Best ways to kill a Tier 1 caster without being one

[The Gilded Duke]

Neutral Human Expert

Skills: Bluff, Disguise, Hide, Move Silently, Use Magic Device, Use Psionic Device, Gather Information, Knowledge Planes, Spellcraft, Disguise

Dorje of Divert Teleportation, Wands of Magic Aura. Make sure to stay disguised and hidden when necessary. Keep all your magical gear aurafied to make it not show up as magical. You yourself have no aura from abilities or race.

Keep the Dorje in a Wand Sheath (or hide it in some other method if dm doesn't allow dorje's in wand sheaths) in say a quarterstaff.

Keep yourself disguised at all times. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/disguise.htm
Per the SRD if you don't draw attention to yourself observers don't even get a spot check. Even if they do get suspicious, it isn't difficult to out skillmonkey a wizard. The only way to notice your unusual gear should be if someone casts identify on you, a precaution which has not yet been mentioned.

Tail the wizard. Change disguise when necessary. You might lose them a few times, but with enough gather information and divination you should be able to find them again.

If he is never in a public location use hide move silently and darkstalker instead.

When you are ready pull out of line of sight, but still within 50 feet, cast Divert Teleport and wait for him to teleport away. If it would be useful have mercenaries / leadership minions attack at this time. Teleport him into one of the above mentioned traps.

The major flaw in this is vulnerability to detect thoughts, but you should be able to detect that with spellcraft, and you have a few rounds before he starts reading your surface thoughts. In that time you should be able to break line of sight or pull out of the area.

If you want to be even more sure, go seven levels of Spymaster to gain EX protections against Detect Alignment and Detect Thoughts, as well as a bonus on saves vs scrying.

[The Rabbler]

how has no one brought up aboleth mucus? all you need is a fighter with a few thousand gold and the trow anything feat.

1. obtain item of unseen servant.
2. give bag of 19 aboleth mucus' to the unseen servant.
3. ready action to throw second bag of 50 aboleth mucus' at wizard in the event of a contingency/celerity.
4. have unseen servant drop bag on top of wizard.
5. wizard either takes it or dimension door/abrupt jaunt/teleport.
6. throw second sack of aboleth mucus.
7. wizard eventually fails save.
8. ??????????
9. profit.

(If the wizard teleports miles away, I'd consider that a victory for the fighter.)

[olentu]

Zone of truth? By an npc caster? That has a will save of what, 13? I suppose the DrN could roll a one...

But anyways. Batman wizard has one disadvantage that I've noticed as this discussion goes on: No one person has a perfect solution to everything. Everyone has a lot of good tricks and strategies for the paranoid batman wizard, but I dont think anyone here can name every single one of them, or always be able to think of them in advance or on the spot when the need arises. Wizards are only as powerful as the players can make them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if the batman wizard were played by the playground, it would always win, but if played by any single person, there's room for error which a clever PC could exploit.

I also agree that these wizards can be defeated on a case-by-case basis, based on mitigating factors and circumstances. The wizard in my previous example was trying to fight a losing war against several good-aligned churches (read: clerics and paladins who didnt like his dealing with and use of fiends and evil dragons to wage war) and needed all the help he could get.

A better choice would have been discern lies on a person that has been completely stripped of all magic (checked by commune) followed by a confirmation of the results by commune. Then a mindrape and programmed amnesia to be really sure. Then more communes to be sure those worked. Some contact other planes for further checking. A few auguries would have not hurt.

Of course for the previously mentioned reason I would have mind controlled the monster myself (well I would have not bothered with it to begin with so the situation is meaningless) to avoid a 2 for one deal for my enemies so the situation would have never come up. And of course when summoning the monster I would have had enough protections in place that should it try to attack it would be dead before anyone else got a turn or if those failed I would be gone before getting in the field with proper contingencies (not necessarily the spell). But not caring about getting such a monster the situation would have not happened.


But then again should I have played the wizard so foolishly it would have been a deliberate choice on my part. And if a deliberate choice then it really doe snot apply to the situation at hand since I assume this is not a discussion about killing high level casters that act like fools.

[Jarrick]

A better choice would have been discern lies on a person that has been completely stripped of all magic (checked by commune) followed by a confirmation of the results by commune. Then a mindrape and programmed amnesia to be really sure. Then more communes to be sure those worked. Some contact other planes for further checking. A few auguries would have not hurt.

