The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

[Saintheart]

I'd kind of wonder why a white dragon is in the middle of the desert, honestly. You might be better served to switch out with the blue from the Fane (making Azurr Kul's daddy a white dragon and descaling the blue for the Ghostlord area). As for the second, as long as you match the metallics appropriately to their chromatic counterparts (CR-wise), I don't know that the secondary breath weapon is a game-breaker.

In passing on this, Varanthian is notionally CR 10. There's no "book" blue dragon that equates to the same CR -- Juvenile blue is CR 8, Young Adult is CR 11 -- but Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook provides very nice instruction on how to advance monsters if you want to adjust a Juvenile up. Varanthian's concept itself -- seeing as behirs who haven't mated with demons despise dragons -- is dodgy, and it's certainly in-theme to replace her with a dragon.

Even so I'd be cautious: CR ratings aside, even a Juvenile blue dragon at CR 8has a longer and more damaging breath weapon than Varanthian, and a dragon can use it much more frequently. A Juvenile blue also has better AC, a slightly better bite attack, and much better movement modes than Varanthian, albeit unlike Varanthian it has no spell resistance. Varanthian is basically an ubergrappler designed to get close and chew on people; a dragon is a different beast entirely.

But the Will-save only applies for the target of the spell, which would be the dragon. And why would you want to resist your own spell?
So it is just the crappy range.

Thanks for the catch -- oops. :D And thanks for the suggestions and feedback, too!

[Big Fau]

I'd kind of wonder why a white dragon is in the middle of the desert, honestly. You might be better served to switch out with the blue from the Fane (making Azurr Kul's daddy a white dragon and descaling the blue for the Ghostlord area). As for the second, as long as you match the metallics appropriately to their chromatic counterparts (CR-wise), I don't know that the secondary breath weapon is a game-breaker.

It isn't like he would be there without orders. As for the breath weapons, the Cone of Sleep/Paralysis could make for a TPK fairly easily (the Dread Necromancer isn't undead, and the party's saves are a bit low).

[Lachdan]

I'd kind of wonder why a white dragon is in the middle of the desert, honestly. You might be better served to switch out with the blue from the Fane (making Azurr Kul's daddy a white dragon and descaling the blue for the Ghostlord area). As for the second, as long as you match the metallics appropriately to their chromatic counterparts (CR-wise), I don't know that the secondary breath weapon is a game-breaker.

I plan on using Tyrgarun in the desert at the ghostlords lair and a fang dragon at the fane of tiamat.

Since Varanthian is CR 10, but the ECL is 8, I think a juvenile blue dragon could be the right choice.

Edit:
So my players yesterday crushed the garrison at the barricade under their feet without breaking a sweat.
Even the Scullcrusher Ogres with changed feats (Agile Shield Fighter, Power Attack, Shield Spec., Improved Shield Bash, Improved Grapple) got beaten ridiculously easy, although one of them managed to grapple the cleric for most of the fight.

I also brought up some rumors about the Lizardfolk and that they got more aggressive recently and their leader experimenting with Black Dragon blood on their young. My players immedietly assumed this to be the Spawn of Tiamat one of the captured Goblins told them about.
(Essentielly the Black Talon tribes story from MMIV and their leader Yarshag, but reduced to a Druid 8. I think Lizardfolk with CR 3 to be more appropiate than CR 1 - hopefully one Fireball does not solve the problem. This also adds a leader to them and the option of turning the Lizardfolk to their side, since they have not much sympathy for him.)

Edit2:
So, I am a bit worried about the Razorfiends and if they pose enough of a threat. In the frist encounter the Razorfiend is alone and subject to the combined firepower of the party, which could easy lead to a dead Razorfiend in the first round. I planned on replacing Improved Initiative with Elusive Target to lengthen the lifespan, but an alternative would be to upgun the Wingblades (Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Power Critical, Improved Natural Attack) to cause some serious damage.
After some thought I decided to improve their HD by 2 and go with Elusive Target instead of Improved Initative and Bounding Assault as 12th level feat. Next tuesday I can say how that played out.

[Saintheart]

Lachdan, what's your party made up of again?

[Lachdan]

The group is made up of an optimized Abjurant Champion gish (unbeatable AC for the common monster, high damag output with wraith-/true strike), an Melee-Cleric with DMM (effectively quicken 2/day, good damage, slow movement), an wand using Wizard (wastes gold, but nonethelss useful in combar with damage and debuffs) and an Rogue/Fighter (missed most of the time, but got invisivbility from the wizard last time and a good position for sneak attack).
The defense of the later three ist not that good (using both hands for weapons), but they managed quite good to keep them out of harms way (invisibility and being threatened by the gish). Problem for the common hobgoblins is the rare magic support, which would stand a chance against the gish.
So there is quite a lot of firepower which the experienced players begin now, after a few sessions, to organize effective.

[Saintheart]

Then you're entirely right to upgrade your Razorfiends. In my campaign I put two of them against eight PCs and upgraded them a bit (my build in the front of thread won't be RAW legal because we were using house rules).

The razorfiends killed one PC outright and took another to 1 hitpoint, but that was with the advantage of a surprise round and closing to melee range without being spotted (I hit the party at night in a ruined manor surrounded by swampwater, thus giving the razorfiends a quiet, hard-to-see approach - maybe factor in environmental advantages for the razorfiends in your campaign?)

But even then I have to admit they went down in one round after that; Glitterdust took them out of the fight and that was pretty much that. I think if you get a decent scare out of the party from the razorfiends then that probably is enough; like I said, after that you can intimate or suggest to the party how much damage a platoon of those ugly little things is going to do to Brindol's defences if they smack your optimised PCs around a bit.

