42.5
Sizok 45
Wruk 38.25
Nekoya 46.25
Raak'hama'Karma 29.5
Ssejkosjth 42.25
Jack 48.75
Dulcinea 51
Jakob 40.75Last edited by BobVosh; 2010-09-19 at 06:31 AM.
Originally Posted by Alabenson
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2010-09-19, 07:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
You know, BobVosh, I checked earlier this morning and saw no scores. I was coming back to back a joke about taking thy Kord's name in vain, but I am happy to have found your scores. Glad you had a chance to sleep on it.
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2010-09-19, 09:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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2010-09-20, 02:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
By my count that means we're still waiting for two judges.
An update from DaragosKitsune or Keld Denar would be helpful. If possible, I'd like to wait for at least one more score, but I understand if that isn't possible do to the concerns of the less electronic segments of life.78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. [...]Where did you start yours?
A street riot in a major city that was getting violent.
Spoiler
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2010-09-20, 07:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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- Montreal, QC
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
Actually, only 1 judge. Keld Denar said earlier on this page that he has to bow out of judging due to a ridiculous work schedule right now.
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2010-09-20, 07:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
Sounds like Keld may still grace us with his presence.
EDIT: I just realized that the scores provided for Raak'hama'Karma by BobVosh only total 9.5, while he listed a total of 11.5. Which is it? Sorry to ask, but the reason for my curiosity is that I [nerd]keep track of all of the judges' scores on an Excel spreadsheet that automatically calculates running averages and current standings.[/nerd]
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2010-09-20, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
I have to say that monk's unarmed strike not being counted as natural attacks is... dubious. It does mention in the monk's description that you count them as natural attacks when it's more advantageous.
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2010-09-20, 08:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Seattle, WA
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
Well, I got the water back on, so hopefully I'll have time to finish it up today. Hang tight kiddies!
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2010-09-20, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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2010-09-20, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
Last edited by BobVosh; 2010-09-20 at 10:44 AM.
Originally Posted by Alabenson
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2010-09-20, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
Can still flurry while TWF, despite what Skip says...
Unfortunately, it works at cross purposes with other elements of the build, IMO. Great for a campaign, but not the most powerful build in this competition. If I have missed something important I will happily modify my score. That goes for any submission.
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2010-09-20, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
So, I was bored today.
My spreadsheet now has every official judge's score from all eleven Iron Chefs so far, along with the standings and highest rank in each category. It also automatically tracks and displays the current standings as you input the judge's scores.
It ain't pretty behind the scenes (mostly because I don't know anything more advanced than basic arithmatic and logic functions), but I think it's coming along. If any Playgrounders with more Excel chops want a copy to tweak, PM me. There's plenty of work to be done--for example, it still doesn't display a tie; it just shows one entry and a reading of FALSE instead of the other.
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2010-09-20, 09:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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- The Edge of Madness
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
My computer crashed, taking my judging with it. I'm updating from a PSP to state that I will be unable to submit a judgement.
SpoilerIf the line between genius and madness is so thin...
Then why do so few in this day and age toe said line?
Thanks to Bongos for the v-13 avvie!
I think the lesson that we can take away from this is that tentacles solve everything, and if you have a problem, then you just need more tentacles. - seadragonknight of the BG boards.
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2010-09-20, 09:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Seattle, WA
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
I have 3 done, 6 to go. 33.33333333333333333333333333333333333333333% done!
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2010-09-20, 09:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
The suspense is killing us...I can only imagine what it's doing to the competitors!
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2010-09-20, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
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2010-09-20, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. [...]Where did you start yours?
A street riot in a major city that was getting violent.
Spoiler
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2010-09-20, 11:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
So just heard about this contest. Any idea when the next round will start? Interested in giving it a try.
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2010-09-20, 11:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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2010-09-21, 01:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. [...]Where did you start yours?
A street riot in a major city that was getting violent.
Spoiler
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2010-09-21, 06:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
Awesome, I'm looking forward to it.
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2010-09-21, 07:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Seattle, WA
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
I have 3 left, if you don't mind waiting for me. I should be able to finish tonight! Some of these are REALLY hard to judge.
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2010-09-21, 09:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Sydney, NSW, Australia
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XI
Oh cool, I'd be very interested in coming in next round!
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