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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    Just let me know when/if to jump in.
    I'd be happy to have you. We've not heard recently from some of the judges.

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    Due to RL and a lack of familiarity with Psionics, my judging is progressing, but slowly. If any of the guest judges want to take my seat, go for it.
    Feel free to drop out if you need to, but no rush.
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  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Well, looks like we have 2 done, 1 on the way, and 1 going slowly.

    I'll jump in as the fifth. Will start looking over them shortly. Haven't read anything since before the entries were posted, so this should be completely unbiased by anything said

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    I'm still about half done. Some of these are kinda tough to process. There are a lot of similar elements, but its not as easy as Blade Bravo or Pyrokineticist were.
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  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Well, I got 2 more done this evening. Unfortunately, I'm headed out to a birthday party and should be gone most of the weekend. If y'all don't mind waiting until about Monday, I should get the last 4 done. Sorry for the delays.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
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  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by WinWin View Post
    Class x 5/Warmind 8/Divine Crusader 7

    Least abusive option. Obvious widsom synergy could effect base class choice. Strength and Constitution should also be high. Giant size becomes available no earlier than lvl 14. Divine crusader levels could be exchanged for a divine casting PrC for more customisation. Requires the Heroism domain that KD mentioned.


    nope. Need 8's.
    Would Paladin 4/War Mind 8/Divine Crusader 8 work? I'm AFB, but it seems like using Primary Contact/Favored (from Cityscape, I think) could get use into War Mind at level 5, thus leaving room for 8 levels of Divine Crusader, or sprinkling in some PrC that advances its casting.

    EDIT: Sorry, I meant War Mind.
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2010-10-09 at 07:28 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    Would Paladin 4/Divine Mind 8/Divine Crusader 8 work? I'm AFB, but it seems like using Primary Contact/Favored (from Cityscape, I think) could get use into War Mind at level 5, thus leaving room for 8 levels of Divine Crusader, or sprinkling in some PrC that advances its casting.
    That would get Giant Size. Ampheryton wanted to know if there was a way to get Giant Size and >7 levels of Warmind. Fitting in 7 levels is not that hard.

    Starting as a Wu Jen and having a Spirit Ally spawn you would allow qualification for emancipated spawn. Repeatedly tap a thought bottle and gain back Wu Jen class features as ES (su) class features. Then use the remainder of your thought bottle XP to gain Warmind levels. You would re-enter play as a 3hd Shadow/ +5LA/ Emancipated Spawn 3/ Warmind 2. Continue prograssion as Warmind. STP Erudite could also do this, but at 15th level instead of 13. Level differential abuse is hardly practical though. You may as well just remake the Word.

    PHB2 retraining/rebuilding would work, but only with a fast casting progression PrC like Divine Crusader or Ur-Priest (with domain access). I doubt many DM's would allow a character to train out the majority of their base classes.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    You could also swing something like warmind5/divinecrusader1/psychictheurge5/ in the middle...?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
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    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by WinWin View Post
    That would get Giant Size. Ampheryton wanted to know if there was a way to get Giant Size and >7 levels of Warmind. Fitting in 7 levels is not that hard.
    Sorry, I meant War Mind. There would be 8 levels of War Mind, not Divine Mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by WinWin View Post
    [thought bottle trick]...
    PHB2 retraining/rebuilding would work, but only with a fast casting progression PrC like Divine Crusader or Ur-Priest (with domain access). I doubt many DM's would allow a character to train out the majority of their base classes.
    As a DM, I would allow extensive retraining before allowing thought bottle shenanigans.
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  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    Would Paladin 4/War Mind 8/Divine Crusader 8 work? I'm AFB, but it seems like using Primary Contact/Favored (from Cityscape, I think) could get use into War Mind at level 5, thus leaving room for 8 levels of Divine Crusader, or sprinkling in some PrC that advances its casting.

    EDIT: Sorry, I meant War Mind.
    It's been argued on this board before that a strict RAW reading of Primary Mind/Favored does not allow you to break the level cap for skill points except at the level where Favored is gained; I touched briefly on this way back in the Stonelord IC challenge, IIRC. That means the above build would only work if you found a way to take Favored at 4th character level, which is difficult, or alternately if you houseruled how Favored works, which seems destined for poor scores in ICOC.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    That means the above build would only work if you found a way to take Favored at 4th character level, which is difficult, or alternately if you houseruled how Favored works, which seems destined for poor scores in ICOC.
    Nah, not difficult. Just sell your soul or get yourself a legacy item then pay for dark chaos shuffle.
    Cheesy, perhaps. Difficult? Not much.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    [Good point about Primary Contact/Favored]...That means the above build would only work if you found a way to take Favored at 4th character level, which is difficult, or alternately if you houseruled how Favored works, which seems destined for poor scores in ICOC.
    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    Nah, not difficult. Just sell your soul or get yourself a legacy item then pay for dark chaos shuffle.
    Cheesy, perhaps. Difficult? Not much.
    Paladin 2/Human Paragon 2/War Mind 8/Divine Crusader 8. Simple, and not cheesy. Does that solve it?
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  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    EDIT: I do believe that using the Dark Chaos Shuffle in ICOC would probably get me 1's across the board.

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    Paladin 2/Human Paragon 2/War Mind 8/Divine Crusader 8. Simple, and not cheesy. Does that solve it?
    You win one internetz AND one cookie, OMG.
    Last edited by Amphetryon; 2010-10-09 at 08:43 AM.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Can you actually get the Hero domain as a Divine Crusader, though? Isn't it a Shaman Domain, which is a different thing entirely from a Cleric Domain?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    EDIT: I do believe that using the Dark Chaos Shuffle in ICOC would probably get me 1's across the board.
    Oh, please. There is a dude trying to pull out a kobold Wyrm of War in this Iron Chef... and he's actually doing pretty well so far.
    At most chaos shuffle should cost you a few points in elegance.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    Oh, please. There is a dude trying to pull out a kobold Wyrm of War in this Iron Chef... and he's actually doing pretty well so far.
    At most chaos shuffle should cost you a few points in elegance.
    A kobold Wyrm of War is a little different, though...namely, he's not a Loredrake. It's TO, sure, but it's a novel TO direction, like the Artificer Master of Masks (which should have lost a lot in UoSI, but I won't go into that).
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    A kobold Wyrm of War is a little different, though...namely, he's not a Loredrake. It's TO, sure, but it's a novel TO direction, like the Artificer Master of Masks (which should have lost a lot in UoSI, but I won't go into that).
    It's not TO, it's illegal. Just skimming the sovereign archetypes tells you that you need to give up a true dragon's ability to choose spells from clerical domains as sorcerer spells to gain the benefit of an archetype.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    It's not TO, it's illegal. Just skimming the sovereign archetypes tells you that you need to give up a true dragon's ability to choose spells from clerical domains as sorcerer spells to gain the benefit of an archetype.
    Do they also say that the dragon must have that ability to begin with?

    While such a requirement would be logical, thinking that way also rules out the ever-popular Wildshape Mystic Ranger. In any case, the definition of TO is dubious bull**** that would never fly in an actual game, but is technically allowed.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Do they also say that the dragon must have that ability to begin with?
    Yes, it states outright that you need the ability. It even adds that, if the DM really wants to, he can allow a dragon without that ability to pick it up.
    Also, sovereign archetypes are meant for NPCs. It's like taking Legendary Strenght from the DMGII.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    While such a requirement would be logical, thinking that way also rules out the ever-popular Wildshape Mystic Ranger.
    Not at all. Mystic Ranger gets combat style, albeit at a slowed progression.
    Wildshape variant give sup combat style. Mystic Ranger has said combat style. Hence, he can give it up for the wildshape variant. I can't see a contradiction here.

    And heck, kobolds are not true dragons anyway.
    Last edited by true_shinken; 2010-10-09 at 02:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    It's been argued on this board before that a strict RAW reading of Primary Mind/Favored does not allow you to break the level cap for skill points except at the level where Favored is gained; I touched briefly on this way back in the Stonelord IC challenge, IIRC. That means the above build would only work if you found a way to take Favored at 4th character level, which is difficult, or alternately if you houseruled how Favored works, which seems destined for poor scores in ICOC.
    Another way I can think of is if you dip a level of Marshal when you already have Skill Focus(Diplomacy), so you get whatever feat you want when you take your first level of Marshall. Retrain/Dark Chaos Shuffle/whatever out the Skill Focus later.

    Not nearly as elegant, I admit, but it is another way of going about it if you don't want to be human for whatever reason.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    snip
    Let's drive the conversation away from current builds, even questionable elements, when not judging if we could.
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  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    I have checked the builds and no-one has added this but I was wondering if it was allowed in future:

    Serenity switches Paladin abilities to work of Wisdom rather than Charisma and is wildly used on these boards even I think with those who say no Dragon magazine yet this feat is Dragon magazine. Would it be allowed in future?

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    ...ok, I had 8 of these done. I saved it, opened my browser, and my comp crashed.

    Bring the word file back up, and everything in the file is a square. Literally, just a long line of hundreds of squares.

    Anyone here know if it is recoverable?

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by cd4 View Post
    I have checked the builds and no-one has added this but I was wondering if it was allowed in future:

    Serenity switches Paladin abilities to work of Wisdom rather than Charisma and is wildly used on these boards even I think with those who say no Dragon magazine yet this feat is Dragon magazine. Would it be allowed in future?
    Serenity was reprinted in the Dragon Compendium, which is an allowed source. Individual issues of Dragon or Dungeon, however, are not.
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  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    ...ok, I had 8 of these done. I saved it, opened my browser, and my comp crashed.

    Bring the word file back up, and everything in the file is a square. Literally, just a long line of hundreds of squares.

    Anyone here know if it is recoverable?
    Ugh, this is why I hate word.

    EDIT: Found some useful references for this. Try these first: Recover file and recover corrupted document

    I recommend trying to open the document in wordpad, open office, and a hex editor in that order. Unless someone here knows a good deal about tho word doc file format?

    Also, which version of word? That could be important.
    Last edited by kestrel404; 2010-10-10 at 01:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Sorry, meant WordPad, not Word.

    Think any of those suggestions will still work?

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Try to open it in NotePad? Sometimes you'll see salvageable text.
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  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    If you want me to try, you can email me the file you have (my username at yahoo) and I'll see what I can do. No promises but if it's just bit-shifted a good hex editor can fix that.

  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    ION, I should have my judging done by tomorrow. I forgot my USB key today, but I can probably make up for it and get the last 3-4 done and combine them tomorrow for posting.
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  29. - Top - End - #209
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by kestrel404 View Post
    If you want me to try, you can email me the file you have (my username at yahoo) and I'll see what I can do. No promises but if it's just bit-shifted a good hex editor can fix that.
    Awesome, 'tis sent.

  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubious Pie View Post
    Dolgan:
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    Originality: 4.5 (I love its concept, but unless it is perfect, and I mean perfect, it does not get a 5.)
    Power: 3.5 (It does have a lot of defensive and offensive power, but melee is melee.)
    Elegance: 2 (The backstory just feels quickly put together.)
    Use of Special Ingredient: 4.5 (War Mind is very important to this build. Well done!)

    More to be edited in.
    I realize this is late, but I would probably argue a bit about giving a lower score for the build being melee. War Mind is a melee focused prestige class. I think you can give bonus points if people can make it elegantly work as something else, but I don't think people just be penalized for using the class as it was written to be used. Likewise, I again think that power should be ranked by type. If someone built a melee character, don't compare it to a similar level caster, compare it to other melee builds.

    Then again, that's just my two cents, and you're of course welcome to judge however you see fit.
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