I like the Elusive Target stratagem, though; looking forward to seeing how your encounter turns out.

EDIT: Oh, before I forget, you could go a little cheesy and shoehorn in a martial maneuver out of Tome of Battle. Martial Study will net you Wall of Blades, which if your razorfiend's AC is a bit low theoretically allows you to exchange an attack roll for AC for one attack. It's debatable at RAW, as I said, because the maneuver's text says you can only use a "melee weapon you are holding", and the wingblades would be natural weapons -- even though a monster is always considered "armed". But if you're desperate for avoiding punches caused by a low AC...?

[BerronBrightaxe]

It has been a while since I posted and I thought it is time to give you a small update on the RhoD I'm currently running and concluding with a couple of questions I have about the adventure and 'the Reactory Phylcactery.' *

*=

Spoiler

Show

This is a terrible pun, and Saintheart is always taking requests for a better tag description

The party is pretty much maximized. Although some classes aren't considered the best, the players work towards the best build within their character. Also the number of players average out around 5/6. This means I upgrade the encounters severely and I 'beg, steal and borrow' where I can (thnx, Saint )
The 'current' party:

• a LG halfling ranger/paladin of Yondalla, working towards a Halfling Outrider prestige class;
• a LG dwarven cleric of Moradin, working towards Divine Oracle prestige class;
• a NG lesser Aasimar Healer of Ilmater, wanting to achieve Sainthood (template);
• a CG human soc/rogue of Tymora, just got into the unseen seer prestige class;
• a CG human rog/fighter of Tymora, can't recall atm where he's working towards;
• a NG human Fav. Soul of Lathandar, just got into the combat medic prestige class;
• a CG elf cleric/archer of Solonor Thelandira
• and a CN Fire gnasi Dragonshaman which just left the party. He disappeared in the night on one of the owls and a part of the gear and loot of the party is missing. He's rolling a new character, which I don't know yet.

I don't want to journal the adventure here for you (this isn't the right place). In short, it was a hard and long battle, with in the end the dragon escaped with Nurklenak and the halfling ranger/paladin was killed. Amongst the treasures they found: the phylactory.

They went back the Brindol to discuss what they need to do with the phylactory.
Generally speaking, there are 4 options IMHO:

1. destroy the phylactery right away;
2. keep the phylactery for now and use it to keep the Ghostlord out of the battle;
3. keep the phylactery for now and use it to get the Ghostlord to fight on Brindol's side;
4. give the phylactery back.

The party is currently discussing with Captain Ulverth about what to do with it [we didn't finish the discussion last session].

This part leads me to a couple of questions... Some were adressed in the guide, but some I could find anywhere.

• is the phylactory an evil magic item, and thus can be noticed by 'detect evil', or just a magic item? I've been looking around, but can't find the specifics on this. Considering a part of the soul of the Lich is in there, I wouldn't be surprised if the phylactory would have the same alignment as the Lich.
• About options 2, 3 and 4: Is not destroying an evil item considered a (lesser) evil act? And how about trying to manipulate/force an evil creature into doing what you want? And what would the consequences be for the LG players or the Saint wannabe?
• And what about when the party sits on their butts until the battle. I mean the Ghostlord and the RHoD both don't going to sit around and wait.. They will go after the phylactery. For the RHoD Wyrmlord Stormcaller will make sense outside the city, but Skather if they stay within Brindol. And what would the Ghostlord do himself? Which resources at his disposal would he use (considering he's been around for 400 years, he's got plenty of resources I would argue)

I've been a bit sleep deprived while posting this, so I hope you can make sense of it.

Cheers,
Berron

[shaddy_24]

I played the Ghostlord as so crazy and senile that he would literally forget who had his phylactery at any given time. The party was scryed on by him, and he even sent them a sending, but a week later when they showed up in his chamber, he didn't recognize any of them. He might have sent a few things if they'd held onto it for a while, but in general, he would have been too crazy to influence things much.

This didn't mean he wasn't dangerous, his stats were adjusted to human lich druid 4/rogue 1/ur priest 7 with practiced spellcasting to boost caster level high enough to qualify for lich. If the party had tried to fight, it would have been really short.

[Saintheart]

This part leads me to a couple of questions... Some were adressed in the guide, but some I could find anywhere.

• is the phylactory an evil magic item, and thus can be noticed by 'detect evil', or just a magic item? I've been looking around, but can't find the specifics on this. Considering a part of the soul of the Lich is in there, I wouldn't be surprised if the phylactory would have the same alignment as the Lich.
• About options 2, 3 and 4: Is not destroying an evil item considered a (lesser) evil act? And how about trying to manipulate/force an evil creature into doing what you want? And what would the consequences be for the LG players or the Saint wannabe?
• And what about when the party sits on their butts until the battle. I mean the Ghostlord and the RHoD both don't going to sit around and wait.. They will go after the phylactery. For the RHoD Wyrmlord Stormcaller will make sense outside the city, but Skather if they stay within Brindol. And what would the Ghostlord do himself? Which resources at his disposal would he use (considering he's been around for 400 years, he's got plenty of resources I would argue)

(1) Page 65 of RHOD: "small iron coffer, unlocked, contains the most valuable item of all -- the Ghostlord's phylactery, a delicate adamantine chain on which are threaded a lion's claws and teeth: it radiates a strong aura of necromancy and evil." So it's just fluff justification. :D

(2) I don't know destroying an evil item is itself an evil act - if the Ghostlord had a good alignment there might be some argument, but I think destroying a phylactery is just doing the same as trying to terminate an evil creature -- good opposes evil, therefore if you take out an evil creature you are doing a good act. Remember also what you're manipulating the evil creature to do: stop building undead to unleash on the city of Brindol (and it's a more peaceable method than just throwing down on him, to boot). That has to be a good act by default. There's no alignment damage on this one I think.

