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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    Please note that submitting an illegal build will cause you to receive scores of 0 in Power, Elegance, AND Use of the Secret Ingredient. While I do not like to penalize multiple times for the same thing, there is no excuse for submitting an illegal build to this contest. Please double check your entry requirements and feat prerequisites.
    Though I have no particular issue with the intent, the minimum score is always 1.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Ok, seeking official ruling.

    Quote Originally Posted by War Mind
    Sweeping Strike (Ex): At 5th level, a war mind gains the ability to make great, sweeping swings with a melee weapon. On each melee attack a war mind makes, he can choose squares he threatens that are adjacent to each other, and his attacks apply to creatures in those two squares equally.
    It says squares he threatens that are adjacent, and then mentions two squares. What if through ability or race he threatens more, or if tiny or smaller, less?
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-09-27 at 02:29 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    It says squares he threatens that are adjacent, and then mentions two squares. What if through ability or race he threatens more, or if tiny or smaller, less?
    I spent a few minutes eyeballing that when I first read the class. I think its two squares that are adjacent to one another within your reach.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias9 View Post
    Though I have no particular issue with the intent, the minimum score is always 1.
    Mutiple judges have given 0s in past competitions--is the minimum score of 1 a recent ruling?

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    I spent a few minutes eyeballing that when I first read the class. I think its two squares that are adjacent to one another within your reach.
    Personally, I agree with BobVosh.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    I'm in as a contestant.

    What is the verdict on using all of the psionic content on the wizards site? The Mind's Eye and Expanded Classes articles have a lot of good stuff.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post

    It says squares he threatens that are adjacent, and then mentions two squares. What if through ability or race he threatens more, or if tiny or smaller, less?
    "Adjacent" refers to the squares being adjacent to one another, not the squares being adjacent to the warmind.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Amphetryon, I'll cite two examples I marked down for this. The most recent was Wruk. Wruk seemed to be rather dependant on his contacts and influence within a specific city. Being able to manipulate the pieces of his "game" and whatnot. This stuck me as being something more akin to a mastermind BBEG, rather than a PC. His prefered method of ambush, along with his by-the-book contingent disappear-in-a-puff-of-smoke getaways don't really play well in a party, but are AWESOME for a recurring BBEG. It just makes for quite a bit of story disconnect when one player survives a TPK and has to start a new party with new random strangers? Especially one as well connected as Wruk. The other PCs aren't exactly disposable mooks. Similarly, Wruk's ability to know EVERYTHING thats going on within 100 miles would be rediculously hard for a DM to deal with, but as an NPC, gives you a non-fiat reason why the BBEG is always a half step ahead of the PCs. The whole concept just SCREAMS NPC to me, rather than PC.

    Another example, as I noted while judging, was Sway. Sway's prefered combat style generally involved beguiling foes with her dancing, then ambushing them while their pants are down (metaphorically speaking...mostly). In most dungeoncrawling/planarcrawling/etc style adventures, you won't even get the opportunity to set up such an ambush, and even if you do, the other players will be sitting around bored while you RP with the DM planning, plotting, and setting up situations to utilize this. On the other side, she makes an excellent plot NPC. She'd be an ideal assassin sent to kill a prince/king/noble/merchant/whatever under the protection of the PCs, and have a good chance to beguile some of the PCs before starting an ambush encounter for the PCs to fight as either a solo baddy or with a couple of on-demand disposable mooks. If the city council of New Phlan wants the party to to eliminate the source of the undead at Shoakal Keep, having Sway in the party kinda denies her the ability to use most of her dirty tricks which is less fun for that player. If every encounter involves deep intrigue and setting up delicate and strategic assassinations so Sway can get her groove on, the battle rager dwarf and the sun worshipping cleric are going to feel likewise left out. Most of the time, encounters are going to be of the former type, rather than the latter, unless its specifically set up as a high-intrigue game, or a solo game with just Sway.

    Don't get me wrong, both were VERY powerful and very flavorful characters, they just didn't seem to really fit well into a "typical" party environment. Now, if the whole party was coordinated to take advantage of those tactics, they would be very effective. Short of making everyone else's character for them, however, that is not a luxury you can always afford. Most of the other builds, like Jack, Jakob, Sizok, Mundo, etc, from the last competition, all fit well within "normal" party dynamics (ie; violent hobos who kill things and take their stuff). Character's who focus too much on intrigue, or who don't travel well, tend to steal the spotlight and leave others bored while doing their "thing". Team combat, on the other hand, is something everyone can participate in.

