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  1. - Top - End - #1381
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Not especially, but the main use of the distances in the module is for the purposes of running down the clock before the Red Hand arrives at Brindol. If you honestly wanted to fudge the distances and just imply "the Red Hand is X fractions of total distance from Brindol" at various points in the campaign that would work just as well.

  2. - Top - End - #1382
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    SleepyShadow's Avatar

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    I know I ran a pretty heavily modified version of RHoD for my campaign, but since I had the siege taking place in Crab Clan territory it made more sense for the defenders to have a realistic chance holding back the baddies. Heck, the lowest grunts of the Crab army are trained and equipped to slay demons and other such monsters. Even with Kaiu Wall getting breached "for the first time in a thousand years", the Red Hand needed to pull out of the city once Kharn and Abi were dead, since they had just put themselves in a killing jar with an army of berserkers and demon slayers.

    I guess what I'm saying (in a rambling sort of way) is that DMs just need to establish the defenders as competent. Give the Hand a reason why it would retreat and regroup after the PCs kill Kharn.

  3. - Top - End - #1383
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    It's worth remembering that this is for most intents and purposes a medieval army. The chain of command is inefficient (Hand has little in the sense of magical communication for example; messages are most likely largely relayed by mounted messengers making for long response times), the morale depends on the leaders and figures of power, etc. There's a reason you win a game of chess if you capture the king - a medieval army would desert and flee at that point.

    To that end, with both massive figures of power, Abithriax and Kharn, dead the morale would plummet. Azarr is the ultimate leader, yes, but the commander-in-chief is Kharn. Also, the chain of command would be severed. In the chaos of battle, losing leadership would be devastating and half the army would be moving in old commands not even aware of the death while others might try to take command (contradictory orders abound), others would panic and try to escape or turn to looting, etc. Not to mention monsters like Ogres, Giants, Wyverns, etc. who seem mostly motivated by the promise of riches (as per the prequel adventure). The average soldier has no idea of the big picture. Even if the Hand were winning, they wouldn't know that and couldn't act accordingly. All this considered, I find it believable that the Hand wouldn't be an efficient fighting force if the high command falls.

    That said, I would expect for at least much of the remaining Hobgoblin contingent to make a run for the mountains to regroup. Which I think is a more pressing reason for the final chapter than anything. Hobgoblins without strong leadership will go back to infighting and struggling for dominance (see the pre-Azarr state of affairs). Thus, to remove the threat the party needs to beat the retreating forces to the punch (or fight through them) and sever the head of the dragon or annihilate the scattered army utterly.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2018-07-24 at 12:33 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #1384
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    TotallyNotEvil's Avatar

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Is there some value in using PF monsters here?

    They tend to be generally hardier and tougher than 3.5, in my experience.

  5. - Top - End - #1385
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by TotallyNotEvil View Post
    Is there some value in using PF monsters here?

    They tend to be generally hardier and tougher than 3.5, in my experience.
    The Pathfinder section of the handbook is fairly scant on details, I admit. About the only advice I had on it was from one guy who'd run it in PF and said that essentially characters in PF are slightly higher in ECL, so the adventure would have to be adjusted for it. It's probably not a bad suggestion; araneas under PF apparently get much more interesting at least.

    On a very quick look, hobgoblins in PF are tougher than 3.5, mainly because they take fighter levels rather than NPC warrior levels. They've got twice the hitpoints and a little more AC, but they're still made of suck because of their selected feats: Weapon Focus and Toughness. 11 hitpoints rather than 6 just means they survive 2 rounds rather than one. What makes hobgoblins more dangerous is when they effectively use tactics and have better feats that suit them.

  6. - Top - End - #1386
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    My group is in the Battle of Brindol. Warblade, Crusader, Wizard at 9th, plus Druid, Bard at 8th.

    I bumped Abithrax a size last session, and gave him max HP, no other changes.
    It was going badly for the players. The Animal Companion was doing a LOT of damage, and they were on a rooftop, so he went for a Powerful Blow to knock it off the edge. Abithrax rolled a Nat1 (in front of the players) and failed.
    Then he failed his save vs Glitterdust. He took another round of damage, used his Breath Weapon - which could have dropped the Warblade, Crusader and/or Tiger if they had failed their saves, and jumped into the air with about 40hp remaining. Warblade rolled a nat20 on the AoO with a dwarven war axe, confirmed, and dropped him.


    Tonight. Streets of Blood - Wave One.
    I setup the map, gave them a long 30' wide street with buildings on both sides. Lions of Brindol on the rooftops with their bows. Threw a ballista in the back manned by a couple guys. I didn't even look up the stats, just gave it +8 to hit and 4d6 damage. Barricades in the street manned by 24 commoners with spears, plus Captain Lars.
    Told them a horde of hobgoblins (100) was coming around the corner 200' away. All the standard hobbs this whole campaign have had 14hp, so these did too.

    Wizard put up a wall of Stone blocking most of the street - between the Hobgoblins and the barricade.
    Captain Lars and the Warblade and Crusader moved up to just behind it. Druid told her Tiger to guard Lars.
    Wizard used his next-to-last last fireball, taking out 30 hobbies. Ballista and the archers shot at the manticores, Druid used call lightning on them.
    Stuck a Warblade Hobgoblin in with the hobbs, to Mountain Hammer the wall section while the regular hobbs poured through the gap and died in great droves to AoOs, Mithril Tornado from the party Warblade, Fiery Burst from the Wizard, etc.

    Wizard stuck his nose in view of the Manticores, got spiked, and dropped to single digit hitpoints. Other than that, I don't think they took 20pts of damage between the whole party. A few peasants died to random arrows shot over the Wall of Stone from the back of the pack and the 2nd manticore dropping on them when it ran out of spikes, and some of the Lions had to drink their potions.


