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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    So, I recently discovered Gestalt, and have since been going crazy imagining all the combinations you could do. So I ask you, citizens of this forum, what are some amazing class combinations for this amazing variant?

    Personally, I am definitely liking Monk/Dragon Shaman.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    That would be even more MAD than the Monk already is, because you'd also need Charisma for the Shaman's healing ability.

    The best gestalt combinations usually
    1. use the same abilities to avoid MAD
    2. support the other class in some way
    3. allow the character to fill two roles effective
    AND, if possible:
    4. fit fluff-wise
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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Right now I'm amused by the idea of a:
    Dragonborn Dragonfire Adept 20//Dragon Shaman 5/Dragon Devotee 5/Dragon Disciple 10

    If you take a bunch of dragon-related feats, you can be more dragony than a dragon. Also, 4 breath weapons!

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Monk/Druid is loads of fun. Especially if the DM lets you ignore the druid alignment restrictions and slap Vow of Poverty on top of it.

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Ranger/Scout//Sorcerer/Swiftblade
    ^ Trust me, really fun.

    If you are allowed to use Pathfinder material, a straight PFRogue//PFPaladin is real good fun.

    And of course, martial initiators, factotums, rogues and similar are really fun to use in gestalt.
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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    I like scout/warlock, personally. Especially if you take the Fell Flight invocation and the Flyby Attack feat--you can fly down, zap with a skirmish-powered eldritch blast (14d6 at 20th level), then fly back out of reach. Plus, you have a lot of special defenses: evasion, uncanny dodge, damage reduction, energy resistance, a little fast healing, and at the highest levels, permanent freedom of movement.

    Of course, you could go rogue/warlock, too. What rogue wouldn't like the ability to use Greater Invisibility at will?
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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverLeaf167 View Post
    That would be even more MAD than the Monk already is, because you'd also need Charisma for the Shaman's healing ability.

    The best gestalt combinations usually
    1. use the same abilities to avoid MAD
    2. support the other class in some way
    3. allow the character to fill two roles effective
    AND, if possible:
    4. fit fluff-wise
    forgive my lack of brain function, but what is MAD?

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    Mongoose87's Avatar

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Quote Originally Posted by VarianArdell View Post
    forgive my lack of brain function, but what is MAD?
    Multi-Attribute Dependency. It kills, son.
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    Roc Ness's Avatar

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose87 View Post
    Multi-Attribute Dependency. It kills, son.
    If you didn't understand that, MAD means your character depends too much on different stats. The Monk is MAD because it needs a 4 abilities scores to be effective (Str, Con, Dex, Wis). The Sorcerer isn't MAD because it only really needs one ability score (Cha).

    Also, in case it comes up, SAD is single attribute dependency, the opposite of MAD. Examples of SAD would include the Sorcerer, like before.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Archivist//Wizard is a classic.

    So is the Paladin//Ranger/Beastmaster Supermount.

    Egoist Psion//anything is fun at high levels. Take the Leadership feat and regularly use Fusion with your cohort to become a quadruple gestalt.

    A gestalt War Hulk is ridiculous.

    Something with more than 20d6 sneak attack could be fun.

    Stoneblessed is good for gestalt builds too. You can qualify for it by level 3 and use it to get race/class combos that really shouldn't happen.

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Beguiler//Warblade or Beguiler//Crusader.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Truenamer/Samurai

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrono22 View Post
    Monk/Druid is loads of fun. Especially if the DM lets you ignore the druid alignment restrictions and slap Vow of Poverty on top of it.
    And if he doesn't, replace Monk with Ninja (Complete Adventurer), for much the same effect, and some nifty Wis-powered abilities.

    As for the OP....