    I hope this makes sense. Again, this is not to disparage the amazing creativity that went into the design of these characters. They just brushed me as the type of characters that would make better NPCs than PCs. Just something to keep in mind for future competitions.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    Mutiple judges have given 0s in past competitions--is the minimum score of 1 a recent ruling?
    To my knowledge, we just never formally dealt with it. So I guess that that makes it a brand new ruling.

    For reference, when Vorpal Tribble refused to score a... lackluster entry in IC5, the zeroes were noteworthy enough that Heliomance made an aside in the final scoring. I'm just taking the opportunity to formalize the situation in a way that is consistent with the standing 1-5 scoring range.

    Judges should feel free to refuse to score entries that they believe are insufficient for competition: such entries will be considered as having minimum points for that judge.
    Last edited by Ozymandias9; 2010-09-27 at 04:47 PM.
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. [...]Where did you start yours?
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  9. - Top - End - #39
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Uhm silly question (which the errata for the power from the wotc webpage soooo does **not** clear up)

    The 'expansion' power says 1 min/level in it's power info block. But the augment option #3 says "this duration becomes 10 min/level, instead of 1 round/level"

    The original from the book was even worse "duration is 1 min/level rather then 1 round/level".

    clarification, please?
    I play bards a LOT in 3/3.5... keep this in mind when I post answers to questions :)

    Running the Night Below (old 2nd edition module) adapted to 3.5, heres the journal:

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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    The SRD incorporates the errata. Expansion from the SRD states:
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Expansion
    Psychometabolism
    Level: Psychic warrior 1
    Display: Olfactory
    Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 1 round/level (D)
    Power Points: 1
    So yea, the correct answer is rounds/level unless augemented.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    Ok, seeking official ruling. [...]It says squares he threatens that are adjacent, and then mentions two squares. What if through ability or race he threatens more, or if tiny or smaller, less?
    It affects only 2 squares, they must be adjacent to each other, and s/he must threaten both of them. The decision on which squares to count is made with each attack.
    Last edited by Ozymandias9; 2010-09-28 at 06:35 AM.
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. [...]Where did you start yours?
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  12. - Top - End - #42
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    I am hitting a few walls char-op wise. Need moar feats. Heroism spam just wont cut it...Should work out the kinks before the deadline though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Another example, as I noted while judging, was Sway. Sway's prefered combat style generally involved beguiling foes with her dancing, then ambushing them while their pants are down (metaphorically speaking...mostly). In most dungeoncrawling/planarcrawling/etc style adventures, you won't even get the opportunity to set up such an ambush, and even if you do, the other players will be sitting around bored while you RP with the DM planning, plotting, and setting up situations to utilize this. On the other side, she makes an excellent plot NPC. She'd be an ideal assassin sent to kill a prince/king/noble/merchant/whatever under the protection of the PCs, and have a good chance to beguile some of the PCs before starting an ambush encounter for the PCs to fight as either a solo baddy or with a couple of on-demand disposable mooks. If the city council of New Phlan wants the party to to eliminate the source of the undead at Shoakal Keep, having Sway in the party kinda denies her the ability to use most of her dirty tricks which is less fun for that player. If every encounter involves deep intrigue and setting up delicate and strategic assassinations so Sway can get her groove on, the battle rager dwarf and the sun worshipping cleric are going to feel likewise left out. Most of the time, encounters are going to be of the former type, rather than the latter, unless its specifically set up as a high-intrigue game, or a solo game with just Sway.
    Detect hostile intent at will. Energy drain. Stealth. Poison. Sway could be a team player. Not tier one, but most of her options benefit team play. Outside of combat, she could keep up with party intrigue and information gathering. In combat, the stream of status effects would keep the casters at the top of their game, especially those relying on SoD's and SoS.

    I personally thought the character was weak. Certainly not a burden to a party, but in a solo game she would get overwhelmed pretty quickly. That is part of the reason the description portrayed her as a backround or support character.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Whew!
    Submitted my build.
    That was harder then I thought it would be.
    Had like ten different ideas I had to narrow down.
    I'm interested to see what everyone else is going with.