(3) This is partially covered in the guide, but the first question you have to answer for yourself as DM is: does the Ghostlord know where the phylactery is, i.e. does he know the party has it?

If he doesn't, then his position is not changed - Ulwai just bluffs him that the phylactery is in the Red Hand's possession (even if they don't have it). He stays on the default path of building the platoon of bonedrinkers for the Red Hand, and only shows up at the final battle in Brindol itself. Ulwai and the Red Hand sure have a reason to go looking for the phylactery, but the Ghostlord doesn't unless he knows the Red Hand has lost it -- something the Red Hand will not be telling him any time soon.

[Lachdan]

I like the Elusive Target stratagem, though; looking forward to seeing how your encounter turns out.

Yesterday they encountered their first Spawn of Tiamat and the little buggers impressed them quite well. The use of Bounding Assault and Elusive Target suprised them and the Razorfiends (I used 2 Razorfiend, although the second one arrived 4 turns (yaeh, 4 on 1d4) after the beginning of the battle, when the first one was already one round dead...) caused quite a lot of damage without killing anyone (luckily for my players I did not roll much critical hits). The use of Elusive Target was certainly useful and better than Improved Initiative.
Surprisingly enough no one got the idea of using spells with will-save or battlefield control in any encounter up to now, so the Razorfiend could freely use Bounding Assault to jump around and hit characters.

EDIT: Oh, before I forget, you could go a little cheesy and shoehorn in a martial maneuver out of Tome of Battle. Martial Study will net you Wall of Blades, which if your razorfiend's AC is a bit low theoretically allows you to exchange an attack roll for AC for one attack. It's debatable at RAW, as I said, because the maneuver's text says you can only use a "melee weapon you are holding", and the wingblades would be natural weapons -- even though a monster is always considered "armed". But if you're desperate for avoiding punches caused by a low AC...?

For my surprise my players did not want to include the ToB, I would have it allowed ...

Concerning the Ghostlord:
While rebuilding him as Ur-Priest I found the nice spell Life Ward (SC, Cleric 4), which similiar to Death Ward, protects a creature from positive energy damage for 1 Min./level. The Ghostlord will definetly cast this before battle (most of his private chambers not accessible to the horde will have Glyphs of Warding and Forbiddance, so he will have the time for preparation) to avoid getting hit with something like Heal or similiar. I switched the Staff of Life for a Wand: Cure Moderate Wounds (33 charges) and a Staff: Raise Read (2 charges) so they will not have access to Heal, but nonetheless handy to have some spell against it.

[BerronBrightaxe]

(1) Page 65 of RHOD: "small iron coffer, unlocked, contains the most valuable item of all -- the Ghostlord's phylactery, a delicate adamantine chain on which are threaded a lion's claws and teeth: it radiates a strong aura of necromancy and evil." So it's just fluff justification. :D

Doh... missed that, thnx

(2) I don't know destroying an evil item is itself an evil act - if the Ghostlord had a good alignment there might be some argument, but I think destroying a phylactery is just doing the same as trying to terminate an evil creature -- good opposes evil, therefore if you take out an evil creature you are doing a good act. Remember also what you're manipulating the evil creature to do: stop building undead to unleash on the city of Brindol (and it's a more peaceable method than just throwing down on him, to boot). That has to be a good act by default. There's no alignment damage on this one I think.

I run the Ghostlord as evil. I asked this question because of the essence of what you say.. Good opposes evil, but the act of taking out an evil creature depends on the action taken.
In this adventure: is not destroying the phylactery an evil act?
It makes sense to argue that destroying it is considered a good act, thus not destroying would be considered an (lesser) evil or neutral act? But if destroying it means that the Ghostlord adds his followers to the goblin army, more people could die. Knowing this fact, does not destroying and/or returning the phylactery (and keeping the Ghostlord out of the war) be considered as a good act?
I don't want to start an alignment discussion. But I think the phylactery can end up giving some 'challenges' in this department, especially for the LGoodies.

(3) This is partially covered in the guide, but the first question you have to answer for yourself as DM is: does the Ghostlord know where the phylactery is, i.e. does he know the party has it?

If he doesn't, then his position is not changed - Ulwai just bluffs him that the phylactery is in the Red Hand's possession (even if they don't have it). He stays on the default path of building the platoon of bonedrinkers for the Red Hand, and only shows up at the final battle in Brindol itself. Ulwai and the Red Hand sure have a reason to go looking for the phylactery, but the Ghostlord doesn't unless he knows the Red Hand has lost it -- something the Red Hand will not be telling him any time soon.

Yes, the Ghostlord knows where it is. It made sense to me that the Ghostlord would scry several times a day to find his Phylactery. Hence he found the party and contacted them, demanding the phylactery back in exchange for information.
The initial reaction of the party was to try talk to Ghostlord (via the dream they were contact initially) to keep him out of the war. Considering he wants his phylactery back, he would 2 things I would presume.. First sending the bonedrinkers and second try to get his phylactery back via stealth (either by himself or his minions).
The RHoD will send Ulwai after the group and try to get the phylactery back. Inside the city it would make sense to sense to use Skather (maybe with a backup), as a stealth mission, not assassination mission.

[Saintheart]

(2) ... I don't think failing to destroy a phylactery is an evil act, it's just neutral. As RHOD contemplates, a phylactery in the hands of a good person can be used either to force the evil lich to stop his evil deeds. Still, your argument's a good alignment block to throw on the LG paladin who wants to stomp on the phylactery and thus deny you the opportunity of taking him through the stone lion Seriously, I wouldn't cause alignment damage on either course, because it does remove the illusion of choice. But then my philosophy on the subject might not match yours - alignment tussles are stuff I think a DM has to consider coolly, make a judgment call, and just grit his teeth for a lot of OOC arguments around the table whichever way it goes. Really the easier course is to rationalise the party's decision as good or non-evil at least either way so they don't waste a whole session on the subject. IMHO.

