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2011-03-09, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- Imperial Secret
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
I've got the Celestial Warlock, the High Castes, the Greyhound, the Phalanx, and the initial work on Barachiel; I've been meaning to collect some more but my computer died yesterday and it won't be fixed for a few weeks.
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2011-03-14, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- The Serpent's Throne
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
If you could give me a link I can star compiling them up, and digging around for anything else might be pertinent. I'm thinking of adding the Archon hierarchy cooked up here to the index, considering how much we use it.
Also; SPRING BREEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAK!
Ahem. Sorry. Had to get that out of my system.SpoilerMy Characters
According to this test, I am a LN Half-Orc Cleric, Lvl.2.
"And in the layer of the Deep Ones, we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever." - H.P. Lovecraft
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2011-03-19, 04:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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- The Serpent's Throne
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Okay. Okay. They've plopped us into a sub-forum. No reason to panic. I'm sure we'll receive *twitch* just as much *twitch* traffic as we did before. *twitch* Aint't that *twitch* sweet? *twitch twitch*
SpoilerMy Characters
According to this test, I am a LN Half-Orc Cleric, Lvl.2.
"And in the layer of the Deep Ones, we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever." - H.P. Lovecraft
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2011-03-19, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
I'm sure its nothing to worry about.
Extended Homebrew Signature
Let's Read the Monster Manual II!
Dwarf Cleric avatar by azuyomi244. Thanks!
Saurial Soulknife avatar by Serpentine. Thanks!
Warforged Fighter Avatar by C-Lam. Thanks!
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2011-03-19, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Traffic? What traffic?
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2011-03-19, 06:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
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- Greensboro NC, USA
- Gender
Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
I come here fairly often...does that count for anything?
Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, unless you brought someone bigger and tastier along with you.
Spoiler
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2011-03-20, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Gender
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2011-03-20, 10:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
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- The Serpent's Throne
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Eh, I guess I'm just worrying over nothing. I don't like change!
Anyway, I hope you all had, are having, or are going to have a good spring break, but back on topic. I was perusin' through my PF Bestiary 2 when I came to the archons. I noticed they had one I hadn't seen before and was, in fact, brand new. It's the Star Archon (I am obscenely tempted to shorten it down to StArchon), and you can find them on the PF wiki here.
So, new kid on the block. Thoughts? Opinions? Ideas? Witch hunts?SpoilerMy Characters
According to this test, I am a LN Half-Orc Cleric, Lvl.2.
"And in the layer of the Deep Ones, we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever." - H.P. Lovecraft
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2011-03-20, 10:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
- Location
- Minneapolis
- Gender
Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
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2011-03-21, 03:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
It doesn't seem that interesting to me.
I mean, it has all the standard archon stuff and a single unique ability. That one is nice, but otherwise? Not much to talk about. Yet another flying cleric. Could just as easily be a variant of an existing one.Last edited by Eldan; 2011-03-21 at 03:40 AM.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2011-03-21, 08:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
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- Minneapolis
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Actually, now that you mention it, it does seem like it would be a good Lantern Archon variant, but a more higher powered Lantern Archon. They both have themes of light (Albeit the Star Archon with starlight and the Lantern Archon with every other kind), so it could be reflavored to just be a higher powered Lantern Archon.
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2011-03-21, 08:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
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- The Serpent's Throne
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Or what happens when a bunch of lanterns combine. Kind of like some kind of lantern archon magneton. But maybe it's just an opportunity to make it more interesting. That's what we're here for, right? I've been perusing the Immortal's Handbook, so bear with me if this sounds a little Star-Dragon-ey, but maybe there are variants for the life-cycles of stars? White dwarf archons, supernova archons, black hole archons, etc.
SpoilerMy Characters
According to this test, I am a LN Half-Orc Cleric, Lvl.2.
"And in the layer of the Deep Ones, we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever." - H.P. Lovecraft
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2011-03-21, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Switzerland
- Gender
Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Now it begins to sound like one of those high-power epic things someone has been developing earlier.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2011-03-21, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- Minneapolis
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
It doesn't have to be. Just make then all around CR 20. Don't ever go into epic, they could work.
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2011-03-21, 09:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
I thought the plan was for the seven non-epic archons of the classical hierarchy, and seven more epic ones.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2011-03-21, 09:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- Minneapolis
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
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2011-03-21, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Epic is, really, a foreign and esoteric field to me. I don't really understand it, but it's nice to look at.
So, don't ask me. But "Star" and then such words as "Nova" and "Black Hole" scream "epic" to me.
I wouldn't do "Black Hole", though. That doesn't seem to fit the flavour. They don't show up in classical astronomy, either.Resident Vancian Apologist
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2011-03-21, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
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- Minneapolis
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Very true.
A black hole would most likely be the opposite of an Archon, being a star who has completely collapsed. So, more like an epic Demon/Devil/Evil outsider.
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2011-03-21, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
I like that idea. The Black Hole devil, a new variant of fallen Archon.
Which reminds me. I've wanted to create an Asura template for a while, to create a bit more variety among fallen archons.Resident Vancian Apologist
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2011-03-21, 11:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- Imperial Secret
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
My computer is now fixed; you may expect further contributions from me starting soon.