Of course for the previously mentioned reason I would have mind controlled the monster myself (well I would have not bothered with it to begin with so the situation is meaningless) to avoid a 2 for one deal for my enemies so the situation would have never come up. And of course when summoning the monster I would have had enough protections in place that should it try to attack it would be dead before anyone else got a turn or if those failed I would be gone before getting in the field with proper contingencies (not necessarily the spell). But not caring about getting such a monster the situation would have not happened.


But then again should I have played the wizard so foolishly it would have been a deliberate choice on my part. And if a deliberate choice then it really doe snot apply to the situation at hand since I assume this is not a discussion about killing high level casters that act like fools.

Easy big guy, just saying there's room for human error. And I think those commune spells just cost your character a level (or a mint to have them cast for him).

Plus your mind controlling magics stood a chance of failing, both from saves and from the creature's SR, and since all your spells are tied up in "contingencies" you cant cast it as many times as it takes like a DrN can, nor can you get the confirmation from an unconscious creature that the charm spell succeeded unlike the sudden appearance of a giant cyst gives. Besides that, even if it makes its save against the 7th level necrotic tumor spell, it is effected as if by a suggestion spell. I suppose the wizard could take that feat and get those spells too, but those spells are generally considered "Suboptimal" (or at least I've never seen them in a very positive light) so he probably wouldnt. Besides, exactly how do you react to "It opens its eye and looks at you, your magic doesnt work now"?

And as for not caring for getting such a monster, when your keep is surrounded on a daily basis by good clerics, some flying antimagic is a godsend. (pun not intended). He could run away, but then what? His keep is captured and his ambitions squashed. He has failed in his mission to rule the world, but I suppose he could keep trying from there with his hidden spellbook and what-have-you, but he's out of your hair for a while at least.

[olentu]

Easy big guy, just saying there's room for human error. And I think those commune spells just cost your character a level (or a mint to have them cast for him).

Plus your mind controlling magics stood a chance of failing, both from saves and from the creature's SR, and since all your spells are tied up in "contingencies" you cant cast it as many times as it takes like a DrN can, nor can you get the confirmation from an unconscious creature that the charm spell succeeded unlike the sudden appearance of a giant cyst gives. Besides that, even if it makes its save against the 7th level necrotic tumor spell, it is effected as if by a suggestion spell. I suppose the wizard could take that feat and get those spells too, but those spells are generally considered "Suboptimal" (or at least I've never seen them in a very positive light) so he probably wouldnt. Besides, exactly how do you react to "It opens its eye and looks at you, your magic doesnt work now"?

And as for not caring for getting such a monster, when your keep is surrounded on a daily basis by good clerics, some flying antimagic is a godsend. (pun not intended)

Well sure it is possible the wizard could be defeated and even if not the DM could err in playing someone smarter then anyone ever. But the thing I am responding to is that the counters presented are really simple and with a bit of forethought and preparation can be circumvented or would just not ever come up. If the proposed strategies were ones that I considered more robust I would not have such a problem with them but of the two I have responded to they both seem to have a stupid wizard doing really stupid things without any planning or consideration as to what might go wrong.

[dextercorvia]

Illumian DreadNecromancer1/Fighter20. Able Learner -- Spellcraft, Knowledge Arcane are easy enough now. Naenhoon Heighten + Extra Slot for nines. (Use the standard feats for this and metamagic). Arcane Disciple (or Extra Spell if its used that way in your campaign) to taste. Chaos Shuffle the Fighter Bonus Feats away @ Level 21 for Epic Spellcasting, and Improved Spell Capacity X times.

If you can't take out a nonepic T1 with Epic Spells, level 18 spells, and Epic WBL, then you should try to make nice instead.

[jseah]

The way I play wizards, and so do most of my group, is not unlike a special ops team.

Scout first, using divinations if necessary, and try not to let them know you're scouting. Detect magic/Arcane Sight permanent is always around.
When you're ready, you nova, fast and hard.

Spoiler

Show

A static defense cannot handle this. Overland flight, persistent G.Invisibility, Mindblank (countering see invis) makes almost everything not work. For those that still do, being on the Ethereal plane does the rest. Note, you can scout perfectly well from the Ethereal since you can "see" from the Ethereal into the Prime.
And of course, the initial strike is powerful. Summoned monsters (illusioned to look like you) creating a diversion, or open with an AoE nuke like Maw of Chaos/Disjunction (with quickened CC spells), or simply bypass completely via Ethereal/Teleport/Phase Door/Burrowing. The choice of strategy depends on your information.