    Running it. I have several hundred tiny (fit in a 1" square) poker chips in various colors - 50 to a color. White and Yellow were unwounded hobbs, with about 15 actual minis for the front rank to make it look good. If they got wounded, they got a pink chip stacked on top. Crusader, Warblade (with 1pt of PA), Tiger, and Captain Lars all can't fail to kill a hobb with the bard singing, so I only had to track ones hit by arrows or who survived a Fiery Burst. If it had a chip and it got hit again, it died.
    None of them have Combat Reflexes, so I could just sacrifice hobbs to get more past them, but the bottleneck was still a problem.

    Same with the Lions for tracking damage. They got a pink chip stacked by them for every 5hp of damage, rounded whichever way I felt like at the time. 7 chips=dead, which none of them got to.
    Peasants are behind the wall out of view AND behind partial cover.
    At the beginning, the hobbs rolled a couple attacks on everyone - volley fire over the wall. Pairs of d20s for the Lions (hobbs could see them on the rooftops) and visible players. Peasants were rolled en masse. Miss chance says one roll per peasant for 2 arrows, and they had partial cover as well, so I rolled a bag of 24d20, and killed a peasant for every 18+. I halved the rolls the 3rd round, and just shot at visible people on rounds 5+.

    3.5 hours of playtime later 93 hobbs are dead, one manticore is dead, the other has single digit hp and is getting zerged down by peasants with spears. The Hobb warblade has knocked down 2 5' sections of the Wall of Stone with Mountain Hammer, and is untouched (he's been outside the wall the whole time).

    We called the session for time, and I revealed 2 Stone Giants and 3 "big dogs with riders" in the distance for the next wave. I'll hit them in about 5 rounds, which should just give them enough time to clean up this wave and drink a potion or two.

    The druid is actually OUT of spells. She has a wildshape left and was poking through the books looking for a good form - She's buffed to the nines, so melee time, plus a couple remaining shots on Call Lightning. NPC cleric is flying, running Sanctuary and playing healbot with her wand. PC Wizard has a Cloudkill, a Mirror Image, and a Fireball (reserved for making Fiery Burst work), plus Magic Missiles on a wand. Bard has a single 3rd level slot (knows Haste, so it'll be useful when he uses it), and his shortbow, and he can fly.

    The melee types are loving it. Racking up big killcounts on their own merits, instead of just cleaning up after the BFC goes down.
    Casters are a little frustrated by the lack of rest. Stone giants bombing the wall, then the dragon, and straight into the Streets waves, with no rest.
    They asked (meta) how many waves. I gave them a bit and told them "several, but there would have been a razorspawn wave and a ghost lion wave if you hadn't stopped those". They cheered.

    I'll drop some scrolls before Kharn.

  7. - Top - End - #1387
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    So. Been a while since I've posted as I've been running the Final Battle. God was that a ride.

    To begin, have a look at the City Battlemap

    Spoiler: Image
    Show


    So, I broke the siege up into 5 days, with the 5th day being the assault. This helped me plan out the siege quite nicely and allowed both the Redhand and more importantly the players to adjust and see how effective the Redhand was. The players previously had set up the locations of all the troops, while I did off screen rolls for there effectiveness and the PC's give basic orders if need be.

    This gave it an element of tactical gameplay but didn't make it the primary focus, which my players did enjoy, especially the one who likes the army fighting games. They especially like it when they got to see how their tactics played out against a proper army. Their biggest achievement was keeping the Owl Riders back to only be used as anti flyers. Until the assault began, the Defenders of brindol held air superiority which did a lot of good for them.

    So for some key things I noticed as I ran a couple encounters out of the Box with my main party and did the entire battle of brindol out of the box with a diffrent group. I found that the out of the box was a slugfest, and only a slugfest if you had standard characters. A five member party, barb, fighter, wizard, cleric, monk. The front line people spent all there time fighting non-stop while the casters did nothing but shoot crossbows as they wanted to save there spells until the big battle.

    This made things drag on. But when they encountered Kharn and his goons. The frontline kept the goons back while the two casters anhilated Kharn in two turns. All he got to do was try and charge someone. Honestly, the out of the box I didn't find that enjoyable.

    And one thing that my test group hated was the Sniper encounter. They hated it simply because they felt it took away their player agency. "Who was this guy?" "How did he get past our line?" where the two big complaints. Honestly the encounter itself I didn't find to fun and it felt like it was just thrown in.


    So! I took all their feedback and basically redid the enetier battle of brindol. Only One encounter remained the same. The 'Streets of Blood' everything else was diffrent.

    Spoiler: My battle of brindol
    Show
    The Assault I split up into 7 Phases, each phase had multiple objectives (except for the last 2) that the party can split up on, or hope that the soilders/heros elsewhere in the city can deal with it. This made them extremly paranoid and forced them to make quick decesions. They, of course, went to the 'most important' or the 'hardest' sounding objectives. They even split the party at one point which was lots of fun.

    Phase 1 was a three pong assault. One at Eliser Gate which was lead by a 'war machine' that the Redhand had got operational. That was the parties target as well, it could break down the wall and gate like nothing. They had fun stuffing the exhaust pipes. The second was the entire southern wall which was just a push of ladders and siege towers. The third was the king's gate/bridge. The party took on the Titan and the main walls. Unfourantly for them, the soldiers defending the bridge where not up to the challenge of fighting elite troops. In the end, they killed the titan, and held the southern walls. Unfourantly the Elisr gate was breached, the King's gate fell and a different section of wall on the east side was exploded.

    Phase 2 was Abbys Rampage which started with him nose-diving into the keep, and destroying it, plus everyone inside. That tanked moral and made him target #1. The Redhand Regroups, which was a basic series of harassing the redhand as they try to get order in their ranks. The Tirikitor elves did well there. And the 'Mauraders in the Streets' which was the Redhands 'allies' rampaging around. They killed no one because there was no one to kill in that section of the city. Instead, they stole stuff. Much fun was had. So, players murdered Abby after a fairly epic fight. Took them a couple rounds. But a dragon slaying lance from the cavalier finished him. Many cheers to be had.

    Phase 3 started when a second, even bigger, red dragon showed up. With a friend/PC who was separated from the party since Chapter 2 of the campaign. Renuin was had, fears where alleviated as the Senile Red dragon was helping brindol. Unfourantly, all the big dragon do be attacked mooks. Anyways, in this section, there was 'Broken Bodies' which was an encounter that functioned as a base defence/escort mission to protect the cathedral of Wee Ja and help the priests get out with the tablets that prevented the undead from being raised in the city. As the Redhand... really... really.. wanted to raise some dead (Undead Dragon Anyone?), there was also the Streets of blood, which was unchanged, and another called 'The Chosen March' which was basically a harder street of blood. Players, however, saved the tablets preventing any necro bro from being a necro bro. The Pike Mercs that where hired came in the clutch at the streets of blood, and the Cavalry lead by lord Jarmath annihilated the Chosen. It was a pretty epic phase.

    Phase 4 was the 'Sniper Attack' which I changed a bit to include a character that the players where familure with and making it so if the players had gathered enough moral. That the NPCs may deal with it on there own. With a wopping 17 Moral bonus those NPCs beat the ever loving snot out of that assasain. Then there was 'We Meet Agan' which was Devil Mihar making a gate in the middle of brindol academy (idea stolen from here) this went uncontested as no one was in that part of the city, but confused raiders who were still looting. F

    Phase 5 was "The Dragon Lies" which was also stolen from this thread. And was Obby disguised as one of the nobels luring the party away from the main fight? This was the one encounter that made the party feel (besides final battle). Mostly because Obby killed all the Forest Giants, and a few of the players liked them quite a bit. In the end. Obby turned out to be more formidable than the other bigger dragon, having lasted much longer and not being goaded into fighting on the ground. In the end, though, they were killed. And all was well in the world.

    Then phase 6 happend. The force of brindol where all holding or trying to hold at around the green space in the centre of the city, having nowhere to go, all the forces of the redhand besides 1 tenth that was busy distracting the big dragon trashing the walls and city. Was there. And the party had to get to them. So this was a 'runaway' sort of ordeal with the side objective of helping friendly troops along there way. The party did a pretty good job saving a handful of troops, about half of the total they could save.

    Phase 7 'A Hero's stand" was an even more intese streets of blood, this time however it was fought at the steps of the cathedral and lasted 20 rounds of carrange. Only to end when the big bads and their honour gaurd showed up. Party went to intecerp them while there friends/brindols heros held the line. And when the party rushed out to meet the bosses in glorious combat. A new edition I added 'Commander Evollik' telported the bosses to the top of the cathedral steps and they went inside, leaving the party shocked and forced to chase after them.

    Phase 8, the final battle began. They had to deal with General Kharn, Commander Evollik, Dradetch the Vengful and two Chosen (the Armored ogers where whiped out early on, so Kharns escort where not present, same with Evolliks). Kharn was stated to be something of a cleric and a warblade. Evollik was a full on the sorcerer and Dradetch was warlock/fighter combo. Level 14, 11, 12 respectfully. Evollik went to the centre of the room to destroy the last of Brindols magical defences. I simply decided that to be the case to help explain why the redhand would even try to take the cathedral. The players had no idea what she was trying to do, just knowing it was probs bad news.

    But they had to get past the 2 chosen, big man Dradetch and General Kharn who was quickly nicknamed Pink Thanos because of his wicked chin and jaw. So, the party rushed big man Dradetch, killing him before hecould use any of his speical abilities, while the Only caster and her bodyguard distracted Pink Thanos. Pink Thanos had some monologue, and cut down the body guard in 2 attacks, turing the once proud guard into burnt flesh. causing the caster to lose it, and silence in the chat room.

    The following turn, Evollik had managed to do what she had to, but it was too late, she got KO by the monk and Jarmmaths totally not lover. And, then Pink Thanos had his rear end handed to him as every single player just attacked him. He surpisngly lasted long enough to almost kill the caster. Got her down to 3 HP before fire and acid, fire and diease damage killed him.

    All in all, it was 7 round battle and the players loved it.



    What I took from the entire exspirnece is that realisim is good. This is a battle, the players cannot do everything, plus its a battle which is 100% not fair, they are outnumbered 4 to 1 in my version and easily anywhere from 3-11 to 1 in the out of the box (depends if the citizens of brindol fight or not) plus more then 80% of the defenders. Are Militia. Not soilders (unless you change things up) that are going up against a blooded army of soilders who are all willing to die.

    I made this clear to my players, they wanted to just evacuate the city, but when the citizen basically said "No this is our home" they knew they couldn't leave. So they mounted a last defence. One they knew was likley to fail. That plus giving the players control over how the battle would play out byt letting them build barricades, set up strong points. Position troops and make orders/heads of diffrent sections. Made them feel like this wasn't just some scripted battle, but one that they could influence the outcome.

    And influenced it they did. I wished that I kept track of the kills because the two units which saved the day where the Mercenary Pikes who singal handled between three groups of 100 soilders held off half the army until the very end. All because the players said "We want those pikes to be used to block up the streets when everyone retreats, they will not take part in thewall defence" and thats what they did. And they had a group of elite mercnary crossbows "Reggies Rangers" which were postioned on the western walls. They alone nearly halted the redhand and did stop every single attack until the main assault.

    When I told my players all the things that their previous actions effected like the difficulty of some battles, and the apperance or lack of in diffrent parts of the battle. It only made the game more enjoyable for them, as they got to see first hand how their actions affected the course of the battle. Which for me was the best part?

    All in all, I thank everyone who gave suggestions to me, and this guide otherwise I doubt it would have been so epic. Now.. well, I get to throw the party into the Civil War that the Wyrmlord is dealing with. As his entire power structure just crumbled around him and the loyalists to the old ways are well... the ones who stayed to 'hold the fort' so to say.
    Last edited by kuhaica; 2018-10-17 at 10:15 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #1388
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Well, that sounded like a really enjoyable battle - thanks for the AAR describing it!

    I particularly like the move of having Abithriax rain destruction on Brindol Keep, which then imposes a big morale penalty on everyone in Brindol. That's a lot more thematic and effective than him just wandering around random city blocks setting fire to the place.

  9. - Top - End - #1389
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Glad you enjoyed. It wouldn't have been possible without this amazing thread though. As for Abby destroying the keep. I felt i had to for two reasons. One because the final battle should take place in the cathedral. And why would you if you got a perfectly good keep? And two. I wanted Abby to be scary, not just hunting down random people in the city.

  10. - Top - End - #1390
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    How did you run the encounters? Did you have preset values for success and failure or did you actually play them out? Did PCs allocate the allied forces or was it a joint effort with the city leadership complete with some Diplomacy rolls?
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2018-10-22 at 04:49 AM.
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  11. - Top - End - #1391
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Hi Playgrounders,

    First, thank you Saintheart and all who participated in this thread for this trove of informations on this module.

    I already ran it once successfully a few years back and I'm now preparing to do it again, but I want to twist it.

    First I want to use Eberron as a base, I read AslanCross take on it, and really liked it. But I also saw some suggestions to use Warforged and the Lord of Blades as major Villains and here's where I'm stuck.

    I am utterly undecided as to which villains I might use, I have 3 major options to stick to eberron's flavor :

    1- AslanCross hobgoblin horde and Tiamat planar prison, it's the easiest as I can simply yoink a lot of ideas from his campaign journal (again, excellent work).

    2- Warforged : I can see that as fitting eberron very well, but I struggle to find diversity in the ennemies the player might encounter, simply adding the living construct type to the different monsters is probably the easier but I can't justify it easily (why did the different countries not use such monsters during the Last War, who might construct these and so on), and simply using construct is problematic for another reason as it will be much harder for sneak attackers and critical focused builds.

    3- Daelkyr : I could replace all the hobgoblins by aberration (dolghast, and dolgrim as fodders, and bigger aberrations as monsters). Everything revolving around freeing a daelkyr lord. the problem I have with this is the structure of the army. aberrations are not known for their discipline so a large, ordered army is kinda hard to believe.

    What do you guys think? any ways to make the Warforged idea more diverse or the Daelkyr one work?

    though it's not really relevant I will be using 3.p as a system.

    Thank you for your help.

  12. - Top - End - #1392
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    Vorpal_Bunny's Avatar

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Illithids could form the command and control structure of the army, some of which could be enthralled hobgoblins etc...

  13. - Top - End - #1393
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Ok, so continuing on the subject, I made some progress to adapt the module to a Xoriat invasion.
    Here are the changes I would make to the enemy roster :


    Hobgoblin Regular => Dolgrim Regular (Figt 2) they will be more dangerous, having more attacks (2 times more in fact) with the same attack bonus. They will also be sturdier thanks to the RD 5 / Byesh or Magic

    Hobgoblin Veteran => Dolgrim Veteran (Figt 4 or Figt 2/Warblade 2)

    Goblin Worg Rider => Dolgrim Wolf Rider (Rang 3 with mounted combat combat style). Again, more attacks, still small size.

    Worg => Wolf, Warbeast (MM2), Spellwarped (MM3). Stronger, Aberration type, more resistant (AC, SR etc...). Same HD and CR.

    Hell Hounds => RuneHound (MM3) same CR, but more damage, and stronger over the board (no immunities to fire though).

    Doom Priest => Half Daelkyr Priest of the Dragon Below, not much changes there, except that with the Dragon Below domain they gain the Augment Summoning feat, meaning they will use the summon monster line of spell more often (maybe replace the celestial or fiendish versions of animals by a pseudo natural one (complete arcana)).

    Doomfist Monk => Probably dolgaunt unarmed swordsage, they will be appropriate in the ghostlord lair with the bonedrinkers replicating their abilities and appearence.

    Mindbender => Illithid straight out of the box they have the same CR and alost similar abilities.

    War Adept => Half Daelkyr Wilder 6 will have the ability to enhance his destructive faculties through the roof.

    Greenspawn Razorfiend => I was thinking of using the Khyton from BoVD, the impaler is roughly the same CR as the razorfiend, and a hatchery is thematicaly appropriate for the Khytons.

    Bloodghost Berserker => I was thinking of replacing them by the standard Qaraphon (from MM3) for 1 more CR, but they are brutal, so I'm not totally sold on that.

    Karkilan the Minotaur => Spellwarped so he can be an aberration and gain some resistances.

    Koth => I was wondering if I should make him a Grell Sorcerer 6, or something monstruous like that.

    Saarvith => Dolgrim Marksman 7 (the pathfinder version of it from dsp), probably a volley archer. Lots of attacks, I'm just looking for a creature to replace Regi.

    Abithiriax => As saddening as it is, I was considering changing him for a Beholder, switching the Save or Dies ray to "lesser" spells, one could do a fireball instead of the finger of death. A normal Beholder is CR 13, for the CR 10-11 of Abi, so removing the SoD spells should lower the CR enough for it to be similar.