    If you're looking for power, a few Guidelines:
    1) Think in terms of Active/Passive combinations, remembering the action economy. You still only have so many actions per round - Sure, the Wizard//Cleric looks good on paper, but in play, you've got a problem: in combat, you get one standard, one swift, and one move action - and that's it. You'll have a bit longer of a duration before you run dry of spells... but you don't actually gain much in practice. Meanwhile, the Paladin//Sorcerer is getting Charisma to Saves, a d10 hit die, and a few Paladin immunities, while the Sorcerer is blasting away with spells.
    2) Be aware of power curves, and pair up classes such that you'll be quite useful at all levels. At 2nd level, melee classes such as the Paladin, Barbarian, and Fighter are fairly high on the food chain; at 19th level, full casters such as the Wizard, Cleric, Druid, and Sorcerer tend to rule the roost. Skillmonkeys are quite useful at all levels. For growth later on, one side needs to be a full caster, but don't neglect the short-term strengths of the melee-centric classes, either.
    3) Avoid MAD, look for SAD. This has always been one of the big problems with Paladins and Monks, but it gets worse in Gestalt. The Cleric//Wizard has a problem: To be effective, he needs a high Int (Arcane spells), a high Wis (Divine spells), a high Con (as he has a small hit die), and a high Dex (he can't use armor due to the Wizard side, so he needs this for AC). That's a problem, as you've only got so many good rolls/points to distribute, and only have so much cash for buying stat boosters. Instead, look for things where one side mitigates the other's requirements, and classes where they have the same primary ability. That Druid//Monk is actually rather decent - Druidic Wildshape reduces the need for Strength and Dex, by a lot, and both have Wisdom as a primary ability (it also fits well under 1 and 2 - Wildshape is effectively passive due to the duration, Most Monk abilities are effectively passive, spells are active).
    4) Look for things that complement each other well, and avoid features that conflict with each other. Some things play very, very well together. The Wizard is Int-based, and has nifty, full-casting abilities. At 8th, the Factotum gets an ability which permits additional actions a few times per encounter, based on Int. A Factotum//Wizard can do a PAINFUL amount of blasting, and pretty much slaughter encounters. Synergy: Combining multiple things for very great effect. On the other side of that, you have such things as a Fighter's Heavy Armor Proficiency, and a Wizard's Arcane Spell Failure. If you're making use of the Fighter's Armor, you're not making use of the Wizard's better spells. The two class features conflict with each other - you normally want to avoid that.
    5) Check your DM's multiclassing rules and permissable sources. There's a lot of classes that are front-loaded, and will give you most of what you want with just a two-level dip, or a three level dip. That Sorcerer-X//Fighter-2/Paladin-2/Monk-2/Pious Templar-1 (PrC, complete divine), taking Ascetic Mage (Feat, Complete Adventurer), gets Charisma-based casting, Charsiama to saves, Charisma to AC, Evasion, and Mettle. Lots of passive defenses based around his 'primary' class (Sorcerer). However, it's a rather diptastic build. Many DM's will object. Strenuously. Amusingly, if you're human, it doesn't invoke the multi-classing XP penalty, regardless of whether or not you pick up one or two level dips in other classes laster - as you've only got one class that's not within one level of every other class in the build.
    6) Check with your DM on how he handles LA/RHD. This is not addressed in the gestalt rules. The most common assumption is that LA and RHD go parallel with class levels on the other side - which means your Phrenic-2/Half-Fey-2/Half-Dragon-3/Paladin-2/Monk-2/Pious Templar-1//Sorcerer-12 now really kicks rear (+10 racial bonus to Charisma, Charisma-based spellcasting, Charisma to saves, Charisma to AC, Evasion, Mettle, and a VERY LARGE number of spell-like abilities... based on Charisma).
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    how about a Wizard/Mystic Theurge//Archivist/Factotum?
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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Gnome Rogue/Barbarian (Warning: DM may be inclined to throw books)

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Psion//Factotum

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    What does "nova" mean again?
    In game terms, of course.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Androgeus View Post
    how about a Wizard/Mystic Theurge//Archivist/Factotum?
    You can't use double progression PrCs in Gestalt - for a good reason too.
    Quote Originally Posted by ranagrande View Post
    Archivist//Wizard is a classic.

    (...)
    I'd rather go with Psion//Wizard for all the Temporal Acceleration, Synchronity and Schism goodness. If a really need the divine spells, I'd just take levels in Rainbow Servant (that was the one I guess).

    Apart from that, Psion//Factotum would have ludicrous ammount of actions per round. I also like the idea of gestalting a Shadowcraft Mage with a Spy Master and other stealth based classes for an ultimate spy build.

    edit: go "nova" means to unleash your most earth-shattering spells/powers/abilities in a short period of time - more often then not in one round. You use up a hefty ammount of daily reasources, but your enemies are vaporised thrice-over.
    Last edited by Radar; 2010-10-01 at 08:30 AM.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverLeaf167 View Post
    What does "nova" mean again?
    In game terms, of course.
    Dumping all your potential in a small time.