One wizard/incantatrix/Iot7V can have ALL of that. At the same time. And still be immune to most mundane attacking methods. (mundane including shadowpouncing and meta-orbs of death)
- Note: one of my friends is playing that wiz/incant/Iot7V thing right now

I mean, unless you lock down the whole plane or something similarly ridiculous, the wizard has too much mobility to do much about him.
By planeshift, physical obstacles... are not.

Of course, this assumes that the wizard is a PC, played like a PC to it's full potential.

To be honest, the main philosophy when dealing with a wizard is to alpha strike the guy before he can react (IE- in a single surprise round, which, practically, only three thieves sneak attacking at once can do without recourse to other wizards).

That is of course, how it works. Disjunction + action nova works in almost all cases. While dodging him doing the same back to you.

I also wouldn't go so far as to say that the wizard is completely unassailable. A similar thread on BG I read before had a working build involving a barbarian with Insta-rage -> Imperious Command for an instant stunlock before initiative.

You just need to out-nova him, either by going first or by having more actions than he has. Very hard to do without being a caster of some kind.
EDIT:
Level 30 anything will kill a level 20 wizard simply by just having epic feats and items. Epic is broken.

[Radar]

True, you do not know what the wizard has prepared. But they also do not know what you have prepared. Therefore, if you use a strategy that "works unless they use this one spell", you have a legitimate chance of winning. Now, if you will only except an absolute guaranteed win, then it is impossible no matter what tier each character is: a commoner still has a chance to beat a wizard if the wizard rolls a natural 1 on every roll and the commoner rolls a natural 20 every time:|

Actually most encounters can be solved with generally useful spells. Spells like Teleport, Dimension Door, Invisibility (or Greater), Nerveskitter, Celerity are good to have on any given day - possibly more then one casting of each even.

The whole rogue ambush falls apart, if the wizard decides to for example use the Tinfoil Hat trick, which is again useful in many dangerous situations and doesn't require elaborate preparations.

There are also spells, that are practically "You lose, no save" - for example Forcecage (not likely to be prepared, but likely to be on a scroll at hand).

Also: forcing a wizard to escape is wining a battle, but it would most likely be a lost war, since he will probably prepare a scry and die retaliation.

A Warlock with Voracious Dispelling might actually have a shot at hurting the wizard, but it's hard to say, if it would be enough.

@dextercorvia
1. If you are bringing in epic spellcasting, then it's ICBM tag game.
2. If you are using that level of cheese, then it should be answered with equal ammounts of gouda on the other side and there is a lot more to achieve in 21 levels then just epic spellcasting. For example: you don't have to waste 20 levels on fighter, when for 3000 gp you can visit Otyugh Hole and get an extra feat.

[jseah]

I dug up the thread.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=3821.0

The links on the first post detail 2 or 3 different wizards with varying levels of cheese.

[dextercorvia]

@Radar -- No you don't need to waste levels on fighter, but you can. I chose Fighter because someone earlier in the thread said that a Fighter X levels higher than a Wiz should be able to take him out. This is the answer that I perceive to this question.

My point is that Epic Any Class vs. Non-Epic Wizard, the Epic guy has the chance to access Epic Spells, and once he has researched the Destroy This Particular Wizard With No Save No Matter Where He Is Spell, game is pretty much over. Fighter just gets there easier, because of his one class feature. One feat from the O-Hole can't compare with the 11 extra from fighter. Sure you could dip Swashbuckler/Marshal/PsyWar/FeatRogue etc. and get a feat every level, but I was aiming for the simple answer. Marshal is particularly nice, because you can have ninth level spells at 4th level, with him.

[Chipp Zanuff]

(If the wizard teleports miles away, I'd consider that a victory for the fighter.)

I don't, as the Wizard can still hit the Fighter.

[Radar]

@dextercorvia
Ok, I see the point. As for the Otyugh Hole, it goes like this:
1. Pay 3000 gp for entry, get Iron Will.
2. Chaos Shuffle Iron Will into whatever feat you want.
3. Go back to step 1. as many times as you want or have money for.

[137beth]

Actually most encounters can be solved with generally useful spells. Spells like Teleport, Dimension Door, Invisibility (or Greater), Nerveskitter, Celerity are good to have on any given day - possibly more then one casting of each even.