    This is a rough first draft, let me know what you think or if you have some suggestions.
    Last edited by Abzalon; 2018-10-29 at 08:13 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #1394
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    How did you run the encounters? Did you have preset values for success and failure or did you actually play them out? Did PCs allocate the allied forces or was it a joint effort with the city leadership complete with some Diplomacy rolls?
    For the larger encounters where hundreds of units/tokens and were players are involved I gave them the choice percentiles or playing through it. When using percentiles, I'd allow each player to roll 3 base attacks and have them tell me any special actions or spells/items they would expend. This would effect the bonuses that the friendly forces have. If they choose to play it out, I'd center in on thr players and have them simply try to preform the objective.

    For all but one large encounter (being an assailt against the walls) the players choose percentilesyo fast track it. Meanwhile they played out all the other encounters as the ones they went to where designed to be proper encounters akin to meat grinders.

    As for the encounters they didn't preform in and the massive battle. It was all percentiles. I stated each unit and based on the bonuses they had. I'd roll up all there attacks prior to the session and keep track of it. Of course keeping some leanway incase players did something silly or smart. The best example being they saved about 30 units from death. By just abandoning a section of the city. While this hit moral. It proved to be the right move.

    For troop placement, that was done during the "Meeting of the Lords" i felt the modules 'roll some checks to stop people from being dumb' was no fun. So i split it into two parts.

    Part one was resource allocation and alliance building. Part two was troop placement and taticts. All of whicj required diplo checks and thought out arguments to counter some of the NPCs own ideas.

    Part one gave the players the option to make extra defenses, improve the defenders or create equipment. Even a combination of sorts if they made there arguments well enough. Some of the bigger aspects they did during this time was harvest the crops which would prevent brindol from starving after the war and moving the refugees into the city. Which made it almost impossible for the Redhand to get spies into the city during the last moments.

    Part two was the tricky part. As some of the players where not strategists. So i had to at times argue with myself between npcs about ideas. Then the players broke the stalemate or put foward there own ideas. Some major things they did was making the cathedral the hospital, allocating pikes and Calvary as reserves (this saved the day) and spreading out the Lion Guard and important NPCs to act as officers and sargents. Along with all the troops placement.

    Meanwhile during the battle each PC was deemed an officer so they could order small groups of soilders to move to diffrent locations or request other units to move. Which both hurt them at times, and saved them during other times.

    All of this needing diplo checks with some nice RP flavor.


    Sorry for the late reply btw

  15. - Top - End - #1395
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    The Mod Wonder: Bump.
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  16. - Top - End - #1396
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Thanks Mark. Just a minor comment:

    Therefore: the ritual creating the portal requires a very, very large blood sacrifice in Tiamat's name. That sacrifice was made in the Red Hand's assault on Brindol: win or lose, many hobgoblins lost their lives on the city's wall, and every drop of blood shed was part payment of the price to open the doorway.
    When I did RHOD years ago, I used this, and chose to make the blood sacrifice idea more tangible from the start by giving every Red Hand soldier a "blood mark" on their hand.

    (In Eberron you would want to make this a special dragonmark.)

    Anyone who carried the mark, which of course doubled as the compulsory initiation stamp of the Red Hand, would be contributed to the blood sacrifice upon their death. Only the clergy of Tiamat were aware of this fact.

    I liked this idea because it a) provides a big, campaign-long payoff when the function of those marks is finally revealed, b) gives a more concrete mechanism for the blood sacrifice, and c) makes the "hand" iconography more prominent and adds another meaning to the title of the module.

    And even if the players find out about this ahead of time, what are they going to do, not defend Brindol? It's a twist that doesn't put the overall plot in jeopardy.

    ---

    I also had the giant owls carry the Tiri Kitor in baskets (almost like wicker birdcages) just because I'm a horrible physics stickler.


    By the way, here's a picture I found at some point of Abithriax stoking up the Horde.
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-03-25 at 11:53 PM.

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Oh, thanks for the bump, Mr Moderator!

  18. - Top - End - #1398
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Perhaps of interest: CoffeeIncluded ran the promised one-shot to take down the Ghostlord back in… September I think it was?

    This is a ‘continuation’ of the game where the greenspawn razorfiend killed Tiamat, set ten years after the Red Hand’s conclusion. As always, this is filtered through a very imperfect memory.

    Spoiler: A note on optimization
    Show


    Please keep in mind that this party is on the very Low-optimization end of the spectrum. Parties doing smart things like dispel magic or long-term buffing would have likely steamrolled the Ghostlord, but he was the perfect level of challenge for the group.

    Edit: well, low-op save for the warder. She brought ghost touch weaponry, actual plans, and common sense.



    Spoiler: The Party
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    Ten extra years bumped everyone up to level 13.

    Halfling Wizard- Named his daughter Tiamat. No, we aren’t sure why Mrs. Wizard let him.

    Warder-pathfinder tank class. Dragged along on revenge plots despite having small children at home.

    Paladin/Favored Soul- our other melee. Very unhealthy revenge obsession with Ghosty.

    Druidic Avenger/Walker in the Waste- very very blasty. Basically made the Fane of Tiamat her dungeon.

    Captain Bubbles- Angsty teenage razorfiend, insists on being called “Godslayer”



    Spoiler: Before the Ghostlord
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    After some “get the gang back together” shenanigans, which I would love to ramble about but are not of interest here, the party arrived at the Stone Lion. Aside from the wind whistling through the ribs of Varanthian’s desiccated skeleton, all was quiet.

    Too quiet.

    Then the Ghostlord’s perimeter trap went off and absolutely toasted the Good characters. (And left the neutrals pretty crispy too.) I think this was there the first time, but was perhaps bumped up to accommodate our new level.

    So without having seen hide nor hair of an enemy, the party was already bloodied- and we’d lost the element of surprise.

    And when they got inside- drifting around the hall like jellyfish in an aquarium were about a metric too-many ghost dire lions. Our Paladin was quick-thinking enough to cast a few spells that both hid us and damaged any undead that come near, but if he hadn’t… I can see there being a problem. Coming up on the Ghostlord after a slog through his minions which apparently return to “their old haunts” would have been a meatgrinder for a party whose tanks didn’t have ghost touch weaponry. After that, it was smooth sailing along the half-remembered route to the pool room.

    Now, I’ve skimmed the Ghostlord sections of this guide since the one-shot. And I see the Ghostlord’s throne room referred to as an “easy killbox” a lot. It was set up as an easy killbox- but not for the Ghostlord.


    Spoiler: The lich, the myth, the legend
    Show


    Once we finally remembered which of the myriad secret doors led to Ghosty, we buffed up with some death ward and sent the Warder to open the door, since she had the best shot at surviving whatever was about to come out….

    Spoilers, it was an explosion, followed shortly thereafter by a skeletal dire lion. Unsure how a mindless creature pulled off that particular positioning. In fact, I was pretty sure it was the Ghostlord in wild shape until someone invisible started causing problems.

    Problems like stinking cloud. This was very effective. He followed it up with an antilife shell to keep out of the paladin and warder’s meatgrinder range and started tossing save-or-dies and taunting the party.

    A note about the Ghostlord’s design- apparently he had enough Blighter levels to get several level 8 spells and approximately a million hitpoints, not to mention a bunch of Harm prepared, so he was able to recover from several near-defeats. This was… mildly demoralizing since our party’s tactics tend to have a lot of…collateral damage.

    Eventually we got him pinned in a corner where he couldn’t move without breaking antilife shell, and… put a wall of lava behind him.

    Now, a few facts about wall of Lava and our particular party. 1.) wall of Lava does more damage to undead. 2.) wall of lava does less damage 10’ out. 3.) our party invested abnormally in fire resistance due to… targeting problems earlier in the campaign.

    After that, the fight was basically a coin toss. Eventually, only the druid and warder were left standing, and in the low double digits. ( Captain Bubbles Godslayer was nauseated, the wizard was barely up himself, and trying desperately to stabilize the paladin, who’d given almost all his hitpoints to the Warder through Blood of the Martyr…. Basically it was a near-disaster.)

    Some very reckless mutual firebombing later, wall of Lava managed to score the kill, and the Ghostlord’s reign of terror was ended in a blaze of glory instigated by the masonry.

    “So,” said the Warder to her barely living companions, “Anyone see his Phylactery?”



    Spoiler: Wrapping up
    Show

    Luckily, since the Ulwai Incident, the Ghostlord had taken to keeping the Phylactery close, so nobody could creep past and steal it again. We found it enshrined on a dead tree barely a few rooms away.

    The Warder lent the Paladin her sword, and he dealt the killing blow to the Ghostlord's soul, finally ending the monster who had slaughtered his friends. And then smashing the ruined object beyond oblivion, over and over until it was nothing other than splintered lion teeth and dust. The Wizard made sure the room was the first to burn.

    And we destroyed it- the stone lion. If you try hard and have a vast excess of fire magic and two experts, you can in fact burn down a stone structure. Took a couple days and some knowledge:architecture, but we mangled that building beyond recognition. Let the Thornwastes reclaim it.



    Spoiler: Character Endings
    Show


    The Warder returned home to raise her twins in a world that was even less kind to half-orcs than when the campaign started, still regretting some injudicious use of reincarnate.

    The Paladin/Favored Soul had to reorder his life around something other than all-consuming revenge.

    The Wizard brought some lovely new trinkets home to Tiamat and endeavors to keep her out of trouble- not an easy feat.

    The Druid, having had some very uncomfortable parallels drawn between her and Ghosty, decided to get Belak, boss of the Sunless Citadel, raised from the dead.

    Captain Bubbles Godslayer is mostly upset he didn’t get to append “Lichdestroyer” to his title.


    Wow, that's a lot more writing than I expected!

    TL;DR I think CoffeeIncluded ran the Ghostlord as a pure Blighter, and it actually worked very well. As far as I can tell, he was actually a vanilla Blighter of somewhere around level 14-15 and he took on the entire party very competently.
    Last edited by aReallyGreatAxe; 2019-03-28 at 10:09 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #1399
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Thanks for the recap! Sounds like a fun and memorable battle for the players.

    Quote Originally Posted by aReallyGreatAxe View Post
    Spoiler: Wrapping up
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    SNIP!
    And we destroyed it- the stone lion. If you try hard and have a vast excess of fire magic and two experts, you can in fact burn down a stone structure. Took a couple days and some knowledge:architecture, but we mangled that building beyond recognition. Let the Thornwastes reclaim it.
    Quote for truth.

    IRL, I've seen live cypress burn in the water. You just need liberal application of accelerant.

  20. - Top - End - #1400
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    I want to take this opportunity (while the thread has been Last Breathed back to life) to thank everyone for this great guide. I'm going to be starting a campaign based around RHoD soon, and the adjustments have been a life saver, and I've stolen many great ideas from you all.

  21. - Top - End - #1401
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Saintheart, I want to thank you, first your handbook for the Runecaster led to me creating probably my favorite character I've ever made and now you're helping me run one of my first games for my friends (I tried RotRL before but SHE came in, and since then I've just done one-shots).

    So...Thank you...I'm bad at words.

  22. - Top - End - #1402
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by DrBloodbathMC View Post
    Saintheart, I want to thank you, first your handbook for the Runecaster led to me creating probably my favorite character I've ever made and now you're helping me run one of my first games for my friends (I tried RotRL before but SHE came in, and since then I've just done one-shots).

    So...Thank you...I'm bad at words.
    You're most welcome :)

  23. - Top - End - #1403
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    I'm a bit annoyed by Miha Serani. She's supposed to be this superspy but her type is doing her no favors. Aranea can only assume one unique humanoid form, they're Magical Beasts for the purposes of Alter Self, she only gets 2+Int skills off a poor list for her HD (and her class levels for that matter), leaving her skill checks a lot to be desired. She can be invisible as well as the next level 4 Sorcerer/level 3 Wizard but frankly, that doesn't make her a superspy nor does the fact that her only access to real skill boosting is a single Potion of Glibness - better hope she doesn't need to lie twice! At least her Bluff is very respectable, but her other social skills and abilities leave a lot to be desired.

    I'm thinking of keeping her an Aranea simply because that's a kind of a weird creature type that might not get a lot of press but is kinda cool. And I like the challenge. However, the Sorc levels require some rethinking. I have three ideas for her:
    1. Add spells via. domains. Sorcs can access a domain (including granted power) on level 4 by giving up a spell known. Travel seems to cover many of her problems pretty well: Locate Object is quite the nice thing to have, Fly likewise and if bumping her up one caster level, she'd also get Dimension Door. Not to mention, Freedom of Movement for crossing difficult terrain or when things get rough. She also has the Wis for Arcane Disciple: Commerce would have Glibness as a level 4 spell for example (also Tongues & Zone of Truth, which could also be useful for her).
    2. Give her the Dragonblooded type and let her take those ACFs. They would have a couple of significant advantages, most importantly the Sorcerer ACFs. Sorcerer 1 gains Use Magic Device over Profession + Craft, something she definitely should have (at least trade those Potions for Scrolls/Wands...), and the 4th level variant would make one of her spells a spell-like ability (basically meaning it's impossible to detect).
    3. Give her levels in Unseen Seer. 2nd level Advanced Learning would let her learn Divine Insight, which would go a long way towards helping her with her terribad skills and getting 6+Int skill points would be a huge improvement. This would also give her Silent Spell (which combined with False Theurgy and perhaps Conceal Spellcasting would make life a heckuva lot easier for her) However, the class skills for entry are a problem. Spot is a class skill for Aranea, so that's not a problem, but Search and Hide would have to be covered. Search can be acquired through Draconic Heritage and Hide through Martial Study: Shadow Hand (ideally 2nd level maneuvers like Cloak of Deception or Shadow Jaunt but the way the feats fall, it would probably have to be a 1st level one).


    Now, my primary problem is, these plans clash. I can't have her both, be Sorcerer 4 (taking the two great ACFs) and take two levels of Unseen Seer without increasing her ECL by two. Which I don't want to do, since she's supposed to be small but powerful, not a top tier caster on her own right. However, I don't think I can avoid giving her 4th level spells known; Aranea 3/Sorcerer 2/Unseen Seer 3 would work. However, Aranea 3/Sorcerer 4/Unseen Seer 2 would be a caster level 9 character already, a huge anomaly and Wyrmlord levels of power. Which is kind of wasted on a spy; Ulwai would be a hundred times better a spy than her but she has better things to do. I'd love to leave her at Aranea 3/Sorc 4 but her skills are just abysmal that way. Even with 18 Int, she's looking at mere 6 skill points per level with basically no useful class skills; she can lie but her only method of persuasion is really Charm Person, and she can't talk her way out of a paper bag. Not to even mention her skulking and stalking skills: she has Invisibility but no Move Silently so your average commoner has a decent shot at hearing her moving.

    Her spell list obviously needs modification too: Whispering Wind, Charm Person and Invisibility are fine (and Disguise Self is weak but okay) but the rest of her spells and items are really perplexing for a spy type. She lacks ways to make herself believable, to move efficiently (no, Mount is not "efficient"), she has straight-up combat spells that are all enchantment for some reason (yeah, theme, I get it, but theme-wise it makes little sense for her to even have combat spells)... She'd be 100 times better as a Beguiler or a Bard but of course, neither is available since Aranea has Sorcerer casting. Thus, making her work as a Sorcerer and taking advantage of the fact that she does have access to all those great schools of magic seems like the way to go. Mayhap gish her up a bit, give her like Haste, Wraithstrike and Wings of Cover alongside Weapon Finesse and let her profit off her decent BAB, the (pitifully weak) poison attack of the Spiderform? Or just focus her on escaping and staying alive and unseen rather than fighting? Or perhaps give her some actual combat spells for save-or-losing unsuspecting people...?
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  24. - Top - End - #1404
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    You might consider having her enter a dragonpact (Dragon Magic p.87), where she would give up some treasure and a spell slot for some lower-level SLAs. It has a great thematic fit, both from the "swearing allegiance to a dragon for power" standpoint and from the fact that, as you noted, component-less SLAs are a great tool for a spy.

    Assuming she gives up a 4th-level slot, the Devious Whispers of the Master (charm person 3/day and eagle's splendor 2/day) or Elusive Disciple of Dusk (expeditious retreat 3/day and nondetection 2/day) pacts would be good for enhancing her spying focus, and Lord of Hill and Mountain (spider climb 3/day and bear's endurance 2/day) or Tyrant of the Desert Sun (silent image 3/day and blur 2/day) would give her some utility and some combat survivability, freeing up her spells known for gishy things if you want. Also, custom dragonpacts are an option and can give non-sorcerer spells, per the sidebar, so coming up with an "Agent of the Wyrm Lords" pact that straight-up handed out glibness would work too.

    And if you want to go all-in on the concept, Aranea 3/Sorcerer 2/Pact-Bound Adept 5 gives her casting as an 8th-level sorcerer and gives her two dragonpacts at once where normally you can only have one, one of which has +2 CL for its SLAs and counts as if she'd sacrificed a 6th-level spell to determine her SLAs, meaning taking one of the above pacts would give her suggestion, dimension door, spike stones, or hallucinatory terrain 2/day. It also lets her cast sorcerer spells without V or S components 3/day without increasing casting time, for even more sneaky spellcasting goodness. Really, both mechanically and thematically dragonpacts seem to fit her perfectly.
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    Spoiler: Sig of Holding
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    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
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  25. - Top - End - #1405
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    That's quite perfect. The only problem is that only Dragons of Adult category or older can enter Pacts and indeed, the only Dragon even close to that in the Horde is Tyrgaryn (Young Adult). I suppose one could bump Tyrgaryn up to Adult, but then we have Tyrgaryn with a 4th level spell slot and no 4th level spells known. Extra/metamagic uses of the lower level spells are fine, I suppose, but a bit uninspiring. One could always give him an item to provide him with spells known of that level, but those tend to be a bit expensive for the campaign. I guess I could make do with Aranea 3/Sorc 4/Unseen Seer 2 - that's a bit higher level than I'd like her but gives her everything I want and at least avoids 5th level spells (though even 4s are a bit of a stretch; she could just learn Scrying and sit with her mirror scrying all day long rather than the hands-on kind of spying I'd like for her to do).
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  26. - Top - End - #1406
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    That's quite perfect. The only problem is that only Dragons of Adult category or older can enter Pacts and indeed, the only Dragon even close to that in the Horde is Tyrgaryn (Young Adult). I suppose one could bump Tyrgaryn up to Adult, but then we have Tyrgaryn with a 4th level spell slot and no 4th level spells known.
    Hmm, I could've sworn there were several dragons old enough to make a pact; I should've checked the module first. Ah well.

    I guess I could make do with Aranea 3/Sorc 4/Unseen Seer 2 - that's a bit higher level than I'd like her but gives her everything I want and at least avoids 5th level spells (though even 4s are a bit of a stretch; she could just learn Scrying and sit with her mirror scrying all day long rather than the hands-on kind of spying I'd like for her to do).
    Well, as a sorcerer it's not like she necessarily gets to choose her spells flavor-wise. It's entirely possible that she'd really like to be able to scry and has the power level to do so, but her gifts just never manifested that way.
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    Spoiler: Sig of Holding
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    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
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  27. - Top - End - #1407
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    So, thread deadline hasn't passed yet, right?

    I have a nitpick: In the Eberron section, you called Khyber a "he", but all the legends and stuff refer to the Dragon Below with female pronouns.

    Haven't read enough of the module or the handbook to comment much more, but this is going to be a fun read.
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  28. - Top - End - #1408
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    hello everybody! My party is in the Fane, they will soon meet Azarr Kal. Any suggestion to how to make the five dragon heads of the room effective and useful? The handbook suggests to give, i.e., fire immunity... but any more specific suggestions?
    The party is really optimized (10th level), they killed Tyrgarun in 2 rounds with few damages:
    1 cleric of Tempus with a custom prestige class (he's a tank)
    1 druid with a lot of strong evocations
    1 rogue/swashbuckler/swordsage
    1 archer ranger with a custom prestige class
    1 wizard well optimized

    Moreover, the description of area 17 says that it's covered by Silence (given by unhallow). How can the PC listen to the noise at the top of the dome?
    Further suggestions/hint about the room, to how to play/buff Azzarr, and the Aspect of tiamat will be good!

    Thank you very much

  29. - Top - End - #1409
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Oh yeah, in Eberron, Sovereign Archetypes are very much a thing - Loredrake in particular is more than worth burning a feat on Improved Toughness, but the others do have potential too.

    Also, may I recommend tossing in a few Blues(XPH) with Psion(XPH) levels? Ardent(CPsi) is also a nice class, maybe Psychic Warrior or Wilder too.

    Note that while in Greyhawk and the Realms psionics and dragons can go together fairly well, in Eberron they... don't. At all. According to Dragons of Eberron, dragons suffer disfigurement and ill health if they learn psionics and most also go insane. Doesn't matter if it's just a few rank-and-file psionic goblins in the Horde, but more than that might not be wise.

    Fun fact: Gem Dragons can be added to Eberron if the Inspired have made them as Quori hosts. This leads to some fun options.

    -These versions of Gem Dragons were made by mixing chromatic and metallic bloodlines "with a touch of fiendish blood"... as if the Daughter of Khyber needed more clawholds in the first place.

    -Kul thinks he's being led by Tiamat, but in reality agents of the Dreaming Dark are gleefully BSing him into doing something they want him too, or the whole Horde nonsense is a facade for the masters of Dal Quor to weaken Khorvaire... perhaps in preparation for war.

    There's probably more and/or better ideas, but this is just my 2 cp.
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    Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal) Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
    Extended sig here.

  30. - Top - End - #1410
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Jun 2016

    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Any hint? Anybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by pianista View Post
    hello everybody! My party is in the Fane, they will soon meet Azarr Kal. Any suggestion to how to make the five dragon heads of the room effective and useful? The handbook suggests to give, i.e., fire immunity... but any more specific suggestions?
    The party is really optimized (10th level), they killed Tyrgarun in 2 rounds with few damages:
    1 cleric of Tempus with a custom prestige class (he's a tank)
    1 druid with a lot of strong evocations
    1 rogue/swashbuckler/swordsage
    1 archer ranger with a custom prestige class
    1 wizard well optimized

    Moreover, the description of area 17 says that it's covered by Silence (given by unhallow). How can the PC listen to the noise at the top of the dome?
    Further suggestions/hint about the room, to how to play/buff Azzarr, and the Aspect of tiamat will be good!

    Thank you very much

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