The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

[Talesin]

The trick is, my players are, well, martial characters, not adept at planar traveling. While I don't doubt that they'll be able to make it through the Tomb, I don't know how to get them from the Tomb to the second part of the campaign, which is to say, Sigil. Right now the best I can think of is a trap at the Tomb's center that teleports them to Sigil or something.

Bolded part my emphasis.

I realise I may be a little late but the Tomb of Horrors is brutal for any campaign that wants to keep its characters. If they are honestly attached to them I would be careful with running that module.

I ran it with a few friends of mine and on every character death we just chalked up a number, that lead to drinking forfeits later in the evening. We ended up with around 30 or so character deaths.

I appreciate that my players were new and didn't really 'get it' so 30 is an obscene number of deaths, plus their characters were new so the emotional investment isn't there, but there are so many "save or you're screwed" mechanics in there that I would honestly be careful about it.

[Rogue Shadows]

I would honestly be careful about it.

Well, they've known that the Tomb is coming since level 1 (I told them flat-out after the first session that I wanted to end the campaign with it), and I've made sure to constantly impress upon them that a) the Tomb is a known character killer and b) it doesn't kill you with monsters, so they've had ample time to prepare themselves and their characters. I think things should be okay. Maybe.

At the very least their saves are absurdly good, and in the 3.5 rewrite that WotC released had substantially less no-save areas. Plus the WotC rewrite was designed for 9th level characters, but they'll be 11th/12th level.

(But on the other hand, their party lacks a true rogue...)

I plan to throw them a small bone or two, like near the (actual) entrance to the Tomb they'll find Acererak's riddle already written out by a previous adventurer in that adventurer's journal. Of course it's also been covered with Lovecraftian apocalyptic log points like "LIES" and "Black? Blue? WHAT DOES IT MEAN?" and "godssavemegodssavemegodssavemegodssaveme," etc. For ambiance.

Again, I think they'll be fine.

[GreyMantle]

Without re-reading the entire thread: has anyone ever modified RHoD to be a Hexcrawl? While reading chapter 2 and 3, and preparing PF creatures accordingly, I realized that it could be beneficial to divide the Elsir Vale map into 6-miles hexagons. This would make it easier to both track the party and coordinate random encounter while they are chasing various Red Hand operatives.

The only argument against this I can see right now is any way the party gets access to long-range flying early (Overland Flight normally comes online at level 9 for Wizards), which I know very little about, shenanigans like re-animated zomboe creatures aside.

I don't really think that extending the middle of RHoD into a hexcrawl would make it an especially better adventure. As I see them, hexcrawls are primarily meant to be implemented in areas where there is a high density of encounter sites, and the PCs are expected to mostly just meander their way about doing whatever pops into their heads. You want to have a pretty precise idea of where the PCs are at any given point. This idea is canonically exemplified in countless "old school" adventures (or whatever you want to call them).

This is not the case in RHoD, the design principles of which are pretty solidly new school. You have a low density of actual encounters (most of which can be placed almost anywhere), and the players almost always have a reasonably strong idea of where to go next. It matters more that the PCs are en route to the Ghostlord's lair than they are in this specific hex of his wastes. What random encounters there are are usually meant to be brief in duration. Plus, flight can come online really quickly, at which point the hexcrawl has basically been obsoleted. You can zombify the chimera in Drellin's Ferry, and you have a decent chance of getting owls later on.

Basically, if you want to hex-up the map because you think it will help you keep better track of the PCs location, then go for it. But I see the design goals of a hexcrawl as orthogonal to the design goals of RHoD.

[Vorpal_Bunny]

Just wanted to share a few modifications/added monsters.

An alternative for the Draconic Hellhounds later in the campaign would be an Ambush Drake. I've found the hellhounds to be highly ineffective against even moderately optimized pc's, even after fiddling with them.

