Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 67

Thread: 3.5 Scout

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010

    Default 3.5 Scout

    Ok, so i'm throwing myself at the feet of the playground and asking you all for your wisdom and insignts on the best way to Optimze a 10th level scout.

    I want to play up the whole spy/ slient killer angle.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    sonofzeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Swift Hunter.



    ....that's about it, yeah. It's a feat that lets you stack Ranger and Scout levels for stuff, and is generally considered pretty awesome. Also "Improved Skirmish", for +2d6 damage and +1 AC. Between those two, you'll be doing pretty well.
    Avatar by Crimmy

    Zeal's Tier System for PrC's
    Zeal's Expanded Alignment System
    Zeal's "Creative" Build Requests
    Bubs the Commoner
    Zeal's "Minimum-Intervention" balance fix
    Feat Point System fix (in progress)

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    sonofzeal, you're like a megazord of awesome and win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    SonOfZeal, it is a great joy to see that your Kung-Fu remains undiminished in this, the twilight of an age. May the Great Wheel be kind to you, planeswalker.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    I've seen that but everyone seems to go full ranger after that. I might be the only one that dips 2 levels in to ranger and then takes 8 levels of scout.

    Anyways to strengthen melee combat? I know a scout is not made for it but it can/ will happen.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Dusk Eclipse's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Runite
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    For completeness sake, here is the Swift Hunter Handbook.

    Also if you can try to get Mystic Ranger aproved (it is from dragon magazine), the spells are a great way to improve your combat abilties.
    Just call me Dusk
    Avatar by Ceika

    Dming: Eyes of the Lich Queen IC OOC


  5. - Top - End - #5
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    sonofzeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsAion View Post
    I've seen that but everyone seems to go full ranger after that. I might be the only one that dips 2 levels in to ranger and then takes 8 levels of scout.

    Anyways to strengthen melee combat? I know a scout is not made for it but it can/ will happen.
    Melee combat is still skirmishable. Try to get extra sources of movement though, the ability to 10-foot-step is key. I played a melee Scout using "Agile Shield Fighter" and shield bash, and "Martial Study: Sudden Leap" for mobility. If I'd wanted to go higher-optimization, I would have hunted down a pair of Cyran Gliding Shoes. And Swift Hunter is still worthwhile if you stay on the Scout side.
    Last edited by sonofzeal; 2010-10-14 at 04:34 PM.
    Avatar by Crimmy

    Zeal's Tier System for PrC's
    Zeal's Expanded Alignment System
    Zeal's "Creative" Build Requests
    Bubs the Commoner
    Zeal's "Minimum-Intervention" balance fix
    Feat Point System fix (in progress)

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    sonofzeal, you're like a megazord of awesome and win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    SonOfZeal, it is a great joy to see that your Kung-Fu remains undiminished in this, the twilight of an age. May the Great Wheel be kind to you, planeswalker.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Sorry, but no tome of battle here. DM says it's WAY over powered. I was thinking of going human or shifter for race. I might go longstrider shifter with the longstrider elite feat. that would give me a total of 20 added on top of what scout gives me.

    Also has anyone played a Catfolk scout?

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    sonofzeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsAion View Post
    Sorry, but no tome of battle here. DM says it's WAY over powered. I was thinking of going human or shifter for race. I might go longstrider shifter with the longstrider elite feat. that would give me a total of 20 added on top of what scout gives me.

    Also has anyone played a Catfolk scout?
    If Martial Study is out, I'd definitely get those Gliding Shoes.

    And Catfolk Pounce is awesome. ^^
    Avatar by Crimmy

    Zeal's Tier System for PrC's
    Zeal's Expanded Alignment System
    Zeal's "Creative" Build Requests
    Bubs the Commoner
    Zeal's "Minimum-Intervention" balance fix
    Feat Point System fix (in progress)

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    sonofzeal, you're like a megazord of awesome and win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    SonOfZeal, it is a great joy to see that your Kung-Fu remains undiminished in this, the twilight of an age. May the Great Wheel be kind to you, planeswalker.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    I'll look into the shoes. Do you know where I can find them? I have the MIC so I'm free to chose from it.

    for feats I'm thinking swift hunter,dodge, mobity, and spring attack. For a class based on needing to move ten feet spring attack seems like a good thing.
    Last edited by DragonsAion; 2010-10-14 at 05:13 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    sonofzeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsAion View Post
    I'll look into the shoes. Do you know where I can find them? I have the MIC so I'm free to chose from it.