    War Mind is a weird little class... all that knowledge but no use for knowledge skills. Only full base attack class that I could find with both Knowledge History and Knowledge Psionics was the Duskblade, which otherwise had almost nothing else in common.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    OMG PONIES's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    And so it begins...
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Ahem. A reminder:

    Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Is submitting multiple builds frowned upon? I have a few nearly completed builds that are vastly different. I'm not sure I can narrow it down to just one.

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by Rancor1 View Post
    Is submitting multiple builds frowned upon? I have a few nearly completed builds that are vastly different. I'm not sure I can narrow it down to just one.
    No rule against it; OMG did it last time.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Had a cool idea which apparently isn't very original despite my having come up with it on my own so likely going to wait til next competition.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Trib, you'd better submit it!
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    I think I'll give this a try.
    Quick question.
    What happen if warmind was my only manifesting class and I picked up and
    then I picked up a PrC with "+1 ML" what would happen?
    A) nothing. Warmind only has PP and power progression up to level 10.
    B) same as A but the warmind's ML increases.
    C) ML, PP and powers gained at same pace.

    The fact that warmind isn't a "+1 ML" class makes it a bit tricky as an ingrediant.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    The bonus PP table is only dependant on ML and casting stat. You can progress your Warmind ML past 10 using any number of tricks (including using a +1 ML PrC). You won't get any more Powers Known or similar benefits, but you'll still increase your ML (which will let you augment powers higher) and you will get more PP based on the function of your casting stat and your ML.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
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    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  22. - Top - End - #52
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    So yea, the correct answer is rounds/level unless augemented.
    Never thought to check the online SRD... I have most the stuff in hard copy. Thanks Keld.
    I play bards a LOT in 3/3.5... keep this in mind when I post answers to questions :)

    Running the Night Below (old 2nd edition module) adapted to 3.5, heres the journal:

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166334 (game now defunct sadly)


    Now running, Red hand of Doom in Forgotten Realms
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219147

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    First build submitted; we'll see if I have time and sufficient motivation/op-fu to crank out my second idea.
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Ooh, yeah, do it!

    I'm secretly hoping that at least one of my possible build ideas pops up, but I must warn you all--I would have scored myself low.
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  25. - Top - End - #55
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias9 View Post
    It's 5 days from when I posted it. When I did 7 I was told it was a long period. I'm quite willing to extend it if a significant number of participants think Friday 10/1/10 would be better.
    Given the couple of posts in the thread and a couple of PMs, I've decided to go with this.

    Cutoff will be Friday 1 October 2001, 11:59pm CUT. I'll, most likely, still be lecturing at 11:59pm CUT, so you might squeeze one in an hour or two late-- but no promises.

    The original post will be updated appropriately.
    Last edited by Ozymandias9; 2010-09-29 at 04:48 PM.
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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    Ooh, yeah, do it!

    I'm secretly hoping that at least one of my possible build ideas pops up, but I must warn you all--I would have scored myself low.
    If you don't see it you'll have to tell us what it was.
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by Player3 View Post
    If you don't see it you'll have to tell us what it was.
    What they were...I was kicking around 3. I'll be sure to post them along with my judging.
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias9 View Post
    Given the couple of posts in the thread and a couple of PMs, I've decided to go with this.

    Cutoff will be Friday 1 October 2001, 11:59pm CUT. I'll, most likely, still be lecturing at 11:59pm CUT, so you might squeeze one in an hour or two late-- but no promises.

    The original post will be updated appropriately.

    I'm not sure it'll help my build over all... but I greatly appreciate the extension, nonetheless. Danke, Mein Hier.
    I play bards a LOT in 3/3.5... keep this in mind when I post answers to questions :)

    Running the Night Below (old 2nd edition module) adapted to 3.5, heres the journal:

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166334 (game now defunct sadly)


    Now running, Red hand of Doom in Forgotten Realms
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219147

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias9 View Post
    I'll, most likely, still be lecturing at 11:59pm CUT...
    A lecturer, you say? If you don't mind me asking, on what do you lecture, and in what capacity?
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  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    I promise to ask the collective braintrust here if they have clever ideas for implementing my 2nd concept, if I can't complete and submit it.
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