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  1. - Top - End - #631
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    First of all, thanks for the guide Saintheart.

    My campaign is in the ruins of Rhest right now, and so far my players seem to be really enjoying it.

    I've been running it in with Pathfinder rules, without really figuring out the world beyond the Elsir Vale. I preferred the feel that the Vale was on its own against the Hobgoblins, and there were no neighboring kingdoms to help.

    So far I've been finding that with my party of 5:
    Half-Dragon Monk (Switching to an Elf Paladin)
    Human Wizard
    Human Bard
    Elf Ranger
    Human Druid
    ...that generally have to make encounters EL 1 or 2 higher than the party level. This is generally a matter of adding a few monsters or adding a few hd to the dragons.

    The other thing I've had to do was initiate a houserule: that for anybody, a weapon automatically hits within its crit range (x3 and x4 treated as 19-20 and 18-20 for this purpose only), and not just on a nat 20. This allows the low level hobgoblins to hit my party members on something other than a natural 20. This will also let my party members hit the dragons later on, which will have ACs of around 40.

    My favorite thing, apart from playing D&D, is character creation, so I had fun rebuilding basically every NPC in RHOD for Pathfinder from the ground up. Here's the basics of what I did. Unless noted otherwise, the Red Hand troops are hobgoblins. Remember that Pathfinder calculates CR differently:

    Spoiler
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    Red Hand Regular (Fighter 2) CR 1
    Red Hand Veteran (Fighter-Phalanx Soldier 4) CR 3
    Red Hand Sergeant (Fighter-Tactician 5) CR 4
    Red Hand Bladebearer (Fighter-5 with PC wealth) CR 5
    Red Hand Cleric (Cleric 5) CR 4
    Red Hand Warpriest (Cleric 9) CR 8
    Red Hand Warmage{War Adept} (Sorcerer-Draconic Bloodline 7) CR 6
    Red Hand Warchanter {Mindbender} (Bard-Savage Skald 9) CR 8
    Red Hand Avenger {Doom Fist Monk} (Anti-Paladin 6) CR 5
    Goblin Worg Rider (Goblin Fighter-Dragoon 4) CR 3
    Blood Ghost Berserker (Bugbear Barbarian 4) CR 6
    Red Hand Brute (Ogre Barbarian 2) CR 5
    --------------------------------------------------
    Karlikan (Minotaur Barbarian 1) CR 5
    Skather (Bugbear Rogue 6/Assassin/3 with PC Wealth) CR 11
    Wyrmlord Koth (Bugbear Magus 7 with PC Wealth) CR 7
    Wyrmlord Saarvith (Ranger 11) CR 10
    Wyrmlord Ulwai Stormcaller (Bard-Thundercaller 11) CR 10
    Wyrmlord General Hravek Kharn (Oracle of Battle 12 with PC Wealth) CR 12
    High Wyrmlord Azarr Khul (Cleric 15 with PC Wealth) CR 15
    --------------------------------------------------
    Ozyrrandian (Young Green Dragon) CR 8
    Regiarix (Young Adult Black Dragon) CR 10
    Varanthian (Mature White Dragon) CR 11
    Abithriax (Adult Red Dragon) CR 14
    Tyrgaran (Mature Blue Dragon) CR 14
    Aspect of Tiamat (with extra HD) CR 15
    ---------------------------------------------------
    The Ghostlord (Lich Oracle of Bones 12 with PC wealth) CR 14


    One thing I'm concerned about is the issue of moving from part 4 to part 5. The handbook addresses issues with Part 5 being comparatively dull, but not really with the issue of why there is a part 5 at all. What I mean is the answering the big plot hole question: why didn't the horde stay camped at cinder hill another month to wait for their army from hell?

    One explanation I thought of was that Azarr Kull *was* at the battle, behind the scenes, but he fled back to his stronghold after the army was defeated. The diabolical army is plan B. This has three problems 1) it's less satisfying than if there was the grave threat as presented in the book 2) what if the PCs lose the Battle of Brindol 3) how does he get back to the the Fane and what if the PCs beat him there?