    for feats I'm thinking swift hunter,dodge, mobity, and spring attack. For a class based on needing to move ten feet spring attack seems like a good thing.
    Feats sound good, although I'd really try and get Improved Skirmish in there. And the shoes were a hyperlink, just click on it.
    Avatar by Crimmy

    Zeal's Tier System for PrC's
    Zeal's Expanded Alignment System
    Zeal's "Creative" Build Requests
    Bubs the Commoner
    Zeal's "Minimum-Intervention" balance fix
    Feat Point System fix (in progress)

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    sonofzeal, you're like a megazord of awesome and win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    SonOfZeal, it is a great joy to see that your Kung-Fu remains undiminished in this, the twilight of an age. May the Great Wheel be kind to you, planeswalker.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Dusk Eclipse's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Runite
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    IF you go spring attack route, I sugges you try this little combo

    Battle jump, is a feat from Unaproachable east which if you jump from at least 5 feet over your enemy, you may charge, now as jumps are made as part of a move action, you can combine it with Spring attack.

    the DC to jump 10 vertical is 40 (though but doable) let's say 13 ranks + 4 from strength + 10 from ring of impoved jumping +2 Synergy bonus from 5 ranks in tumble + 2 for having a 40 ft base speed. so 33 jump modifier, you can do the jump on a 7 or more. I say the probabilities are good arent they?

    See if you can get pounce and now you can full attack on a Spring attack
    Just call me Dusk
    Avatar by Ceika

    Dming: Eyes of the Lich Queen IC OOC


  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    IF you go spring attack route, I sugges you try this little combo

    Battle jump, is a feat from Unaproachable east which if you jump from at least 5 feet over your enemy, you may charge, now as jumps are made as part of a move action, you can combine it with Spring attack.
    The Charge is part of the move action. You don't need Spring Attack to keep moving, you can just use your other move action.
    Quotes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    City of Wheldrake
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Person Man's thread about getting free movement, pounce, or their equivalents.

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
    Homebrew
    To Do: Reboot and finish Riptide

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    ShneekeyTheLost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    I wish I knew...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Dip a level in Cloistered Cleric for Travel Devotion and the turn attempts to fuel it. This lets you move then make a full attack, maximizing your Skirmish damage output. Much more reliable than those silly shoes.
    Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2010-10-14 at 07:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Dip a level in Cloistered Cleric for Travel Devotion and the turn attempts to fuel it. This lets you move then make a full attack, maximizing your Skirmish damage output. Much more reliable than those silly shoes.
    Better yet, dip a level of Cleric and a level of Barbarian (Spirit Lion Totem). Charge, full attack, walk away. Your enemies will have trouble pinning you down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Better yet, dip a level of Cleric and a level of Barbarian (Spirit Lion Totem). Charge, full attack, walk away. Your enemies will have trouble pinning you down.
    Combo with HiPS and good Hide skill.
    Quotes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    dgnslyr's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    The Flying City Columbia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Combo with HiPS and good Hide skill.
    So you leap out of the shadows, tear out somebody's liver, cooly walk away, and vanish? Sounds pretty awesome!

    HiPS won't be too much of a problem at later levels when you have a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis. The only problem I see is getting Hide as a class skill with the ones you'll be working with.
    Last edited by dgnslyr; 2010-10-14 at 10:23 PM. Reason: unpunctuality
    Quote Originally Posted by JeminiZero View Post
    Gamer cancels life, interrupted by Dwarf Fortress.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by dgnslyr View Post
    HiPS won't be too much of a problem at later levels when you have a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis?
    Well, that gives the weaker version of HiPS. A shadowdancer dip might be more prudent.

    As for classes, well, Revenant Blade is pretty nice. Move Silently and Hide as class skills, skillpoints to burn, class level as Competence bonus to those checks… A build I'd been kicking around was something like ranger2/barb1/fighter2/RB5/cleric1/shadowdancer1 and then something.
    Quotes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Dusk Eclipse's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Runite
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    The Charge is part of the move action. You don't need Spring Attack to keep moving, you can just use your other move action.
    Spring attacks offers you another attack, and it opens the rapid blitz and bounding assault lines for even more attack (good in a swift hunter build) also you can avoid the AoO without tumbling.

    Also IIRC Both bounding assault and Rapid Blitz let you move between attacks, so you can arguably make even more pouncing charges....


    Hey this is tempting to combine in gestalt with warblade (or swordsage) to get the moongoose manoubers and leaping dragon stance...
    Just call me Dusk
    Avatar by Ceika

    Dming: Eyes of the Lich Queen IC OOC


  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Spring attacks offers you another attack, and it opens the rapid blitz and bounding assault lines for even more attack (good in a swift hunter build) also you can avoid the AoO without tumbling.
    Get higher move speed and jump many times to trigger Battle Jump, then scamper?
    Quotes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Dusk Eclipse's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Runite
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    :shrugs: just an idea I wanted to share (though the full credit of combining them should go to True Shinken, as he posted that combo)
    Just call me Dusk
    Avatar by Ceika

    Dming: Eyes of the Lich Queen IC OOC


  21. - Top - End - #21
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sunnydale

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    The Charge is part of the move action.
    That's not correct, because a charge is a special full-round action. Plus you can't combine a charge and Spring Attack since Spring Attack requires a move action, which is split around your attack.

    From the Special Edition Player's Handbook 3.5:
    Quote Originally Posted by Spring Attack
    When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can split your move action in that round in order to move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can't use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.

    You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack.
    It's sometimes difficult to keep up with all the rules, especially "stealth errata" like this. But that's the RAW. Spring Attack requires a move action, and a charge never includes a move action.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Actually, Curmudgeon, I believe that the topic was that special funky charge from Battle Jump, not the normal kind of charge anyone can do.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for Round 18!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    (Note: I'm overseas from July 13th to the end of the month. Regular forum access is not promised.)

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    dgnslyr's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    The Flying City Columbia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Well, that gives the weaker version of HiPS. A shadowdancer dip might be more prudent.
    I'm sure there are plenty of fun ways and plenty of practical ways, with some overlap, to cover a battlefield in darkness.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeminiZero View Post
    Gamer cancels life, interrupted by Dwarf Fortress.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sunnydale

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Actually, Curmudgeon, I believe that the topic was that special funky charge from Battle Jump, not the normal kind of charge anyone can do.
    But that doesn't apply, either. Battle Jump's "funky charge" is triggered by dropping, not by using a move action. Dropping is dependent on gravity and independent of character speed.
    move action

    An action that is the equivalent of the character moving his speed.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Dusk Eclipse's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Runite
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    But that doesn't apply, either. Battle Jump's "funky charge" is triggered by dropping, not by using a move action. Dropping is dependent on gravity and independent of character speed.
    Thats why you use spring attack to move and hence jump over the enemy dropping over him and thus triggering battle jump.
    Just call me Dusk
    Avatar by Ceika

    Dming: Eyes of the Lich Queen IC OOC


  26. - Top - End - #26
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    City of Wheldrake
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Could one charge someone on the other side of a hostile if one is able to jump over the hostile?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
    Homebrew
    To Do: Reboot and finish Riptide

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Banned
     
    true_shinken's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    But that doesn't apply, either. Battle Jump's "funky charge" is triggered by dropping, not by using a move action. Dropping is dependent on gravity and independent of character speed.
    Yeah, a DC 40 Jump check allows to drop from 5 feet up on a Medium target.
    Nice to know Spring Attack was stealth errata'd to allow for standard action attacks. Martial adepts and Duskblades might even consider it now!

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sunnydale

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Thats why you use spring attack to move and hence jump over the enemy dropping over him and thus triggering battle jump.
    That's not a motion that's permitted either by physics (where jump arcs are parabolic) or the limited options of D&D Jump checks. You have the following choices:
    • Long Jump
    • High Jump
    • Hop Up
    • Jumping Down
    Battle Jump requires dropping down. Jumping Down certainly would work for Battle Jump, but that doesn't use the move action required by Spring Attack. Long Jump would allow you to make the height but not drop down; instead you'd come in at a 22˝ degree angle (mostly across instead of down). High Jump would also let you gain the height but not drop into the target's space unless you started at the same horizontal offset (in the target's square, or directly above or below), so you'd probably need to be able to legally share the target's space (be at least 3 sizes smaller than the target). Hop Up is the only other possible legal use of Jump for this combination, but would require your waist height exceed the target's head height by at least 5'.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Banned
     
    true_shinken's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    That's not a motion that's permitted either by physics (where jump arcs are parabolic) or the limited options of D&D Jump checks.
    Battle Jump does not mention angles or anything, so a long jump would suffice. You are dropping from a high point to another, lower point, aren't you?
    Even if you won't agree with that, there is another way: use Tumble to move past his space, while you are moving through his square, Jump up.
    Presto.
    Last edited by true_shinken; 2010-10-15 at 12:19 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sunnydale

    Default Re: 3.5 Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    Even if you won't agree with that, there is another way: use Tumble to move past his space, while you are moving through his square, Jump up.
    Presto.
    OK, now that's a useful approach that works within the rules. Thank you. I'm not sure how many characters are going to be able to clear their opponent's head height by 5', but this seems like a solid tactic for those who can.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •