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  1. - Top - End - #301
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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    So it looks like we need 4 more archons to fill the slots, if Wardens are going to Lunia/Mercuria. Ideas, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Between Mercuria and Venya: ?

    On Solania: No Archon really says "Asceticism" to me.

    Between Solania and Mertion: ?

    Jovar: Warden Archons are a good fit for Sealtiel, but they also make good first line defenders on Lunia.
    As for the Lunia and Lunia/Outside archons, I'd actually prefer swapping those two. I think lantern archons would fit better as the Lunia/Outside ones because (A) they're the first summonable archon, with SM IV, and (B) they have the whole petitioner thing going on, while the trumpet archons would "herald" creatures' (and souls' and petitioners') arrival in Celestia and the start of their ascent up the mountain. (Plus, trumpet archons make a better first line of defense. ) Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    A Psionic archon is an interesting idea, at least. It fits asceticism well, and yet I'm not aware of any other psionic outsider. It clashes a little with the theme normally given to them, and yet seems a good idea.
    The CPsi archon is called the sybillic guardian, and has little to no psionic flavor (just a few psi-like abilities and no unique capabilities; another ****ing "Psionic X" from WotC ). It's not worth including.

    As for the hammer archons, I was planning to have them as one of the variation on the sword archon.
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  2. - Top - End - #302
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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    It's interesting- but I think the Gates of Heaven project would probably work best if it falls somewhere between it, and the existing BoED material.

    I like the names and concepts of the existing Celestial Hebdomad.

    That said, the Dicefreaks rules mechanics, for divinities, and beings that work in a similar fashion (cosmic ranks rather than divine ranks) could be worth pinching, in order to make "The Gates of Heaven" have a similar (though not identical) "feel" to The Gates of Hell.
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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Some sort of monk archon maybe? could use the VOP rules.
    Last edited by blackjack217; 2010-11-03 at 06:23 PM.


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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    You don't even really need to use VoP, after all, you can just give a monster the appropriate boni to all scores and say that it doesn't use items.

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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    The CPsi archon is called the sybillic guardian, and has little to no psionic flavor (just a few psi-like abilities and no unique capabilities; .... It's not worth including.
    Maybe with a bit of refluffing and a lot of restatting it might be an adequate caster monster? Possibly representing the Ascetic?

    Alternatively, the Word Archon (again with the abilities being adjusted some) could fill that role.
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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    True, but VOP provides a useful framework.


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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Maybe with a bit of refluffing and a lot of restatting it might be an adequate caster monster? Possibly representing the Ascetic?

    Alternatively, the Word Archon (again with the abilities being adjusted some) could fill that role.
    I would suggest the Word Archon for a mix of Shock and Awe caster, via the Word Spells and Diviner, for Earathol, and a psionic or monk archon for Phistis Sophia. If we have 14 archons, surely two of them can be casters.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2010-11-03 at 06:27 PM.

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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    I would suggest the Word Archon for a mix of Shock and Awe caster, via the Word Spells and Diviner, for Earathol, and a psionic or monk archon for Phistis Sophia. If we have 14 archons, surely two of them can be casters.
    Agreed in entirety. Does anyone have ascess to the Word archon and others?


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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    I like the notion of at least one psionic archon- for Pistis Sophia.

    Could be slightly monk-ish in flavour as well- maybe like an unarmed psychic warrior?

    The name "sibyllic guardian" sounds more like it would fit with the Erathol the Seer though- what with sibyls being seers in Greek mythology.
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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    I do have the Tome of Magic. The word Archon, here, is challenge rating 9, with 10 HD. It seems more geared towards combat, really, with high strength, constitution and intelligence. Apparently, their job is protecting "concepts", by making sure words are not abused. Their picture is boring: making them seem humans (not even weird humanoids) with wings. Yawn. Why can't we have AD&D pictures back. They have a few utterances and standard archon abilities.

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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    I do have the Tome of Magic. The word Archon, here, is challenge rating 9, with 10 HD. It seems more geared towards combat, really, with high strength, constitution and intelligence. Apparently, their job is protecting "concepts", by making sure words are not abused. Their picture is boring: making them seem humans (not even weird humanoids) with wings. Yawn. Why can't we have AD&D pictures back. They have a few utterances and standard archon abilities.
    Would it be a good idea to rename the word archon? It sounds a bit generic at present.
    How about the logos archon?
    To see the world in a grain of sand
    and Heaven in a wild flower
    To hold infinity in the palm of your hand
    and eternity in an hour.

    - William Blake, Auguries of Innocence

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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Amiel View Post
    Would it be a good idea to rename the word archon? It sounds a bit generic at present.
    How about the logos archon?
    My plan was to leave it as word archon (since all the others have fairly generic names: trumpet, lantern, hound, etc.) and give the variations more interesting names. Coincidentally enough, I was actually thinking of doing logos, pathos, and ethos versions--logos getting utterances, pathos getting power words, and ethos getting the holy word/castigation/righteous wrath-type effects, in addition to whatever abilities they share.
    Better to DM in Baator than play in Celestia
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    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    The Authority is mostly done for what it's worth; the only major component not finished is the Martial Adept variant. The Principality has received some minor edits, but I haven't gotten around to a hook or sample NPC yet.

    Also, thoughts on expanding to Fax Celestis' new Competitor Forums? It could work as a place to keep most of the behind the scenes stuff and discussion so as not to clog up this forum, with the major things on both sites.
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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    I've added a few minor things to Lunia today, but I'd appreciate a little more feedback, and perhaps a few ideas from other people. I'm currently thinking over Nemmiron, which I'll probably write up next. As by RipvanWormer's excellent suggestion, I'll be making it a little quasi-babylonian and dragon-themed.

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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    I've added a few minor things to Lunia today, but I'd appreciate a little more feedback, and perhaps a few ideas from other people. I'm currently thinking over Nemmiron, which I'll probably write up next. As by RipvanWormer's excellent suggestion, I'll be making it a little quasi-babylonian and dragon-themed.
    Where can I read what you've done?

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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Right over here.

    Most of it's rewritten from other sources, really.

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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Okay, folks. It's good to see some veteran Freaks here, the help will definitely go a long way. Now, on that note, we've got a pretty sizeable hole that needs to be filled up. We've got our Hebdomad, and we've got the High Caste Archons. But we don't have any Powers. Remember, these guys are the good equivalent of the Dukes of Hell. They play a pretty big role in Heaven, and we have -nothing- on them. Zilch. Nada. But-kiss. So, I say we need to start throwing some stuff around for them. Names, concepts, roles, etc. Are we in accordance?
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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Baalzebul is a fallen archon right? Presumably he had friends and such before he fell, we could make a power out of that.


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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Not really, they all fell with him by most accounts. In any event, some ideas for Powers:
    Lieutenants for each of the Hebdomad
    Leaders of the High Castes or even the lesser castes
    The leaders of various important settlements
    Important emmisaries to other planes
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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Then we could make the person who exposed his nastiness, as a way of tying them into existing lore.


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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Well, my original concept had him as the former head of the Dominions; so it would make sense for the current head to be an old acquaintance of his. Probably the same with the Virtues and Belial or the Authorities and Eblis. In fact, I might just do some tweaks to my Sandalphon and make him into the current head of the Authorities. Will that work?

    Also, with the way my High Castes are set up, the Powers are probably going to end up more powerful than Dukes.
    Last edited by Iamyourking; 2010-11-05 at 02:46 PM.
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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Would that mean that pretty much every caste leader fell? That sounds, well, a little unlikely, given that they are supposed to be some of the most archon-y archons.

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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    3 out of 5, which I suppose is a bit much. Still, Gates of Hell claims that Beelzebub and Eblis were Seraphim and Belial was a Kerub who turned down promotion to Seraph multiple times; so there is some precedent for them being some of the highest of the high. Perhaps Belial could be bumped down a bit; but I think that for the Great Fall to really have meaning Eblis and Beelzebub should have been some of the most powerful Archons, especially seeing as how they are an Arch-Devil and Lord of the Nine respectively at the moment and shouldn't have been too much weaker than the Hebdomad when they were still loyal.
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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Iamyourking View Post
    Perhaps Belial could be bumped down a bit; but I think that for the Great Fall to really have meaning Eblis and Beelzebub should have been some of the most powerful Archons, especially seeing as how they are an Arch-Devil and Lord of the Nine respectively at the moment and shouldn't have been too much weaker than the Hebdomad when they were still loyal.
    In case it matters, Eblis was a solar, not an archon. Same with Beelzebub. Belial was a planetar.

    Eblis was one of the three greatest solars, alongside Metatron and Sandalphon.

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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    does not stop them from being found out by an archon
    Last edited by blackjack217; 2010-11-05 at 03:58 PM.


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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    As it says: "Angels". Archons ain't angels.

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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Still, I think that making those three Archons wouldn't hurt; although I'm of the opinion that Celestia's hierarchy should include both LG Angels and Archons, as I hardly think the Archons would discriminate against their fellow LG celestials.
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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Alright folks, I gave you all weekend to get the juices flowing. Back at the grind! Back at the grind! Where there's a whip there's a way! Alright, you've got a deadline. Eldan, King, Jack; I want to see three concepts for Powers by Wednesday. From each of you. Nothin' fancy. Just a name and a title at the absolute bare minimum. Anything beyond that is on your own. And if anyone else wants to kick in, start moving! It's November, but soon it'll be the Christmas season, and they ain't singin' "Mercane We Have Heard on High", now are they, cutters? Sometimes they sing about Mi-Go, though. That's always a little worrying.
    Last edited by The Tygre; 2010-11-08 at 08:46 PM.
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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Very well, you shall have your Powers.

    Azrael, the Prince of Power: The strongest Archon in the Heavens, Azrael is veteran of the armies of Celestia who became the personal champion of Raziel and a patron to strength after a brief stint in the Authorities and credited wins over several notable Demons. He fought alongside Raziel in the Great Fall and fought Eblis in single combat; notably managing to survive the encounter. Unique among the more martial archons, he scorns weapons and trusts only the immense strength of his body to bring him victory; an eccentricity that is accepted by Raziel due to the fact that weapons have to be custom made for him and have a tendency to break when he uses them.

    Jophiel, Exarch of the Principalities: A humble Archon, Jophiel has been asked repeatedly to rise to the Dominions or even represent Lunia in the council of Crowns but has turned down the position every time; citing that although he would be happy to serve, his sense of duty prevents him from abandoning the mortals that he has helped so much. Similarly, he refuses to command his fellow Principalities and only took the title of Exarch out of a personal request from his former overseer, now representing Mercuria in the Council. He instead continues on as he always has, helping mortal civilizations towards the path of Law and Good and searching for the influence of the dark Principalities.

    Melchizedek, the High Judge: Personally appointed by Zaphkiel after a distinguished career that included long terms of service in the Dominions, a seat on the Council for Jovar, and work as a top aide of multiple members of the Hebdomad, Melchizedek presides over the 21 members of the Council of Crowns and is considered to be the greatest of the Powers. In the council chamber, he is the last word on rulings when it comes to the policies of Celestia and can be overriden only by a unanimous vote of the Thrones, a four-sixths majority of the Hebdomad, or a direct decree from Zaphkiel; the abscence of such being considered a good indicator of the quality of his service. His further duties including opening and closing the legislative sessions of the Council, officially proposing new decrees to be put to the vote, and serving as the official spokesman and representative of the Council to both the Hebdomad and Celestia at large.

    Thoughts? Azrael is pretty obviously a reflavored Sandalphon, but I figure there's no point in putting the statblock to waste.
    Last edited by Iamyourking; 2010-11-09 at 12:27 AM.
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    Default Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

    Powers... gorramit. I'm bad at those. Okay. (I haven't seen that Mi-Go one... I thought I had seen all the Lovecraft carrols). Anyway, these are all associated with Lunia. I'm pretty sure people will recognize one of them


    Melichior the Awakener, Warden of the Amber Gate

    Between the layers of Lunia and Mercuria stand the Amber Gates, first and mightiest of the Archon's fortifications. While mortals ascending to the higher layers are expected to find one of the paths of virtue and follow it, the archons are pragmatic enough that not all traffic between layers can be expected to take these long and strenuous paths of self-discovery. The Amber gates serve as a way to control trade traffic. The titular gates are massive, gem-studded and always closed, save for when the host of archons rides out in force.
    Meilchiors duty is overseeing the gate and it's defence: he controls a force of sword and warden archons patrolling the walls, and Owl archons whose duty it is to scan all incoming travellers and ask their intention.
    Melichior himself appears with the body of a muscular man with the head of a lion and the wings of an eagle, all shimmering in the colour of bronze, holding a halberd in one hand and a key in the other. He is stern and humourless, disapproving of any mortal taking the easy way into Celestia instead of proving their virtue, but grudgingly accepting the necessity, and never obsessing about bureaucratic detail. Still, he spends most of his time in his war room, playing through endless fiendish attacks in his head and on gigantic models of lunia with his sword archon generals, and rarely shows himself to mortals.

    Radiant Sachiel

    This Power is the ruler of the city of Haven on Lunia, and overseer of all commercial endeavors the Archons have with other races, be they outsiders from the other upper planes, Moradin's dwarven petitioners or mortals. Appearing as a seven foot tall human male with silver skin and an impressive, white beard, the always smiling Sachiel is a shrewd, if honest, businessman. He is charged with supplying the Host of the Archons with the high-quality weapons and armour forged by the dwarves or imported from Bytopia, supplying them with magic items from all over the planes and with equipping the order of the planes militant, the mortal arm of the Celestial Host.


    Duma the Serene, Archon of Silence, Bearer of the Keys

    Appearing as a man in a simple, white robe, with a key around his neck, Duma has a dangerous, but necessary job amongst the Archons: he is their envoy to Perdition.
    As by a small, but important, clause in the Pact Primeval, Celestia is allowed to send a single envoy of their choice to Baator, to oversee the operations and maintain diplomatic connections. Of course, despite their common goals in the blood war, the relationship between Baatezu and Archons is, at the best of times, murderous, and there is not a single Baatezu who would not rather see Duma dead, if it were not for the fact that they are contractually obligated not to harm him. Instead, the Archdevils send a constant stream of tempters and temptations after Duma, trying to take him over for their side.
    Still, the Archon of Silence bears his duty without complaint. It was his appointment since the time when the first Archons fell, and he has never given in to the constant temptations of Hell. Instead, he visits all Erinnyes and fallen Archons in turn, reminding them, without condemning them, of what they have given up for the power of hell.
    He never speaks, being the Archon of Silence, instead being a master of relying meaning solely through body language and facial expressions.

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