  2. - Top - End - #632
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    The first thing that comes to my mind as of why Azar Kul didn't wait for his hell army is because he hadn't pay for it. Devils are the personification of Lawful Evil, I don't think any of the Lords of the Nine (not even those allied with Tiamat) would simply "lend" their armies to a would-be conqueror. No they would probably demand a big payment. And the spoils from Brindoll would be the perfect way to cover that cost.
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  3. - Top - End - #633
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    Planetar

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Another handwavium solution a couple of people have come up with is that the price for the gate being opened isn't paid in gold, but blood. Whatever Azarr Kul's doing, it's not a standard Gate spell, and therefore what's required to open a permanent portal, or pervert the planes sufficiently to bring a horde of high level devils through, is to have a massive blood sacrifice dedicated to Tiamat. That's what the capture of Brindol is really about: the slaughter of everyone the Red Hand can lay its hands on. Once that's over, the price is paid and the portal can be opened.

    Trying to divine book-based reasons for it, I suspect the reason Azarr was "meant" to be opening the portal was to take on Dennovar with it. Brindol is the only really defensible point in Elsir Vale, but I think Azarr had in mind he'd have to leave a significant garrison behind to hold it. Dennovar has at least as many if not more troops than Brindol does, and it has the highest-level friendly caster in the Vale: Aragathos, a level 12 sorcerer (though you need to peruse the town's statblock to know he exists.) But this still has big problems narratively, so I'd say you're probably better off with a "price of passage" scenario of the kind Dusk or myself describe.

    Thanks very much for setting out what you did in Pathfinder - it's something the handbook is short on (and something I have to get round to fixing at the front of the thread.)

  4. - Top - End - #634
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    My players just split the party.

    My players are:
    Tiefling Knowledge/Thief based Factotum.
    Aasimar Summoning/Healing based Favored Soul of Boccob.
    Silverbrow Human Fear-based Hexblade/(modified)Avenging Exocutioner.
    Jaebrin Warlock
    Human TWF Duskblade

    We just finished part one of the adventure (which has been fantastic, and they like it a lot), but our Warlock's player has become focused on the concept of a Ghostlord, and feels it's very important to see him. Which is true, but not necessarily at the moment. So he and the Favored soul are splitting up from Drellin's Ferry to head south to find the Ghostlord's lair. The other 3 are heading north to try to bust the Blockade. Obviously they don't know that they'll get caught up in the Tiri Kitor business, and they think that they'll all be able to meet up in Brindol in about 2 weeks of game time.

    I'm a bit stuck as to what to do here. I might just try to scare off the ghostlord party, but that still takes a lot of time to get back together. It's currently Day 8, and they're incredibly worried about time (unnecessarily, as they've already destroyed Skull Gorge Bridge and got the Twistusks help. They're just fairly paranoid.) but I feel like they would force through it due to time. I'm open to a "TPK," but it would still kinda suck.

    I'm gonna send a DMPC along with each group, and I'm thinking about a Cleric/Ranger to help with the barricade and a Swashbuckler or Scout or Beguiller to help the Ghostlord group. I also have a good amount of wands available to them from "The Old One" at Drellin's ferry to help push them through. They're currently level 7.

    Any other advice? I'd hate for both groups to get wiped out, but I know that it might just be necessary.

  5. - Top - End - #635
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    ACSherman, unless you nerf the encounters from how challenging they're meant to be, your players shouldn't be able to do part 2 and 3 simultaneously with a split party. You're roadblocks group should be fine at least for a while. The ghostlord group might get wiped out by Varanthian though. I suggest you let the dice fall as they will, and see how soon the Ghostlord group figures out this isn't an appropriate encounter level. If they succeed against the hobgoblins and Varanthian, then they can encounter the Ghostlord and learn about the phylactery. If the Ghostlord group does get wiped out, an easy fix is to have their new characters join the party from Witchcross or the Tiri Kitor encampment.

    Saintheart, if you or anybody else wants more detailed information on what I did for my Pathfinder conversions, feel free to ask. I'm happy to share.

