Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

[dextercorvia]

A lecturer, you say? If you don't mind me asking, on what do you lecture, and in what capacity?

I hope from his name, English Lit. One of my favorite poems.

[Ozymandias9]

Unrelated answers to personal questions.

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A lecturer, you say? If you don't mind me asking, on what do you lecture, and in what capacity?

Historical Economic Anthropology and Classical History. Until a few years back, I had an endowed teaching chair, but family obligations have taken me to a far more limited (and unfortunately, more rural) setting: for the foreseeable future, its just 2 GE undergrad lecture classes a week and some thesis advising for masters candidates.

I hope from his name, English Lit. One of my favorite poems.

Mine too. And, as an added bonus, I also get to reference Ancient Egypt and "The Watchmen" at the same time. When I started using this handle (nineteen-ninety-something?), it didn't occur to me for about a year that most people would connect it to Adrian Veidt before the Shelley poem. Which is kinda silly, since my partner had just bought his first comic store a year or so prior.

In another interesting twist, I found out about 6 years ago that there was not only another person using this handle, but-- of all things-- another gay guy from the Midwest using it (though a much younger one, which made me feel old). We corresponded for a bit and eventually met up at SDCC once. Sadly, we fell out of contact a couple years ago.

[WinWin]

I appreciate the extra time. It will give me a chance to work on presentation and find an approprite picture. I'm going to need it in order to distract the judges from my RAW abuse.

[OMG PONIES]

I feel a great disturbance in the ICO Challenge, as if millions of elegance scores suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

[true_shinken]

Man, I had logged in just to say I couldn't make it in time, but the extra time might help.
This week is killing me. Four tests! Brazilian Literature, Japanese Literature, Portuguese Literature and Portuguese-Language African Literature. Seriously, it's driving me crazy.

[classy one]

UA is fine then we can use LA buyback or up to a certain point? Or not at all. Or will it penalized?

[OMG PONIES]

As with most things in Iron Chef, different judges have different opinions. The best place to check is the judge's criteria.

Private-Prinny's criteria, under Elegance:

Cons: ...Does the build rely on alternate rules?

This seems to indicate that LA buyoff, if crucial to the build, may cause a deduction.

Keld Denar's criteria, under Power:

Does the build use large amounts of LA and/or RHD that could lead to a slow start?

Even though you can reduce or eliminate your LA at higher levels, it looks like Keld may deduct for having the LA (and thus, reduced class power and survivability) at lower levels.

And finally, my criteria, under Elegance:

4: The build presented, while streamlined, efficient, and free of dips, relies on a variant such as LA buyoff or variant classes/races presented in Unearthed Arcana. Please keep in mind that such elements can be presented as possible adaptations with no reduction to Elegance. However, if the build cannot function without the variant used, the deduction will be taken.

While I'm a fan of LA buyoff, it's not the most elegant solution, so I feel the need to take off a point. Keep in mind, at least these three judges have mentioned that they will penalize a reliance on LA buyoff. If you need it to make your build work, you're looking at some reductions. On the other hand, if it's a footnote--if you could add it, more as a garnish than anything else, it could receive cheers instead of jeers.

[Keld Denar]

I personally don't have a problem with it in the elegance catagory. As the quote Mr. PONIES pointed out states, LA tends to hurt a LOT at low levels in the survivability catagory. HP are your last line of defense against death in most cases. Running out of HP is the leading cause of death amongst D&D characters. Each HD lost to LA is another few HP you won't have. Its like starting every battle wounded. You can say "my character stays in the back, and has X, Y, and Z protections", but things still happen. AoEs still happen. Swarms still happen. Ambushes still happen. Traps still happen. Targeted death spells still happen. LA buy off recovers those HD, but they still come late. You can't buy off the first point of a +3 LA until ECL12! Surviving at level 12 with 25-35 fewer HP (not to mention your HD are lower, WRT HD dependant spells like Sleep all the way up through Blasphemy) is rough.

Survivability is a large part of power, IMO. It doesn't matter if your character can deal 100,000 damage per round or implode the universe with a thought, you can't do any damage while lying in a rapidly growing pool of your own blood trying despirately to keep your insides on the inside.

[Ozymandias9]

UA is fine then we can use LA buyback or up to a certain point? Or not at all. Or will it penalized?

It's not banned, but it usually sees at least some elegance penalty from some judges.

[Dralnu]

Just saying as a spectator, my favorite builds from these competitions are ones that are streamlined enough in execution that I could realistically pick it up at a low level in an RL game and have fun with it all the way through. I plan on playing a couple past entries in future games when I get the rare chance to take a player seat. That's the real beauty that I take away from these competitions personally.

I know that's not the main point of the competition, it limits creative juices, and it's all about level 20 baby, but I agree with judges who say that it should at least count for a point in one category.