For the "Marked for Death" encounter, I've developed a Hobgoblin "Hit-Squad"

Kulkor Zhul War Adept (modified, designed around readying actions to disrupt spelcasting with Lesser orb of Electricity)
Kulkor Zhul "Fire Singer" (Replaces the Mind Benders, Bard 7 with dragonfire inspiration optimization)
Hobgoblin Blade-bearer (Chain-bearer Hobgoblin Warblade 6 with a spiked chain focused on Iron Heart, using Martial Maneuver and Martial Stance to pick up Thicket of Blades)
Goblin Outrider (Goblin Ranger 6, with mounted archery feats and natural bond to have a 6HD wolf companion)
Ambush Drake
3 Hobgoblin Regulars (Modified with Phalanx Fighting)
1 Hobgoblin Sargent (Crusader 3, shield-related feats/maneuvers)

Basically the Regulars, Sargent and Outrider are various patrols along the roads waiting to run in to the PC's (High % chance of rolling on encounter table when the PC's use roadways, after the Horde leadership realizes they're dealing with adventurers). The Outriders are equipped with Sending Stones or the like, and stay in the cover of the tree line. Once the PC's engage the grunts, the Outrider signals the Fire Singer. The rest of the hit squad buff, and all swing in with a Scroll of Teleport. If necessary (for example, lack of familiarity for telleportation), the grunts are allowed to be wiped out, while the Outrider continues to track the party, and the Fire Singer scries to assist with "target lock".

I also have a really nice hook worked out to get from Part I to Part II, and will post it when I finally get my players there. The gist of it is that rather than the razorfiend breeding being an operation run by Wyrmlord Saarvith, its a slave-based system running on the captured and enslaved Tiri Kitor elves. Rather than Teyani Sura simply arriving in Drellen's Ferry alone, she's actually found a half-dead Trellara Nightshadow whom managed to escape the slave camp. Again, I'm still fleshing all of this out, but I think it gives the party a better reason to go up north to Rhest, and makes for a more compelling story.

Thoughts?

VB

[Antariuk]

Basically, if you want to hex-up the map because you think it will help you keep better track of the PCs location, then go for it. But I see the design goals of a hexcrawl as orthogonal to the design goals of RHoD.

I didn't mean to change RHoD into a hexcrawl as in making the exploration of unknown territory the main goal, because as you said, that doesn't work all that well here. My idea was to merely borrow the idea of a hex-grid, so you can better track the party off-road.

But chances are you are right, and the party gets access to giant owls/zombie creatures/other means of flying early, so the work would be unecessary. My inner mapping enthusiast seems to have gotten the better of me

For the "Marked for Death" encounter, I've developed a Hobgoblin "Hit-Squad"

Interesting setup! Depending on what kind of party you're dealing with, that should result in a nice ambush, altough some players might see this as an invitation to escalate the "scry & teleport" arms race...

I also have a really nice hook worked out to get from Part I to Part II, and will post it when I finally get my players there. The gist of it is that rather than the razorfiend breeding being an operation run by Wyrmlord Saarvith, its a slave-based system running on the captured and enslaved Tiri Kitor elves. Rather than Teyani Sura simply arriving in Drellen's Ferry alone, she's actually found a half-dead Trellara Nightshadow whom managed to escape the slave camp. Again, I'm still fleshing all of this out, but I think it gives the party a better reason to go up north to Rhest, and makes for a more compelling story.

While it might be easier to ensure that the players will meet a wild elf by connecting that plotline with Drellin's Ferry, you'll lose the feeling of wonder and excitement RHoD proposes by making this a remote encounter, far away from the human settlements. Also, you might get yourself into a small dilemma: if Trellara gets healed up in Drellin's Ferry, guides the players back to the Tiri Kitor camp, only to have the elves refuse to help (in case the players botched their Diplomacy rolls and/or failed to win in Rhest), it'll make them look a lot less likeable. Which might be ok, or you could give the players more points for healing Trellara and guarding her on the way back north, but I'd really think this through in the context of your game.

[Antariuk]

So, during my work on a bare-bones players map of Elsir Vale my Photoshop crashed and corrupted the file...
I decided to do something different in the meantime and made a map of the Witchwood in 1800x1400px.



Unlike the Elir Vale map, I chose to forgo the tree icons, to keep it clearly arranged (also, I believe it's a GM map and not intended as a handout)

[Vorpal_Bunny]

Interesting setup! Depending on what kind of party you're dealing with, that should result in a nice ambush, altough some players might see this as an invitation to escalate the "scry & teleport" arms race...

Thanks! I think the party will be fairly surprised, and will be pretty well challenged by a tactically designed group of opposing monsters.