  6. - Top - End - #636
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    To piggyback on what Sir Cirdan said, you might just want to have each party make backup characters in advance, with a slight clue as to where they should be coming from. It's kind of a subtle push to the players, saying "I respect your choices, but I don't think your PCs are going to survive this and I'm not pulling punches to keep you alive."
    Mandible Bones, the Worst Pirate Ever.
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  7. - Top - End - #637
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Cirdan View Post
    ACSherman, unless you nerf the encounters from how challenging they're meant to be, your players shouldn't be able to do part 2 and 3 simultaneously with a split party. You're roadblocks group should be fine at least for a while. The ghostlord group might get wiped out by Varanthian though. I suggest you let the dice fall as they will, and see how soon the Ghostlord group figures out this isn't an appropriate encounter level. If they succeed against the hobgoblins and Varanthian, then they can encounter the Ghostlord and learn about the phylactery. If the Ghostlord group does get wiped out, an easy fix is to have their new characters join the party from Witchcross or the Tiri Kitor encampment.
    I sent them a message on facebook telling them essentially this. They also decided that they would pay some hirelings to help them along their way, so they're gonna get some small help in that regard. All in all, this is going to be interesting. I should've set up a campaign journal...

  8. - Top - End - #638
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    I'm sorry for interrupting the discussion, but I just want to say that this was the first adventure I've played in D&D 3.5 and I was the fortunate DM, also for the first time.
    This is an amazing campaign and If I could give any advice to people running it as DMs is : Have fun but be prepared to deal with PCs that sometimes don't know where to go. There were times I had to "reel them" into the right path, but it probably had to do with my friends' style of play.
    But it is really well written and with lots of advices from the authors, I had a blast and my friends still talk about it today. When it ended I gave a customized magic Item to each player, as a reward for saving Brindol, it was great :)

  9. - Top - End - #639
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by ACSherman View Post
    My players just split the party.
    Oh no they didn't.

  10. - Top - End - #640
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    I've been thinking a lot about the Ghostlord encounter, seeing as they'll get to the Thornwaste so soon (The three of them can fly for most of the journey, so I'm estimating them arriving at about day 12. The book says that the party is estimated to arrive there at around day 30, almost 3 weeks later. I might be overthinking this a bit, but I don't know much about how undead are created/how long it takes. Would Varanthian, Ulwei and the hobgoblins even be there by then? If not, would he have any bonedrinkers at all?

    I know my players are making a huge mistake by going after the Ghostlord so quickly, but I'd also like to be realistic about it and give them any benefit they might gain from their (stupid, irrational) head-start.

    Any ideas on how this may be changed? Or am I overthinking this, and should just stick to what's written? I'm meeting with the Ghostlord group tomorrow, and I'm going to have them searching the Thornwastes and probably running into some lions or nomadic tribes in the woods (the book says they're possibilities out there). Next week is spring break, so I have time to get anything ready that I need to then.

    Thanks for all of the help, guys. This thread has been a great place to organize my thoughts and get other opinions, which has been invaluable to running this campaign well.

  11. - Top - End - #641
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    I've likewise begun running this with a new group of players--surprisingly, the first group I've had since I've lived where I am that's lasted more than just a few sessions. We're about to have our sixth session tonight, but progress has been slow. The first session used a modified "Dark and Stormy Knight" to introduce the party and give some hints of what was to come. They discovered, for example, a sword with a red dragon hilt in the crypt as well as a mention of Tiamat. By now they've figured out the goblin raiders are likely based at Vraath Keep, so they should hit it tonight.

    Many of the suggestions in this thread have been wonderful. I'm also running it in Eberron, and I adopted the Warklegnaw = Amery plotline. It made for a wonderfully complex character...who was pretty quickly irritated by the party when they tried to bully him into accompanying them and hit too close to home with their comments about lycanthropy.

    Sherman, judging from the timeline presented in the module, I'd say the Ghostlord wouldn't have Ulwai's retinue or the undead he's been creating specifically for the Red Hand. His phylactery has probably just been stolen, so it might be a great opportunity to make a deal: if they can recover his phylactery, he'll step out of the conflict. That's how I'd run it, at any rate.

