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    Default The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    Background- After the Everyman class ending in basic failure, I consulted another friend of mine who homebrews. After looking through other people's Jack-of-All-Trades homebrews, we came up with something: What if there was a class that could use class features as spells. And thus, this was born, enjoy!:

    The Polymath
    "I don't know everything. I just know how to do everything."
    - Kelden Witheran, Polymath


    Many people seek a path, traveling down it no matter where it goes, being mature and adhering to the path they've chosen. The Polymath differs than most on this, being an immature kid who races down all the paths he sees, and then runs off one path to find where another one is. Polymaths learn how everyone does what they do - whether it be Wildshaping, healing, or sneaking through the shadows, the Polymath has learned how to do it, and reduced it to an arcane formula, allowing him to draw upon the powers of many classes whenever he needs them.

    Races: As can be guessed of most versatile classes, humans make up the majority of Polymaths. Coming after them are half-elves and elves, who relish finding a new way to use magic. Then come the gnomes, eager to find out just how everything works. After them, any member of any race is equally likely to be a Polymath, excepting races that tend to have little intelligence.

    Alignment: Polymaths tend to be neutral on all axises, as they intend to learn abilities from all walks of life.

    Other classes: Classes that appreciate learning tend to get along with you. You generally get along with other arcane spellcasters as well. Bards and Factotums appreciate your versatality. However, classes that adhere to one path, such as paladins, clerics, and monks merely view you as a fickle person who does not have the mental strength to adhere to a righteous path. They can't say you're not useful, though.

    HD: d8
    Skills:Any 10, selected at 1st level
    Skill Points: 4 + Int mod (x4 at 1st level) skill points

    The Polymath
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Spellcasting, Jack of All Trades, Armored Mage|1|1

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    | |2|1|-

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    ||2|1|-|-

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    ||2|2|1|-|-

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    ||3|2|1|-|-|-

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    ||3|2|1|1|-|-|-

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    ||3|2|1|1|-|-|-

    8th|
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    ||4|3|2|1|1|-|-

    9th|
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    ||4|3|3|2|1|-|-

    10th|
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Duo Strike|4|3|3|2|1|1|-

    11th|
    +8
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    ||5|4|4|2|1|1|-

    12th|
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    ||5|4|4|3|2|1|1

    13th|
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    ||5|4|4|3|2|2|1

    14th|
    +10
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    ||5|4|4|3|3|2|1

    15th|
    +11
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    ||6|5|5|4|3|2|2

    16th|
    +12
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    ||6|5|5|4|3|3|2

    17th|
    +12
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    ||6|5|5|4|4|3|3

    18th|
    +13
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    ||6|5|5|5|4|4|3

    19th|
    +14
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    ||6|6|6|5|5|4|4

    20th|
    +15
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |Mirror, Duo Strike 2/day|7|6|6|5|5|4|4[/table]

    Class Features

    Weapon Proficiencies: Polymaths are proficient with all simple weapons, three martial weapons of their choice, one exotic weapon, and light armor.

    Techniques: Polymaths learn how to use class features by reducing them to an arcane formulae, called techniques. Techniques generally operate the same way as spells do, except for the rules noted here. Polymaths may use techniques spontaneously, like sorcerers cast spells. Techniques are used through technique slots, as listed on the table above.

    Polymaths essentially learn how to use class features as though they were spells. When treating a class feature as a spell, the following applies:

    • Class features learned as spells are known as Techniques
    • Techniques may only be taken from base classes.
    • The class feature is treated as a technique of 1/2 the level a normal member of the class would gain it, rounded up (ex. a Polymath learns Wildshape, which Druids learn at level 5. Since 1/2 of that would be 2 1/2, it is treated as a 3rd level spell)
    • There are two kinds of techniques: constant and usage
    • Constant techniques, when cast, grant the Polymath access to the class ability for a number of rounds equal to the Polymath's caster level. They may cast as many times as the Polymath likes, so long as the Polymath has a spell slot available to "cast it"
    • Usage class features are any class feature that has a limited number of uses.
    • For all purposes except duration for usage class features, the Polymath is treated as having a number of levels in that class equal to his caster level. Duration for such features is treated as though the Polymath had 1/2 his caster level in class levels for the class(Ex. An 8th level Polymath can use Wildshape as an 8th level class, but it only lasts 4 hours (1 hour per class level)
    • Any improvements to a class feature must be learned as a new technique, treating it as a class feature gained at the level it is improved at.
    • Polymaths cannot learn spellcasting, or other similar features, as spells. However, they may learn spells, mysteries, and other things, as spells (learning Astral Construct as a 1st level spell). However, Polymaths may only learn one such thing as a technique for each spell level (so only one 0 level technique like this, only one 1st level technique, etc)
    • Usage techniques cannot be used more times per day than a member of the original class's caster level would be able to use it (ex. An 8th level Polymath cannot cast Wildshape more than 2/day, as that is how many times an 8th level druid may use it)
    • If a technique requires an action to activate it as it was (like Eldritch blast), it would use that action. Otherwise, a standard action is needed to use the technique.
    • For techniques that have multiple aspects to them(such as Soul Binding, or Inspiration), the Polymath may only learn one aspect of that class feature as a technique. (ex. a Polymath cannot learn Soul Binding, but she can learn to bind a certain vestige, such as Tenebrous. Another example would be learning the Inspiration class feature. The Polymath cannot learn the class feature as a whole, but instead may learn the Cunning Insight aspect of it.)
    • 0-level techniques (called tricks) simply grant access to any 1st level class features for 1 round.


    Polymaths generally know how to cast one technique per technique slot, learning 1 technique every time she gains a slot.

    Armored Mage: A Polymath does not suffer from arcane spell failure chance when wearing light armor

    Jack of All Trades: At 1st level, the Polymath gains the Jack of All Trades feat as a bonus feat

    Duo Strike: At 10th level, the Polymath learns how to blend two techniques. Once per day per 10 class levels, the Polymath may cast two Techniques as a full-round action.

    Mirror:At 20th level, the Polymath has learned how to mimic his opponent's attacks to the point where he can copy them perfectly. For a number of rounds per day per 3 class levels, he may become a perfect copy of any opponent within 30 ft. He is identical to them in all aspects except for appearance. However, as a result of this, he does not gain the benefit of any racial traits, feats, or class levels he has when activating this class feature.

    Spells not done yet, but PEACH what you can

    Done. Please PEACH

    Edit:
    Polymaths and Qualifying for Feats and PrCs
    When qualifying for any feat that has a class feature as a prerequisite, the Polymath is considered as having the class feature. However, Polymaths may not use techniques to qualify as having a certain class feature for PrCs, with the exception of spells and similar things, and then with restrictions. The Polymath may only qualify for a PrC with a spellcasting prerequisite if it requires only that entrants know certain specific spells. Should the Polymath know those spells as techniques, then she qualifies. However, they cannot qualify for a class that requires entrants to be able to cast spells of a certain school or level.
    Last edited by Pyromancer999; 2010-09-24 at 02:44 PM.

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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    The Polymath has been completed. Please PEACH

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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    So the table has spells is that spells per day, spells known, or both?
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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    I wasn't entirely sure on how the spells learned progression should go, so, yeah, I'd say both.

    If you're unsatisfied with that, you can always just use the sorcerer's spells learned instead.

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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    Also what can you use your 0 level spells for? As written everything is a 1st level or higher ability (as 1 divided by 2 rounded up is still 1 and nobody get 0 level class features).

    What action is it to cast a constant class feature? Also constant class features are right now much worse than usage ones.

    Also you mention mysteries so I assume you are familiar with ToM so would vestiges be a constant or usage ability? The bind normally has a duration (24 hours).
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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    As mentioned, 0 level spells grant you a 1st level class feature as a 1st level member of the class for 1 round. So, for instance, with a cantrip, you can gain Sneak Attack +1d6 for 1 round if you pleased.

    Constant use class features are class features without a limit on their usage, like Sneak Attack, Eldritch Blast, or a Fighter's Bonus feat.

    Usage class features are class features with limits on their use, like 1/day. Examples are things like Wildshape, and an Assassin's Death Attack.

    I guess vestiges would count as a constant ability, as most of them don't have much restriction on their usage. But you couldn't gain the effects of more vestiges than a binder your level could bind each day.

    Helpful?

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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    What action is it to cast a "spell" to get a constant ability? Free? Swift? Immediate?
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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    It would vary. If it required an action to activate it as it was (like Eldritch blast), it would use that action. Otherwise, just assume a standard action is needed.

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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    So 0 level abilities should never be constant abilities, then. Hmm...
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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    This is... almost beyond Tier 1. It can learn any spell from any spell list, and aside from that it can prepare class features, from any class in the game, as spells. I mean, please tell me I'm missing something.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2010-09-23 at 01:43 AM.
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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    This is... almost beyond Tier 1. It can learn any spell from any spell list, and aside from that it can prepare class features, from any class in the game, as spells. I mean, please tell me I'm missing something.
    Bigtime. The only things it couldn't learn would be things base classes get at level 19 and 20, or from PrCs (thank god).

    Plus, casting any two spells as a standard action? Or THREE? Cast three 1 round casting time spells right there and everyone will want you dead or worship you.


    ...also, you're missing a class skills list.
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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    In the hands of someone playing for mutual fun, this could be a total craze in the positive sense.

    But as pointed out, in the hands of the Playground, it gets totally wacky. If an optimizer heads this way, they will show you why.

    What I'd think to fix:
    1) Class skill list I'd assume is all skills are class skills?
    2) Ban it from using proper spells? Maybe a bit drastic. And I'd change the name of "class feature spells", it can get confusing. Similes? Imitations? Echoes?

    edit: <sniff> taking my toys to some other sandbox <sniff>
    Last edited by Unrest; 2010-09-23 at 05:15 PM.

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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    Ok. Changed the class a bit:

    • Skills for this class are any 10 skills that the Polymath selects
    • Triplicate is now gone, replaced by new class feature: Mirror
    • Limited learning spells or similar stuff to 1 for each spell level
    • changed maximum spell level to 6. May change later, but for now, I think it's good
    • Note: Duo Strike is 1/day, 2/day at 20th
    • Class feature spells are now known as Techniques (0-level ones are known as Tricks)
    • Duo Strike is now a full-round action


    Feel free to comment and PEACH the changes.

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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    That's all much more sane, to be sure; however, I'm still afraid it's probably broken.

    You need to list how it learns its spells in the spellcasting section... or wait, is that what you're trying to say, here:

    However, Stereotypes may only learn one such thing as a technique for each spell level (so only one 0 level technique like this, only one 1st level technique, etc)
    Because if so, that's a very, very bad placement for that little bit of information, it references something called a Stereotype, which I assume is an earlier version name for the class, and it's not really very clear.

    If the class is only capable of learning and "casting" Techniques, you haven't specified this anywhere, nor have you stated how many "non-spell" Techniques the class is able to learn each level either.

    I would recommend that you decide one way or the other. Is it a class that casts spells, uses spell slots per day, and can learn and cast class features as though they were spells? OR Is it a class that "casts" techniques, uses technique slots per day, and can learn and cast spells as though they were techniques?

    This is actually a pretty darned cool idea, and you really did a great job with the rulings on preparing class features in spell slots and casting them, however it's still pretty incomplete and there's still a lot more to be thought through.
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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post

    I would recommend that you decide one way or the other. Is it a class that casts spells, uses spell slots per day, and can learn and cast class features as though they were spells? OR Is it a class that "casts" techniques, uses technique slots per day, and can learn and cast spells as though they were techniques?
    The Polymath is now changed so that it uses a Technique system, which is basically a modified spellcasting system, but is still a system of it's own.

    I've also added in how many techniques a Polymath learns.

    Comments?

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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    There are still quite a few things missing from your clarifications, and still a few things to clarify.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyromancer999 View Post
    Techniques: Polymaths learn how to use class features by reducing them to an arcane formulae, called techniques. Techniques generally operate the same way as spells do, except for the rules noted here. Polymaths may use techniques spontaneously, like sorcerers cast spells. Techniques are used through technique slots, as listed on the table above.

    Polymaths essentially learn how to use class features as though they were spells. When treating a class feature as a spell, the following applies:

    • Class features learned as spells are known as Techniques
    • Techniques may only be taken from base classes.
    • The class feature is treated as a technique of 1/2 the level a normal member of the class would gain it, rounded up (ex. a Polymath learns Wildshape, which Druids learn at level 5. Since 1/2 of that would be 2 1/2, it is treated as a 3rd level spell)
    • There are two kinds of techniques: constant and usage
    • Constant techniques, when cast, grant the Polymath access to the class ability for a number of rounds equal to the Polymath's caster level. They may cast as many times as the Polymath likes, so long as the Polymath has a spell slot available to "cast it"
    • Usage class features are any class feature that has a limited number of uses.
    • For all purposes except duration for usage class features, the Polymath is treated as having a number of levels in that class equal to his caster level. Duration for such features is treated as though the Polymath had 1/2 his caster level in class levels for the class(Ex. An 8th level Polymath can use Wildshape as an 8th level class, but it only lasts 4 hours (1 hour per class level)
    • Any improvements to a class feature must be learned as a new technique, treating it as a class feature gained at the level it is improved at.
    • Polymaths cannot learn spellcasting, or other similar features, as spells. However, they may learn spells, mysteries, and other things, as spells (learning Astral Construct as a 1st level spell). However, Polymaths may only learn one such thing as a technique for each spell level (so only one 0 level technique like this, only one 1st level technique, etc)
    • Usage techniques cannot be used more times per day than a member of the original class's caster level would be able to use it (ex. An 8th level Polymath cannot cast Wildshape more than 2/day, as that is how many times an 8th level druid may use it)
    • 0-level techniques (called tricks) simply grant access to any 1st level class features for 1 round.


    Polymaths generally know how to cast one technique per technique slot.
    For instance:

    1) You've said in a reply to someone in this thread that casting Techniques is the same action as the class feature and that if an action isn't specified for the class feature (the case for many constant techniques) it should be assumed to be a standard action. You need to include that in the actual Polymath class description somewhere very clear to readers in the Techniques heading. Otherwise, they aren't going to have any idea.

    2) You still haven't clearly stated how often a Polymath learns techniques, OR how many they actually know. You have a vague sentence at the end of the section that says they "generally know how to cast one technique per technique slot." This tells me nothing. I can infer that you might mean that they only know a single technique per level, but I don't know if that's true. Is it? Because if so that's probably pretty bad.

    3) Time to get tricky. As far as this class is concerned Soul Binding (Binder) is a class feature, as are Inspiration and Arcane Dilettante (Factotum). As far as I can tell you could prepare those as Constant Techniques and get a whole lot of bang for your buck.

    4) Another tricky one. You say that the class is able to learn spells and mysteries as Techniques so what about Tome of Battle maneuvers? And if you can learn them are they constant or usage Techniques? I would advise treating them as constant Techniques, usable once per encounter (as long as the duration of the Technique lasts), with no recovery. Stances could work similarly.

    Finally, it's good that you went the way of the Technique system, rather than casting class features as though they were spells. As spells you could metamagic class features which could get really messy with some metamagics, and especially with Turn Undead and Divine Metamagic...
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    Default Re: The Polymath: Anything you can do, I can do too[Base Class]- PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post

    4) Another tricky one. You say that the class is able to learn spells and mysteries as Techniques so what about Tome of Battle maneuvers? And if you can learn them are they constant or usage Techniques? I would advise treating them as constant Techniques, usable once per encounter (as long as the duration of the Technique lasts), with no recovery. Stances could work similarly.
    I would treat maneuvers as usage techniques. You could still cast them once per encounter(providing you had the technique slots, but they still have limits on their use, thus being usage class features.

    Stances, however, can be used at any time, and thus would be constant class features.

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