The whole rogue ambush falls apart, if the wizard decides to for example use the Tinfoil Hat trick, which is again useful in many dangerous situations and doesn't require elaborate preparations.

There are also spells, that are practically "You lose, no save" - for example Forcecage (not likely to be prepared, but likely to be on a scroll at hand).

Also: forcing a wizard to escape is wining a battle, but it would most likely be a lost war, since he will probably prepare a scry and die retaliation.

A Warlock with Voracious Dispelling might actually have a shot at hurting the wizard, but it's hard to say, if it would be enough.

@dextercorvia
1. If you are bringing in epic spellcasting, then it's ICBM tag game.
2. If you are using that level of cheese, then it should be answered with equal ammounts of gouda on the other side and there is a lot more to achieve in 21 levels then just epic spellcasting. For example: you don't have to waste 20 levels on fighter, when for 3000 gp you can visit Otyugh Hole and get an extra feat.

Forcage does not guarantee a win. The fighter may have a magic item that allows him to cast disintegrate. AND it requires initiative. The rogue sneak attack strategy was based on the assumption that the wizard isn't aware until he is struck, which does NOT give him a chance to use Tinfoil Hat, or anything else for that matter. It fails if the wizard decides to just randomly cast a divination spell to find the rogue, but he likely won't do that because he doesn't know the rogue is there. Again, any of these tactics COULD work, but NONE of them are guaranteed wins.

[Kyrthain]

If I was reading tinfoil hat correctly, the whole point is that it needs no action. The instant the AMF hits, his hat expands, covering him, and protecting him from LoE from the field.

[jseah]

^Striking before awareness:
Not happening if the wizard scouts everywhere he goes.
Especially if the area he's entering is prime ambush area. What character wouldn't be cautious when entering an area that potentially has hostiles?

More opened ended divinations also work. Like, when is the next time I will be attacked by force of arms without my initiation? Then at that time, he puts up all his buffs before it happens and squashes you flat with foresight+celerity=timestop.

[Jayabalard]

What moderately high level wizard actually eats, or at least eats beyond a heroes feast?

Most of the ones that aren't created as thought experiments do; generally people enjoy eating good food.

Sure, wizards in your games may all go without eating... but you can't assume that conditions in your game are prevalent elsewhere.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Forcage does not guarantee a win. The fighter may have a magic item that allows him to cast disintegrate. AND it requires initiative. The rogue sneak attack strategy was based on the assumption that the wizard isn't aware until he is struck, which does NOT give him a chance to use Tinfoil Hat, or anything else for that matter. It fails if the wizard decides to just randomly cast a divination spell to find the rogue, but he likely won't do that because he doesn't know the rogue is there. Again, any of these tactics COULD work, but NONE of them are guaranteed wins.

The spells nerveskitter (SpC) and foresight would like a word with your strategy. If I was a wizard with a ton of enemies, I would be stupid (and wizards, by definition, are NOT stupid) to not be using these spells while I go out to buy groceries. You aren't going to catch a wizard by surprise if these spells are in effect or sneak attack him even if you do manage to pump your initiative high enough.

EDIT: And a conjuration specialist is even more annoying with the abrupt jaunt ACF from the PHB II.

[Kami2awa]

Not sure if it would work, but Nightmare prevents you regaining spells.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nightmare.htm

Annoyingly it's stopped by Mind Blank, but maybe there's a way around that.

Any other method of stopping the wizard from resting would work.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Not sure if it would work, but Nightmare prevents you regaining spells.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nightmare.htm

Annoyingly it's stopped by Mind Blank, but maybe there's a way around that.

Any other method of stopping the wizard from resting would work.

Yeah, but is wizzy going to come out of his hidey-hole without his spells? And once he figures out what's going on, he'll take the necessary precautions (such as mind blank). Plus, what if wizzy is an elf? Not saying that all wizards are elves, but a fair few are.

It's not a bad tactic, especially if the wizard has to be somewhere the next day no matter what, it's just that you will have at most one shot at this.

[TheGeckoKing]

UMD a scroll of Teleport through Time, and facestab the Wizard while he's only a 5 year old. Wizard could TtT and faceobliterate you, provided he was notified of this, and when you were going (Hard, but possible)

UMD a scroll of Miracle/Wish and have the Wizard wiped from existance, no save. No sane god is gonna waste the chance to get rid of a Batman Wizard.