  12. - Top - End - #642
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    ACSherman

    My opinion is that Ulwai and Varanthian would, given the timetable, both be there, but the bonedrinkers would not be created yet. It seems unlikely to me that the Ghostlord's support would be a last-minute deal, especially since both he and wyrmlord Saarvith, the guardian of his phylactery, are featured on Koth's map.

    You could still do it as Ivellius suggested...it would likely go better for your players...and it could be interesting if they tried to kill the ghostlord (or did kill him-which shouldn't happen at their level-and he regrew at his phylactery up north) leaving him angry with a burning desire for revenge. If the party has to fight both the ghostlord and general Kharn at the same time (which happens if the ghostlord personally joins the battle), they're going to be royally screwed.

    I would suggest you gauge what your players are likely to do. If you think they're likely to attack the ghostlord, I would put in Ulwai's retinue for them to fight, and maybe get killed against, first. If you think they would talk, Ivellius' idea becomes more appealing, as they might be able to catch up with the rest of the party before too much happens. On their trip back they run into Ulwai, who the ghostlord hasn't dealt with because of the phylactery blackmail issue.

  13. - Top - End - #643
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by ACSherman View Post
    My players just split the party.
    The biggest enemies the PCs face isn't the dragon, isn't the demon, isn't even the max-optimized level 20 Archivist...

    It's themselves. It will always be themselves.

    My players just tried to do exactly the same thing. I managed to steer them clear of doing this...somehow.

  14. - Top - End - #644
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Just posting to thank Saintheart for this astounding guide. It's letting me manage...well, see the link in my sig >.< Anyway, I also had a question: Does redoing the hobgoblin regulars as Fighter 2 with Longspears to drop after taking a charge, longswords for close fighting, and longbows for volleys seem balanced? That's what I'm doing for now, and it's put the regulars at about 17 AC and +5 to hit. I also gave them the 3rd level ability of the PF phalanx fighter archetype; it didn't seem too overboard to let them use a longspear 1-handed with a shield if they were going to drop it after one attack.

  15. - Top - End - #645
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Sorry for the double post, but I totally forgot to ask: Do you have any recommendation for a character that's running Vow of Peace? It grants a permanent, 20 foot radius, calm emotions spell, and it seems like it'll make large portions of the game a cakewalk.

  16. - Top - End - #646
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Thought I'd chime in here with what's been going on in my campaign, share some experiences and thoughts based on what has happened with my party.

    I'm running a real life game with Eight unruly players who range from hardly ever talking at the table unless prompted to antagonistic Munchkins who routinely steal and cheat the other party members. This necessitates a decent amount of grumpiness whenever I DM for them, but happily (after far, far too long) they're starting to get better.

    We're playing an unholy blend of Pathfinder and 3.5 (which is available on request, and I pick and choose which Monsters I'll use from both)

    Session 1

    Spoiler
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    The Session opened fine, the ambush by the Red Hand going smoothly enough. The party was tougher nuts to crack than the Hobgoblins and (Draconic) Hellhounds had the capacity to deal with, and Uth-Lar was defeated by some... creative uses of Bardic Spellcasting.

    In Drellin's Ferry, they spent quite a bit of time interacting with some of the NPCs, especially Morlin the Blacksmith (who, on a whim, became a stout, curvacious female Dwarf with the daintiest voice I could muster). I used these interactions to signpost the way to Old Warklegnaw by conscripting the PCs to look for a recently fallen meteorite that Morlin believes contains some rare ore.

    I doubt they'd ever find it otherwise, and I'm honestly worried that the Red Hand will crush Elsir Vale unopposed once the Party has done Vraath Keep

    They talked to Norro Winston, since they were here to deliver a Letter to the Town Speaker, and agree to clear out the Goblins that have taken up residence in the nearby keep in the Forest.

    Session 2

    Spoiler
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    They head off into the Witchwoods, and after destroying a pair of Stag Beetles, they reach the Causeway and go to investigate the overturned cart. Hydra attack!