    A psion has a lot of potential (powerpoints). Add to that Schism + Factotum extra actions, and you're likely going to be able to unleash all your PPs in a single round (or 2, at most). Ka-boom.

    Also, at some time, I had a Warmage/Rainbow Servant/Geomancer//Paladin/Someotherstuff(probably binder, not sure) build planned. It could cast spontaneously from the Cleric spell list as a swift action.
    Last edited by Eloel; 2010-10-01 at 08:31 AM.
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    Clearly the Spanish won in the end through DM fiat. (How else could that NPC octopus have predicted all games correctly?)
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    I always liked the idea of a beguiler/swashbuckler, not optimized but fun as hell. Indiana Jones with magic!

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    (Pathfinder) Changeling Psychic Warrior 20 // Incarnate 20
    Pathfinder's Psychic warrior is 3.5 + paths that grant a maneuver and a trance, some skill bonuses and a super sayajin mode capstone. Resilient to low-wealth settings and situations. Stat synergy lets you max con and str, with 16 wis for the caster side. Evil incarnates synergyze particularly well.
    Many soulmelds cover for stuff the psychic warrior uses powers for, leaving more space for the Psy to use the more potent short-lived powers. The improved BAB really shows for the incarnate.

    Aeshkrau Illumian Fighter 6/SuelArcanamach 4/Spellsword 5/AbjurantChampion 5// Warblade 20
    Max str, cha 15, int and con as you see fit. Fighter can be replaced with anything really, but the feat goodies are...good. Focusing on self buffs and no-save stuff lets you "almost dump" cha in favor of str with the Aeshkrau word. The end result is a capable melee combatant (warblade!) with access to several excellent melee buffs, empowered spells. May have to forgo swiftened abjurations every now and then because of boosts, counters and stance shifts.

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    You can't use double progression PrCs in Gestalt - for a good reason too.
    To be fair, it's only "recommended".

    The recommendation I use, instead, is that each side needs to be capable of qualifying for its PrCs separately.

    "Wiz3/MT# // Cleric3/???#" wouldn't work, because there's insufficient spellcasting on the left side.

    "Wiz3/Cleric3/MT# // Cleric3/Wiz3/???#" would work though, and get full spellcasting, at the price of delayed entry.
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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    A build I'd like to try out would be Bard 20 // Fighter 2 / Paladin of Slaughter 3 / Dragon Disciple 10 / Barbarian 5

    He would melee with a spiked chain and devote most of his feats to that end. Bard spells would mostly be deception and divination based for furthering his chaotic evil schemes. I mostly like it becuase it makes use of dragon disciple, which is a class that it utterly useless outside of gestalt, but completely viable within gestalt. He ends with +20 BAB, +19 Fort, +15 Ref, +19 Will and Cha to saves. He would be kind of MAD, though half-dragon from DD helps with that.
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Warlock14/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster3//Binder 18/any class 2*. lots of fun.

    *Decide which class features you want. Fighter feats, Wizard utility spells,etc.
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    If you are really attached to wizard+armored class, still spell everything is potentially viable & spellsword suddenly looks fairly attractive since you can (depending on how your DM handles it) stack the every other level caster progression with something else that gives every other level progression.

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    You can't use double progression PrCs in Gestalt - for a good reason too.
    meh, it does says they should be prohibited, but that leaves it up to the DM so I'm still allowed to wish
    I'd always say you can only gain one level of spell casting for each class at each level
    Last edited by Androgeus; 2010-10-01 at 09:32 AM.
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Quote Originally Posted by thompur View Post
    *Decide which class features you want. Fighter feats, Wizard utility spells,etc.
    That actually sounds like a build idea.
    Factotum/Chameleon//Binder

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Totemist//Druid, going into Soul Eater.

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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Rogue (or factotum)//incarnate.

    Duskblade//rogue1/wiz4/Unseen Seer/Arcane Trickster.

    Bard9/Virtuoso1/Sublime Chord2/Virtuoso8//Barbarian/Rage Mage.

    Cleric//Swordsage.
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    Default Re: Amazing Gestalt combinations!

    Rogue/Swashbuckler//Warblade

    You need some physical scores, but the Int synergy is awesome.

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