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    Default Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    I've had an idea running around in my head for some time now for a world where dragons long ago decided it's better to work together, not only with each-other but with the "Lesser" races as well. You still have Good Dragons vs Evil Dragons but dragons are far more prevelant so instead of vying for control over large areas, dragons work together to rule cities and nations.

    Obviously with so many Dragons about, the other draconic races are also far more prevelant.

    Ideas I've already had.
    --In the Capitol City (Needs a name) there are 12 Major Dragon Families who rule over the city.

    --The Castle is surrounded by a wall with 4 gates, one each facing each of the cardinal directions. From these gates the four main roads spiral outward till they reach the outer wall of the city where they go through another set of gates that also correspond to the four cardinal directions. There are also 4 other gates in the outer wall at the Ordinal directions that feed onto four more large road that spiral in the opposite direction as the main roads helping to form a kind of spiral-grid layout of the city. With this layout there are no direct lines from the outer wall to the castle at the heart of the city for an invading force to march down. This brings the total of city gates to 12.

    --Each of the 12 Families is in charge of one of the gates. This means that there is not just one flight of dragons protecting the city in times of war but at least 12.

    --Each Family has one member, usually the Eldest, who serves on the Council of Elders that presides over the entire city.



    I have other ideas on the setting but for now I'm just going to see if anyone is interested in helping me flesh this out to an entire setting beyond just the main city. Please feel free to ask questions if anything I've just written doesn't make sense.
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Is the draconic prevalence going to cause their cult-following of Kobolds to be more prominent?

    If so, do you want them to be more... Well, diverse?

    I'm always interested in dragons, and depending on culture and stuff I'd be more than willing to help ^^

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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    An interesting question....to me Kobolds represent a primitive "Worship-because-of-fear-and-awe" side of dragons which you won't find, at least not very much, in the cities. That's not to say that some of the more isolated areas might not have a few Dragons with a following of Kobolds.

    Without the source books in front of me to verify, I can't be sure but, I seem to recall that not all dragons are able to assume humanoid form as one of their spell-like abilities.....In this setting all dragons have that ability and most of them spend the majority of their time in a chosen humanoid form to better accommodate the high level of contact they all have with the humanoid races.

    Since there are so many dragons, there are also a high number of Half-dragons and Dragon-descended. Where as in most world one might be greeted with "Hello! How are you? Where are you form?" in this campaign you're as likely or perhaps even more likely to hear "Hello! How are you? What is your Dragon-name?" The last question is inquiring about which Dragon Family you are associated with since almost everyone is either related to a family of dragons or claims allegiance to one.

    I've actually considered taking out humans, at least as they are RAW, since they are such a short lived race compaired to the rest of the inhabitants of this world. I've thought about replacing them with their longer lived cousins from LOTR the Dunadine (sp?).
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Are each of the 12 families a different type of dragon?

    Core you only have 10 types of true dragons (also if you want to know only the LG ones have Alternate Form normally, but I usually just give it to others for free, or use the Dragonlance feat that does it) so if you do decide to have each of the families be a different type of dragon you'll have to branch out beyond the core 10, at which point another question would be are all 10 of the core true dragons represented amongst the families?

    If you do not have each family be a different type of dragon, which types would be doubled up on?

    What types I'd use if going for 12 different ones:
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    Greyhawk, or Steel, Dragon (Dragon Magazine); LN
    Purple Dragon (Dragon Magazine Compendium) LE
    Gold Dragon (MM) LG
    Silver Dragon (MM) LG
    Blue Dragon (MM) LE
    Iron Dragon (Dragon Magazine) LN
    Emerald Dragon (MMII) LN
    Song Dragon (Monsters of Faerun) CG?
    Red Dragon (MM) CE
    Deep Dragon (Monsters of Faerun) NE?
    Bronze Dragon (MM) LG
    Tome Dragon (Dragon Magazine) LN?
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Another good question. I was thinking of trying to keep this city non-evil....that's not to say another city isn't run by "evil" dragons. However I do want the families to come from as many different types of dragons as possible but I'm perfectly willing to have more then one of say gold or silver....so if we cut out the evil ones from your list we're left with.

    Greyhawk/Steel Dragon (I like their 2.0 description as wandering sages)
    Gold Dragon
    Silver Dragon
    Iron Dragon
    Emerald Dragon
    Song Dragon
    Bronze Dragon
    and Tome Dragon

    Without my source books in front of me (they're in storage right now because i'm in the middle of a long drawn out move) I can't think of what other types might be appropriate.


    Also with such a large influence of dragons I envision that the Draconic Pantheon is the official set of gods worshiped in the setting with the dragons being revered by some as living extensions of those gods.
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Well I had tried to divide it evenly between non-planar dragons of each moral alignment (with an emphasis on Law over Chaos).

    You could also throw in Amethyst (TN), Tungsten Dragon (LG, Dragon Magazine 356), Sapphire (LN), and either Brass or Copper (CG).

    This is still avoiding the planar dragons, epic dragons, and lung dragons.
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    I like it. That rounds out the list with some Neutrals including a TN and gives us 2 that are CG for a little flavor. It also gives us 4 LG dragons which I think will work nicely as the ones in charge of the inner circle around the Castle while the other 8 maintain the outer defenses of the city.

    Now we need to flesh out each of the different families and give them specific roles within the city. Yes they are in charge of defending the gates and sending their eldest to serve on the council, but what other functions do they fill? Also which of the "lesser" races is/are most closely associated with each family?
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Bronze Dragon: general, commander of the armies. Associated with dwarves. (Bronze dragons like war according to the MM).

    Tome Dragon: Keeper of knowledge, leader of arcane research. I'd say Spellscales, but I think they're usually Chaotic.

    Song Dragon: Entertainment, also keeper of stories/oral history. Gnomes?

    Silver Dragon: I'd say major act in politics and the town's bureaucracy.

    Gold Dragon: High priest of Bahamut. Dragonborn.

    Sapphire or Emerald: The courts.

    Those are off the top of my head, I'd have to actually read the fluff on most of them again for more.
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Steel Dragon: Where Tome Dragons are the keepers of Arcane Knowledge these are the Keepers of history. Mostly associated with the Humans (Still not sure if I want to keep them RAW or make them a longer lived race)

    Copper Dragon: Legendary Bards, they maintain a bardic college and are often seen with Halflings

    Iron Dragon: The solders for the Bronze Dragons Generals



    If we are making the different dragon families the heads of all these different functions then by extension their elders act as the Councilor Of _____ for their respective rolls, for example the Bronze Elder would be the Councilor of War.
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Variant races from Dragon Magic are asking after you =P

    On a less whimsicial note, how much research have you done into the (LE) Kobold culture?

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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Quote Originally Posted by DythTheKobold View Post
    On a less whimsicial note, how much research have you done into the (LE) Kobold culture?
    Up to this point the only thought they have been given by me for this setting is that they exist somewhere beyond the borders of "civilized" society..... At least within the borders of this nation.
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    How about people that hates dragons because if there is a government there are always malcontents
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Feel free to come up with a group or NPC to fit that roll.
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Hold on what is the tech level in this world?because i want humans to be hi tech nomads
    Last edited by The_Admiral; 2010-09-09 at 12:23 AM.
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    With all the Dragons and Draconic creatures roaming around, it will be a relatively High Magic setting. I'd say we should keep the technology pre-gunpowder. That does not necessarily preclude things that came after gun-powder in Earth's time-line of discovery, I'm always a fan of anacronism. As long as we don't start including things that could potentially make one race or worse a handful of people game-breakingly advanced compared to everyone else.......... Tell me more about these wandering humans.
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Continuing with dragon roles.

    Tungsten Dragon: Better for the courts than Emerald or Sapphire (Good alignment, willingness to bring down evil as long as it is within the Laws and no innocents are harmed). So Councilor of Justice.

    Emerald Dragon: Fluff says they're sages, but steel dragons already take that one up so finances and economics. Councilor of Finance.

    Sapphire Dragon: Tacticians is what the MMII says so Councilor of Planning.

    Amethyst Dragon: Head of diplomacy/international affairs. Councilor of State.
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    One thing I can see for this game would be something along the lines of having say the Planar dragons more revered as 'Gods' above the lesser dragons of the world and possibly removing Bahumat and Tiamat since they are both overused alot. Like I mean Bahumat and Tiamat are really boring now.

    You could build stuff off of the main city having those 12 dragon races. Then having the evil main city have 12 evil dragon races and then each of the countries or kingdoms being divided into baronies and duchies controlled by the different types of dragons.

    You could then apply say 1 main Planar Dragon as say a 'Demi-god' or 'god' that is revered in a certain area.

    Gives a different flavour then the normal Dragon campaign setting.

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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Ok so lets name a few planar dragons and deify them.
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Uskgix: The god of decay and decadence. A rust dragon (Acheron).

    Asforthix: The god of valor and battle. A battle dragon (Ysgard).

    Tallix: The god of law, order, and justice. A ? dragon (Mechanus, Dragon Magazine material, can't quite remember the name, as I don't have the issue with me).

    Also do we want a planar dragon god for every outer plane? The Draconomicon and Dragon Magazine made ones for every Outer Plane except Baator and Arcadia.
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Also do we want a planar dragon god for every outer plane? The Draconomicon and Dragon Magazine made ones for every Outer Plane except Baator and Arcadia.
    I don't see why not. It might be cool to keep the "Official Dragon Pantheon" as an alternate though, perhaps with less of a following. Just a thought.....
    Last edited by Silverscale; 2010-09-09 at 08:01 PM.
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Well if you want ones for Baator and Arcadia I homebrewed some a while back. They have some setting specific stuff that would need to be filed away but they can be found by following the link in my sig.
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Hrmm, mind if I stick my foot in here, and talk about where I see one of my favorite races, Kobolds, fitting into this setting.
    Kobolds serve Dragons, they always have. Once, they were controlled by fear, a dragon demanded tribute, service, even worship from a group of kobolds, if it was not obeyed, it would destroy them.

    However, Kobolds are very clever. They would bow, and scrape, and serve, and grovel. But one day, the Dragon would let it's guard down, would take the loyalty of it's servants for granted ,and that day would be it's last. Sometimes they would swarm it as it slept, sometimes they would poison it's food, or betray it in favor of another dragon. Sometimes it's lair would cave in.

    A few centuries ago, the Dragons decided that was enough. The Twelve Families rounded up every kobold clan leader they could find and brought them to the capital.

    The Kobolds were ready, led by an influential leader named Yazlok, they delivered an ultimatum. No More would Kobolds serve dragons as slaves. They would serve dragons as employees.

    Some in the twelve familes called for slaughtering the kobolds until they resumed their proper placed, but cooler heads prevailed, and the twelve families agreed to listen to Yazlok's offer.

    Each Kobold Clan would serve the dragon of it's choice. Once the Clan entered into a dragons service, they would serve that dragon for one year, after which they would be free to remain for another year, or leave. The arrangement was simple, but it's repercussions were complex. Dragons found it to be in their best interests to woo Kobolds into their service, offer them good land to build their towns, gold, equipment, a percentage of and profits from businesses the clan ran on the dragon's behalf. Under this arrangement, Kobold clans were also motivated to make their service more desirable, so that dragons would offer more to have them in their service. Many Clans boast skilled craftsmen in their ranks, wise scholars, expert mages, or skilled merchants. Such a clan can be incredibly valuable to a dragon, who will go to great lengths to attract it's services.
    Some Clans seek a new master every year, some have served the same dragon for Generations.

    Most clans are small, around a hundred or so individuals, however, some are much larger. Kobolds are physically weak yes, but they are clever and quick witted, and some clans include non-kobold members. A group of Human or Hobgoblins may swear loyalty to a clan, serving as it's guards. Ogre Tribes sometimes find it beneficial to attach themselves to a Clan, letting the little lizards do the thinking for them. Clans also collect magic items, books of ancient knowledge, crystal balls, enchanted weapons, ect. These items and servants belong to the clan, and are at the disposal of the dragon the clan is serving. The most powerful dragons engage in massive bidding wars over these clans, and those that win can find an army at their service.



    Location: Yazlok's Mount.

    When Yazlok went before the twelve families, he already had an ally, a Tome Dragon named Vorsharen. Yazlok's clan has served Vorsharen since that day. After the arrangement was reached, Yazlok led his clan to a mountain, and they began turning it into something else. First, they dug a massive set of chambers into the mountain's peak, a roost and horde room for Vorsharen. Then, they set about turning the rest of the mountain into a university.

    The Clan of Yazlok (As they have become known), spends their time studying in vast libraries, honing their skills in the finest workshops, and learning from the greatest experts. They then pass on that knowledge to any who can afford their fees. Clans will send a promising young Kobold to the Mount with a cartful of tribute. Once their, he will ascend the mountain where he will meet Vorsharen and the Yazlok clan leaders. He will offer the tribute, demonstrate what skills he has, and beg admittance to the university. If accepted, he will learn his trade and return to his clan a master. If he is good enough, he may be apprenticed by one of the mount's professors, who will not only hone his skills further, but will make him that much more valuable to his clan. A mount-educated kobold is good, but one who was the apprentice of a famous professor is even better.

    If he is very good, he will serve his clan for years, and one day, a messenger from the clan of Yazlok will arrive, and offer the clan magical items and valuable treasures if the Kobold in question agrees to return to the Mount to teach.


    Kind of sloppy and stream-of-consciousness I know, but hey. I might try to write up some example Kobold clans later.
    Last edited by BRC; 2010-09-09 at 08:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    While I absolutely love your Kobold Clans BRC I don't want Kobolds to become the predominant race for the setting. While I like the idea that they have come to an understanding with their former masters, lets not forget that they are not the primary connections the dragons have to the world of "lesser" beings.

    Also I noticed that though we avoided making both Steel Dragons and emerald Dragons the sages of knowledge, we, mostly myself due to over-site, have made both of the chaotic aligned Dragons the keepers of Bardic Knowledge.....hmmm what to do?
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Perhaps one dragon family could become the maintainers of harmony with the natural world. Amethyst might work (TN) and then Copper can take over as diplomats.

    Edit: Or have Amethysts be of psionics and Copper be of diplomacy.
    Last edited by Zaydos; 2010-09-09 at 10:11 PM.
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverscale View Post
    While I absolutely love your Kobold Clans BRC I don't want Kobolds to become the predominant race for the setting. While I like the idea that they have come to an understanding with their former masters, lets not forget that they are not the primary connections the dragons have to the world of "lesser" beings.

    Also I noticed that though we avoided making both Steel Dragons and emerald Dragons the sages of knowledge, we, mostly myself due to over-site, have made both of the chaotic aligned Dragons the keepers of Bardic Knowledge.....hmmm what to do?
    With the exception of Kobold clans that have served a dragon for extended periods of time like the Yazloks, most Dragons probably won't use Kobolds as their representatives with other races. That's a position of considerable power, so the Dragons probably won't want to entrust it to somebody who might leave next year. A Clanless Kobold might serve as a dragon in such a capacity, but Clanless Kobolds are rare, and are usually considered untrustworthy, and they wouldn't have any advantage over other races.

    They would also be a long way from being the Dominant race. The vast majority of clans are transient, unless they're offered a very good deal, they tend to go off to find a new master after a few years. Though Dragons may have "Kobold Quarters" for whichever clan they have serving them at the time to live in, there are no real Kobold Cities. Also, while some clans can be very powerful, they remain subservient to whichever Dragon they're serving.

    Also, I imagine Kobolds as not being all that plentiful in this setting. Large clans are harder to provide for, and Dragons tend not to need clans for raw labor, most clans consist of a small number of skilled Kobolds, meaning the Clan gets to benefit more from whatever payment they recieve, rather than needing to spend it all to feed countless mouths.

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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Some Kobold Clans

    The Kraz-Natal Clan.
    Larger than normal, this clan is known for it's skilled architects and masons. Dragons seeking to launch some large construction project usually seek the services of the Kraz Natal, who will design and build whatever their masters require. Most members of the Kraz Natal are simple, if skilled, laborers, and their numbers are usually sufficient. However, for very large projects, or projects with accelerated deadlines, a Dragon will usually engage another Kobold clan, or recruit locals, to provide additional manpower.
    The Kraz-Natal have a group of four Stone Giants that accompany them. These Giants serve as guards and assist the clan with heavy lifting. The Kraz-Natal also possess a powerful magic item, an enchanted Pick, capable of casting Move Earth and Stone Shape.
    The Clan's symbol is a set of architects tools bisected by a hammer.