    The problem here wasn't the Hydra, it was the player's indecision. They decided pretty quickly, after watching the parties' Shadowcaster go down to the Hydra (he was the one who'd decided to do the investigating, and was therefore the only one in range) that they didn't want to fight it, but they did want to retrieve their party member's still living body. So, instead of Fighting the Hydra and trying to put it down, they tried to distract and debuff the creature. Of course, since the Hydra was healing a significant amount every turn from its Fast Healing, the problem became increasingly dire as it stayed at around about the same level of Health as the Party was quickly worn down.

    It probably would have ended in them running and leaving the Shadowcaster behind, but the Gunslinger managed to score a Crit on the Hydra. With a x4 Modifier, that ended up being a lot of Hurt. Suddenly the party really wanted to kill this Hydra (The Gunslinger had been doing so much work in this fight, Blinding the Hydra each round with Alchemical Flare Cartidges)

    The Ratfolk Swordsage Shadow Jaunted into an AoO to try and deal the last of the damage with Fire Riposte, but was instagibbed with a Critical Bite attack. After a furious bout of descriptive text, I let him perform the Fire Riposte anyway, but it still wasn't enough.

    The Wizard (Going down the GOD Route, and had proven inneffectual as the Hydra had even saved or been only moderately inconvenienced by his BFC), who'd been sneaking around to pull the Shadowcaster out of there, but was caught out in the open when the Hydra had finally beaten all the Blindness. Without any considerations to being in combat, the Wizard became a quick snack for the Hydra.

    Finally, the Alchemist tossed a Bomb which did enough damage to put the Hydra down... but the Splash Damage from the Bomb killed the Shadowcaster.

    So, after losing three members of the party, they decided that they were going back to town to lick their wounds.


    Session 3

    Spoiler
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    The party restocked on members, and added an Evoker Wizard (played by the same player), a Dervish Dance Kensai/Bladebound Magus and a DFI Bard.

    Returning through the forest, they decided to attack the keep in the dead of night. The fight went from what I would've assumed would be "Quite Challenging" (considering that I'd refitted Hobgoblin Veterans as Warblades and upgraded the Worgs to Dire Wolves) to "Cakewalk" by both planning out the fight to use it to their advantage, and the extra 3d6 from Dragonfire Inspiration. The Magus played the diversion, getting all the enemies to come rushing out to attack him alone in the courtyard, smashing the boulders with the flat of his Scimitar and shouting to get their attention.

    The first Goblin to attack him got absolutely destroyed with a Critical DFI'd Shocking Grasp Scimitar. That Goblin's wolf was then taken down with a Ray of Frost and Rifle Shot (both backed by DFI).

    The Veterans and the Minotaur never even got a chance to enter the fray proper. Ranged support from the Gunslinger, Wizard and Alchemist made it almost impossible for them to get into combat, and the incredibly solid defenses of the Magus let him wade into the middle of them and not get hit even once, while dealing ridiculous amounts of damage in the meantime.

    The Manticore faired better, almost disabling the Gunslinger after a charge, but another critical hit served to make that not a problem. The Gunslinger has been doing so much work.

    The fight took six rounds, exactly enough time for Koth to finish his work and watch the end of the battle. He waited for things to calm down and the party to start bunching up, and Blinded the Wizard. They hadn't seen Koth yet, so they assumed that the Minotaur's Greataxe had been poisoned, and they were in the process of wondering what to do when Koth speared the Magus and the AntiPaladin with a Lightning Bolt. He proceeded to introduce himself, and swore enmity on the group on behalf of the Red Hand.

    He took a bullet for his troubles, and retreated to the air with his Potion of Fly.

    After that, the Party tried to deal with the spellcaster who was happy to snipe them with his Wand of Magic Missile. He took a few more hits, but once the Gunslinger went down, it started to seem like the battle would end in a TPK. So, when the (still blind) Wizard asked casually if anyone could think what the "MM" he had written on his list of prepared spells might be, since he'd forgotten... well, I decided to fudge things in their favour. Sneakily, I decided that Koth had used a Scroll of Greater Luminous Armor rather than a combination of Shield and Mage Armor. So, they were able to bring him down with the blind Wizard's Magic Missile, after he was aimed by the Bard.

    I feel pretty okay about it.