As for the "arms race"; the only player either experienced and strategically minded enough is playing a Barbarian//Dragon Shaman, and is therefore, incapable of actually enacting such plans.
The only Arcane caster (his wife) is built as a pure blasting sorcerer//rogue, and is both uninterested and unlikely to delve into even utility, let alone scrying or teleportation magic.

In some ways, I'd actually encourage the development of an arms race, to (hopefully) encourage the development of higher levels of play amongst the group. I'd like to think of it as a Einstein–Szilárd letter and hopefully it will work...

While it might be easier to ensure that the players will meet a wild elf by connecting that plotline with Drellin's Ferry, you'll lose the feeling of wonder and excitement RHoD proposes by making this a remote encounter, far away from the human settlements. Also, you might get yourself into a small dilemma: if Trellara gets healed up in Drellin's Ferry, guides the players back to the Tiri Kitor camp, only to have the elves refuse to help (in case the players botched their Diplomacy rolls and/or failed to win in Rhest), it'll make them look a lot less likeable. Which might be ok, or you could give the players more points for healing Trellara and guarding her on the way back north, but I'd really think this through in the context of your game.

With my party, the difficulty might be getting them to explore at all...and I'd be worried, unless I give them horribly obvious hints there is something up there to be encounter, they'd seek anything out at all. Assuming I use the "Break the Roadblocks" hook, the party is likely to do so, then promptly turn tail back to the next safe town, without any ideas of what to do next.

Regarding the diplomacy part; it will be less a matter of "can we convince the Tiri Kitor to help us" and more "will there be enough of them left to actually help". Freeing the elves will greatly endebt the Tiri Kitor to the party, making the task of convincing them to help will be considerably easier.

As of right now, I'm not thinking about having Trellara make it all the way to Drellen's Ferry, but she'll likely be passed out, some distance down the road.

If anyone has some more thoughts, I'd greatly appreciate it.

VB

[Lachdan]

So more feedback from me:

Ray of Dizziness is a horrible debuff for the dragons. After seeing most of them getting murdered as result of it I decided to give at least the last one a wand of ray deflection.

Battle at Brindol
I went with the usual PC as commandos with experience in slaying dragons. They decided to split the clerics and since I wanted to give them access to healing to avoid having them to run away and watch heavily wounded the battle, this meant that Tredora Goldenbrow was commanded to help them.

Save the Walls
I used some Scullcrusher-Ogres instead of the giants to throw the stones at the walls to match the composition of my horde.
Also, since Ozyrrandion and Regiarix and Saarvith were still alive I decided they were far better used in helping the horde attacking Brindol instead of waiting at the fane. They protected one group of ogres each. My players decided to let the cavalry from the north attack Ozyrrandion (which took some damage, but horrible murdered them), while taking on the group protected by Regiarix and Saarvith.
Also it enabled my players to get some more victory points they would have missed otherwise ...

Streets of Blood
I replaced two of the Bluespawn Thunderlizards with Redspawn Firebelcher for some synergie between them (immunity against fire is kinda nice - although the goblins still burned to death). Also they have some different abilities to make the fight more interesting.

Sniper Attack
Instead of the sorcerer, which I think are wasted here and prone to dying really fast in close combat, I used three Blackspawn Raider which made for an interesting fight (and my players were quite happy they did not get sneak attack like my Skather rebuild as Assassin).

Final Battle
I gave my players control over Lars Ulverth and some soldiers still able to fight. The number of enemies was increased (Kharn, Ozyndarrion, one warpriest, one sorcerer, two duskblades, two soldiers, two scullcrusher ogres, four hobgoblin regulars) a bit therefore, but made it possible to play this as a fight to the last, where hobgoblins from all side attacked until Kharn and the last dragon at the battle, Ozyrrandion, had fallen, which made some really satisfied players.

Fane of Tiamat
As I said earlier I switched Tyrgarun to the ghostlor's lair and placed Varanthian at the fane. I used a fang dragon (CR 10: fly by attack, ability focus: con drain, power attack, multiattack, improved multiattack, improved natural attack: bite and claws) for here, and without the help of some empowered maximized fireballs she would have shredded at least half the group. Fang dragons of this level have some nasty spell like abilites ("ray deflection? ok, I use dispel magic on her." "Reflected back.") and the con damage and free trip is dangerous in close combat.
I also used two blue abishai here to give her time to buff herself before combat and prepare my players for devils as enemies with DR and regeneration.

Inside
I cut most encounters out to speed up things. I left the entrance hall with one warpriest, one improved duskblade and five clerics. They were waiting there for the ritual to finish, not awaiting enemies storming the place, so my players had the chance to trick and get the drop on them.
The adjacent breeding chamber for the red- and bluespawn (I used the spawnscale nursery map for this whole encounter), was protected by a Bluespawn Godslayer who entered the fight halfway through, but miseribly failed his roll and got disarmed.

The rest of the fane was deserted, so my players reached the outer sanctum without any more resistance. There they decided to destroy the glowing spheres of arcane and divine energy
So I improvised this would thwart the whole plan of tiamat to open the portal, but as consequence dropped the whole fane in the following destruction to avernus, where now a surprised Azar Khul and two pissed of erinyes will fight the final battle with the pcs (alongside with two red abishai instead of the four blue).

Background
After the battle of Brindol I let the two erinyes sit there and mock the players, how they helped bring the sacrafice tiamat requested to open the portal. The tricky part about this was, that the pact of Azar Khul was about sacraficing all his hobgoblins to gain the portal, unknowingly including himself. So they had to motivate the pcs to come to the fane and slaughter the remaining hobgoblins there (and giving me as gm the pcs motivation for the last part). They would even have gone so far, as to betray Azar Khul in the final battle to let him loose and gaining the aspect therefore.

[Antariuk]

Thanks for that report, Lachdan. I really like the twisted ending... did the players ever find out about this, or was it rather for your own amusement behind the screen?

In other news, I finally got back to fiddling with a sort of bare-bones map of Elsir Vale, something the players might even start the game with, or that they can buy for little money (with the intention that a good map of the vale would be expensive and only available from a few NPCs). Currently, it looks like this:

EDIT: New version below.

Criticism? Ideas?
I think I should reduce the amount of tracks between the villages, and maybe cut the map off at the northern end, so that Rhest would maybe not even be listed...

[Saintheart]

Hi guys -- let me say I've been watching the thread even if I haven't had time to update, but there's lot of stuff you wonderful people have been adding in that I do promise to get into the front of the thread when I can.

I also plan to add my own AAR on the Battle of Brindol ... yes, I'm still running it ... in due course.

On the most recent sketch map, which is a beautiful piece of work:

(a) I'd put in the Thornwaste in the southwest, obviously without any reference to the Ghostlord: the Waste is expressed as a pretty large geographical feature, so it being off the map was a bit curious to me.

(b) I think where the trick comes in as to whether to leave Rhest on the map can be solved by making a decision or to and engaging in more verisimilitude: deciding when this map was actually drawn and for whose purposes. Rhest has been a ruin for about 150 years if I remember right, so much so that only the Tiri Kitor seem to be the ones with immediate knowledge of its location. This is not to say an average scholar or librarian at Brindol's Academy couldn't pinpoint the place after looking through some old books or something, but a contemporary map given to adventurers surely would be the kind of bare bones thing traders or merchants might want to have - as in, locations only of current, existing towns or markets. One way to finesse around this might be by sketching in something along the lines of "Here of old was the kingdom of Rhestilor" in that rough area, so the PCs know there's probably ruins in that direction without pinpointing Rhest's location.

[Antariuk]

Funny you should say that, I was thinking something very similar to that idea... or at least I was considering to write Rhest without ruins, like as a geographical feature because the map's author didn't know where exactly it is.

As a side project I am working on a small storyline about the authors of the latest original of Elsir Vale (which this sketch map is a bad copy of). I thought about dropping hints in Drellin's Ferry, Brindol, and with the Tiri Kitor. Not only could this be used to introduce a little bit of Elsir Vale's backstory, but also to steer players towards the northern blockade, if they left that part out and went strait towards Brindol (Immerstal the Red would drop a hint or two).

EDIT: Ok, new version here. Still too much information or locations?

[Coidzor]

Doesn't seem like too much, no.

[Envyus]

Funny you should say that, I was thinking something very similar to that idea... or at least I was considering to write Rhest without ruins, like as a geographical feature because the map's author didn't know where exactly it is.

As a side project I am working on a small storyline about the authors of the latest original of Elsir Vale (which this sketch map is a bad copy of). I thought about dropping hints in Drellin's Ferry, Brindol, and with the Tiri Kitor. Not only could this be used to introduce a little bit of Elsir Vale's backstory, but also to steer players towards the northern blockade, if they left that part out and went strait towards Brindol (Immerstal the Red would drop a hint or two).

EDIT: Ok, new version here. Still too much information or locations?

I am loving your maps if you make the Fane of Tiamat and the Ghostlord's lair at some point in the future I would love you forever. As I have been unable to find any outside of the Wizards site. (And the Wizard's site version of the maps are small and too low quality for me to use.)

[Antariuk]

I am loving your maps if you make the Fane of Tiamat and the Ghostlord's lair at some point in the future I would love you forever. As I have been unable to find any outside of the Wizards site. (And the Wizard's site version of the maps are small and too low quality for me to use.)

I am definitely planning to do Photoshop maps of the important sites, and a map of Brindol with battle zones to keep an overview, but I can't say exactly when I'll have something presentable. However, it should be fairly easy to reproduce Ghostlord's lair and Fane of Tiamat in Dungeonographer, or (my personal favorite) with the cut-up dungeon tiles from Inked Adventures.

EDIT: The free version of Dungeonographer is available at the far right end of the website's menu.

[Envyus]

I am definitely planning to do Photoshop maps of the important sites, and a map of Brindol with battle zones to keep an overview, but I can't say exactly when I'll have something presentable. However, it should be fairly easy to reproduce Ghostlord's lair and Fane of Tiamat in Dungeonographer, or (my personal favorite) with the cut-up dungeon tiles from Inked Adventures.

Thanks for the recommendations. And feel free to do as you wish. My request is simply to post your maps when you finish them as I am having a ton of trouble finding good maps for Running the Red Hand of Doom.

[Coidzor]

I am definitely planning to do Photoshop maps of the important sites, and a map of Brindol with battle zones to keep an overview, but I can't say exactly when I'll have something presentable. However, it should be fairly easy to reproduce Ghostlord's lair and Fane of Tiamat in Dungeonographer, or (my personal favorite) with the cut-up dungeon tiles from Inked Adventures.

Ah, thanks for the link to Dungeonographer.

Maps so far have been fairly nifty, and this plan of yours seems good too.

[BerronBrightaxe]

Evening all...
I haven't been on gitp much too, had a small brake from the RHoD due to players being away. It seems we are at it again this week. The heroes are currently battleing the goblins in the Ghostlord layer. Wyrmlord Ulwai with her Thunderstaff and her minions are proving to be a challenge

@Antariuk: I like your maps, especially loving the handdrawn one! Keep up the good work
I wouldn't mind to have some general important sites on the map. Considering the setting, the map is made by a scholar/cartographer. Adding important (historical) sites like Rhest and the old Keep north west of Drellin's Ferry would make sense.

[Antariuk]

Thanks Berron!

Regarding the map and what landmarks are visible or not, I think you have to balance between the needs of the adventure vs. the needs for any simulated realism. Of course, you can always introduce different maps with varying degrees of precision, but giving the players exact locations for two of the three sites they are supposed to find on their own (more or less) might unnecessarily speed up the exploration and random encounter part. I'd say if you use a good (as in, more landmarks) map, make it expensive enough to justify its existence. If your players shell out money they could have used to buy a magic weapon instead, they used party ressources to circumvent one/some random encounters they would have met otherwise.

For my game, I am expanding both the ruins or hidden locations in Elsir Vale and the number of maps available. Right now my idea is like this:

- The game starts with a optional trait (I like making custom traits for character generation in my PF adventures) that grants access to an old scetch of Elsir Vale, outdated and not entirely accurate but with one or two clues to hidden sites.

- In Drellin's Ferry and some of the other small settlements the players can buy slightly better maps from trappers or the local spellcasters. It'll be cheap enough to not drain any party that didn't select the trait above and grant almost the same map.

- A number of NPCs (Tiri Kitor, Ghostlord, Immerstal, ...) can provide special maps (or hints ) for secret/forgotten/remote sites that are not available anyhwere else. Since RHoD mentions some druidic folk as the first wave of settlers in Elsir Vale long ago, I placed a number of stone circles in the vale, also some dwarven ruins in the NW, and some feylines and such in the forest areas.
Depending on how successful the players are in recruiting allies, this can be used to a) introduce new forces for possible recruitment, or b) to generate some opportunities to get special items or weapons if the players are far ahead of RHoD's timeline. A third option is to use this as adventure seeds in case my players like to continue RHoD as rulers of the vale - since my potential cadre has some good experience with Kingmaker, I'd like to prepare for that.

On a sidenote, I hope to have my custom RHoD Bestiary available on St. Nicholas day on Dec. 6th!

[fishyfishyfishy]

My players did something totally unexpected last gaming session. They plan to use the Staff of Life on the decaying carcass of the bronze dragon in the Fane. They're hoping it well help make the fights ahead a little easier. Especially since they still have Tyrgarun outside to deal with. I didn't see anything in the adventure about this, I'm guessing the developers assumed the players would have used it by now. I don't see any reason why the dragon would refuse the resurrection...what do you think i should do?

(My campaign takes place in Eberron. So the dragon need not be good alignment.)

[Antariuk]

To be honest, that sounds awesome - as GM, I'd definitely allow it.
My question though is, which bronze dragon? Also, your players sneaked past Tyrgarun into the Fane, finished Azarr Kul, and just want to get back? Just so the situation you're talking about is clear.

You should decide what to do about the level loss from reviving however, maybe reduce the dragon by one age category? And I wouldn't screw the players over by making the dragon totally evil, but selfish enough maybe to ask for a share of the loot? Or maybe it likes to have the Fane as its own lair afterwards? It very much depends on if the dragon is an agent of The Chamber (or of Khyber), of if it's just a rogue dragon without any affiliations towards Argonessen.

[fishyfishyfishy]

To be honest, that sounds awesome - as GM, I'd definitely allow it.
My question though is, which bronze dragon? Also, your players sneaked past Tyrgarun into the Fane, finished Azarr Kul, and just want to get back? Just so the situation you're talking about is clear.

You should decide what to do about the level loss from reviving however, maybe reduce the dragon by one age category? And I wouldn't screw the players over by making the dragon totally evil, but selfish enough maybe to ask for a share of the loot? Or maybe it likes to have the Fane as its own lair afterwards? It very much depends on if the dragon is an agent of The Chamber (or of Khyber), of if it's just a rogue dragon without any affiliations towards Argonessen.

The Bronze Dragon in question is described in the red descriptive text for area 4 (Guard Barracks) of the Upper Fane. I didn't like how the writers intended this temple to be a place where the players could repeatedly attempt to raid, and the enemies inside just kind of stand around in their respective spots waiting for PC's to kill. So I messed with the layout of the place, and removed some unnecessary features. I instead placed it's body in area 11 (Great Temple of Tiamat). It made more sense to me that it would be displayed there.

The players have not faced Azarr Kul yet. They have only been inside for a grand total of 10 minutes. They come across this body and say "Hey lets bring that thing back!". The level loss is not a big deal, I'll just subtract one HD as normal.

There are so many possibilities here so I'm mostly fishing for ideas for what to do.

[Antariuk]

@fishyfishyfishy: If you are still looking for ideas, have you considered contacting Keith Baker himself? He is fairly responsive and IIRC he's still doing his official Eberron Q&A, but a while ago he also answered a question of mine personally via mail.

My PF Bestiary for RHoD is still in the works, had much less time than anticipated...
But I brainstormed a few ideas after it became clear that my players next year would like to start at 1st level. I'll just unload everything here for discussion and critique.

Starting the game with The Sunless Citadel
This idea isn't exactly new, but SC makes a damn perfect introduction to RHoD:

• The desolation caused by Ashardalon can be relocated to the Thorn Waste
• Belak, the BBEG from SC, can be a minion or ally of the Ghostlord. Both are evil (ex-)druids.
• The goblins in SC can be replaced with Red Hand operatives, either to hunt down artifacts for Azarr Kul, or to evaluate if Belak could be used as an asset similar to the Ghostlord.
• Last but not least Ashardalon can easily be linked to Azarr Kul, either by replacing Tyrgarun and making Azarr Kul a red half-dragon, or by reducing the whole Tiamat motif to make some room for Ashardalon as a patron.

Why did the Red Hand send a bard and a behir to watch over the Ghostlord when they have full-fledged dragons at their disposal?
I noticed this when evaluating my PF replacements for RHoD. Considering that the Ghostlord is quite powerful, this makes little sense aside from bardic diplomacy maybe. My solution to this is giving the Ghostlord a downgraded Orb of Dragonkind (or something similar but in line with WBL for the players) - and the Red Hand knows that he has something powerful against dragons up his sleeve, but not exactly what. So instead of risking one of their valueable dragons, they send the "B-Team" (so to speak). This connects quite nicely with my idea of identifying the Thorn Waste with Ashardalon's desolation, so the Ghostlord has actually very good reasons for owning anti-dragon equipment.

Increasing the drama, a.k.a. those rival adventuring parties!
I had good experiences with this in the past, and totally plan to use it in RHoD as well. Not only makes it the world around the players a bit more dynamic, but it can also be used later on to increase pressure in case the players beat the timeline, or open up a sidequest, without having it feel like a deus ex machina. Imagine your party rushing to Brindol to warn everyone of the approaching horde, only to hear rumors about the other band of adventurers rescuing villagers, winning fame and women in the process. If that doesn't cause some daring maneuvers, I don't know what will (in my old game it caused the 2nd-level party to sabotage the 5th-level NPC's reputation, showing a surprising level of comradeship and dedication amongst my players). Of course it shouldn't be overdone to not spoil every victory.

Elsir Vale could use some additonal adventure sites!
There's lot of unused potential here. RHoD menitons druidic folk being the first wave of settlers (so of course we want to have stone circles with magic) and relicts of dwarven civilisation like the main road or some wells, so dwarven ruins make a nice addition, especially in the somewhat empty Giantshield Mountains.

[Coidzor]

Interesting thoughts so far, though it seems like it'd be difficult to bring in rival adventuring parties without them becoming irrelevant, balance changing(having another group of equivalent level characters to the party running around at the Battle of Brindol isn't exactly negligible), enemy agents in disguise, or the rivalry diminishing over the course of play due to having bigger fish to fry in the form of the BBEG.

[Antariuk]

Well, it suffices to create the illusion of another party. Unless you are somewhat insane, or really like the mechanical aspect of d20 games, I wouldn't bother tracking a NPC party behind the screen in terms of what RHoD encounters they might have finished off-screen. They are just there somewhere, given form by reports from other NPCs the players talk to. If they meet at all, grab some 3rd level stats from the NPC Codex, or the Gamemastery Guide - 3rd level player class is enough to rise above commoners, but doesn't pose any serious threat towards the players.

All this needs to do is to create the image of stuff going on while the players are not there. RHoD emphazises that the players are the only heroes around and Elsir Vale will likely fall without them. So you have this approaching threat on one side, with developements and interactions (like delaying the Red Hand's progress), but a very static Elsir Vale on the other side. Everyone is looking to the players to do something, and while this might not be noticed at all within all the stuff going on, it can lead to the phenomenon of player entitlement. I've had the unpleasant experience twice in my GM carreer, where players would run around not taking a single NPC seriously because they didn't think anyone else was even remotely competent. Hence rival NPC groups.

[Lord Ruby34]

I'm going to be running this for a party of three gestalt PCs starting next week, a Warmage//Duskblade, (Dread?) Necromancer//Bard, and an Illusionist (maybe beguiler)//Warblade. I'm happy that the party is nice and thematic, but these PCs will all be at least mid op and will all probably be able to fly. I'm worried about dealing with that, especially early in the module. Does anyone have any advise for the sheer arcane power these guys will be able to throw out?

[broodax]

I'm planning on starting this in a short amount of time here via PbP, but I'm thinking of doing something to lead into it in order to gauge the strength of the party. I'm setting the party in the vale to begin, and thinking of utilizing the totally open-ended bit of goings-on in Elsircross to provide some adventures to take the party from 4th to 5th level before sending them into the larger adventure. If anyone has any ideas, or has done small encounters prior to running the published stuff before I'd love to hear it.

So this is a minor thing, but it is really annoying me. The very first encounter is set on a road with the party travelling South/South-East. I cannot imagine any way that this would happen in the context of the adventure's preferred hook, as the only way they could get in that position is if they'd already traveled through town looking for something, somehow not found anything (or learned anything in town on their way through), including somehow walking past this very spot with no encounter the first time, given up, and turned back.

Why couldn't they have just made the map with the party arriving from the south!? I suppose they expect your party to be entirely new to the Vale, coming from some unknown area to the north?

[Coidzor]

The Mountains to the North of Brindol (Giantshield, was it?) might provide some opportunity for doing a bit of shake-down as well as throw in a hook to get them to check things out on the other side of the Vale by having something like agents of the Hand doing some recruiting and they foil it or uncovering evidence of some horde gathering in the west.

[Antariuk]

I'm planning on starting this in a short amount of time here via PbP, but I'm thinking of doing something to lead into it in order to gauge the strength of the party. I'm setting the party in the vale to begin, and thinking of utilizing the totally open-ended bit of goings-on in Elsircross to provide some adventures to take the party from 4th to 5th level before sending them into the larger adventure. If anyone has any ideas, or has done small encounters prior to running the published stuff before I'd love to hear it.

I made good experiences with "3 Days to Kill", an adventure from the d20 Penumbra line of Atlas Games, and I planned to include it in RHoD as a possible sideplot or something. It is a fun special-ops mission in the wilderness with a small town as plot center, so adapting it to Elsircross should be a no-brainer. You need to up the NPCs for 4-5th level, but I say it's worth it.

So this is a minor thing, but it is really annoying me. The very first encounter is set on a road with the party travelling South/South-East. I cannot imagine any way that this would happen in the context of the adventure's preferred hook, as the only way they could get in that position is if they'd already traveled through town looking for something, somehow not found anything (or learned anything in town on their way through), including somehow walking past this very spot with no encounter the first time, given up, and turned back.

I think the encounter is easily relocated around Drellins Ferry in the direction most suitable for your needs. I will start my RHoD game with Sunless Citadel located at the north-western end of the Thornwaste , so the party will go east and be ambushed south of Vraath Keep and west of Drellins Ferry.

Why couldn't they have just made the map with the party arriving from the south!? I suppose they expect your party to be entirely new to the Vale, coming from some unknown area to the north?

Easy: because then the players would likely have met the dwarven mercenaries before, and maybe even crossed the Thornwaste. It is intended for these locations to appear later and with the aspect of exploration, so I guess that is a problem with parties coming in from the south (although you could increase the scale a bit and let them go north in a safe corridor).

[broodax]

I think I may have mis-stated my question before, but I think I have it figured out. I'll move the encounter east of town, and just rotate the map 180 degrees, but still, I don't quite get the original layout. I also think I have a good lead-in, I don't think I'll use the adventure you mentioned, as it seems to really only fit a certain type of... flexible party, but it gave me a couple ideas.

Reading through, I notice the holes in the hooks that others have mentioned before. One thing I don't see, though, is a hook to go see Old Wargleknuckle, or whatever his name is. Why would the PCs ever go down the path to where he is? The text mentions a couple ways they might think to get up to view what's going on in the north, but not this one - and why is this not a path across the gorge, there's a trail marked on the map, i.e. why does the red hand go east around the gorge?

Edit: I see, there is a note later stating that the passes on that trail are difficult. So, again, why would the PCs ever go that way?

Edit2: I just added up some treasure figures in the first part of the book. A party of 5 pcs looks to get about double the amount of treasure they should before they reach level 6. That's without the staff and the sword.

[Myrmeron]

Hey everyone,

you have gathered awesome material for RHOD here. Its unbelievable how much this improves an already very good module.

To be honest, I havent startet dming this module yet but with all the extra material I just cant wait to start. I am going to run this with fantasy grounds and started preparing the maps and stuff ahead of time.

Rescaling the map for the blackfens I wondered if its scale can be correct? On the elsir vale overview map the fens are roughly 90 mile in diameter. On the more detailed map of the blackfens itself it is suddenly not more than 25 miles?

Am I missing someting or is the scale on the blackfens map way off?