The Limit Dragoon [PEACH]

[DracoDei]

In 3.0 there was a limit on both vertical and horizontal leaps defined as a multiple of your character's height (different multiplier for each). Monks got an ability that let them ignore that limit. In 3.5 they removed the limit for everyone.

[imp_fireball]

The way it works seems fine to me, and has been playtested in one of my older games

So it was playtested once... once is okay, but it isn't enough for something that you might want to use again and again.

Y'know, I'm sure animana won't mind if you changed his system. It's not like you're slapping him in the face because of it (and you still gave credit to him, did you?).

[strawberryman]

Something occurs to me. What happens if your dragon companion dies?

[Morph Bark]

So it was playtested once... once is okay, but it isn't enough for something that you might want to use again and again.

Y'know, I'm sure animana won't mind if you changed his system. It's not like you're slapping him in the face because of it (and you still gave credit to him, did you?).

Perhaps. I know of at least one other person who playtested it, but she didn't give me feedback on how it went.

I'll see if some changes might have to be made.

Something occurs to me. What happens if your dragon companion dies?

The idea is that you could get one back the same way a Druid can regain their animal companion - hence also the similar name.

[DracoDei]

The idea is that you could get one back the same way a Druid can regain their animal companion - hence also the similar name.

Saying that more explicitly might be good then.

[Nidogg]

Well leveling up beats 8 uses of the limit break and 160 kills... Seriously an awesome class, ill use it.

[Animana]

I'm perfectly fine with you using my Limit Break system. And, seriously, feel free to mess with it all you want. It's by no means definitive. Just for the record, there was a fair-sized group that did quite a bit of playtesting with it and it turned out to be more or less fair, with the exception of the Limit Mage, but I'll not go into that.

I'm actually really excited to hear that there's still interest in my classes. I honestly never expected it.

I've read through the thread and I like it. I'd like to contribute a few feats and/or limit breaks for the class once I get some time if it's alright with M-Bark.

[Morph Bark]

I'm perfectly fine with you using my Limit Break system. And, seriously, feel free to mess with it all you want. It's by no means definitive. Just for the record, there was a fair-sized group that did quite a bit of playtesting with it and it turned out to be more or less fair, with the exception of the Limit Mage, but I'll not go into that.

I'm actually really excited to hear that there's still interest in my classes. I honestly never expected it.

I've read through the thread and I like it. I'd like to contribute a few feats and/or limit breaks for the class once I get some time if it's alright with M-Bark.

Thanks for posting here. Appreciate it a lot. And I'd prolly have taken a long time checking my PMs on the WotC forums...

My group had playtested some of the Limit classes and the only problem they had with them was that the Sniper and Knight had to craft their own weapons, the limit system seemed pretty fair, yeah. Although we didn't play with casters in that campaign... but those tend to be far stronger anyway.

If you wish to contriubute feats or limit breaks, I'm perfectly fine with it. Go ahead!

[Animana]

These are just some things I came up with rather quickly during my lunch. Feel free to rip them to shreds if there's something off balance about them that I overlooked.

NEW LIMIT BREAKS
Level 2 Limits
Ancient Circle:
Yourself and all allies within 30 feet gain DR5 against any attacks from enemies with the Dragon type for the remainder of the encounter.

Dragon Killer:
You gain an untyped bonus to damage equal to your WIS modifier against enemies with the Dragon type for the remainder of the battle.

Level 3 Limits
Improved Ancient Circle:
As Ancient Circle, but the DR increases to 10.

Level 5 Limits
Dragon Lord:
You become immune to any breath attacks made by enemies with the Dragon type for the remainder of this encounter.


NEW FEATS
ALLEY-OOP!
Prerequisites: Lancet class feature, DEX 13
You teammates know you well enough to know when they may need to provide an extra boost in height.
Benefit: If you are below a friendly target and you make a jump check to reach their height, they may use a standard action to allow you to make an additional jump check from their height to continue moving upward.
Special: For someone to assist you with this, you must have used Lancet in at least 5 encounters with them.

BOUNCING OFF THE WALLS
Prerequisite: Lancet class feature, New Gravity limit break
When making grand leaps in confined spaces, you use your momentum and the walls to your advantage.
Benefit: When you have the New Gravity limit break active, if you make a Lancet attack, the bonus increases by one die type when leaping from a wall or ceiling (+1d8 instead of +1d6). If the ceiling is more than 30 feet above your target, increase the die type by two.

[Morph Bark]

Level 2 Limits
Ancient Circle:
Yourself and all allies within 30 feet gain DR5 against any attacks from enemies with the Dragon type for the remainder of the encounter.

Dragon Killer:
You gain an untyped bonus to damage equal to your WIS modifier against enemies with the Dragon type for the remainder of the battle.

Level 3 Limits
Improved Ancient Circle:
As Ancient Circle, but the DR increases to 10.

Level 5 Limits
Dragon Lord:
You become immune to any breath attacks made by enemies with the Dragon type for the remainder of this encounter.

Ancient Circle is perfect and fitting. I'll put Improved Ancient Circle at level 4 though.

Dragon Killer also sounds like it'd work for a Limit Monk.

Dragon Lord is flavourful and works, but let's have it affect all breath weapons, not just dragons'... or enemies' for that matter.

NEW FEATS
ALLEY-OOP!
Prerequisites: Lancet class feature, DEX 13
Your teammates know you well enough to know when they may need to provide an extra boost in height.
Benefit: If you are below a friendly target and you make a jump check to reach their height, they may use a standard action to allow you to make an additional jump check from their height to continue moving upward.
Special: For someone to assist you with this, you must have used Lancet in at least 5 encounters with them.

Cloud as a Limit Dragoon 1/Limit Knight X? I like that thought!

BOUNCING OFF THE WALLS
Prerequisite: Lancet class feature, New Gravity limit break
When making grand leaps in confined spaces, you use your momentum and the walls to your advantage.
Benefit: When you have the New Gravity limit break active, if you make a Lancet attack, the bonus increases by one die type when leaping from a wall or ceiling (+1d8 instead of +1d6). If the ceiling is more than 30 feet above your target, increase the die type by two.

Fitting and appropriate. Adding that!

I think I'll also add feats with that increases max Lancet damage or allows it to do other things, á la Sneak Attack feats.

[The-Mage-King]

I'm actually really excited to hear that there's still interest in my classes. I honestly never expected it.

Yeah, well, you made good classes with an interesting system of abilities.

Maybe you should repost the lot of them, and the Keyblade Master as well...

Not like anyone already was planning to start up Project Kingdom Hearts Homebrew...

*Whistles innocently*

[Fable Wright]

I really like this class, and the limit break system, but I have one question: When you use your lancet class feature, and jump, say, 40ft in the air. Do you take the normal 8d6 points of falling damage from it?

[firemagehao]

After 10th level, Safe landing should take care of the damage, and taking damage only helps your limit gauge.

[Morph Bark]

I really like this class, and the limit break system, but I have one question: When you use your lancet class feature, and jump, say, 40ft in the air. Do you take the normal 8d6 points of falling damage from it?

After 10th level, Safe landing should take care of the damage, and taking damage only helps your limit gauge.

The idea was that when using Lancet you don't take falling damage - basically Jump starts functioning differently when using it, kind-of. (And you only take 1d6 per 10 feet fallen, not per 5.)

I'll edit that in to make it all clear. I wonder though... should I also allow them to take the damage from the fall if they choose to take it?


I also added four new feats: All the Way Through, Distant Lancet, Knock Out the Magic and Made Holey.

[DracoDei]

Well, I CERTAINLY wouldn't allow any sort of self-inflicted damage to count for the gauge. I suppose that allowing them to take damage if they want to for some obscure reason would be OK, but off-hand I can't think of any legitimate reasons for it to come up.

[Nidogg]

Could someone post a link to the original limit break classes? Also I would like to contribute a few feats/ breaks if I may...

[IcarusWings]

There's one in the OP

[Morph Bark]

Well, I CERTAINLY wouldn't allow any sort of self-inflicted damage to count for the gauge. I suppose that allowing them to take damage if they want to for some obscure reason would be OK, but off-hand I can't think of any legitimate reasons for it to come up.

Of course. Hm, I think I'll add that Lancet must have a creature as a target, else it won't work. Something about the Dragoon's mind being focused on their quarry allowing them to power their leg muscles like no tomorrow.

Could someone post a link to the original limit break classes? Also I would like to contribute a few feats/ breaks if I may...

There is, as IcarusWings said, one in the first post of the thread. However, it is an old thread and it is on the WotC forums in the 3.5 area, so not likely to be checked in weeks of time even. I suppose we could try to convince Animana to repost the Limit classes on GiantITP though, and you could then make those suggestions.

Or, y'know, you can just suggest them here.


...and if you meant you wanted to contribute feats/breaks for the Limit Dragoon then allow myself to derpfacepalm and tell you "go ahead!"

[DracoDei]

Of course. Hm, I think I'll add that Lancet must have a creature as a target, else it won't work. Something about the Dragoon's mind being focused on their quarry allowing them to power their leg muscles like no tomorrow.

That... seems to be solving the wrong problem to me. Just specify "damage from an ENEMY" and be done with it. Sure it is a bit tricky to word, but it isn't like that isn't a problem that has been solved many many times in the past (so look them up?).

And not being able to jump around out of combat just seems to remove a lot of the awesome from this class.

[Nidogg]

NEW LIMIT BREAK lvl5
Hammer it in
Make a jump ckeck to deal lancet damge. Thendo another jump check. If that jump check exceeds the first jump check-7 then you do it again. Keep making these checks untill you fail or a natural 20. On a 20 you deal critical damage and stun your oponent for a number of rounds equal to the nuber of attacks befor the natural 20 occured.

Also what happens to dragoons on planes where gravity is subjectional?

[The-Mage-King]

I suppose we could try to convince Animana to repost the Limit classes on GiantITP though, and you could then make those suggestions.

I nominate this suggestion! We convince Animana to repost the Limit classes and the Keyblade Wielder class over here!

All in favor?

[IcarusWings]

I nominate this suggestion! We convince Animana to repost the Limit classes and the Keyblade Wielder class over here!

All in favor?

AAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEE!!!!!

[Fable Wright]

New Limit Breaks
Level 3 Limit Breaks
Defy the Earth:
For 1 round/level, you gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed. Additionally, when you use your lancet ability, you get a bonus on your jump check equal to your base land speed.

Level 4 Limit Breaks
Dimensional Step:
As an immediate action, you may use Dimension Door, as the spell, on your self. If you end up adjacent to an opponent when you use this ability, you may make an attack as a swift action against that opponent.

Level 6 Limit Breaks:
Dimensional Flurry:
For 1 round/level, you gain a reserve of 100 movement points. As a free action that can be performed even when it's not your turn, you may expend 5 points or more of this speed to move an equal number of feet. For example, if you expend 40 movement points to teleport 40ft. When using this ability, if you teleport yourself adjacent to an opponent, you may immediately take 1 attack as a free action. You may attack any opponent no more than once with this ability (Although you can still target an opponent with your normal attack actions). Your movement point reserve returns to 100 at the start of each of your turns for the duration of this ability.

[Animana]

To all of those that are worried about your Limit Gauge filling too quickly from falls and such, I did put this in the Limit Gauge description: You only count damage taken in battle towards your Limit Gauge, not damage from other sources. Therefore, you don't add damage taken from a fall or bashing your head into a wall.

I suppose I could have worded it better. Perhaps change it to, You only count damage taken in battle from hostile enemies. Any damage received from non-hostile enemies, such as traps, friendly fire, or falling damage, do not count towards your limit break.

I'll probably post my classes here within the next couple of weeks, maybe update them a bit, too.

[The-Mage-King]

I'll probably post my classes here within the next couple of weeks, maybe update them a bit, too.

YES!

Our request has been answered!

[Morph Bark]

That... seems to be solving the wrong problem to me. Just specify "damage from an ENEMY" and be done with it. Sure it is a bit tricky to word, but it isn't like that isn't a problem that has been solved many many times in the past (so look them up?).

And not being able to jump around out of combat just seems to remove a lot of the awesome from this class.

To all of those that are worried about your Limit Gauge filling too quickly from falls and such, I did put this in the Limit Gauge description: You only count damage taken in battle towards your Limit Gauge, not damage from other sources. Therefore, you don't add damage taken from a fall or bashing your head into a wall.

I suppose I could have worded it better. Perhaps change it to, You only count damage taken in battle from hostile enemies. Any damage received from non-hostile enemies, such as traps, friendly fire, or falling damage, do not count towards your limit break.

Well there's an answer. The limit stuff I put for the Limit Dragoon back when I first made it was mostly copy-pasted from the Limit Knight anyway. I'll give it a look-over tomorrow after classes and see if the wording can be made clearer (and shorter, perhaps, considering it is pretty long now).

I'll probably post my classes here within the next couple of weeks, maybe update them a bit, too.

YES!

Our request has been answered!

Oh my!

NEW LIMIT BREAK lvl5
Hammer it in
Make a jump ckeck to deal lancet damge. Thendo another jump check. If that jump check exceeds the first jump check-7 then you do it again. Keep making these checks untill you fail or a natural 20. On a 20 you deal critical damage and stun your oponent for a number of rounds equal to the nuber of attacks befor the natural 20 occured.

Also what happens to dragoons on planes where gravity is subjectional?

Hmm... sounds like an idea. I'd tweak that though. Something like: "Make a Jump check for Lancet as normal and resolve Lancet as normal. Then make another Jump check. If this Jump check exceeds your previous check by 10, you perform Lancet again, but the maximum damage decreases by 1 die. Keep making these checks until you fail or roll a natural 20 for your Jump check. On a 20 you deal critical damage and stun your oponent for a number of rounds equal to the nuber of attacks befor the natural 20 occured."

And if gravity is subjectional, I'd say he could use Lancet in whichever way he wanted to. (So if you could change the direction as a free action, you could technically make a whole rollercoaster ride out of your Lancet leap...)

[Fable Wright]

So... any comments about mine?

[Morph Bark]

So... any comments about mine?

I'm sorry, I usually reply to others' posts through multi-quote and forgot to add your post.

New Limit Breaks
Level 3 Limit Breaks
Defy the Earth:
For 1 round/level, you gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed. Additionally, when you use your lancet ability, you get a bonus on your jump check equal to your base land speed.

Level 4 Limit Breaks
Dimensional Step:
As an immediate action, you may use Dimension Door, as the spell, on your self. If you end up adjacent to an opponent when you use this ability, you may make an attack as a swift action against that opponent.

Level 6 Limit Breaks:
Dimensional Flurry:
For 1 round/level, you gain a reserve of 100 movement points. As a free action that can be performed even when it's not your turn, you may expend 5 points or more of this speed to move an equal number of feet. For example, if you expend 40 movement points to teleport 40ft. When using this ability, if you teleport yourself adjacent to an opponent, you may immediately take 1 attack as a free action. You may attack any opponent no more than once with this ability (Although you can still target an opponent with your normal attack actions). Your movement point reserve returns to 100 at the start of each of your turns for the duration of this ability.

The first one is perfect, I'll add that one. Second one I like, though I'll rename it "dimension slip" since it just rolls off the tongue better to me. The Dimensional Flurry though... did you intend to have it enable you to make up to 20 attacks in one turn even when it is not your turn? Since you could basically teleport 5 feet every time you use it (as a free action) and then attack immediately (also as a free action), you could attack someone else every time. You might not be likely to come into a 20-creature encounter a lot from an out-of-game perspective, but still.

[Fable Wright]

The first one is perfect, I'll add that one. Second one I like, though I'll rename it "dimension slip" since it just rolls off the tongue better to me. The Dimensional Flurry though... did you intend to have it enable you to make up to 20 attacks in one turn even when it is not your turn? Since you could basically teleport 5 feet every time you use it (as a free action) and then attack immediately (also as a free action), you could attack someone else every time. You might not be likely to come into a 20-creature encounter a lot from an out-of-game perspective, but still.

Ah; that's where the actual mechanics come into play. If you were facing 20 creatures all lined up in a row, then yes, you get to attack 20 times. However, this was intended for a wide variety of uses. Perhaps change the wording that you can only make an attack on your turn with the ability; otherwise, it can be good for battlefield manipulation. For example, if you were facing 3 enemies, and there was 30ft between them, you could attack all of them and then move 10ft away from them, forcing them to make a move action and an attack rather than a full attack. I see (I think) what you're saying; here's my correction:

For 1 round/level, you gain a reserve of 100 movement points. As a free action that can be performed even when it's not your turn, you may expend 5 points or more of this speed to move an equal number of feet. For example, if you expend 40 movement points you may teleport 40ft. When using this ability, if you teleport yourself adjacent to an opponent, you may immediately take 1 attack as a free action. You may attack any opponent no more than once with this ability (Although you can still target an opponent with your normal attack actions). You may only take this attack if it is your turn. If you use this ability, you may not take a full attack action. Your movement point reserve returns to 100 at the start of each of your turns for the duration of this ability.
[additions in bold, removals struck out.]
Is that better? It's really intended for you to be able to attack opponents, and then distance yourself somewhat. You can move a total of 100ft a turn, but you need to use if wisely. You get one attack against each opponent, and you can distance yourself from them, but it isn't too broken, I think.

[strawberryman]

Something occurs to me.

What would you get if a Dashkin (shamelessplug) became a Limit Dragoon?