General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course.

[Yuki Akuma]

I think Yuki's talking about Lilith, and Reynard is talking about Lillun.

Wrong.7890

[Tavar]

Wrong.7890

So...how exactly is Lillun a horrific, bipolar psycho?

[Ganurath]

The inital request was for a 4 dot behemoth. Which is 15 mutation points, plus the properties of a 1 or 2 dot artifact weapon with magical materials.

I listed more than can be afforded with 14 points (an Assumption Form is required, after all), to allow for some customization and creativity.

You probably should have also mentioned the four point version of Small, but that would still make it bigger than a warstrider grand daiklave because, in case you forgot, it's a city-eating monster. That part about it having the weapon stats of a 1-2 dot artifact? Those aren't its stats as a weapon, those are the stats of its natural weapon.

Mutation and Glamour Changes

Losing the flexibility that the old mechanics had was unfortunate, but neccesary for balance. The Charms too powerful to be placed in mutation form, such as Heart Stealing Kiss? You can still get those Charms as normal. Only now, you actually have to pay the cost in motes, wp, and gossamer to bad touch the target's soul away.

Chancels

Those would all be very fine points if the Way Grace were a common thing, Pure Chaos was safe for shaped raksha, or if raksha put what was most mechanically efficient before what would make a good story. None of those are the case.

Glamour Resistance

The old mechanics were cripplingly convoluted by comparison, and not all the tricks in a non-combat Fair Folk's arsenal allow for such resistance. As for the matter of cold iron, I support it for the same reason I support the change to the stunt rules: Pre-errata, one has to wonder why everyone in the Wyld Hunt didn't carry a cold iron shield and use cold iron goggles. Now, not an issue.

Oaths

You seem to have forgotten two things. One is that 4-5 dot Adjurations get additional benefits appropriate to an artifact of their caliber. Two is that Adjurations, in addition to granting mutation points, are shaping weapons, and remarkably flexible ones since you can choose the stats between default, ranged, and clinching.

Emotion Weaving Style was insane. Agreed. Now it's useless - resisting it costs 1 Willpower, so you only employ it when your target is already out of willpower. At which point you may as well convince him to follow you and have his will broken the old way. Plus, cold iron. Insert similar grumbles about Beguilement and Undetectable Lie (aka "spend 1 willpower to ignore my blatant lie, which by fluff you would have believed and rationalized").

So given a choice between a broken charm and a subpar charm, you'd rather see a broken charm?

I don't understand the hatred for Imposition of Law. Once upon a time, it worked against Excellencies, requiring creativity or an obviously magical effect to be bypassed. Now? Poof. I'd also like to know whether IoL with a weapon grants unlimited Parry DV or not. Though IoL 'Curing the Great Contagion' would have made for an excellent bargaining tool...

Similar question to the above, really. I'm not a fan of the powering down, but I can understand why they would want to avoid making Permanent reactionary Charms too inticing for raksha, as the Fair Folk are supposed to be the ones that make the story happen.

If a charm is lost to Spirit Flaying Meditation, is access to the follow up charms lost as well? The Birth revision explicitly states that pre-requisites do not apply. Ideas for abusive stuff that this blatant misinterpretation would allow.

The Birth revision applies to Charms gained through the Birth background, and I'm fairly confident that any ST that you tried to argue otherwise to would throw the book at you - literally. If the prerequisite waver were universal, it would have been on p69-70 of the Errata, where the new general rules for Charms were detailed.

Glorious Hero Form not stacking means that it is no longer possible for commoners to be better at an attribute than their masters. Despite ancient Fair Folk forming the most comely Entertainers they can imagine, none of them will ever demonstrate unearthly beauty. I understand that stacking 5 points of dexterity is frowned upon, but that just means that mutations will be employed instead, to the same effect (or better - see Large).