[Amphetryon]

Just saying as a spectator, my favorite builds from these competitions are ones that are streamlined enough in execution that I could realistically pick it up at a low level in an RL game and have fun with it all the way through. I plan on playing a couple past entries in future games when I get the rare chance to take a player seat. That's the real beauty that I take away from these competitions personally.

I know that's not the main point of the competition, it limits creative juices, and it's all about level 20 baby, but I agree with judges who say that it should at least count for a point in one category.

Can't speak for the other competitors, but "I plan on using your build" is about as high a compliment as I could hope for from this forum. Please let us know which ones you use! :)

[Keld Denar]

Supplimenting Amphetryon, you'll notice that the builds that win ARE generally playable from 1-20. I know when I judge, elegance (flow, use of level breaks, synergy of abilities) is greatly influenced by playability at all levels, while power (lack of saggy spots, slow starts, or glaring vulnerabilities) is also measured across the 1-20 span. If a build has a couple of weak spots before coming into REAL ULTIMATE POWER, it'll generally get marked down enough by enough judges that it probably won't win.

[Dralnu]

Can't speak for the other competitors, but "I plan on using your build" is about as high a compliment as I could hope for from this forum. Please let us know which ones you use! :)

Well personally, I never experience campaigns above level 10, so what I look for may differ from others.

My upcoming level 3 character for a campaign will be Dulcinea from the blade bravo competition. I've never played a binder before. It looks fun even at low levels and there's strategy tips, gear recommendation, everything really. Very comprehensive, simple, fun, and should work well with the rest of the team. Thanks, OMG!

[OMG PONIES]

Well personally, I never experience campaigns above level 10, so what I look for may differ from others.

My upcoming level 3 character for a campaign will be Dulcinea from the blade bravo competition. I've never played a binder before. It looks fun even at low levels and there's strategy tips, gear recommendation, everything really. Very comprehensive, simple, fun, and should work well with the rest of the team. Thanks, OMG!

I'm flattered. As I told Vorpal Tribble when I entered one of his PbP games, I almost wanted to submit Milo as a PC (my build from the Mythic Exemplar competition), because I had such a good time making him.

Also, you've been sigged. Well, trimmed and sigged, since it got on me about character limits.

[WinWin]

Build submitted. Good luck everyone!

[Ozymandias9]

Just saying as a spectator, my favorite builds from these competitions are ones that are streamlined enough in execution that I could realistically pick it up at a low level in an RL game and have fun with it all the way through. I plan on playing a couple past entries in future games when I get the rare chance to take a player seat. That's the real beauty that I take away from these competitions personally.

I know that's not the main point of the competition, it limits creative juices, and it's all about level 20 baby, but I agree with judges who say that it should at least count for a point in one category.

Actually, being playable for the whole level range is one of the elements that has always been presented as a goal in the contest. There is, however, a far wider potential range of "playable" at the higher levels, so the results tend to be more noticeable than at, say, level 8.

[Cadian 9th]

Build submitted; Gah!

I actually really enjoyed making a build that would be good from 1-20th level; It makes a change. I tried to make it as elegant as possible, but hey. We'll see what the judges say.

[ranagrande]

Now that it's the last day of an extended deadline, I've decided that I should enter this. I hope to have something completed in time.

[BobVosh]

Now that it's the last day of an extended deadline, I've decided that I should enter this. I hope to have something completed in time.

Uh. Good luck, I found I spent a lot more time on this than any other build I have ever done.

A LOT.

And I'm still dropping since I have the choice of finishing the build or playing in my friend's kingmaker campaign. If I somehow find the time to finish it by midnight, I'll send it in. However, I doubt it.

[OMG PONIES]

Man, if the deadline had still been last night, I could have been judging by now. Granted, I'd have had less builds to judge...good luck to all competitors, and I expect to see nothing but the best. My judging should be done sometime Monday.

[true_shinken]

I'll have to drop out.
Too much on my plate today.
Damn Kojiki.

[OMG PONIES]

Aw man, I was looking forward to your entry. How many have actually submitted so far, Ozy?

[Nerdanel]

The deadline is approaching ominously. It looks like my entry will be lacking in polish... Well, there are still a few hours left.

[OMG PONIES]

Mush, my puppies, mush! Your scores eagerly await you at the finish line.

[Player3]

I hope there isn't anything I've missed in the build.

[Nerdanel]

Whew. I got the PM sent two minutes before the deadline. The submission is what it is, but at least the most important stuff should be there.

[true_shinken]

Is there a chance to include me in the judging board? Even if I couldn't get my entry done in time, I still want to participate.

[OMG PONIES]

I don't think there have ever been more than 5. Feel free to post scores--we can use them if another judge drops. If not, your scores may not be official, though--I don't know the process for a sixth judge, if ICO even has one.

[WinWin]

I'm getting tense. I'm exited to see what other people have come up with. I will have to find something productive and healthy to do for the next few hours. Damnit, I feel like a little kid a 3:am on Christmas morning.

[Amphetryon]

This is the part of the contest where I fret about whether others had the same weird idea I did...