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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Hey does any one has suggestion on what should I use to replace the giants... I decided to set my game on Eberron and (inspired by Aslan's Cross) I decided to replace the giants because of the setting history. The problem is that I don't want to rip-off Aslan Cross by using Warforged Titan.... so suggestions?
    I seem to recall Skullcrusher Ogres as having been received well/considered due to fitting in as elite versions of the regular ogres (so like their upper class/leaders) and doubling as artillery due to having the rock-throwing ability.

    ...I can't recall their source offhand though, unfortunately, but I recall someone used them, Saph, maybe?
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2010-11-08 at 04:41 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    What giants are used in the module? I recall ogres, hill giants...the odd ettin here, what else?

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    What giants are used in the module? I recall ogres, hill giants...the odd ettin here, what else?
    Forest Giants. More elfy than elves, or something, IIRC. First chapter.

    They're not necessarily going to end up antagonistic to the PCs though.

    I'm thinking he wanted to replace the hill giant artillery with something more interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    I seem to recall Skullcrusher Ogres as having been received well/considered due to fitting in as elite versions of the regular ogres (so like their upper class/leaders) and doubling as artillery due to having the rock-throwing ability.

    ...I can't recall their source offhand though, unfortunately, but I recall someone used them, Saph, maybe?
    Monster Manual III. I also used Skullcrusher Ogres, but yeah, they're a great replacement for the Hill giants due to having Rock Throwing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Hey does any one has suggestion on what should I use to replace the giants... I decided to set my game on Eberron and (inspired by Aslan's Cross) I decided to replace the giants because of the setting history. The problem is that I don't want to rip-off Aslan Cross by using Warforged Titan.... so suggestions?
    You could also just use traditional siege engines, such as trebuchets. These were also used a lot in the Last War, so the technology needed to construct them isn't so difficult to find. Arcane Ballistae from The Forge of War also work, though they're more direct-fire weapons and not really for wrecking walls.

    For a completely different twist, you could use the Warforged Raptor (an aerial Warforged rock bomber) from the same book---it's clear why you can justify them attacking the wall instead off overflying it and bombing the interior---they want the army to break through.


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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    I think I saw them (Warforged raptors) on the website... I need to track them down, as for siege engines where are they found? Heroes of Battle, Forge of War or both?
    Last edited by Dusk Eclipse; 2010-11-08 at 07:33 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    All of the siege engines are statted out in detail in Heroes of Battle. That book also contains a lot of premade fighting units that you might find useful.

    EDIT: Warforged Raptor.
    Last edited by AslanCross; 2010-11-08 at 08:21 PM.


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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Ok.. this is going to be great...
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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    I have a dilemma.

    I have had Red Hand of Doom sitting on my shelf, waiting to be used, for almost a year now. I'm going to finally, maybe be embarking on launching a PbP Red Hand of Doom soon (probably on another forum). Here's the situation: I own Tome of Battle, and I want to make some of the encounters in it more interesting by using ToB. Since Hobgoblins are historically linked to the martial arts, it even fits as far as fluff goes why the Horde has Warblades and Swordsages running rampant. But...I'm pretty sure that no one in my potential party has similar access to Tome of Battle. Not wanting to be a lawbreaker, I can't give them much of it either. So that's my dilemma...do I use Tome of Battle, or not? And if so, how much do I use it? While it will partially depend on optimization level (even core only, a party of Rogue, Barbarian, Wizard, Druid is very different from Ranger, Fighter, Monk, Blaster Sorcerer). What should I do?

    1: Don't use it. Just don't. Leave RHoD pretty much alone in terms of tweaking encounters at all.

    2: Only give Kharn any Tome of Battle abilities, since he's sort of the climactic ending of the biggest part of the game.

    3: Just continue as I want, player's complaints be darned!

    4: Continue as planned, but leave around martial scrolls as part of the loot and institute a houserule that for classes without initiator progression, their initiator level = BAB, and they may take Martial Study as many times as they wish (They may even take the same maneuver multiple times, gaining an additional use per encounter). As the maneuver cards are online, I'd feel less bad messaging people maneuvers and stances they could take. This would help Fighters, Monks, Barbarians and Paladins keep up a bit.

    What do you guys think?
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    Quote Originally Posted by streakster View Post

    EDIT: Seriously. These encounters are like matching cats v. mice. Me vs. a plate full of puff pastry. Chuck Norris v. anything at all, ever.

    EDIT2: O-Chul v Shark. Snuggles v. that pansy Good Cat. Pun-Pun, full stop.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    What do you guys think?
    Option 3.

    Just use ToB. It should come as a pleasant (hopefully) surprise to the party and throw some uncertainty into a game which they think they may already know a lot about.

    It can also help make encounters a lot more dynamic by giving the foes more options and making their normal attacks more exciting and varied.

    Do note that in certain cases, using ToB may actually weakens the foe (most notably kharn and Azar, since a substantial part of their strength comes from clerical buffs).

    For starters, you could give the hobgoblin regulars martial study to nab a maneuver usable 1/encounter. Make the bladebearer a warblade and maybe replace the cleric with a crusader?

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    I'll second option three, for the reasons outlined above.
    But yeah: Kharn and Azarr Kul gain a lot of benefit from buffs, so I think it's best to just go RKV with the former and stay cleric (probably with some PrCs) on the latter. And while in my own game I got some nice mileage out of making the bladebearers warblades, I'd personally keep the Doom Hand clerics as clerics.

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk7915 View Post
    3: Just continue as I want, player's complaints be darned!

    4: Continue as planned, but leave around martial scrolls as part of the loot and institute a houserule that for classes without initiator progression, their initiator level = BAB, and they may take Martial Study as many times as they wish (They may even take the same maneuver multiple times, gaining an additional use per encounter). As the maneuver cards are online, I'd feel less bad messaging people maneuvers and stances they could take. This would help Fighters, Monks, Barbarians and Paladins keep up a bit.

    What do you guys think?
    Thought their IL was half their character level if they didn't have any initiator class levels.

    I'd say 3 or 4, though keeping with their reduced Initiator level from not being martial adepts. You might go on with TOBing it up, but not quite to the extent you would have later on if they show themselves to have major trouble dealing with it when you show it off to them the first couple of times. Depending upon how brutal you want the fights, of course.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2010-11-14 at 02:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Thanks for the advice guys. I was concerned (since core Monk is a popular choice for this playgroup ), but I think I'm just going to go for it. And Kharn would probably be the only Wyrmlord to become a Tome of Battler (either Warblade or RKV, depending on my mood); I much prefer Azar Khul as a straight cleric. The other major changes would be making all Monks into Swordsages, all Bladebearers into Warblades, and possibly making either the Sergeants or the Elites into Crusaders. Oh, and then obviously Veterans will have martial study, and Sergeants will have it as well even if they end up being Marshal/Fighters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by streakster View Post

    EDIT: Seriously. These encounters are like matching cats v. mice. Me vs. a plate full of puff pastry. Chuck Norris v. anything at all, ever.

    EDIT2: O-Chul v Shark. Snuggles v. that pansy Good Cat. Pun-Pun, full stop.

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Ask them first if they have access to it, but I'd really just go ahead, with or without players having ToB themselves.

    Kharn can either be an RKV, as he is commonly built, or maybe an Iron Heart/White Raven warblade. Azarr Kul stayed Cleric, but instead got 2 more levels and a massive spell list revamp.

    I made heavy use of ToB in my game as such:
    1. Bladebearers were Fighter/Warblades
    2. Doom Fist Monks: Monk 2/Swordsage 3
    3. The Sergeants were White Raven warblades.

    There was also at least one Swordsage/Dervish; the Blood Ghost Berserkers were Barbarian/Warblades, with one Bloodstorm Blade bugbear leading them.

    Kharn had two Skullcrusher Ogre warblades with him, one specializing in Stone Dragon with a halberd, while the other was a TWF High Sword Low Axe Tiger Claw user.


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  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    When I ran the beginning of RHoD, I rebuilt Koth as a Dragonfire Adept, and I thought it worked well. A little less bookkeeping for the DM than a Sorcerer would present, he was very tough for the party to kill and had a nice controller feel to him. The encounter worked out well -- the players were all pretty sure they were in for a TPK for a few rounds, but they managed to come out on top, which is exactly how I wanted the climactic battle to play out.

    My stats for Koth:
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    LE Medium Humanoid (goblinoid)
    Bugbear Dragonfire Adept 6
    * * *
    Str 16 (+3); Dex 16 (+3); Con 16 (+3); Int 8 (-1); Wis 10 (+0); Cha 14 (+2)
    Init +5; Fort +9; Ref +8; Will +8
    HP 68 (9d8+28); AC 19, touch 13, flat-footed 16; BAB +5; Speed 30
    Languages: Goblin, Common
    * * *
    Features: darkvision 60 feet; natural armor +3; Move Silently +4; breath weapon; invocations; dragonkin (+4 Diplomacy; resist frightful presence); DR 2/magic; proficient with simple weapons.
    * * *
    Feats: Entangling Exhalation, Draconic Aura (senses), Iron Will, Ability Focus (breath weapon)
    * * *
    Skills (24 points)
    5 Hide (+8), 1 Move Silently (+8), 6 Listen (+9), 1 Know(arcana)(+0), 1 Spellcraft (+0), 5 Bluff (+13), 5 Intimidate (+13), 0 Diplomacy (+10)
    armor check penalty: 0
    * * *
    Combat
    Melee morningstar +9 (1d8+3)
    * * *
    Equipment
    Wand of Magic Missile (CL 5)[15], mwk morningstar with wand chamber, Type I Bag of Holding, Scroll (Mount, CL 6), Elixir of Truth [2], mwk studded leather armor, 2980 sp
    * * *
    Combat "Spells"
    Fire blast: 3d6 fire damage (Ref DC 18 half); 15-ft cone or 30-ft line.
    Lightning blast: 3d6 electricity damage (Ref DC 18 half); 30-ft line.
    Weakening curse: -6 Strength penalty for 4 rounds (Fort DC 18 half duration); 15-ft cone.
    * * *
    Invocations
    Caster Level 6; Arcane Spell Failure 15%
    Least: Beguiling Influence, Deafening Roar (Fort DC 14 neg.)
    Lesser: Draconic Flight
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    So how does the dragonfire adept'ed Koth work? Entangle the PCs with entangling breath, then? What else does he do while the rest of the mooks are attacking the PCs? I don't really see much offensive capabilities save for his breath weapon.

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Also, whilst the effectiveness of an NPC is always going to be somewhat random according to the rolls, what was the party this form of Koth was facing, just for a sense of context?

    Cool contribution, though!

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    So how does the dragonfire adept'ed Koth work? Entangle the PCs with entangling breath, then? What else does he do while the rest of the mooks are attacking the PCs? I don't really see much offensive capabilities save for his breath weapon.
    I assume he followed it up with more fire breathing.

    Sounds like a really good idea I think. Fly around, breath fire, keep them entangled. That greatly helps the mooks set up better positions and hit the party easier. You'll need to change Koth's tactic and have him meet the party outside for this strategy to work and it probably makes the encounter more difficult than the module's version, but still manageable.

    My only worry is that it basically turns Koth into another dragon with the exact same tactic, which makes the following dragon fights less unique.

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    I'll stick those caveats into the appropriate section, but I reckon that one deserves pumping into the "Restatting Koth" section if only because it's a nice, viable build. Going off to do that now.

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    So how does the dragonfire adept'ed Koth work? Entangle the PCs with entangling breath, then? What else does he do while the rest of the mooks are attacking the PCs? I don't really see much offensive capabilities save for his breath weapon.
    Debuff them. Weakening Breath is a nasty, nasty debuff for a melee-heavy party. And if they're all entangled and weakened already, just breathing normal fire and lightning to do damage works. Or he can pull out the Wand of Magic Missile.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post
    Also, whilst the effectiveness of an NPC is always going to be somewhat random according to the rolls, what was the party this form of Koth was facing, just for a sense of context?
    • Human Egoist 4 / Sangehirn 1 (I houseruled early entrance to Sangehirn for the sake of her acting as a party healer)
    • Human Variant Druid, using the Avenger and the other variant from UA
    • Elf Rogue 4 / Swordsage 1
    • Human Barbarian 4 / Bard 1


    Individual optimization notes probably aren't as relevant as the simple fact that the Barbarian charged right through the front door of Vraath Keep screaming as loud as he could, so the party ended up facing all of the Keep's critters at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dralnu View Post
    Sounds like a really good idea I think. Fly around, breath fire, keep them entangled. That greatly helps the mooks set up better positions and hit the party easier. You'll need to change Koth's tactic and have him meet the party outside for this strategy to work and it probably makes the encounter more difficult than the module's version, but still manageable.
    Nah, even if you are using this tactic, the Keep courtyard doesn't have a ceiling, so the encounter doesn't have to happen outside the Keep.

    Actually, I had Koth use his copious amounts of HP to be a sort of meat shield for the other baddies, and didn't let the party know that Koth could fly until necessary. He just walked around on the ground like everyone else until he was hurting and decided he needed to flee the scene ... which he did by going straight upwards, which shocked the party quite a bit. (Would have gotten away, too, if the Psion hadn't gotten off a lucky shot with her last full load of PP. Ah well, considering how poorly she rolled most of the time, I can't begrudge her one good roll ...)

    My only worry is that it basically turns Koth into another dragon with the exact same tactic, which makes the following dragon fights less unique.
    Well, it does kind of make sense thematically. A Sorcerer boss in a cult of Tiamat?

    But also, I refluffed his blasts of fire and lightning and weakening curses to be just spells, not anything being breathed out of his mouth. That made him a little more separate from the dragons from the players' point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post
    I'll stick those caveats into the appropriate section, but I reckon that one deserves pumping into the "Restatting Koth" section if only because it's a nice, viable build. Going off to do that now.
    Cool. Again, I think the biggest advantage of this version of Koth is just that he's less complicated for the DM to keep track of than a Vancian caster.

    EDIT: Btw, I've seen a number of suggestions to rebuild Kharn as either a RKV or a Warblade. Is there anything wrong with just making him a straight Crusader?
    Last edited by Draz74; 2010-12-05 at 01:56 AM.
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    EDIT: Btw, I've seen a number of suggestions to rebuild Kharn as either a RKV or a Warblade. Is there anything wrong with just making him a straight Crusader?
    I can't say I've ever seen him recast as a Warblade, but I'd guess the main reason most people go for RKV for Kharn is because it continues to advance divine spellcasting as well as providing more martial maneuvers and stances. 4/5 divine spellcasting levels gives you damn near full 5th level spells at a notional level of 10.

    It also allows faster recovery of maneuvers because of the Divine Recovery class feature which allows you to burn turning attempts for recovering maneuvers, which is gold for a Crusader.

    This combination keeps him competitive given his notional allies in the fight are basically a bunch of (big) mooks - the giants (or Skullcrusher Ogres if you prefer).

    Straight Crusader 10 is formidable, I grant you, but it ultimately doesn't have any spellcasting, which is the only means by which Kharn is going to even approach keeping up with the action economy. Admittedly the RKV build does kinda look like a Lego behemoth, but even taking ToB's superior mechanics for melee types into account RKV scales exponentially next to a straight Crusader 10 given the sorts of stuff you can pull as an RKV who has cleric spellcasting (and that's before we look down the dark path of Divine Metamagic options.)

    TL;DR version of the above: there's nothing wrong with running him as a straight Crusader 10, but it basically removes any spellcasting options for the Horde in that final encounter bar the Ghostlord and/or Ulwai showing up. Against a party that's around 8th or 9th level and probably sporting at least one arcane/divine spellcaster, that's gonna be a curbstomper even taking ToB awesomeness into account.

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Straight Crusader 10 is formidable, I grant you, but it ultimately doesn't have any spellcasting, which is the only means by which Kharn is going to even approach keeping up with the action economy.
    Actually, I recall reading in another writeup that Kharn fell extremely fast when he was rebuilt as a warblade (and by extension, I expect crusader to face a similar fate). The conclusion was that favoured soul could be potent, provided he had ample opportunity to buff himself up to the gills prior to combat, and another issue was being too similar to Azzar.

    So Kharn likely still needs the cleric-part of RKV.

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Which does mean he has to go Crusader X/Cleric Y/RKV, since IIRC you can't qualify for RKV without the ability to turn undead or cast cleric spells (AFB...)

    EDIT: As an afterthought, he can of course go via Crusader X/Paladin Y/RKV, but I actually think that build doesn't really achieve much unless you've gotten to RKV 7 and you've got Battle Blessing -- at that stage things get a lot more funky since the Paladin starts blowing turn undead attempts for additional swift actions per round, which is, well, his entire spell selection based off Battle Blessing and SpC. Two or three paladin spells per round, and then go in with all your BAB intact would be kind of hilarious. On the other hand, the whole Paladin route still suffers from the old "Why not just cast Divine Power using DMM abuse and just make yourself a paladin and retain full cleric versatility?".

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Anyway, moving onto another vox pop:

    Did you mess with the "giants throwing big rocks at the walls of Brindol" encounter? If so, how much? Y' think it worked better? Why?


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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post
    Anyway, moving onto another vox pop:

    Did you mess with the "giants throwing big rocks at the walls of Brindol" encounter? If so, how much? Y' think it worked better? Why?

    Why? What was wrong with that encounter?

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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Mostly because it strikes me as just a little uninteresting, or in the case of Eberron, from memory it presents some credibility issues IIRC...

  26. - Top - End - #176
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    I've read sometimes flying players hunting the dragons. How did they do that? The Fly-Spell gives them~60ft movement, Ozy had 150ft. movement.

    Charging could be a way, but provoking AOO after being blasted isn't that good for survival. And that's just for 1 Round after a dragons flyby-Attack...

    I'm mastering the first time mid to high level D&D, so maybe i am missing the obvious. Ozy was killed by the sorcerer going almost solo, all other PCs couldn't do anything efficient...

  27. - Top - End - #177
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Borgut View Post
    I've read sometimes flying players hunting the dragons. How did they do that? The Fly-Spell gives them~60ft movement, Ozy had 150ft. movement.

    Charging could be a way, but provoking AOO after being blasted isn't that good for survival. And that's just for 1 Round after a dragons flyby-Attack...

    I'm mastering the first time mid to high level D&D, so maybe i am missing the obvious. Ozy was killed by the sorcerer going almost solo, all other PCs couldn't do anything efficient...
    I didn't see this had been posted until now!

    As far as flying players hunting dragons is concerned: I think it's because most of the dragons are 'programmed' on the RHOD text to attack unless they get to a certain hitpoint count, at which point they (well, most of them) flee.

    Two reasons I suspect attacking dragons in the air is thought of as viable are (1) maneuverability and (2) breath range.

    Consider: the dragon's 150 feet of movement is, in practice, considerably less since a flying creature (IIRC, AFB) has to hold half of its movement in reserve to maintain altitude unless it has the Hover feat. So in effect the 150-foot dragon is down to 75 feet of forward flight in combat -- before you start to factor in climbing to higher altitude or turning in the air.

    This "hobbling" is aggravated by the fact that whilst a dragon breath's does a lot of theoretical damage, it can be saved against and in the case of rogue-ish types, can often do no damage at all. Dragon's breath (unless you start using Metabreath Feats) also tends to have pretty short range for the junior dragons of this campaign -- 30 foot cones or so IIRC, and 60 foot lines.

    This means the dragon's "superior" flight allowance is less useful since it can't stand off from a great distance and blast party members; it has to close to a range where potentially a character with 60 feet of movement might at least close to under 30 foot range or even spitting distance, do some damage, and then clear the dragon's cone of effect again if they choose their moment right.

    Added to that is that dragons have inferior maneuverability compared with a fly spell, and in all air combat whether it's D&D or otherwise, maneuverability is key.

    Skull Gorge is a straight out of the Draconomicon example of where a dragon should be able to get into a rhythm of "fly in, breathe, turn, fly out, turn, recover breath, and move in again." But that rhythm depends on the dragon being able to survive the action economy balance, which most "big" monsters in D&D have a problem with since more characters = more potential actions, if not attacks, against them.

  28. - Top - End - #178
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    So, thanks to my players I ran into an issue again.

    Case:
    They were sent by some guild to find the treasure in Vraath Keep. They were teleported somewhere between Terrelton and Drellin's Ferry, where they were ambushed by the hobgoblins. (Funny thing: they had a bad time, but the druid's horse killed about 7 out of 11 hobgoblins. 2 Hobgoblins survived, so next time the hobbo's will be more scared of the horse than of the PC's)

    After the fight, they decided they wanted to verify the treasure map they have been given and sell their loot. They took a glance at the map the guild has given then and they said: look! What better place to sell loot and verify the map than at Brindol, the capital (their interpretation) of this area! I didn't want to railroad them (but did drop hints they had to go to Drellin's Ferry), so I didn't prohibit the trip to Brindol.

    So, with the session almost over due to players still having to go home through a snowstorm, I didnīt run any fights after this fight and the PCīs arrived soundly in Brindol (btw, it is a 2 days ride from Drellin's Ferry/Terrelton to Brindol, right?).

    In Brindol, they sold their loot and I had Teyani Sura approach them. Teyani received word from the guild of the PC's and ordered to search out the hobgoblin threat near the Witchwood. We stopped the game after some history exposition by an anonymous historian in Brindol.

    Issue:
    The PC's arrived at day 3 in Brindol. They will ride to Drellin's Ferry and probably arrive there on day 5, even before checking out the Witchwood.

    If I keep to the timeline of the adventure (which I'm inclined to do), the PC's will be quite behind schedule. On day 7, the Horde marches from Cinder Hill. In the conclusion of part 1, it is stated the Horde will be delayed 1 day because Kharn waits in vain for Koth. This probably means Koth leaves Vraath Keep on day 6. Furthermore, the Horde arrives at day 8 at Skull Gorge, and at day 12 at Drellin's Ferry. This means that the PC's have unknowingly but 3 days to delay the Horde and have 7 days to witness the destruction of Drellin's Ferry.

    Question:
    The PC's didn't know there was a Horde coming, nor should they know (and I couldn't tell them without plot exposition). Should I just run the timeline given, so the players are 5 days behind, should I adjust the timeline so it starts on the day the PC's arrive in Drellin's Ferry, making up for an awkward decision of the PC's, or should I choose it somewhere in between?
    If I run the timeline as given, how hard is it for the PC's to make up for lost time at the start of the adventure?

    It's been quite a story, but thanks in advance for reading!

  29. - Top - End - #179
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Your decision should probably depend on a variety of factors.

    The easiest option is just to restart the timeline when they reach Drellin's Ferry. As far as I can tell, they haven't really done anything related to the plot yet, and it seems like they have no idea what's about to go down. Since the timeline is already kind of arbitrary, there's little to stop you from delaying it.

    However, if your players are quick/skilled, or if you really want to emphasize how desperate this struggle is going to be, you could just leave it as is. That's more of a judgment call on your part if they'd be able to handle it, though.

    If you do want to give them some sort of negative factor for their ******* about, you also could delay the timeline only a couple of days. Or you could avoid making a decision until you see how quickly they're capable of handling the Keep and other starting areas.

  30. - Top - End - #180
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post
    Mostly because it strikes me as just a little uninteresting, or in the case of Eberron, from memory it presents some credibility issues IIRC...
    I thought it was interesting to begin with, but since we were running Eberron on a continent that true giants aren't native to, I had to replace them. (Running Red Hand of Doom on the continent giants are from doesn't make sense, because almost all of Xen'Drik is dangerous and hostile terrain full of drow, renegade giants, and secrets of a shattered age)

    I homebrewed a version of Warforged Titans with sonic cannons. The cannons ("Dragonshard Resonators") were a spell-like ability pretty much identical to a CL 6 fireball except they dealt sonic damage and counted as 4th level spells. I also removed the Warforged titan's default melee attacks and just gave it weaker slam attacks and smaller ballista attacks for ranged point defense.

    I had two of those 'Siege Titans' and three Skullcrusher ogres with 2 warrior levels.

    Oh yeah, to make the siege more interesting, messing with the terrain (putting them on a cliff or behind a barricade) could be more challenging, as well as adding driving rain or mud. During a downpour, it might be possible that a flying spotter could be telepathically relaying targeting data to the throwers, or maybe dropping flares.
    Last edited by AslanCross; 2010-12-19 at 01:24 AM.


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