Now this one, I can agree on. I think it's totally unreasonable that they should make it impossible for a character to have arbitrarily high Attributes as a Permanent effect. Forget the possibility of a Dex 20 Noble, I find the very idea that commoners can't be better than nobles without actually making effort at development through the narrative that defines their being offensive. The preceeding content of this paragraph is sarcastic.

Shape Forged Servant and Behemoth Forging Meditation only grant mutation points, despite fluff describing them as being behemoth like. Can they grant Fair Folk Charms with the Mutation keyword? What is the limit on the mutation points granted to a Shape Forged Servant (3 points per gossamer * 1000 gossamer = trouble)? Can Behemoth Forging Meditation be used repeatedly to grant more mutations? Does it work on Exalts? Do Behemoths created with the charm require an Assumption Charm to exist in Creation?

Yes, none, so long as the target hasn't been turned into a fey beast yet, no, given the rules with mortals and mutation points in excess of willpower I would assume so.

[meschlum]

You probably should have also mentioned the four point version of Small, but that would still make it bigger than a warstrider grand daiklave because, in case you forgot, it's a city-eating monster. That part about it having the weapon stats of a 1-2 dot artifact? Those aren't its stats as a weapon, those are the stats of its natural weapon.

By default, it's still human sized, so many levels of Small aren't really appropriate. The request was for a Behemoth with the shape of a sword, so its natural attack would be what someone wielding it does for damage.

If used as a shaping weapon, it would certainly be more potent, but that's moving away from the initial request.

Losing the flexibility that the old mechanics had was unfortunate, but neccesary for balance. The Charms too powerful to be placed in mutation form, such as Heart Stealing Kiss? You can still get those Charms as normal. Only now, you actually have to pay the cost in motes, wp, and gossamer to bad touch the target's soul away.

So a horde of Commoner Entertainers can freely (and irresistably) consume the souls of those they touch, but a terrifying beast rfom out of legend can't?

I agree that some of the charms were... extremely open ended. I feel the pruning has been excessive.

Those would all be very fine points if the Way Grace were a common thing, Pure Chaos was safe for shaped raksha, or if raksha put what was most mechanically efficient before what would make a good story. None of those are the case.

So you don't do it from Pure Chaos. Still grants Creation-wide teleportation for armies. Even ignoring that, it still allows carrying armies with you. As a 1 dot artefact. If you're arguing here that mechanics can be ignored for the sake of story, why argue elsewhere that story can be ignored for the sake of mechanics?

Essentially, the way chancels work, to me, goes entirely against the change that's been made to Fae survival in Creation.

The old mechanics were cripplingly convoluted by comparison, and not all the tricks in a non-combat Fair Folk's arsenal allow for such resistance. As for the matter of cold iron, I support it for the same reason I support the change to the stunt rules: Pre-errata, one has to wonder why everyone in the Wyld Hunt didn't carry a cold iron shield and use cold iron goggles. Now, not an issue.

I remain disappointed that Fair Folk now can't get better at casting illusions. And start out capable of deceiving all but the most excessively astute mortals.

Eating souls now works better - cold iron won't help you. Actually weaving illusions and melting minds? Not an option.

We have differing views in rarity and knowledge. I feel that it would be widespread knowledge that cold iron rings grant nigh immunity to the fae, and quite easy to get the same. I feel that the supplies needed to be sure of being protected from the Fair Folk's tricks should be hard to get. You seem to differ.

You seem to have forgotten two things. One is that 4-5 dot Adjurations get additional benefits appropriate to an artifact of their caliber. Two is that Adjurations, in addition to granting mutation points, are shaping weapons, and remarkably flexible ones since you can choose the stats between default, ranged, and clinching.

Staff combat is not ranged, and you need a specific weapon type to perform clinching. An adjuration only grants artefact class bonuses in shaping battle, but not in Creation (where it's just mutations). So, again, oaths are now purely useful for Wyld based games, where they once could be worthwhile everywhere (or worth more, at least).

So given a choice between a broken charm and a subpar charm, you'd rather see a broken charm?

When every charm that does this one thing (melt minds) is rendered subpar, I feel entitled to expressing disappointment. The great tricksters and diplomats of the fey are now incapable of doing what the fluff says they can.

Similar question to the above, really. I'm not a fan of the powering down, but I can understand why they would want to avoid making Permanent reactionary Charms too inticing for raksha, as the Fair Folk are supposed to be the ones that make the story happen.

IoL and Bastion of the Self continue to suffer dissonance between the mechanics (largely useless against non-Extras) and the fluff ("You can only be killed when standing neither on land nor in the sea. Oh, or if a dragonblood spends 1 mote, or an enlightened mortal jumps over a table to hit you.")

The Birth revision applies to Charms gained through the Birth background, and I'm fairly confident that any ST that you tried to argue otherwise to would throw the book at you - literally. If the prerequisite waver were universal, it would have been on p69-70 of the Errata, where the new general rules for Charms were detailed.

Sure. Spirit Flaying Meditation remains a charm that has not been touched in the errata (unlike all the others with gossamer costs), and the only method I know of to lose Charms or attributes. Which means the topic of losing prerequisites has not been explored. Hence, something that the errata could have clarified.

Now this one, I can agree on. I think it's totally unreasonable that they should make it impossible for a character to have arbitrarily high Attributes as a Permanent effect. Forget the possibility of a Dex 20 Noble, I find the very idea that commoners can't be better than nobles without actually making effort at development through the narrative that defines their being offensive. The preceeding content of this paragraph is sarcastic.

Yes. Evidently, taking one charm to permanently stack Large many times is excessively reasonable, but it simply will not do for a Fair Folk Guide to be uncannily perceptive. Or an Entertainer sculpted out of Wyld stuff over the course of years by a vicious and ugly warlord to be more than humanly beautiful. Or...

People out to get huge attributes could already do so via mutation. This Charm actually set limits, and was very expensive. Now they'll just use cheap mutations. Congratulations!

Yes, none, so long as the target hasn't been turned into a fey beast yet, no, given the rules with mortals and mutation points in excess of willpower I would assume so.

Yes: so one can now create proto-Fair Folk with all the Mutation-keyword charms, then forge graces for them. A mechanics hack that just got worse.

None: see above. Eat a village, give your servant Large * 1000. Repeat.

Not yet a fey beast: so you grant 9 points of mutations, then find a high essence noble (6, say. Easy with God Monster Form) to get a 1-dot behemoth with 21 mutation points. Better than a 5-dot behemoth, and negligible attunement cost.

No: Why not? Exalts can pick up mutations from the Wyld. Fey beast status is probably out, but otherwise...


And none of these are clarified in the errata - in fact it creates some of the issues. Incidentally, I'd like to have it clarified whether Behemoth Forging Meditation can remove mutations. And whether it can give the Essence Channeler mutation. And what happens to fey beasts with that mutation. In fact, Essence Channeler needs errata. Badly. "Hi, I have an Abomination that threatens my ability to live in Creation. It gives me the power you get for studying martial arts, at no long term cost."


On an unrelated note, Fair Folk still can't protect others from the Wyld. Despite the power described in the core book. Unless they are constantly shaping the local reality to be safe... which doesn't match the core book, or have any rules.

[Ganurath]

By default, it's still human sized, so everything after this is based on that and therefore meaningless.

Page 135 of GWM says repeatedly, in various terms, that Behemoths are big. The errata says nothing to contradict this. What basis do you have for this assertion?

So a horde of Commoner Entertainers can freely (and irresistably) consume the souls of those they touch, but a terrifying beast rfom out of legend can't?

Nope: They need to spend 3m, 1wp, and 1g to use the Charm, and then need to succeed on a Dex+MA roll to hit the target. The terrifying beast of legend admittedly has to settle for hitting you, then sucking out your soul in exchange for surrender, but they favor the Sword over the Cup so it's more fitting for their style than a draining caress.

So you don't do it from Pure Chaos. Still grants Creation-wide teleportation for armies. Even ignoring that, it still allows carrying armies with you. As a 1 dot artefact. If you're arguing here that mechanics can be ignored for the sake of story, why argue elsewhere that story can be ignored for the sake of mechanics?

1. You're ignoring the fact that the Way Grace can only be gained through a specific Unshaped, and by the same token Chancels.
2. One can get the same effect with any Evocation Charm and the Extras shaping weapon, which is a non-artifact.
3. Where do I argue that story can be ignored for mechanics?

I remain disappointed that Fair Folk now can't get better at casting illusions. And start out capable of deceiving all but the most excessively astute mortals.

Better? Are you suggesting that one of the great and mighty raksha wasn't already the pinnacle of what it could achieve by merit of its nature?

We have differing views in rarity and knowledge. I feel that it would be widespread knowledge that cold iron rings grant nigh immunity to the fae, and quite easy to get the same. I feel that the supplies needed to be sure of being protected from the Fair Folk's tricks should be hard to get. You seem to differ.

An interesting idea, and likely would have been true in the First Age, when there were minimum standards for education and Creation-wide infrastructure. However, in the Second Age you'll be lucky to find more than a handful of literate people in a village, let alone someone with sufficient mechanical knowledge of Fair Folk Charms to know the minimum neccesities of cold iron functionality.

Staff combat is not ranged, and you need a specific weapon type to perform clinching. An adjuration only grants artefact class bonuses in shaping battle, but not in Creation (where it's just mutations). So, again, oaths are now purely useful for Wyld based games, where they once could be worthwhile everywhere (or worth more, at least).

Read the paragraph in the sidebar containing the Shaping combat stats for Adjurations, you can substitute them with the stats of equivolent Ring and Cup artifact weapons. As for the benefits of Oaths versus Fantastic Grotesquirie Shell, I'd rather commit motes than burn gossamer, and Fair Folk artifact background makes 1-dot artifacts a dime a dozen.

When every charm that does this one thing (melt minds) is rendered subpar, I feel entitled to expressing disappointment. The great tricksters and diplomats of the fey are now incapable of doing what the fluff says they can.

If Fair Folk Abilities and, in the case of Nobles, Attributes weren't already overkill against the Creation-born extras that are so often their victims, I would see your point. Besides, if they were dependant upon overpowered Charms to be competent, they weren't the right raksha for the job in the first place.

IoL and Bastion of the Self continue to suffer dissonance between the mechanics (largely useless against non-Extras) and the fluff ("You can only be killed when standing neither on land nor in the sea. Oh, or if a dragonblood spends 1 mote, or an enlightened mortal jumps over a table to hit you.")

See my point from earlier about how 4-5 dot artifacts get additional benefits not normally available in the crunch.

Sure. Spirit Flaying Meditation remains a charm that has not been touched in the errata (unlike all the others with gossamer costs), and the only method I know of to lose Charms or attributes. Which means the topic of losing prerequisites has not been explored. Hence, something that the errata could have clarified.

There aren't rules specific to Fair Folk, save for the Birth background. Therefore, the default rules apply, save for the Birth background.

Yes. Evidently, taking one charm to permanently stack Large many times is excessively reasonable, but it simply will not do for a Fair Folk Guide to be uncannily perceptive. Or an Entertainer sculpted out of Wyld stuff over the course of years by a vicious and ugly warlord to be more than humanly beautiful. Or...

People out to get huge attributes could already do so via mutation. This Charm actually set limits, and was very expensive. Now they'll just use cheap mutations. Congratulations!

Two iterations of Large is Huge, a third is Gargantuan, and a fourth is an Abomination that I can't remember the name of. And again, those mutations cost gossamer. Not an easy thing for minions to part with, especially not en mass.

Yes: so one can now create proto-Fair Folk with all the Mutation-keyword charms, then forge graces for them. A mechanics hack that just got worse.

Ah, wait. Actually looking at Errata this time. No, they refer to regular mutations. Still thinking in pre-Errata mode the first time I answered. Sorry.

None: see above. Eat a village, give your servant Large * 1000. Repeat.

See my points about chancel abuse in the story, and the limits on stacking Large. Also, if you have that much gossamer there are better ways to use it.

Not yet a fey beast: so you grant 9 points of mutations, then find a high essence noble (6, say. Easy with God Monster Form) to get a 1-dot behemoth with 21 mutation points. Better than a 5-dot behemoth, and negligible attunement cost.

Story>Mechanics. And a 5-dot Behemoth is better than a 21mp Fey Beast any day. 3mp won't make up for the rest of the goodies Deep Wyld Horrors get.

No: Why not? Exalts can pick up mutations from the Wyld. Fey beast status is probably out, but otherwise...

The Charm can only target mortals, which I've understood to mean non-Exalted humans.

[Reynard]

The Charm can only target mortals, which I've understood to mean non-Exalted humans.

In one way, it's more specific then that, but it's also more vague. For the purposes of charms, a Mortal is a creature that can't channel it's Essence. Animals, unenlightened Humans, Wyld-mutants, etc.

Awakened Mortals aren't considered Mortal for the purposes of charms.

[The Rose Dragon]

In one way, it's more specific then that, but it's also more vague. For the purposes of charms, a Mortal is a creature that can't channel it's Essence. Animals, unenlightened Humans, Wyld-mutants, etc.

Abyssals also treat ghosts and plasmic creatures as mortals.

[meschlum]

Page 135 of GWM says repeatedly, in various terms, that Behemoths are big. The errata says nothing to contradict this. What basis do you have for this assertion?

The fact that all the sample behemoths have the Large mutation (or upgrades) bought if they are big?

The fact that a 4 dot behemoth (city-sized, apparently) in the hands of a 1 Strength commoner is... rather silly if the actual benefits of size aren't counted in?

Nope: They need to spend 3m, 1wp, and 1g to use the Charm, and then need to succeed on a Dex+MA roll to hit the target. The terrifying beast of legend admittedly has to settle for hitting you, then sucking out your soul in exchange for surrender, but they favor the Sword over the Cup so it's more fitting for their style than a draining caress.

And how does it suck the soul out? How does it spit flames, as is required of most critters? How does it shrug off potent blows? By not being a behemoth.

1. You're ignoring the fact that the Way Grace can only be gained through a specific Unshaped, and by the same token Chancels.
2. One can get the same effect with any Evocation Charm and the Extras shaping weapon, which is a non-artifact.
3. Where do I argue that story can be ignored for mechanics?

1) Artefact 1. One. As I said, this thing breaks the setting to me. You seem to agree, since you're arguing it shouldn't be used.

2) Evocation is expensive. And won't let you move mortal armies, hundreds of Fair Folk lords, a spare mountain or two, respire motes and warp time while in Creation... for a 1 dot artefact. One.

3) Imposition of Law. All the mind melting charms. Bastion of the Self. Illusions created by a grandmaster being as fragile and easy to pierce as those cast by a mindless Warrior with Int 0.

Better? Are you suggesting that one of the great and mighty raksha wasn't already the pinnacle of what it could achieve by merit of its nature?

Yes. Yes I am. Because those annoying Primordials invented time, and now one can actually learn things. Yet knowing everything about a foe does not help deceive them in the slightest. Understanding the inner workings of essence and the wyld does not help weaving deceptions in the least. A mindless, selfless Ring forged automaton can create an illusory meal as refined as what could be evoked by a lord who spent centuries experimenting with mortal tastes.

An interesting idea, and likely would have been true in the First Age, when there were minimum standards for education and Creation-wide infrastructure. However, in the Second Age you'll be lucky to find more than a handful of literate people in a village, let alone someone with sufficient mechanical knowledge of Fair Folk Charms to know the minimum neccesities of cold iron functionality.

As I said, we disagree on rarity and knowledge. And making it so that a cold iron ring is enough to shut down everything makes cold iron much easier to use. I can justify the rarity of cold iron shields and goggles to myself, but half inch long slivers of metal?

Read the paragraph in the sidebar containing the Shaping combat stats for Adjurations, you can substitute them with the stats of equivolent Ring and Cup artifact weapons. As for the benefits of Oaths versus Fantastic Grotesquirie Shell, I'd rather commit motes than burn gossamer, and Fair Folk artifact background makes 1-dot artifacts a dime a dozen.

Missed that. Still doesn't help in Creation.

1 dot Oaths remain better than higher dots for Creation, though. And gossamer is now extremely cheap, and motes are still extremely rare. Hence, Oaths are bad.

Incidentally, can one commit motes from the bonus feeding pool? (which never expends, anyway, since it's based on Heart, so it could go from 15 to 20. Wow.) Another thing that could have been in the errata, since they added the thing!

Why Gossamer is Cheap: Revised Feeding charms. A single mortal is worth 10 gossamer (4 Willpower, 6 total virtues). Or just 6 gossamer to a commoner (eating only one virtue).

Consider a village. 100 gossamer = 3 families. 1000 gossamer...

If Fair Folk Abilities and, in the case of Nobles, Attributes weren't already overkill against the Creation-born extras that are so often their victims, I would see your point. Besides, if they were dependant upon overpowered Charms to be competent, they weren't the right raksha for the job in the first place.

So Diplomat Fair Folk are reduced to being very good, mundane talkers. While Sword Fair Folk are otherworldly engines of destruction. A master diplomat takes dozens of long ticks to maybe convince mortals to do what he wants, if they don't just attack or run away. A master warrior?

I am disappointed.

See my point from earlier about how 4-5 dot artifacts get additional benefits not normally available in the crunch.

And this relates to IoL and Bastion of the Self how?

There aren't rules specific to Fair Folk, save for the Birth background. Therefore, the default rules apply, save for the Birth background.

And there are no rules for losing Charms.

Two iterations of Large is Huge, a third is Gargantuan, and a fourth is an Abomination that I can't remember the name of. And again, those mutations cost gossamer. Not an easy thing for minions to part with, especially not en mass.

Eat a village. See above.

Large: gain Strength and Stamina, and Health levels. Costs 1 mp. Stacks (to a point, sure).

Hero Form: do not gain Health levels. Do not stack. Costs 2 mp.

Ah, wait. Actually looking at Errata this time. No, they refer to regular mutations. Still thinking in pre-Errata mode the first time I answered. Sorry.

Concur. What about permanent mutation charms, though? Is there a reason for Racing Dragon Speed to be unaccessible to mutated servants?

Again, disappointment.

See my points about chancel abuse in the story, and the limits on stacking Large. Also, if you have that much gossamer there are better ways to use it.

You have that much gossamer. Might as well use it. Pre-errata, you were limted to successes, so there was a finite extent to much your minions could be mutated.

Again, disappointment - something that was internally limited and is now blown wide open.

Story>Mechanics. And a 5-dot Behemoth is better than a 21mp Fey Beast any day. 3mp won't make up for the rest of the goodies Deep Wyld Horrors get.

For Sword combat, sure. I can commit to 15 of those Fey Beasts for the price of one 5 dot behemoth. Guess which is more terrifying and useful in Creation?

But anyway, the point here is that the possibility of stacking the Charm, or removing mutations, are not in the errata. And should be.

So I'm disappointed. Again.

The Charm can only target mortals, which I've understood to mean non-Exalted humans.

And is quite open ended, as seen by the following comments. Plus, Essence Channeler does weird stuff. Again. Though since it isn't a Fair Folk feature, I can't claim disappointment on that front.

[Ganurath]

The fact that all the sample behemoths have the Large mutation (or upgrades) bought if they are big?