    My thoughts at the moment boil down to a few salient points;

    • Dragon Fire Inspiration will trivialise encounters, especially with big parties
    • The monsters really need to be reworked to handle a moderately optimised party. Like, its essential.
    • The Party really wanted to spend time crafting, but I subtly nudged them in the direction of not doing so. If the Red Hand attacks Drellin's Ferry before the party even leaves, then we have a problem. For one, its not really very much fun for them.
    • The Magus, as a class, is very well designed. With the work its player has put into making it do what he wants, it is very effective. The other melee members of the Party, especially the Antipaladin, expressed that they weren't feeling particularly useful at the moment
    • I NEED to do a proper audit of everyone's character sheets, and get them to explain where all their numbers come from.
    • The Red Hand isn't very threatening at the moment, and I'm going to definitely follow the advice for beefing them up given here.


    I regret not rebuilding Koth, because leaving him in his current state left him less than effective. Even so, a Flying Enemy was more than enough to severely debilitate them. I wonder how they're going to deal with the Dragons?

    But for now, I'm going to start reworking the Red Hand rank-and-file, beef up the special troops a bit more, and restat the Wyrmlords and the weaker Dragons.
    Last edited by Golden Ladybug; 2013-03-08 at 08:22 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    Forgive me for being ignorant, but how would 15/adamantine protect the dragon from hitting the ground at over 4,4 billion newtons?

  17. - Top - End - #647
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Hrm....well, it looks like your problem isn't so much damage output as it is action economy. I'd recommend that instead of beefing the Horde members up, you just add a few more of them every fight. That'll tone the action economy advantage down and hopefully result in fewer deaths in the party.

    ...

    To be fair, if I had that party, I'd probably be trying to kill them, though. Munchkinry without everyone on board is a jerk move.

  18. - Top - End - #648
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    The damage output certainly helps though; damage figures well in excess of a Hobgoblin Veteran have been commonplace since Dragonfore Inspiration took the stage. That aspect is what I'm aiming to rectify, since I'm happy with the damage output of the NPCs, but their defenses are sorely lacking. As is their ability to actually hit the party.

    I will consider beefing up the contingents of enemies. The action economy is very much slanted towards the party at the moment, and it just makes things difficult if nothing can challenge the PCs because they've been weakened so significantly by the time they get to act. The advice to give the NPCs improved initiative might also be helpful

    The munchkinry has been something I've been trying to put a stop to ever since I started running games for this group, and it seems like some of the worst offenders are getting the picture. Hopefully.
    Last edited by Golden Ladybug; 2013-03-09 at 04:47 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    Forgive me for being ignorant, but how would 15/adamantine protect the dragon from hitting the ground at over 4,4 billion newtons?

  19. - Top - End - #649
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    I'm building the NPCs with higher point buy and usually bump their hit points a bit. Compared with monsters of equal level, they tend to lag behind quite a bit, so boosting them up serves more to bring them in line then make them overpowered. I'm planning on doing even more with boss NPCs, so that they can actually be a threat.
    The Ishka wiki. Check it out people, it's a cool little city.

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  20. - Top - End - #650
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by shaddy_24 View Post
    I'm building the NPCs with higher point buy and usually bump their hit points a bit. Compared with monsters of equal level, they tend to lag behind quite a bit, so boosting them up serves more to bring them in line then make them overpowered. I'm planning on doing even more with boss NPCs, so that they can actually be a threat.
    Solid advice. I've been doing the same with the NPCs in my campaigns; if you click the link in my sig I've got links to all the NPCs I've done so far. I'm really looking forward to getting to redo Koth against one of the more optimized parties. I probably won't be posting stats to the prepublished monsters, but the NPCs are all getting a bit of a boost.

    You'll notice I've refrained from Tome of Battle for my NPCs; the reasoning was that for the low-level mooks I didn't want to spend time shuffling through maneuver cards every single session. That won't hold true for the major NPCs (Wyrmlords, etcetera). Kharn, in particular, will probably be redone as Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 5.

  21. - Top - End - #651
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    A houserule I introduced for running RHOD in Pathfinder was that a weapon automatically hits not only on a natural 20, but on any number within it's threat range (and 19s for x3 weapons and 18s and 19s for x4 weapons). The party mostly has ACs in the mid 20s, which are two high for the regulars to hit on anything but a 20 normally. Likewise, the dragons, when self-buffed with mage armor and shield boast ACs between 35 and 40, when the party has around +15s to hit.

    I wouldn't normally effectively nerf AC like this, but the party needs a boost against the dragons and the mooks need a boost against the party. I wouldn't do it in a normal campaign, where you don't have so many low-level monsters. So far I think it's worked out about right for this though. A EL 1 baddie with a scimitar still needs an 18+ to hit, which doesn't happen that often, but is going to happen at least a couple times a fight. They get dangerous in groups, which is kind of the idea.

    Otherwise: big groups and use aid another.

  22. - Top - End - #652
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Hmm...I might have to introduce that at one of the tables. I don't want my optimizers to start ignoring mooks. There should be caution...

  23. - Top - End - #653
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    Zombie

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by RFLS View Post
    Hmm...I might have to introduce that at one of the tables. I don't want my optimizers to start ignoring mooks. There should be caution...
    there are various ways to work with mooks. I have a couple of ways to work with this
    also, in my adventure the goblins had been assembling an army for over a year. This allowed them to train and behave in a disciplined and semi-intelligent way and have access to various materials/masterwork items/gold/etc.

    1. Beef them up a bit (make them fighter2 iso Warr2);
    2. Have them us alternative weapons: use things like nets/bolos/tanglefootbags/etc, stuff which reduces movement/flight;
    3. Use the terrain!! Especially if the goblins had time to prepare, use thing like snaring traps, marshes, high-ground/low-ground, water/streems, etc;
    4. make them work as units (though this doesn't work as good with aoe spellcasters). In my camp. I use units of 3 hobgoblins with Phalanx Fighting/ Shieldmate and shortswords with a Sergeant (lvl 3 Crusader with Iron Guard's Glare fighting with a Spiked Gauntlet and a Glaive) or have several of these units work together. You can have these kind of unit as 'elite' units;
    5. have them grapple certain (key) members of the party;
    6. give some mobs the 'Mageslayer' feat (use this as a rare fightingstyle)
    7. use them as delay to get to the (mini)Boss;
    8. something I can't think about right now :)


    hope this helps
    Last edited by BerronBrightaxe; 2013-03-14 at 11:41 AM.

  24. - Top - End - #654
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    axe
    Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RFLS View Post
    Hmm...I might have to introduce that at one of the tables. I don't want my optimizers to start ignoring mooks. There should be caution...
    there are various ways to work with mooks. I have a couple of ways to work with this
    also, in my adventure the goblins had been assembling an army for over a year. This allowed them to train and behave in a disciplined and semi-intelligent way and have access to various materials/masterwork items/gold/etc.

    Beef them up a bit (make them fighter2 iso Warr2);
    Have them us alternative weapons: use things like nets/bolos/tanglefootbags/etc, stuff which reduces movement/flight;
    Use the terrain!! Especially if the goblins had time to prepare, use thing like snaring traps, marshes, high-ground/low-ground, water/streems, etc;
    make them work as units (though this doesn't work as good with aoe spellcasters). In my camp. I use units of 3 hobgoblins with Phalanx Fighting/ Shieldmate and shortswords with a Sergeant (lvl 3 Crusader with Iron Guard's Glare fighting with a Spiked Gauntlet and a Glaive) or have several of these units work together. You can have these kind of unit as 'elite' units;
    have them grapple certain (key) members of the party;
    give some mobs the 'Mageslayer' feat (use this as a rare fightingstyle)
    use them as delay to get to the (mini)Boss;
    something I can't think about right now :)


    hope this helps
    These are good suggestions, and I use many of them, though the issue we're talking about is the mooks not being able to hit the PCs regardless of tactics. The game gets out of balance Encounter Level/Challenge Rating-wise when you have a lot of low level NPCs against high level PCs. One fireball and the encounter is over if the NPCs are placed (in)correctly. Likewise a full attack will always usually kill one.

    It just becomes a math game...the NPCs last have to last x rounds to get in 20 attack rolls to statistically expect to roll a 20 to do *any* damage to the party. If you throw in enough extra mooks to make it a serious threat, the combat will drag out forever and won't be as satisfying.

  25. - Top - End - #655
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    One way of balancing that is to borrow from the mob template, or so I hear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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  26. - Top - End - #656
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    (Quick Recap: I'm the guy who's party split early on in the campaign.)

    I just had my Ghostlord Group (Paladin, Favored Soul, and Warlock. Led by the warlock, who's the most optimized, followed by P then the FS.) Attack the Ghostlord's lair. They used Hide From Undead to make themselves invisible to the Ghostlord's minions, and the group of Hobgoblins went on a "supply run" to a local town to regain everything to clear up some time for the PCs to meet with the Ghostlord.

    However, my Warlock's hubris got the better of him, and he found the Ioun Stone in the Ooze pit. The ooze dragged him under the surface of... itself, I suppose, and all of his non-magical items were destroyed (It's how I've worked with items in my campaigns with oozes in the past) before he was able to get out. This included all of his armor, scrolls in his bag (I rule that they're non-magical paper with magical paper written on them. Much like a spellbook. If that's wrong, I can definitely retcon it.)

    He stole a pelt to turn into some clothing, and is currently left with a magical "Hat of Eldrich Power", gloves of Dexterity, an Artificer's Monocle, a Ring of Feather Falling, a wand or two, and a healing belt. He and the Paladin are currently flying toward Hammerfist Holds to deliver the Mercenary funds (The Favored soul is currently being held prisoner to the Ghostlord. I'll probably run the captured encounters with him sometime this upcoming week). My Warlock's player is looking toward re-equip himself at the Holds.


    Do you all know of anything that would be interesting, good for a warlock, and have a Dwarven vibe to it? I'm gonna look through Races of Stone in a bit to check for anything, but I was curious if you all knew anything.
    Thanks!
    Last edited by ACSherman; 2013-03-16 at 04:25 PM. Reason: Grammatical Error

  27. - Top - End - #657
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    I'm going to self-plug and say that I started my own campaign journal (the thread's here). It's a lot to wade through all at once, but oh well. I've only recently gotten the time to write everything out.

    If you're looking for ways to make battles more threatening with minions, I'd say Heroes of Battle has a few ways as well. Aerial bombardment can be done by manticores, chimera, or dragons. Arrow volleys can spread damage to people who have poor Reflex saves or just fill a square with so many arrows that some are guaranteed to hit. You might consider adding commander auras to hobgoblin sergeants to buff groups a little.

  28. - Top - End - #658
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivellius View Post
    I'm going to self-plug and say that I started my own campaign journal (the thread's here). It's a lot to wade through all at once, but oh well. I've only recently gotten the time to write everything out.

    If you're looking for ways to make battles more threatening with minions, I'd say Heroes of Battle has a few ways as well. Aerial bombardment can be done by manticores, chimera, or dragons. Arrow volleys can spread damage to people who have poor Reflex saves or just fill a square with so many arrows that some are guaranteed to hit. You might consider adding commander auras to hobgoblin sergeants to buff groups a little.
    Self-plug successful XD That looks like a really brutal campaign. You should keep track of deaths by player and see if any of them beat Kenny from Saph's campaign.

  29. - Top - End - #659
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by RFLS View Post
    Self-plug successful XD That looks like a really brutal campaign. You should keep track of deaths by player and see if any of them beat Kenny from Saph's campaign.
    Oh, I will. I'm actually saving all the character sheets of those that perish so we can have a look at them after the campaign's over. Four total deaths in eight sessions, but no player has had more than one.

    Brindol, I predict, will be absolutely brutal, though.

  30. - Top - End - #660
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivellius View Post
    Oh, I will. I'm actually saving all the character sheets of those that perish so we can have a look at them after the campaign's over. Four total deaths in eight sessions, but no player has had more than one.

    Brindol, I predict, will be absolutely brutal, though.
    Yeah, it most probably will. I'm giving myself even odds on one of my parties TPKing there. If I had to pick, it'd be my regular group. They're not the smartest people when it comes to rationing abilities.

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