(3) I think your analysis of what happens is right on. Remember it's not just the bonedrinkers - the Ghostlord will be present for the final battle if the issue of his phylactery is not sorted out, too. Otherwise, a stealth mission for Skather sounds cool; you could even finagle a classic chase across the rooftops out of it!

[BerronBrightaxe]

(2) ... I don't think failing to destroy a phylactery is an evil act, it's just neutral. As RHOD contemplates, a phylactery in the hands of a good person can be used either to force the evil lich to stop his evil deeds. Still, your argument's a good alignment block to throw on the LG paladin who wants to stomp on the phylactery and thus deny you the opportunity of taking him through the stone lion Seriously, I wouldn't cause alignment damage on either course, because it does remove the illusion of choice. But then my philosophy on the subject might not match yours - alignment tussles are stuff I think a DM has to consider coolly, make a judgment call, and just grit his teeth for a lot of OOC arguments around the table whichever way it goes. Really the easier course is to rationalise the party's decision as good or non-evil at least either way so they don't waste a whole session on the subject. IMHO.

they didn't need me to use a session on this discussion, they did perfectly well on their own ... although it was partially about alignment and partially about the best way to deal with Ghostlord.
I had them talk with Capt. Ulverth. He told them that he wanted the Ghostlord's army not joining the goblin army in the battle for Brindol. The party should do anything to prevent this joining, even if that means giving the phylactory back.

So far, they have decided to tell the Ghostlord to stay out of the battle as soon as he contacts them again (first time was via a dream), but every day since initial contact they have heard nothing and every day the army comes closer...

I use the alignments as a sort of guideline. I don't want to play it hard, but some reference is nice.

(3) I think your analysis of what happens is right on. Remember it's not just the bonedrinkers - the Ghostlord will be present for the final battle if the issue of his phylactery is not sorted out, too. Otherwise, a stealth mission for Skather sounds cool; you could even finagle a classic chase across the rooftops out of it!

I've given the Ghostlord some thought and decided not to have him present in Brindol. Primairly because I want to use him later in my campain (I intend to make it highlvl) and secundairy because it makes sense from a Ghostlord point of view. Being in the same area can get him and the phylactery killed. Not going means the stand-off will continue, giving him more time to get it back. This also means I'll make an undead-lieutenant, taking the place of the Ghostlord himself.

[Bubzors]

Read all of the discussion about the Ghostlord and his phylactery here recently so I thought I would go ahead and throw out my problem I'm having with this area: what happens if Regi and Saarvith get away with the phylactery?

Some background info on how it happened:
After a two long battles against the forces in Rhest my party last session managed to eliminate everything in the town hall except for Saarvith and Regi. Now the two of them were circling above raining damage while the party fought the rest of the ogres and such. They then withdrew inside to area to heal up and discuss what to do. IMPORTANT: at this point the one player makes an active decision to have me as DM know he shut all of the doors to this room.

Now, I figured that Regi and Saarvith know that their time is done in Rhest, but their main objective (besides hatching razorfiends) was to guard the phylactery, so they shouldn't just hightail it out of there is a chance of getting it back. I therefore tell the party they hear a loud thud of something landing on the roof. The party, low on spells and HP, stand around playing the waiting game and arguing for a few rounds, everyone not wanting to be the first to rush into fighting this dragon.

During this time I have Saarvith make some move silently vs the players listen checks. For three rounds the standoff continues before someone hears Saarvith grabbing the phylactery. They burst into the room in time to see Saarvith fly (he had drank a potion) out of the hole in the roof, and grab a hold of the dragon's back. The party fired a few pot shots, but basically let them go, thinking themselves victorious (they did not read the note to Saarvith yet about the phylactery). So they obviously find the note and facepalm.

The party is now back in Brindol after getting the owls from the elves. We stopped here last. My question is what suggestions would you have in dealing with the loss of the phylactery? I don't want to force them into thinking they have to defeat the lich or give up. I also don't want to be unbelievable in having the phylactery easily obtained again. In retrospect I don't think it is fair punishing them for not chasing after something they didn't know existed. I am having a hard time in coming up with an interesting/reasonable option for them to either deal with the Ghostlord or reacquire the phylactery.

tl;dr
The party let saarvith and regi get away with the phylactery. What are some good ideas to either have them get it back or otherwise eliminate the Ghostlord threat?

[BerronBrightaxe]

tl;dr
The party let saarvith and regi get away with the phylactery. What are some good ideas to either have them get it back or otherwise eliminate the Ghostlord threat?

A pickle indeed;)

First of all: did the party destroy the hatchery? The primairy goal of the RHoD at this location was the hatchery, the phylactory was added later. Saarvith/Regiarix would go back the next day to check if the hatchery was still in tact. If the party didn't destroy the eggs it would make sense that the RHoD would return to the location for the eggs to hatch. Even S&R could stay there, not report back to Azarr Kal, and wait for the eggs to hatch. Depending on when you let the eggs hatch you can add the razorfiends to attack on Brindol or use as a second army (+ the rembrance of the first one) lead by by Saarvith/Regi or another Wyrmlord.


All thing considering: it would make sense for the RHoD to keep the phylactory with some powerfull NPC's and good opportunities for protection. This pretty much leaves the Wyrmlords:

• Kharn: with his army seems to qualify pretty good as an option;
• Azarr Kul: within the temple would work, especially in the cavern;
• Ulwai: no, for very obvious reasons;
• Saarvith: hard to call. See the part above. If the hatchery did get destroyed, I would presume Saarvith to be in trouble and isn't allowed to protect the phylactory anymore due to his failure
• Koth: only if he survived in part one and the party didn't find the castle. If they didn't, you can hide it there.

How to get party back on the phylactories tail.

• Have Capt. Ulverth urge the party to disrupt the cooperation between RHoD and the Ghostlord. The phylactory is key.
• Have the Ghostlord contact the party or Brindol and have him offer information and his withdrawl in exchange for delivering the phylactory. (Not the most likely senario, considering the Ghostlord doesn't know the party)
• If/when the party capture an important (hob)goblin (e.g. one of the Wyrmlords), have it exchange certain info for his/her freedom/life.

I don't think there any direct ways with dealing with the Ghostlord (e.g. kidnapping him (or even more stupid: killing him)). He's either too powerfull and/or gets very pissed at the party. Neither can he be manipulated by the party as long as they don't have the phylactory.

In the end... Kharn seems to be a very good option. Eitherway: If they don't go after it, don't have them find it somewhere random. Have it heavily protected and play the RHoD smart. And don't feel guilty about giving them the consequences.

[Bubzors]

Thanks for some ideas. And yes, the party did destroy the hatchery. After thinking a bit and looking at your suggestions this is the idea I had:

Regi and Saarvith come back to a destroyed hatchery and run off back to Kharn and the main army to inform of their defeat. Here Saarvith is punished and the phylactery taken from him to be hidden within the horde itself (probably very close to Kharn himself, haven't fully decided where yet). I am thinking this may be a good time to run the Marked for Death encounter in the book, seeing as the horde will now recognize the party as potent enemies. With one little change, Saarvith is put in charge of the attack on the party in redemption for his failure.

In the meantime I will have Captain Ulverth urge the party to figure out anything they can to stop the Ghostlord from helping the Red Hand. Also, I believe I am going to make the dwarven mercenaries play a slightly bigger role, and have Jaarmath send the party to make sure the gold sent to the dwarves arrives safely. I am thinking to actually have the Marked for Death take place as an ambush at the Mercenary Gold encounter, kinda mix them together. THEN if they defeat Saarvith, they can find a note about his punishment and assignment to kill the party with a mention of the phylactery in the horde.

This way, if the players feel bold, they can try and stealthy infiltrate the horde and steal back the phylactery. I will of course make this very difficult but not impossible. The party has been resourceful, especially the beguiler, in sneaky/scouting situations. Then, with phylactery in hand they can move on to the Ghostlord.

I'm hoping it will work out, but knowing how players are, they may do something completely different. Anyway thanks for the suggestions and let me know what you think of the above.

[Fyermind]

Double post, but I also had another thought which I'd open for discussion, related to how to keep the party from fighting the Ghostlord at all. Call it "the good guy option":

This is still a half-formed idea at present, but another option for the whole scene is to add a further twist by making the Ghostlord a reformed lich with a Chaotic Good alignment (or even possibly a Lawful Neutral alignment).

Zarl under this story has well and truly suffered: he did enjoy being a lich at first, even creating some of the undead that now inhabit the stone lion -- but came to regret it as he realised what he'd lost, what he'd become, and what he'd done. Therefore his mission changed: he would not trouble the world anymore, but remain in seclusion and contemplation on his sins.

Rather than the stone lion being his home of ultimate evil, it is a fortress built to secure one thing: the Heart of the Lion, which Zarl knows will be used for great evil if it's removed. Zarl therefore has become the Heart of the Lion's guardian; it is his atonement for his dark deeds over his life. The undead he commands are to protect the artifact, not himself as such. He's become fairly addled as a result: he will not allow evil clerics near the artifact, but neither will he allow a good or neutral cleric to try and destroy the artifact, because he is still serving his penitence to the nature gods. The party offering to destroy him also doesn't appeal since it would end his guard over the artifact prematurely. He's been given to know by the gods that when the diseased tree in his chambers blooms and lives again, his curse will be lifted and his watch over the artifact will end.

This worked until the Red Hand stole his phylactery. He was given the ultimate in Hobson's Choice: either make us a few undead and get your phylactery back, or watch us destroy it, and thus you, and then take the Heart of the Lion for us to make it ourselves. Zarl therefore is close to completing his work for the Hand.

This might well prevent a good-aligned party fighting him, since his purposes are noble and he is, in fact, a slave to the Red Hand, not even a semi-willing participant.

You can expand this if the Lich is protecting an powerful magical node. He might also be subject to a curse or geas keeping him there. Wondrous architecture might further increase his attachment to the location. I'd run him as a lawful neutral druid with the node providing access to undead creating spells.

To protect the phylactery when the players find it I'd make sure they found information about it first. Everyone listens when they start reading a journal about an item that the red hand is keeping ransom when the next page of the report is explosive runes and the journal blows up in their faces.

In fact, if the Ghostlord has access to divination and sending or the like, I would have him contact the PCs as soon as he realizes they are meddling with the Red Hand. I would have him offer information about the forces at rhest if the PCs weren't planning on going there and have him try to arrange a deal with them ahead of time. One of the off color people they meet along the way might be a cultist of the ghost lord. In fact he could even be connected to the druid circle if he is indeed reformed.

[Saintheart]

Thanks for some ideas. And yes, the party did destroy the hatchery. After thinking a bit and looking at your suggestions this is the idea I had:

Regi and Saarvith come back to a destroyed hatchery and run off back to Kharn and the main army to inform of their defeat. Here Saarvith is punished and the phylactery taken from him to be hidden within the horde itself (probably very close to Kharn himself, haven't fully decided where yet). I am thinking this may be a good time to run the Marked for Death encounter in the book, seeing as the horde will now recognize the party as potent enemies. With one little change, Saarvith is put in charge of the attack on the party in redemption for his failure.

In the meantime I will have Captain Ulverth urge the party to figure out anything they can to stop the Ghostlord from helping the Red Hand. Also, I believe I am going to make the dwarven mercenaries play a slightly bigger role, and have Jaarmath send the party to make sure the gold sent to the dwarves arrives safely. I am thinking to actually have the Marked for Death take place as an ambush at the Mercenary Gold encounter, kinda mix them together. THEN if they defeat Saarvith, they can find a note about his punishment and assignment to kill the party with a mention of the phylactery in the horde.

This way, if the players feel bold, they can try and stealthy infiltrate the horde and steal back the phylactery. I will of course make this very difficult but not impossible. The party has been resourceful, especially the beguiler, in sneaky/scouting situations. Then, with phylactery in hand they can move on to the Ghostlord.

I'm hoping it will work out, but knowing how players are, they may do something completely different. Anyway thanks for the suggestions and let me know what you think of the above.

Sounds like a good course to me. Remember you don't have to push the party down that particular railroad siding depending on your party's VP totals: if the party doesn't disrupt the Ghostlord alliance, what it really means is a potential total loss of 14 VP: 5 from the Ghostlord, 6 from failing to kill Ulwai, and 3 from failing to kill Varanthian. Killing the Ghostlord doesn't actually give you any VP, all it takes is to break the alliance.

Huge as that number sounds, it's not actually a fatal blow. The party only needs 40 VP to win at Brindol. Based on your numbers thus far and without going through your journal again, it sounds to me they've got 14 of those VP already. They destroyed the hatchery and presumably secured the alliance of the Tiri Kitor, and I'm assuming they wiped the bridge, got the Twistusks on board, destroyed the blockade, etc. And that total comes about without killing a single Wyrmlord or dragon.

Even with only 14 VP, the Battle of Brindol itself will automatically give them 10 more VP if they succeed on its encounters; they get 4 VP from delivering the gold; and if they do things reasonably at the Defence Council they should pick up about 8 more. So that's a total of about 36 VP they'll have assembled even if you skip the Ghostlord part of the adventure entirely. If they take out Saarvith, that's 4 VP and they need do no more to defend the Vale than just show up and survive at Brindol given Kharn himself is worth 8 VP. And if the party is still short on VP, Ulwai and/or Varanthian can be shoehorned into the Battle somewhere to give the party even more points.

Remember: if they truly fail at taking down the Ghostlord alliance, the worst things that can happen are that the Ghostlord shows up in the final battle and that the party has to face bonedrinkers in the Streets of Blood encounter. That's all. The 5 VP they lose are pretty insignificant in the scheme of things. and there are very simple behind-the-curtain ways to make the Ghostlord less effective in that battle (chiefly, run him as written on RHOD ... or as you say, just have an undead lieutenant in there instead). Having the party fail to find the Ghostlord or fail to deal with the phylactery is not the end of the world, so don't think you're bound to drag the party through that encounter. Just make sure they somehow get the XP and WBL they'd otherwise have missed at the stone lion.

[Saintheart]

You can expand this if the Lich is protecting an powerful magical node. He might also be subject to a curse or geas keeping him there. Wondrous architecture might further increase his attachment to the location. I'd run him as a lawful neutral druid with the node providing access to undead creating spells.

To protect the phylactery when the players find it I'd make sure they found information about it first. Everyone listens when they start reading a journal about an item that the red hand is keeping ransom when the next page of the report is explosive runes and the journal blows up in their faces.

In fact, if the Ghostlord has access to divination and sending or the like, I would have him contact the PCs as soon as he realizes they are meddling with the Red Hand. I would have him offer information about the forces at rhest if the PCs weren't planning on going there and have him try to arrange a deal with them ahead of time. One of the off color people they meet along the way might be a cultist of the ghost lord. In fact he could even be connected to the druid circle if he is indeed reformed.

Thanks for those thoughts, Fyermind - I'm ignorant on wondrous architecture in particular and have to look into it, but those ideas are well worth turning over.

[Fyermind]

3. The encounter with the hydra is pretty underwhelming. The attackbonus (+6) is too small to pose a serious threat to any decent tank. Ranged will have no problem with burning down HP, even with the fasthealing. Making the hydra a pyrohydra doesn't really improve the situation, because it losses all attacks for a 3d6 fire damage.

I ran a challange a while back for optimizing a hydra and got some great suggestions.

Hydra Strategy:
The hydra stays in the water gaining improved cover until the PCs get within biting range. If they retreat to use ranged attacks it takes total cover. Water blocks line of effect for most purposes, so that should help force them to fight it or go around.

Don't try to make damaging attacks against people in heavy armor, grapple them and pull them into the water. The water is fairly deep, so PCs run a risk of drowning and fighting poorly in the water. This will be interesting if terrifying as an option. See feat suggestions below to make this scarier. (this also explains the suit of armor in the water and could be a reason why they find it)

Adding some squares of slime (DC 10 balance check or slip) to the bridge makes the terrain even more interesting, but is not always appropriate.