Not big. Bigger. Note that the Large expansions scale up the higher the dots in artifact.

The fact that a 4 dot behemoth (city-sized, apparently) in the hands of a 1 Strength commoner is... rather silly if the actual benefits of size aren't counted in?

Just as a noble raksha can have a meager frame and the strength to shatter palaces with a punch, a behemoth with a meager handler wouldn't be able to topple a wagon with a finger the size of a tree. Physical laws are secondary to the narrative nature of the raksha, and the same reasoning applies to their works.

1) Artefact 1. One. As I said, this thing breaks the setting to me. You seem to agree, since you're arguing it shouldn't be used.

The Crystal of Kuan is also a one-dot artifact, but is one-of-a-kind and lost to Creation. Your argument that they're broken is because they're accessable, but the moment you consider the fluff you realize that they aren't as accessable as their artifact rating indicates.

2) Evocation is expensive. And won't let you move mortal armies, hundreds of Fair Folk lords, a spare mountain or two, respire motes and warp time while in Creation... for a 1 dot artefact. One.

A single use of [Adjective] Evocation can turn the Extras shaping weapon into a tangible, genuine army in Creation. Since it's a single possession, this entire army can be tucked into Elsewhere and taken back out again, at the cost of a single mote per use. The same could arguably done with the mountains, if they're definitively the raksha's property. A chancel couldn't move hundreds of Fair Folk lords either, since that would require organizing hundreds of Fair Folk within the confines of a few waypoints. All of the above paragraph is pointless, however, as both possibilities make for a boring story.

3) Imposition of Law. All the mind melting charms. Bastion of the Self. Illusions created by a grandmaster being as fragile and easy to pierce as those cast by a mindless Warrior with Int 0.

I should hope that the Imposition of Law would be weak in the hands of beings of Pure Chaos. Fair Folk using Charms to mindscrew is a giant tautology: Fair Folk screw with minds just by existing! Bastion of the Self, while not directly triggering it, is thematically hazardous when considering Stasis. A mindless Warrior wouldn't cast any sort of illusions save at the behest of a master who held his Heart, but more to the point the surmountable Charms can't be improved upon because that's a static solution: This won't work? I'll get better at it until it does! Problem solved in the most boring and tedious way imaginable!

Because those annoying Primordials invented time,

Well, now that's just being silly. Time came into being when the shinma Advaita Iraivan seperated one moment from the next, well before the hated Primordials cut open that weeping sore called Creation.

As I said, we disagree on rarity and knowledge. And making it so that a cold iron ring is enough to shut down everything makes cold iron much easier to use. I can justify the rarity of cold iron shields and goggles to myself, but half inch long slivers of metal?

I wasn't arguing rarity and knowledge, I was arguing rarity of knowledge. I imagine most people that know cold iron works don't understand beyond "cold iron isbad for Fae." On top of that, there's maintainence to consider.

Incidentally, can one commit motes from the bonus feeding pool? (which never expends, anyway, since it's based on Heart, so it could go from 15 to 20. Wow.) Another thing that could have been in the errata, since they added the thing!

Doesn't say you can't, it clarifies other restrictions, I'd assume that you can.

Why Gossamer is Cheap: Revised Feeding charms. A single mortal is worth 10 gossamer (4 Willpower, 6 total virtues). Or just 6 gossamer to a commoner (eating only one virtue).

Don't forget that the revised feeding Charms are much more limited on how often you can use them.

So Diplomat Fair Folk are reduced to being very good, mundane talkers.

Oh, no. The Diplomats still have their tricks and traps, they just aren't in the most obvious locations. Elegant Muse Attitude springs to mind, along with the clout of a throng of evoked and/or permanent minions. Social mass combat, anyone?

And this relates to IoL and Bastion of the Self how?

The thing about not being killed in day or night and all that fun stuff was on a five-dot artifact, an additional perk beyond the base nature of the mechanics.

Large: gain Strength and Stamina, and Health levels. Costs 1 mp. Stacks (to a point, sure).

Hero Form: do not gain Health levels. Do not stack. Costs 2 mp.

I bolded the parts that are the same as pre-Errata. Is it still the Errata you're taking issue with at this point?

Concur. What about permanent mutation charms, though? Is there a reason for Racing Dragon Speed to be unaccessible to mutated servants?

So one can't create proto-Fair Folk with all the Mutation-keyword charms, then forge Graces for them; a mechanics hack that just got worse.

You have that much gossamer. Might as well use it. Pre-errata, you were limted to successes, so there was a finite extent to much your minions could be mutated.

If you have that much gossamer, there are better ways to use it! If you're getting it through eating villages, you're also gaining motes, which means that you can just as easily shape and evoke a horde of minions, which is much more practical and much less vulnerable than a single minion that succumbs to a Gem of Sleep and a pretty face.

For Sword combat, sure. I can commit to 15 of those Fey Beasts for the price of one 5 dot behemoth. Guess which is more terrifying and useful in Creation?

Considering that each attunement to a behemoth takes several hours of care a day to maintain? The Deep Wyld Horror wins, hands down.

But anyway, the point here is that the possibility of stacking the Charm, or removing mutations, are not in the errata. And should be.

So I'm disappointed. Again.

Nothing says you can't stack the Charm, there's no reason thematically why you shouldn't be able to, so I'd say you can. Nothing says that you can remove mutations, Fair Folk wouldn't have any reason to, so I'd say you can't. If someone else were STing a game, they could make their own judgement call. One of the wonderful things about Exalted, especially Fair Folk, is that things are not set in stone.

[Xefas]

Speculative stats for Rose's Behemoth Sword:

Spd 6, Acc -2, +20L/5, Def -2, Rate 1, Min: Str 6, Attune 10, Tags: 2, O, P, R

This sword is not, in truth, an artifact of any kind, but rather a Behemoth in sword form. Consequently, it is not bought with dots of the Artifact background, nor may similar items be crafted. Instead, a wielder might attain one as a 3-dot Familiar, though they gain no other benefits a familiar would give. The attunement cost is more an approximation of the Behemoth feeding from the wielder's essence reservoir to prevent calcification.

The sword itself is massive in size, dwarfing even Grand Daiklaves in size with a blade just over 12 feet in length. It possesses the following unique powers, which may be activated as a Reflexive action for the cost listed in parenthesis by its name whenever the wielder makes an attack with it.

Deluge of Never-ending Spite (3m, 1wp) - By invoking the name of the 8th Shinma, who is at once unmodified, but by its plainness, defines errata, the wielder may engorge a target thread within (Essence) yards with bickering walls of text. This is a perfect effect which, despite a Storyteller being fully within their power to use a given section of errata or choose not to do so by their own preference, is unblockable. The thread will remain so engorged for (Essence) days, although the wielder has the option to commit the spent motes in order to prolong its punishment.

[meschlum]

Not big. Bigger. Note that the Large expansions scale up the higher the dots in artifact.

And those size increases are paid for. If you create a behemoth without the size increases, there is no reason for them to be larger.

Eh. Differing viewpoints, irrelevant to the initial question.

Just as a noble raksha can have a meager frame and the strength to shatter palaces with a punch, a behemoth with a meager handler wouldn't be able to topple a wagon with a finger the size of a tree. Physical laws are secondary to the narrative nature of the raksha, and the same reasoning applies to their works.

And you're defining every potent Sword weapon as being massively large. Stormbringer. Excalibur. The Lazy Gun. All these are world shaking weapons, most are sentient, and all of them are sword sized or less.

The Crystal of Kuan is also a one-dot artifact, but is one-of-a-kind and lost to Creation. Your argument that they're broken is because they're accessable, but the moment you consider the fluff you realize that they aren't as accessable as their artifact rating indicates.

So you're saying that you don't use chancels. Welcome to my world.

A single use of [Adjective] