[BitP:R] BleachitP: Reborn: OOC Thread 12

[Zerkai]

I've heard it said in fiction that light illusions/constructs/objects/holograms becoming solid is 'Hard Light'

[Frozen_Feet]

To turn normal light solid, you'd need gravitational force comparable or greater than a black hole, and such quantities of light that the thermal energy alone would evaporate all "normal" matter around.

Of course, it can all be handwaved as 'wacky reaper magic' etc., but it still doesn't sit right with me that light can create solid objects. Mainly because Reiji's powers would be fine without such an off-theme addition.

[Kuroimaken]

Light behaves as both a particle and a wave. Theoretically, at high enough concentrations, light could behave as more standard matter.

Or, he's manipulating the electromagnetic forces inherent in light to create a sort of "force field" effect, which acts like matter.


Anyways. Overall interesting. Two things.

First, I think any of his constructs more complicated than "blast of energy" or "wall of light" should start to rapidly break down after they exit his 100ft of influence. As well, they should be rendered motionless (barring something that was essentially "thrown"), as they are no longer controlled. Otherwise, he could create some "light golems", give them orders, and they can go march off somewhere to fight. Perhaps explain it that the energy necessary to help his constructs sustain any shape is high enough and concentrated enough that it just won't work for anything with more complexity than "wall", "blast", "blade", or the like.

Second, I am slightly concerned about the degree to which he can simulate regular telekinesis; this concern is, if I am honest, due to my control of a telekinetic. As it stands, I can't tell if he's able to act like a Green Lantern, wherein he sends out a vague "beam" of light and just grasps something in a "force field" and lifts it (thus making it visible light TK), or if he has to make some sort of large lever, humanoid construct, or the like to lift things.
If it's the former, I'd prefer if it took more the form of the latter.

Point the first: fine by me, it's what I was going for anyway. To make it a simple description, the more complex and the farther away from the radius, the more quickly it dissipates? Example, light golem takes maybe three steps out and poof, whereas bullet goes on for a while until it hits something or runs out of steam?

Point the second: no objections either.

To turn normal light solid, you'd need gravitational force comparable or greater than a black hole, and such quantities of light that the thermal energy alone would evaporate all "normal" matter around.

Of course, it can all be handwaved as 'wacky reaper magic' etc., but it still doesn't sit right with me that light can create solid objects. Mainly because Reiji's powers would be fine without such an off-theme addition.

Would it sit better with you if we compared it to the Green Lantern's power, but using ambient light as an energy source rather than a lantern?

[Frozen_Feet]

At that point, you could just go ahead and say he's a human who knows Kido, also known as wacky Reaper magic.

[Kuroimaken]

At that point, you could just go ahead and say he's a human who knows Kido, also known as wacky Reaper magic.

I don't really see the resemblance, actually...

So Green Lantern-alike it is.

[KnightDisciple]

Point the first: fine by me, it's what I was going for anyway. To make it a simple description, the more complex and the farther away from the radius, the more quickly it dissipates? Example, light golem takes maybe three steps out and poof, whereas bullet goes on for a while until it hits something or runs out of steam?

That sounds reasonable.

Point the second: no objections either.

Thank you. If Kaito had more than just the one trick, it likely wouldn't be quite as much of an issue.

[Kuroimaken]

That sounds reasonable.

Thank you. If Kaito had more than just the one trick, it likely wouldn't be quite as much of an issue.

You're welcome. I thought it would be discorteous of me to overlook that.

EDIT: Reiji is updated. If no one has any further OBJECTION!, I'll move him to the registry.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Hooray for people falling from the sky!

[Prime32]

[Furousha Shop]


"Nope, that oughta be about it... oh, are you fine with, say... 422 yen an hour?" Viatrix eyes Botsu.

((That's about $5 in USD. ))

That's an... oddly specific amount. Why not ¥420? You just entered $5 into a currency converter, didn't you?

[strawberryman]

I actually did the math, but.

The extra 2 yen is his bonus!

[Wahrheit]

So an arrancar/hollow concept has been bouncing around in my head... has anyone made a body surfer yet?

[KnightDisciple]

So an arrancar/hollow concept has been bouncing around in my head... has anyone made a body surfer yet?

Could you define the idea a bit more?

[Wahrheit]

Could you define the idea a bit more?

Through some strange circumstances that I'll develop as the idea does, the arrancar/hollow's (haven't decided which it'll be) body was destroyed but its mask left intact. It has minor powers of suggestion on its own, and can take over the body of someone wearing the mask. If I go with an arrancar, its Resurrection would restore its original body for a short time in exchange for killing its current host.

[InyutheBeatIs]

Through some strange circumstances that I'll develop as the idea does, the arrancar/hollow's (haven't decided which it'll be) body was destroyed but its mask left intact. It has minor powers of suggestion on its own, and can take over the body of someone wearing the mask. If I go with an arrancar, its Resurrection would restore its original body for a short time in exchange for killing its current host.

Personally, I think this idea sounds awesome, although I'm not an authority on this sort of thing. Although this does overlap with Pan, his player hasn't been on in quite a while. I think the arrancar is especially awesome.

[KnightDisciple]

Through some strange circumstances that I'll develop as the idea does, the arrancar/hollow's (haven't decided which it'll be) body was destroyed but its mask left intact. It has minor powers of suggestion on its own, and can take over the body of someone wearing the mask. If I go with an arrancar, its Resurrection would restore its original body for a short time in exchange for killing its current host.

Can the possession be fought off?

As well, if the host is killed, how much danger is he in, assuming he isn't in Resurrrecion?

How much danger would he be in Resurrrecion?

[Wahrheit]

Can the possession be fought off?

As well, if the host is killed, how much danger is he in, assuming he isn't in Resurrrecion?

How much danger would he be in Resurrrecion?

Someone of sufficient spiritual power could resist/fight off the possession for at least short periods. If the host is killed, he's not in terrible danger, but life sucks since he doesn't have a body any more. Resurrecion would be a risky move for him since it kills his host, but I figure lingering spiritual power could keep the body animated but non-combat-capable (kinda like a zombie) for several minutes. Long enough to get somewhere with easier access to new victims.

This has the side effect of him usually trying NOT to kill his opponent when he uses Ressurrecion, just disable/weaken them so he can take over their body next.

[Draken]

Sounds like one of Renee's brood more than it sounds like Pan.

Renee's broodlings are those spider-like critters made of hollow bone that latch to people's heads and fuse with them, subduing the original creature and forming their own (evil) persona based on the memories and personality of the host.

They don't have resurreccion proper but can cover the host in "drone" armor (looks like an alien xenomorph, but white), the drone form is stronger, faster, etc, etc, than the normal form (otherwise what would be the point of it?) but destroying the drone form kills the broodling without harming the host.

[Wahrheit]

So no major objections to the concept so far. Time to write it up and see wwhat you guys think of it then.

[Kuroimaken]

Speaking of Renee, let me know when I can run into the kids with Shotanaga.

[Draken]

You can do it any time you see fit to have him find them.

The ones who have not left yet, that is.

[KnightDisciple]

Someone of sufficient spiritual power could resist/fight off the possession for at least short periods. If the host is killed, he's not in terrible danger, but life sucks since he doesn't have a body any more. Resurrecion would be a risky move for him since it kills his host, but I figure lingering spiritual power could keep the body animated but non-combat-capable (kinda like a zombie) for several minutes. Long enough to get somewhere with easier access to new victims.

This has the side effect of him usually trying NOT to kill his opponent when he uses Ressurrecion, just disable/weaken them so he can take over their body next.

See, here's the problems I see.

1.)It sounds like he can't just get kicked out, even with fairly high power. Which means any PC infected by him is effectively dead. If it were less binary, people who weren't looking to kill their character might be willing to let him take over. As is, he's restricted to nameless NPCs, by and large, unless someone wants to kill one character or another off.

2.)It sounds like he's basically unkillable. Destroy his body? Oh well, he just goes on to possess someone else. Maybe it takes a bit of time, but he'll come back.

As written, not only does he seem very close to a ripoff of Renee's brood, but he seems functionally unkillable, and the "body-hopping" thing serves only to have him repeatedly killing nameless NPCs via taking over their bodies.

It's just....I dunno. Tastes a bit sour in my mouth, if you will.

[Wahrheit]

See, here's the problems I see.

1.)It sounds like he can't just get kicked out, even with fairly high power. Which means any PC infected by him is effectively dead. If it were less binary, people who weren't looking to kill their character might be willing to let him take over. As is, he's restricted to nameless NPCs, by and large, unless someone wants to kill one character or another off.

2.)It sounds like he's basically unkillable. Destroy his body? Oh well, he just goes on to possess someone else. Maybe it takes a bit of time, but he'll come back.

As written, not only does he seem very close to a ripoff of Renee's brood, but he seems functionally unkillable, and the "body-hopping" thing serves only to have him repeatedly killing nameless NPCs via taking over their bodies.

It's just....I dunno. Tastes a bit sour in my mouth, if you will.

Ah, valid points. I figure someone sufficiently strong/enough Heroic Willpower (tm) could actually expel him, especially if they have help from someone else. They don't even have to be that much stronger than him. I didn't intend for him to be a permanent infection; I was just trying to avoid having him get booted out almost immediately by anyone with a bit of spiritual pressure.

As for being nearly unkillable, he can die uncomfortably easily (at least for him) by destroying the mask when he's hostless (destroying it while he's in a host would restore them to control for the several days it would take for him to generate a new mask, and give them a very good chance to boot him out).

I'm mostly designing him as a stealthy/black-ops type character who tries to take care of his bodies instead of jumping around all willy-nilly because that's 1) a huge hassle and 2) makes him extremely vulnerable.

EDIT: It's probably also not very easy for him to imitate his host; any memory-reading would be a slow, hard process and give the host an improved chance of reasserting control.

[riccaru]

See, here's the problems I see.

1.)It sounds like he can't just get kicked out, even with fairly high power. Which means any PC infected by him is effectively dead. If it were less binary, people who weren't looking to kill their character might be willing to let him take over. As is, he's restricted to nameless NPCs, by and large, unless someone wants to kill one character or another off.

2.)It sounds like he's basically unkillable. Destroy his body? Oh well, he just goes on to possess someone else. Maybe it takes a bit of time, but he'll come back.

As written, not only does he seem very close to a ripoff of Renee's brood, but he seems functionally unkillable, and the "body-hopping" thing serves only to have him repeatedly killing nameless NPCs via taking over their bodies.

It's just....I dunno. Tastes a bit sour in my mouth, if you will.

1) This is an issue. If he can be removed somehow though I don't see why it wouldn't work.

2) It's been said time and again that killing eachother is not the main point of this game. As is Warheit seems to have a very very good plan on the killing. He would die like any other hollow. Being separated from his body wouldn't do more to him than a hollow losing an arm. Which has happened multiple times in both canon and in game. He's still a hollow, if you break the mask it dies.

3) We have NPC's aplenty. I think we should give him a little trust not to hop bodies all the time. We've already got more than one character who can take over bodies, what makes this one different?

As for the overlap, I believe Draken should have the final say on that. I feel there's enough of a difference to warrant a new character, and I look forward to seeing the character in action, if it happens.

[Draken]

I don't much care about the minor power overlap. Pan also has body snatching. Naraku (granted, mine) also has body snatching, any Mod-Soul character has body snatching.

Personality and plot potential are the real matter here. Broodlings are just a piece of Renee's powerset, as opposed to their own people, because a character taken over by a broodling is still (effectively) the exact same character, just evil and in the service of the royal family of Las Noches.

[KnightDisciple]

Ah, valid points. I figure someone sufficiently strong/enough Heroic Willpower (tm) could actually expel him, especially if they have help from someone else. They don't even have to be that much stronger than him. I didn't intend for him to be a permanent infection; I was just trying to avoid having him get booted out almost immediately by anyone with a bit of spiritual pressure.

Hm. I can see where you're coming from, I suppose.

As for being nearly unkillable, he can die uncomfortably easily (at least for him) by destroying the mask when he's hostless (destroying it while he's in a host would restore them to control for the several days it would take for him to generate a new mask, and give them a very good chance to boot him out).

Hm. So if he's not possessing somebody, just destroy the mask, he's gone.
If he is possessing someone, destroying the mask weakens him, but does not kill him.
So what happens if he's possessing someone, his mask is broken, and within a day they throw him out? Does he pass on? Does he manifest as a reduced-size mask?

I'm mostly designing him as a stealthy/black-ops type character who tries to take care of his bodies instead of jumping around all willy-nilly because that's 1) a huge hassle and 2) makes him extremely vulnerable.

He'd need to be able to hide his energy signature, his mask, and so forth to really be black-ops/stealthy. Just possessing people won't be enough.

EDIT: It's probably also not very easy for him to imitate his host; any memory-reading would be a slow, hard process and give the host an improved chance of reasserting control.

Also fair enough.

I should make it clear that I, personally, am not a big fan of characters whose focus is "possession". Mostly because I fear sticky binary situations, where no one can win. That, and the "mechanics" are always a bit wonky.

That said, if Draken has no other objections, and we get a couple more positive feedbacks (especially from other Central members), I'll step back on the overarching objection. If I'm the only one who strongly dislikes it, I don't want to limit you in that manner.

[Wahrheit]

Hm. I can see where you're coming from, I suppose.

Hm. So if he's not possessing somebody, just destroy the mask, he's gone.
If he is possessing someone, destroying the mask weakens him, but does not kill him.
So what happens if he's possessing someone, his mask is broken, and within a day they throw him out? Does he pass on? Does he manifest as a reduced-size mask?

He'd need to be able to hide his energy signature, his mask, and so forth to really be black-ops/stealthy. Just possessing people won't be enough.

Also fair enough.

I should make it clear that I, personally, am not a big fan of characters whose focus is "possession". Mostly because I fear sticky binary situations, where no one can win. That, and the "mechanics" are always a bit wonky.

That said, if Draken has no other objections, and we get a couple more positive feedbacks (especially from other Central members), I'll step back on the overarching objection. If I'm the only one who strongly dislikes it, I don't want to limit you in that manner.

I definitely understand your misgivings; I've GMed a few games and seen possession characters done very, very poorly.

If he's kicked out of someone when his mask is broken, he manifests as a damaged mask that slowly repairs itself over time. He'll have the ability to hide his energy signature and his mask, but can't conceal them when he's actively using Hollow powers. He also tries to actively avoid direct combat situations, since he's very aware of his vulnerability and can't pull out Resurreccion on a whim like most Arrancar can.

[Kasanip]

I think my worrying of such a character is always if to be used on another player's character.

[Wahrheit]

I wouldn't use him to infect another character without the player's express permission, and us having worked out what would happen.

[Frozen_Feet]

He's still a hollow, if you break the mask it dies.

Hollows don't die when their masks break. Well, in this case it would make sense for the Hollow to die, because he's only a mask, but ordinarily, a damaged mask is just a minor wound to a Hollow.

The whole "break mask, Hollow dies" thing was explicitly stated to be propaganda in canon, to make Shinigami always aim for the head, which happens to also be a fatal spot for all known creatures. Orihime's brother, Pesche and Dondonchakka, and the very existence of Natural Arrancars, show that the mask is not a vital part of a Hollow.

As such, Wahrheit, my objection towards your character is his classification as an Arrancar. Arrancars are characterized by removal of their masks - yours is exactly the opposite, nothing but a mask. It'd make more sense if he was an "ordinary" Hollow.

[Wahrheit]

Hollows don't die when their masks break. Well, in this case it would make sense for the Hollow to die, because he's only a mask, but ordinarily, a damaged mask is just a minor wound to a Hollow.

The whole "break mask, Hollow dies" thing was explicitly stated to be propaganda in canon, to make Shinigami always aim for the head, which happens to also be a fatal spot for all known creatures. Orihime's brother, Pesche and Dondonchakka, and the very existence of Natural Arrancars, show that the mask is not a vital part of a Hollow.

As such, Wahrheit, my objection towards your character is his classification as an Arrancar. Arrancars are characterized by removal of their masks - yours is exactly the opposite, nothing but a mask. It'd make more sense if he was an "ordinary" Hollow.

I ran into that snag, too... it was mostly because I had a cool idea for a Resureccion, but I suppose it could just be one of the abilities of a fairly-evolved Menos (killing his host for the power to return to his actual form for a short time). If Arrancar, I was thinking it could have been some sort of bizarre circumstance where the newly-formed Arrancar was killed during the splitting off of its mask, ending with its soul and powers sealed entirely in the mask it'd just removed, instead of its body as planned. Of course, I'll gladly bow to your wishes and make him just a particularly useful Hollow if you think that option is too outlandish.