One Piece -- Discussion

[Dusk Eclipse]

I don't really get your comment Soras Teva Gee, so I'll explain mine in case it was misunderstood
I meant that the each and every of the islands visited by the straw-hats has received some form of property damage, the only one I am not really sure is Skipea; but I think they did destroy something.

And the Ennies Lobby Buster Call wouldn't have occurred without the Srawhats interference as Spandam activated the golden (?) Den Den Mushi in panic due the attacks of the crew.

[Soras Teva Gee]

No I understood I just had an ill written and malformed post.

I'm noting that whatever the number it wouldn't quite capture all the damage and chaos that follows the crew. Because at least once the Strawhat presence has resulted in their worlds equivalent of a nuke going off.

[lord_khaine]

I could cite the numerous times Nami's made off with piles of money and treasure, but you're just going to say "That's not Luffy so it doesn't cound." You want a ridiculously specific example, despite the fact that it's not actually relevant to Luffy's pirate status? Fine. Skypeia. Even after befriending the natives and overthrowing their god, they proceed to make off in the night with a huge load of their treasure. Sure, the Skypeians would have outright given it to them along with more treasure, but the only one to ever realize that was Nico Robin.

Yes, and so far all those examples you have shown are of theft, but we need robbery to make them pirates.

And on the other hand, then i can find countless examples that makes them heroes, rebels or just general vandals/troublemakes, and if in the myriad of chapters there is a singel example of them behaving like actual pirates, then its outnumbered by far.

He's not classified as a rebel or revolutionary or anything of the sort because his actions are not politically motivated. He's not fighting for some big cause or even directly trying to bring down the world government, he's just going about his merry way on a PIRATE ship. Even when his actions have major political implications (Alabasta, Enies Lobby, Impel Down, Marineford) his motivations remain the same: to protect his friends. Even burning the flag at Enies Lobby, which the government saw as a declaration of war, was only done so Luffy would demonstrate just how far they would go to rescue Robin. Luffy will certainly fight alongside rebels for his own motives, but he never fights for a political cause, so he's not really defined as a rebel in the context of the series. If you want to use the broad definition of rebel, that is someone who defies law and authority in general, then sure, Luffy and crew are rebels as well as pirates.

And yet we need to broaden the definition of rebel far less than that of pirate to make it stick, though in that case i guess anarchist is more fitting.

Originally Posted by One Piece Wiki Mythbusters FAQ

Unfortunately, just because you come up with a grand name like "One Piece Wiki Mythbuster FAQ", then it doesnt mean that the general quality of your writing or your arguments improve in any way, and so im ignoring it because its a load of rubbish, that while listing all their crimes, still doesnt manage to come up with a singel example of them behaving like pirates.

It does however dig up some decent arguments for them being heroes, like when they saved Alabasta.

Edit.

Dug out this example of the author being a total fool

Privateering: They have also committed at least one act that would fall into the classification of "Privateering" (Igaram hired the crew to protect Princess Vivi on a price agreed by Nami together with their actions in Arabasta against Crocodile). Initially, outside of the Shichibukai, this is frowned upon and could have gotten the Arabasta royal family in trouble.

Firstly a privateer isnt a pirate, and this example doesnt even make them privateers.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Unfortunately, just because you come up with a grand name like "One Piece Wiki Mythbuster FAQ", then it doesnt mean that the general quality of your writing or your arguments improve in any way, and so im ignoring it because its a load of rubbish, that while listing all their crimes, still doesnt manage to come up with a singel example of them behaving like pirates.

Insulting someone you disagree with and not addressing their statements because you evidently missed the obvious and think a name pretentious does absolute wonders for your credibility by the by.

[DiscipleofBob]

snip

You have officially failed to provide any sort of evidence to even try to form a debate other than "nuh-uh" and "because I said so." Your statements are ludicrously false. Your vocabulary definitions clearly operate out of some distorted dictionary that exists only in your head. You have no business arguing about the quality of writing in anyone's arguments when you can't even be bothered to spell-check your own work. In the future, if you wish to try to debate such an outrageous claim on your part and belittle anyone who rightly refutes you, you should at least have something resembling evidence to back it up. Now unless you have something legitimate to discuss or debate, we're done here.

[lord_khaine]

Insulting someone you disagree with and not addressing their statements because you evidently missed the obvious and think a name pretentious does absolute wonders for your credibility by the by.

And you clearly missed the important thing about this, namely that this isnt a official source so i feel solely within my right to insult the author of that piece, since he is allready insulting everyone else who might disagree with his statement by calling them myths.

That aside, i didnt miss anything, but when i read though it i didnt find anything of relevance, and didnt feel like going though his claims one by one, when all he had done were listing the criminal activities of the strawhat crew.

You have officially failed to provide any sort of evidence to even try to form a debate other than "nuh-uh" and "because I said so." Your statements are ludicrously false. Your vocabulary definitions clearly operate out of some distorted dictionary that exists only in your head. You have no business arguing about the quality of writing in anyone's arguments when you can't even be bothered to spell-check your own work. In the future, if you wish to try to debate such an outrageous claim on your part and belittle anyone who rightly refutes you, you should at least have something resembling evidence to back it up. Now unless you have something legitimate to discuss or debate, we're done here.

You are as usual missing the point, my argument is that they have not behaved like pirates (and im refering to the official definition, robbers at sea), and you had then taken the burden of evidence on yourself by claiming that they did behave like pirates.
And if that had been the case, then you really shouldnt have had any problems digging out a couple of examples of them robbing some civilian ships.

Unfortunately you have failed completely in that regard, providing no evidence or example whatsoever of them actualy doing any robbing, instead just copy-pasting someone elses work.

Unfortunately its quality were not better than what you have providet so far, but it did show that there are apperently lots of people who agree with me on the SH crews status.

Still, good job on attacking the person instead of the argument, you should considder going into politics with skills like that.
And i assure you my spelling would improve wastly by swiching over to my native tounge, but that would defeat the purpose of this forum.

And on a closing statement, i have newer belittled anyone for disagreeing with me, but if my stand is so wrong that people can "rightly refute me", then shouldnt it have been a bit easyer providing those manga references that proves me wrong?
It is after all only something that i have been asking for from the start of this argument.

But still, your giving up?

Fine by me, your insults were getting tiresome anyone, you really should try to learn that not anyone will agree with what you say, especaly not when you cant provide evidence to back you up.

[Soras Teva Gee]

And you clearly missed the important thing about this, namely that this isnt a official source so i feel solely within my right to insult the author of that piece, since he is allready insulting everyone else who might disagree with his statement by calling them myths.

That aside, i didnt miss anything, but when i read though it i didnt find anything of relevance, and didnt feel like going though his claims one by one, when all he had done were listing the criminal activities of the strawhat crew.

Except you didn't object to it as non-official. You ignored it and belittled it because it did not agree with you. Nor is "non-official" particularly meaningful here, allow me to turn this back at you: You have no authority, everything you say is irrelevant I don't have to refute it.

Actually that was kinda fun I should do that more often.

Anyways your dismissal here also raises what is fundamentally wrong with your argument. You have granted that the Strawhats are criminals. So what do you call a criminal group that operates as the crew of a ship?

Now if I'm summarizing correctly you don't think the Strawhats are pirates because they don't go robbing other ships at sea. While this might might get the crew off in our world on the specific and particular charge of piracy... Then again I expect it would be made to stick on the "ocean going criminals basis" given that they might well be less particular, but I won't take a firm position on some 200 year back legal traditions. And they are lapsed as there has been some debate on how to handle modern pirates in terms of say jurisdiction for example.

However this is all besides the point, as our world is not One Piece. There quite evidently "pirate" is far more then merely at sea robbery. Which rather makes sense for a world of islands and seas. After all what do you call a group of ocean going criminals that operate outside the law? Clearly everyone goes "pirate" and thats how it is. The Marines consider raising a Jolly Roger and calling yourself one enough, and as they are the dominant law enforcement that covers the legal end. Sure the World Government isn't particularly just but they are still the government and thus write the law. And in particular the Strawhats have declared themselves so and clearly agree with this notion. As the only alternatives seem to be local criminals or the Revolutionaries (Luffy isn't political or a member so no there) until there is an alternative the Strawhats are still pirates

Sure they are still The Pirates that Don't Do Anything, but they aren't alone in this within the universe. That kind of "benevolent" pirate actually originally had the term Peace Main applied to it which as pirates out not for profit but for freedom and adventure. Something seen not only with the Strawhats but also in Shanks, Whitebeard, and probably Roger.

[Xondoure]

Is everyone still igoring all the stolen meat?

[Soras Teva Gee]

Is everyone still igoring all the stolen meat?

Did they steal it off a ship while also underway on the Merry/Sunny?

[Xondoure]

Did they steal it off a ship while also underway on the Merry/Sunny?

Pirates aren't allowed to pillage ports now?

[AtlanteanTroll]

And if Oda said that Blackbeard were a hero, would you belive that as well? Deal undone.

1: If he said he was a hero, he would be a hero, yes. Word of God, and all that. Of course Oda wouldn't ever say that, and if he did, I'm sure it'd be explained quite will in story.
2: I'm not sure what the technical name for it is, but that logic of yours is some sort of rhetorical fallacy. I'm thinking it's reductio ad absurdum.v

[Soras Teva Gee]

Pirates aren't allowed to pillage ports now?

Not as I've been reading this.

Mind you I think they are pirates, but if piracy is to be defined very strictly as robbery at sea well and not just criminal activity from a group organized as a ships crew operating outside the law well... there you go

Something which might be so under modern legal definitions but I'd be a little surprised if it was quite so in the proverbial Golden Age of Piracy. Then again it might that particular. I don't know all the relative legal history and precedent.

[irenicObserver]

Quick! Does anyone know what Ope is the sound for?

[Soras Teva Gee]

Ope for Operate obviously given the context.

[irenicObserver]

Yeah, realized that right after I posted *facepalm*

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Did Trafalgar mind-switch the four members of the crew? That's just crazy.

[irenicObserver]

By switching their hearts it seems.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Hey Sanji is apparently in Nami's body... after two years of continously fighting it off he's finally a woman. Damn Law is good.

So Ope-Ope or Horu-Horu which is more utterly terrifying?

[Suichimo]

Ope-Ope definitely. Ivankov's hormone stuff is cool and all, but it'll mean crap once you're mind switched with a gopher.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Hey Sanji is apparently in Nami's body... after two years of continously fighting it off he's finally a woman. Damn Law is good.

He might actually enjoy being Nami though.

[Kato]

He might actually enjoy being Nami though.

Heck, I know I would...

But yeah, interesting chapter overall, I guess... but I recall Zoro going ice diving back in Drum and he didn't mind it then... Did Zoro actually get weaker?

Brooka arrived just in time... heart swapped Strawhats will definitely be interesting... and I'm curious if we get to see Tashigi in action.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I am pretty sure the lake is much colder than in Drum Island, after all it was partly created by Aokoji's powers. And that is without taking into account the sharks and having to lug his captain around.

[Suichimo]

I don't think we'll get to see Tashigi in action much. Law has already split her into two pieces. The only person currently there that can even fight Law is Smoker, simply because he can freely put his body back together being a Logia and all. Luffy should be able to fight him as A)He has Gear Second and his Jet attacks should be faster than anything Law can put out and B)Haki is apparently a defense against Law's power, going by what Smoker said, and we already know he has ridiculous Haki.

Maybe this fight will show who else gained the ability to use Haki. Zoro and Sanji seem to be definites to me, probably Color or Armament. Ussop has to be a candidate for Color or Conqueror's. Its not like they've needed it until now and Luffy has been just showing off, except for destroying Noah.

[lord_khaine]

Well, excellent chapter this week, and i liked that Brook were allowed a chance to shine for once.

That aside, i dont think we will get any other confirmed users of Haki besides Tashi.

[Hiro Protagonest]

That aside, i dont think we will get any other confirmed users of Haki besides Tashi.

Well, Hawk-Eyes probably taught Zoro something similar to haki.

And I think Smoker can use it.

[DiscipleofBob]

Well, Hawk-Eyes probably taught Zoro something similar to haki.

And I think Smoker can use it.

It's been stated that all Vice-Admirals can use haki to some degree, and Smoker is a Vice-Admiral now, so it's at least implied.

[lord_khaine]

Well, Hawk-Eyes probably taught Zoro something similar to haki.

And I think Smoker can use it.

I were refering to this chapter, i do find it likely that both Zorro and Sanji posses some sort of Haki, i just dont think we will see it now.

[Xondoure]

Hasn't Zorro been using haki just without a name more or less since he's been able to cut metal?

[Soras Teva Gee]

I can't find mention of any real technical explanation for the various martial arts out there. Haki seems the obvious speculation, but Silver's big explanation of Haki very much does not touch on the range of weird techs we've seen. Which we could take as a sign that its still distinct from what Zoro and Sanji do. While I won't object if it happens to be Haki, I think we've a good case for their being weird superhuman abilities besides Haki and Devil Fruit

Do we have any of the showy martial arts being used to effect against a Logia user.

Though backtracking to what brought this up... Law should be proof against the strongest Strawhats from type advantage. The logical counter for his abilities is to say outside the operating room and attack at range. Something neither Luffy, Zoro, or Sanji are quite built for. That said a major antagonist taken out by a secondary combatant for the Strawhats, yeah this is shonen it ain't gonna happen.

So either Smoker takes down Law (maybe not this fight) or I think either Haki or Gomu-gomu is going to render Luffy immune to being operated on. There's a hint of this in Smoker talking about Tashigi's Haki level. I'd say that being a rubber man would be total hax though since a surgeon slices you open when he operates. So looking like Haki only need apply.

[Xondoure]

Still not convinced Law is a bad guy, but I suppose we will see.

If he is, what's wrong with giving Usopp a chance to shine? Would be awesome...