Feat reworking:
If players get flaws, you have 5 feats to work with, otherwise you have only three. Extra feats are in parentheses,

Option 1: The grappler
This is a defensive option that deals well with high ACs (and people targetting will saves). It can result in TPKs fairly easily if the party is unable to react to its strategy, but the penalty for grappling multiple targets should help significantly. This is my preference because it makes the fight with the hydra memorably different from every other fight in the Vale.
Feats: Snatch, Improved Snatch, Multi-snatch ( Endurance, Steadfast determination)

Option 2: The Initiator
This is a high damage option if it can get off attacks. It accepts the party will cut through it like butter and deals a lot of damage fast. With surprise it can get two full attacks on of which deals an extra 1d6+3 fire damage with every hit before the party gets to act. After that's over with it will go down easily. This is good if you want to shock the party with a simple quick and brutal fight.
Feats: Martial Study (Burning Blade), Weapon focus, Improved Initiative

Option 3: Lockdown
This build deals with accuracy problems with the +4 extra attack bonus on attacks of opportunity from Deft opportunist. It can create a fairly drawn out fight and can really mess up the day of anyone trying to charge it. Replace Mage Slayer with Iron will or something if you don't want to justify a hydra having ranks in spellcraft.
Feats: Combat Reflexes (B), Hold the Line, Large and In Charge/Standstill, Deft opportunist, (Large and In Charge/Standstill, Mage Slayer)

What if it's a Pyro-/Cryo-Hydra?
Entangling Exhalation will be 6d6 damage every round for 1d4 rounds. It can Nuke them in the first round and then just try not to die too quickly so it keeps the pressure on. Quicken Breath and Martial Study (Burning Blade), combine with PyroHydra to be a fantastic disher of nova fire damage that can certainly drop a PC.

For Nasty DMs only:
Making it really deadly:
This involves allowing questionable feats that it shouldn't qualify for. What if it took Troll Blooded?
Make it a PyroHydra and give it the following feats: Draconic Aura (Energy resistance acid), Toughness, Troll Blooded. It might be dropped by the party, but odds are good that it's coming back. If you can add extra feats, Roll with it for DR or any of the above tricks work quite well.

[Altaria87]

I've just ran the first part of the Battle of Brindol, so I thought I'd share how I did it. I took inspiration from Glyphstone's ideas, with groups of allies that could be sent to each encounter, with varying success, or the party being able to attack a target themselves. However, I expanded it to include many more 'events' to use every part of the Red Hand's forces, with groups of them happening simultaneously.

The allies the party had available in the Battle were:
-The Twisttusks, who were recruited well after the Red Hand had pased the Witchwood when the aprty had spare time after dealing with the Ghostlord, also Wereboars instead of Giants in this campaign.
-The Golden Axes
-The Lions of Brindol, supported by Immerstal and his sphinx-wife
-The Druids of the Elsir Vale (the Tiri Kotor alliance failed, but the Druids fill the same role with their Wild Shape)

I split the battle into five phases, each having different events happening.
Phase One:
-Skullcrusher Ogres bombard the walls at two different points, as in the book but with Skullcrusher Ogres isntead of Giants
-Barghests teleport into the streets of the city and slaughter units of troops in the streets (failure to defeat them would negate the VPs from stationing troops inside the walls)
-Wyverns attack the west walls with the main Red Hand behind them as a distraction (defeating the Wyverns would award and additional 2 VP)
Phase Two:
-Abithriax's Rampage, as in the book with two Redspawn Arcaniss thrown in
-Ozyrrandion and Saarvith (the two bosses that survived the rest of the adventure) attack the north of the city over the river with the Manticores and Sphinxes
-Pash-Kari and a unit of Doom Hand Warpriests teleport into the Cathedral to attempt to kill the Clerics (failure to defeat them would negate the VPs from Clerics inside the Cathedral)
Phase Three:
-Streets of Blood, as in the book, but with the allied regiments having to be stationed on other major streets
Phase Four:
-Skather's attack on the Catheral Square, as in the book
-One of the recurring bosses of the Campaign challenges the PCs to a final battle in the marketplace as the Hand regroup elsewhere in the city
Phase Five:
-The final battle with Kharn, backed up by any of Abithriax, Ozzy, Saarvith, Skather and Pash-Kari who survived their events.

We got through the first two phases in the most recent session. In Phase One the party sent the Twisttusks, Druids and Lions of Brindol all at the two Ogre units bombarding the walls, kept the Dwarves with the main defence force fighting the Wyverns and went to fight the Barghests themselves. The Ogres drove away the Druids with thrown boulders but one group was crushed by a charge from the Wereboars (who were then themselves routed by the ambush force behind the Ogres) and the other group was beaten by the Lion of Brindol. The Dwarves had no success with fighting the Wyverns, lacking ranged prowess. The party beat the Barghests after a long encoutner of the Barghests stealthing between houses and harassing them with spells, which ended in a rooftop chase after the last Greater Barghest.

Phase Two had the party make better choices, sending the Druids and Lions of Brindol both to fight Ozzy and Saarvith (they didn't get the Cathedral event as they decided to have the Clerics throughout the city instead) while they themselves went to fight Abithriax. The Druids drove of the flying creatures as the Lions slew Ozzy (Saarvith escaped) and the battle with Abithriax had the party healer doing overtime, the Swordsage being immolated by Abithriax's breath weapon and the dragon being finally killed by the party's Werewolf shifting and bull rushing him into the side of Kaal Manor.

[Saintheart]

It's when you get responses like this, as an OP, that you end up weeping over the fact that posts have a character limit attached to them, because you can't get everything into the guide at the front.

[Fyermind]

Time for a second edition with more OP reserved posts? I'd love to contribute more to it.

[Saintheart]

I promise I'll give it serious consideration when my party finishes off the campaign. Might be a while, but still, if you've got stuff to add, slap it in here: I'm always reading and making notes for a later iteration even if nobody else is... :)

[BerronBrightaxe]

OP = overpowered I presume?

My party usually averages out at 6 players, and most of them are decent min-maxers. This means I revise most of the battles and upgrade the various NPC's (bosses and mooks) to kill as much of the PC's as possible pose more of a challenge for the party. Atleast, as it turned out, not the Hydra

I don't mind contributing my NPC's and other stuff, if you want/need, Saint (although I mostly use the guide to change them).
I even have some nice prophecies for this dark and impending doom


@Altaria: I really like your set-up. It seems like a good way to manage the battle, combined with set up which Glyphstone used. I'm stealing it

Spoiler

Show

source

Click the green arrow and view the paragraph: 'Streamlining the battle'

Storywise (atleast for mine) I would argue that Pash-Kari and a unit of Doom Hand Warpriests would teleport to Brindol Keep and attack the Captain Ulverth and other army leaders and set the Keep on fire. This will make sense to the RHoD, taking out the commandors of the opposing army.
It also gives you an argument to have the Last Stand at the cathedral, considering the Keep is on fire and the commandcentre has been moved to the cathedral.
But lastly and most important: it makes a genuine argument to put the party in charge of the defense considering there is no one left/they are the most experienced/they have been fighting the goblins for weeks. It also gives you an opportunity to have the party make decisions which 'really' matter (picking the right opponents for the various assaults).


Continuing on the last point: The VP's for 'Audience with the Defense Council have a maximum of 8. As Saint puts it: 'it comes down to a bunch of Diplomacy rolls of bleeding obviance'

I would argue to maximize the VP's for this 'encounter' to 4:

• Don't award 1 VP for the general diplomacy check of 20. If the party hasn't impressed the council with their deeds yet, they should just pack up and go home Dennovar leave the valley. The party are the elite in the valley (except for Immerstal and maybe Tredora), and the council should know this and show respect for their fighting abilities (even when the party barbarian remarks about the hotness of Tredora). This still gives you ample of opportunity for the various motivations of the individual motivations of the councilmembers;
• Bringing up the subject 'in the event that the city walls are breached'. IMHO the council is smart enough to think of this themselves. Ask the party their opinions and implement them in the story;
• award 1 VP if the party can convince the council about not to fight outside the city;
• award 2 VP if the party can convince the council to keep the clerics at the cathedral;
• if they come up with something smart and/or give a good contribution to the defense, award them 1 VP. It is one of the few RP encounters in which they make choices which should matter in the defense of the city. I don't see why coming up smart and solid ideas can't be awarded with a VP.
• have the choices of the party have conquences (see Saint's handbook )

When the battle starts you can use the left over VP to award them when they choose the right allies for the right battle. Eg, for every right choice within Glyphstone's win-lose table award the party a VP. Or whatever fancies your 'VP-awarding-needs'.


anyway.. this is just a short explaination which came to mind. I can work it further out if needed/requested.

Cheers

[Saintheart]

Quick note, but OP = Original Post, or Opening Post. Fyermind's talking about rebooting the whole thread to make the guide at the front a lot bigger. I still have to give that some thought, but in the meantime I strongly encourage people to detail out their ideas and thoughts here, if only so it's on the record if someone does come leafing through the thread for ideas. I am a little behind on some aspects of the guide as it is, and I really wouldn't want a single good idea to go to waste whenit comes to RHOD given all the reaources that were apparently lost when WOTC rebooted their boards.

[RFLS]

Quick (to ask, at least) question: My group just tore down the bridge quite handily. Now, it looks like they're going to try to convince the town to come hold the foundations of the bridge against reconstruction. So...how should I handle this?

[ShriekingDrake]

Quick note, but OP = Original Post, or Opening Post. Fyermind's talking about rebooting the whole thread to make the guide at the front a lot bigger. I still have to give that some thought, but in the meantime I strongly encourage people to detail out their ideas and thoughts here, if only so it's on the record if someone does come leafing through the thread for ideas. I am a little behind on some aspects of the guide as it is, and I really wouldn't want a single good idea to go to waste whenit comes to RHOD given all the reaources that were apparently lost when WOTC rebooted their boards.

I think both ideas are spot on. This superb thread has become a bit cumbersome to winnow out the best advice and a complementary thread may be of significant value. That said, until we have that thread, we don't want to discourage posting. My only worry is that it would be a big job to gather all the fruit from this gift to RHOD and put it on the back of Saintheart, who has already done so much for the boards.

[Ivellius]

Quick (to ask, at least) question: My group just tore down the bridge quite handily. Now, it looks like they're going to try to convince the town to come hold the foundations of the bridge against reconstruction. So...how should I handle this?

Let 'em. It'll be more fun that way.

They'll really feel the time/pressure crunch more strongly if you give them such a useful demonstration of the Horde's capabilities. Obviously they haven't figured how big the Horde is yet, right?

[BerronBrightaxe]

Quick (to ask, at least) question: My group just tore down the bridge quite handily. Now, it looks like they're going to try to convince the town to come hold the foundations of the bridge against reconstruction. So...how should I handle this?

If it is their intention to stay in Drellin's Ferry and wait till the army arrives: just like Ivellius said, let them feel it. If they are just going to sit there, have some goblin patrols scout the area, burn down the west side of the village, etc. (there are some options in the book). Then have the army show up. Just don't award them for being passive.

If you are looking for a more subtile way. Have Townspeaker Wiston ask them to check what is going on in the woods. Or have the Townspeaker send out Jarr, who then comes back with information about the occupied castle and/or approaching army.

I think both ideas are spot on. This superb thread has become a bit cumbersome to winnow out the best advice and a complementary thread may be of significant value. That said, until we have that thread, we don't want to discourage posting. My only worry is that it would be a big job to gather all the fruit from this gift to RHOD and put it on the back of Saintheart, who has already done so much for the boards.

I think it is very good idea to keep improving/expanding the guide. Personally I don't know what the best way is (one or two threads, levels of powerplay, choices, etc.), but I mind helping out/giving it some thought.