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2011-03-22, 07:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
The greatest shame of Celestia, one of the Fallen Uniques, who fell from Celestia all the way into the pits of the Abyss, still waging war against the evils of Hell even as he lost his own moral superiority, risking everything in an attempt to end the threat of Baator.
<<
>>
Sorry, I just got hit upside the head with inspiration and threw that out there.
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2011-03-22, 08:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
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- The Serpent's Throne
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Did somebody say Apollyon?
...
OK, so that version's an aasimon. But the principle has always stuck with me, and I remembered him as an archon for the longest time before he was actually dug up again. I fell in love with the notion. Think about it; an archon that falls so hard, so far, they shoot through the Great Wheel and wind up in the Abyss. The light of Law can't even be seen anymore. Even Baator is now a distant memory, an anathema landmark left behind millenia ago. This is not the slow 'descent' of Chaos, of becoming an asura. What could be so evil that an archon falls all the way to the Abyss?SpoilerMy Characters
According to this test, I am a LN Half-Orc Cleric, Lvl.2.
"And in the layer of the Deep Ones, we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever." - H.P. Lovecraft
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2011-03-22, 09:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Reckless slaughter of innocents in the pursuit of evil, because they are in the way?
Last edited by Eldan; 2011-03-22 at 09:26 AM.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2011-03-22, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Precisely!
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2011-03-22, 09:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
And then the demons made him angry enough that now he defaults to killing anything he meets, on the off-chance that it might be evil?
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2011-03-22, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Of course!
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2011-03-24, 03:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- Imperial Secret
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
I've done some reformatting of the High Castes and want to get a fresh start with a new thread; especially so that the Dominion and Throne can still be up at the top. However, I'm not sure which of the forums to put it in; as I want both mechanical and story critiques for my work. Anyone know what the proper protocol for that would be?
As for Apollyon, I certainly like the idea although I swear he's already mentioned in Dicefreaks somewhere. Just as a small nitpick, he would hardly be alone in being a unique archon to fall; Eblis, Belial, Triel, and Semyaza were all extremely powerful and prestigious members of Celestia in their day.
Edit: Found it: "Eblis has nothing to do with demons and largely
ignores them unless they get in his way with the distinct exception of the demon prince, Apollyon. It is believed by many of the older beings in the Cosmos that Apollyon the Dark Angel is the First of the Fallen and that he was
cast out, at least in part, by Eblis. While the truth of this event is not a certainty, there is no doubt that Eblis harbors a great hatred for Apollyon and, if confronted with evidence of the Demon Prince of Destruction’s presence, will often postpone current plots in favor of destroying
ploys of the Dark Angel and his servants. Apollyon, for his part, seems to regard Eblis in the same fashion he regards other powerful entities: resigned loathing but nothing more. To date, though, Eblis has avoided any
direct conflict with the Dark Angel, who may well be strong enough to defeat – and destroy – Eblis in a second encounter." He's mentioned again in Semyaza's entry as falling so long ago that next to noone remembers that he used to be a Celestial, as an influence to Baalzebub who believed that all life was fundamentally flawed and need to be destroyed, and that his agents were behind the theft of a spying device planted by the Branch of Communication.
So we know that he fell a very long time ago, is now a Demon Prince (Which is the third highest rank in the Abyss; with Orcus, Demogorgon, and Grazz't holding the title of Demon Monarch and the throne of Demon Emperor currently empty) wants to destroy everything, and is strong enough to go toe to toe with Eblis; which would make him one of the strongest things in existence short of the Circle's avatars and the greatest gods. Furthermore, it raises a question as to why he's still a Demon Prince. If he's that strong, he could most likely defeat any of the Monarchs and become Emperor; which would certainly make it easier for him to destroy creation.Last edited by Iamyourking; 2011-03-24 at 03:55 AM.
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2011-03-24, 03:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
True, but it seems they all fell to Hell. I don't know a single one falling all the way across the wheel to the Abyss.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2011-03-24, 04:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- Imperial Secret
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
True, although I have seen mention of some fairly important ones falling to Hades and I'm sure that plenty of unimportant ones fell to the Abyss and were just never mentioned. I actually misread the initial suggestion and thought it was saying that he was the only unique Archon to fall; but I remain skeptical of claiming that he would be Celestia's greatest shame as:
1. Probably only Zaphkiel remembers he was ever an Archon in the first place
2. It doesn't sound like he actually does anything beyond sulk
3. Archons would probably consider Eblis or Baalzebub to be much more shameful as they stayed Lawful and would therefore be commiting much more evil (In their minds, I'm not arguing Chaos vs. Law again).
In all, it's an interesting idea that has some precedence; but I don't feel that it's worth following up on beyond perhaps a mention as the first Archon to fall or a note in Zaphkiel's history. We've got enough stuff to do, and while ideas are nice the people who have to give them statblocks and full histories don't generally appreciate having them pop up.
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2011-03-28, 02:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Behind you!
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon D20: A system designed for adventuring in a Pokemon Mystery Dungeon world.
The Review/Analysis Thread: In-depth reviews of various games and RPG products.
The New/Redone Monsters Thread: Taking bad or bland monsters and making them more interesting and challenging.
Yu-Gi-Oh!: Realms of Myth: In the world of monsters, Winda and Wynn go on an "epic" journey to find the legendary Dark Magician.
Keys to the Contract: A crossover between Madoka and Kingdom Hearts.