    The Shenor-Malish
    The Shenor-Malish's banner, an armored crow, is feared throughout the land. Not because the Shenor-Malish are cruel, but because their arrival is almost always a herald of war. The Shenor-Malish have constructed their entire clan around Warfare, but they are not an ordinary mercenary band. You do not recruit the Shenor-Malish for hired swords, you recruit them because of their expertise. While the Shenor-Malish do train for combat, they do not serve as basic footsoliders, but as officers.The Kobolds of the Shenor Malish are leaders, tacticians, scouts, medics, siege engineers, and the like. When recruited, they are usually put in charge of whatever forces the Dragon has available, if not, they are perfectly happy to train raw conscripts into proper fighting shape, then lead them into battle. In fact, sometimes the Shenor-Malish are not hired to fight a war at all, but to get a dragon's personal forces into proper fighting shape.

    While the Shenor-Malish are primarily officers, they do come with a fighting force. The Steel Crows, an elite and highly disciplined mercenary band recruited and maintained by the Clan itself. There are not enough Steel Crows to form an army by themselves, but they can turn the tide of a battle.



    Also: Clanless Kobolds

    Clanless Kobolds are rare, if a Kobold is separated from it's clan, or the clan is largely destroyed, they usually find another clan to take them in. Though some Kobolds do leave the clan and set out on their own, few people realize this. The assumption is that a Clanless Kobold has been cast out for some reason, as such any Kobold travelling alone is usually mistrusted.

    In actuality, Kobolds being exiled from a clan are fairly rare. Most clan's don't want to risk their reputations being hurt by letting word get out that one of their number did something worth exile. Most prefer to handle any criminals themselves, even if it means quietly disappearing the criminal in question, thus, most serious criminals will try to flee their clans. Each clan usually contains at least one member in charge of hunting down fugitives, but they are not above using bounty hunters to bring them in.

    When a Kobold is officially exiled, they are usually marked in some way, usually with a tattoo detailing their crime, however this usually only happens if making the criminal vanish would be more detrimental to the clan's image than letting them run free.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    Egg Guards. Dragon-riding knights. Dragonbonded humans. Heck, draconians. You can/should steal everything that was good about the Dragonlance campaign setting.
    D&D Remix for 3.x: balanced base classes and feats, all in the authentic flavor of the originals. Newest: shadowcaster. Most popular: monk and fighter.

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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    I have 1 word Steampunk
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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    @BRC: while I love your Kobold Clan ideas. Just remember that there are not just 12 Dragons in "Good Capitol" there are 12 Families of dragons each with at least 5 true dragons in them. It would probably be better if we went under the assumption that rather than serving one Dragon, clans are hired to serve the family as a whole, granted most of their orders would probably come from the Elder in each family, but they serve the interest of the family as a whole. Otherwise there would be something like 60+ Kobold Clans running around "Good Capitol" alone.

    @Zaydos:
    I like the idea of having Amethyst be the maintainers of Natural Harmony and Copper Being diplomats.

    @jiriiku: That sounds like a great idea but since I don't have any of the Dragonlance campaign books perhaps you could do some quick write-ups for us changing the fluff a bit to reflect the different setting....which needs a name by they way.

    @Captain_Obvious: Maybe not quit that advanced, they have computers and stuff, plus I don't want to step on Ishka's toes with this. However if you have something specific in mind I'm open to suggestions.
    Last edited by Silverscale; 2010-09-10 at 03:09 PM.
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    Go HERE for a look at the Ishka (CWBP) Wiki.

    Go HERE for a look at the Dragon-World (CWBP) Wiki.

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    Default Re: Commuinity World Building Project (World the Dragons Rule)

    More gods.

    Azalon: God of despair, hopelessness, and fear; gloom dragon (NE, Gray Wastes, from Dragon Magazine).

    Xythicle: God of madness, and insanity; howling dragon (CE, Pandemonium).

    Tallus: Goddess of righteousness, virtue, and heroes; radiant dragon (LG, Mount Celestia).

    The Shifter: God(dess) of chaos and trickery; chaos dragon (CN, Limbo).
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