[137beth]

The spells nerveskitter (SpC) and foresight would like a word with your strategy. If I was a wizard with a ton of enemies, I would be stupid (and wizards, by definition, are NOT stupid) to not be using these spells while I go out to buy groceries. You aren't going to catch a wizard by surprise if these spells are in effect or sneak attack him even if you do manage to pump your initiative high enough.

EDIT: And a conjuration specialist is even more annoying with the abrupt jaunt ACF from the PHB II.

Foresight is a 9th level spell. At 17th level, that's one cast per day plus 1-2 extra from a high INT. That doesn't last the whole day, so I could simply wait to attack until afterwards. The same goes for all divination spells, unless you can continually cast them. And if your plan is to use low level divination spells constantly, that makes it easier to confuse with magic items. If you would explain your grand plan to keep divination warnings up 24/7 that are powerful enough not to be overcome with magic items that confuse divination, then I'll be impressed.

Putting the rogue strategy aside, why wouldn't it be possible with a sorcerer? Then you would be tier 2 and kill a tier 1.

[Emperor Tippy]

You flat out won't kill a properly built and well prepared level 20 wizard with anything less than a Tier 1 class. Even a collection of Tier 2's only stand the slimiest of chances.

Divine intervention might do it, but not under your own power.

The only thing more difficult to kill is a Save Game/Time Loop Psion.

AMF does nothing except suspend your Astral Projection body, and even that requires the wizards divination's to have failed and for the DM to have banned tin hats.

[Valameer]

A commoner 1 has a better shot than most.

Just play a long con. Become romantically involved. Learn all the secrets. Always be so innocuous as to never even warrant any mind-reading. Wait years for a moment of weakness. Then *bam!*

That's right. True ninja are always commoner 1.

[dextercorvia]

Foresight is a 9th level spell. At 17th level, that's one cast per day plus 1-2 extra from a high INT. That doesn't last the whole day, so I could simply wait to attack until afterwards. The same goes for all divination spells, unless you can continually cast them. And if your plan is to use low level divination spells constantly, that makes it easier to confuse with magic items. If you would explain your grand plan to keep divination warnings up 24/7 that are powerful enough not to be overcome with magic items that confuse divination, then I'll be impressed.

Putting the rogue strategy aside, why wouldn't it be possible with a sorcerer? Then you would be tier 2 and kill a tier 1.

If it's that important to your strategy, Foresight can be had as an eighth level spell from the Time domain. Also, Rod of Extend (greater) makes a difference. Whatever you do to maintain your buffs, a truly paranoid diviner type hides out when they aren't active. There is no waiting until afterwords. Your best chance there is a Dispel effect that he didn't think to cover with a contingency, such as one of the Warlock SLA's.

[jseah]

^Divine when himself is about to be next attacked, and thus be ready for it.
He thus knows when and approximately where he will be attacked. He doesn't know it's you since you have divination shielding items, but he can definitely know the time of attacks.

[Eldariel]

UMD a scroll of Teleport through Time, and facestab the Wizard while he's only a 5 year old. Wizard could TtT and faceobliterate you, provided he was notified of this, and when you were going (Hard, but possible)

UMD a scroll of Miracle/Wish and have the Wizard wiped from existance, no save. No sane god is gonna waste the chance to get rid of a Batman Wizard.

Due to the hilarity related to time travel, if you bring TtT to the game, time is actually no factor since the past is happened regardless of the present as long as it is in the past. And D&D really doesn't handle Time Travel well. In fact, there are no rules at all governing the types of solutions the world uses to deal with the common Time Travel-imposed issues.

[Ozymandias9]

A commoner 1 has a better shot than most.

Just play a long con. Become romantically involved. Learn all the secrets. Always be so innocuous as to never even warrant any mind-reading. Wait years for a moment of weakness. Then *bam!*

That's right. True ninja are always commoner 1.

That's the wonder of spymaster. You get that basic strategy, but divination and mind-reading back up the the cover, and you progress sneak attack and some other things.

From there it's a matter of being able to kill before the wizard can or knows to retaliate. As I mentioned earlier, Black Dog might be able to make enough attempts with out tipping off the wizard. Another option would be Bloodhound: if the Wizard is your mark, you should be able to deal enough strength damage from crippling strike to hit helpless (though it's worth noting that helpless, by strict RAW, doesn't actually preclude taking any action).

If you progress sneak attack far enough, you can toss in deafening strike and throat punch just to be sure.

All of this, however, fails to really account for what happens if the wizard has related contingencies. In particular, contingent Limited Wish replicating Restoration based on ability damage would put it right out.

But with sufficient time, a spymaster build should reasonably expect to know what most of the contingencies are and thus plan for them. A contingency to teleport on hitting a helpless state, for example, could be dealt with by using an item of quickened Dimensional Anchor used before the attack.

[Adumbration]

The principal issue is that caster's spell list tends to involve rather safe locations to sleep in like Magnificent Mansion or Rope Trick; places only accessible to those they want to allow enter. And when you have Magnificent Mansions, what do you need mundane homes for?

Also, Contingencies are still in effect even in their sleep.

I'm in a bit hurry, and I haven't read the whole thread yet... But there is a prestige class called Silver Key that gains the ability to enter such safe locations.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Foresight is a 9th level spell. At 17th level, that's one cast per day plus 1-2 extra from a high INT. That doesn't last the whole day, so I could simply wait to attack until afterwards. The same goes for all divination spells, unless you can continually cast them. And if your plan is to use low level divination spells constantly, that makes it easier to confuse with magic items. If you would explain your grand plan to keep divination warnings up 24/7 that are powerful enough not to be overcome with magic items that confuse divination, then I'll be impressed.

Putting the rogue strategy aside, why wouldn't it be possible with a sorcerer? Then you would be tier 2 and kill a tier 1.

My response is basically what these two said:

If it's that important to your strategy, Foresight can be had as an eighth level spell from the Time domain. Also, Rod of Extend (greater) makes a difference. Whatever you do to maintain your buffs, a truly paranoid diviner type hides out when they aren't active. There is no waiting until afterwords. Your best chance there is a Dispel effect that he didn't think to cover with a contingency, such as one of the Warlock SLA's.

^Divine when himself is about to be next attacked, and thus be ready for it.
He thus knows when and approximately where he will be attacked. He doesn't know it's you since you have divination shielding items, but he can definitely know the time of attacks.

Plus the fact that you want to use the spells when you leave the safety of your tower/fortress mountain/personal demiplane. A wizard with teleport doesn't need to spend a ton of travel time while he's running errands, and a three hour duration should be plenty of time to get most stuff done. Again, he won't prepare this every day or have it continuously active, but an intelligent wizard will be using it when he would otherwise be vulnerable.

[Raendyn]

well. this post is too long to read it all.I ask your forgiveness in advance in case someone already posted that.(it's not my build either)

strongheart halfling wizard1/cleric1/rogueXX ( take few prestige's that give at 1st lvl sneak dmg)

wizard, conjurer: trade familiar for abrunt jaunt,scribe scroll for inprooved initiative

Cleric : take Luck domain & patience domain ( ca't remember if there are any gods giving them both. if not start rule lawyering about PH witch clearly mention you are not obligated to worship a god, a "higher power" of luck & patience is enough for you to be a cleric & alsohave those domains

your strategy is to throw flasks. acid, alchemist fire, holy water... i know there is one for each type of dmg.

halfling gives you +2 to attack rolls for thrown & +1 AC & +1 feat

take TWF,or for more cheesy, take a scroll of grilions blessing (hey you can cast it your shelf) & multy weapon fighting, take whatever other feat you want,just don't forget craven!

1 item is important, ring of blinking, it allows you to strike as if you were invisible, but you aren't, they can see you! so true seeing won't deny you this benefit.
Adding that you make touch attacks.... you can never miss, you have 6 atacks at lvl 15. or with multy limb 10 maybe, not to mention if you take the 1lvl adj thri-kreen from MM2 = 6 hands....

the fact is that you can avade spells with 3 ways. you have 1 dice re-roll, you can delay the effects of any spell, you can make the wizard loose LoS with jaunt. you always hit,+16 dmg just from craven,

If the wizard for some reason has protection from energy.with quick draw you can w8 & see the effects of your flask, then quick draw a different one & so on until you find the one he has not been prepared for don't forget , you can not loose initiative with nerveskitter & sign, imp init & if possible flash & awe..

if the wizard has a way to stop your sneaking, take a scroll of spiritual weapon, it flanks! if he is constuct-golem strike, if he is undead-Grave strike.

consider the millions of option you can combine with your rogue, + items (hoho i only used 1 item) + prestige's . i dont think someone other than Iot7V can't stant a round against this guy.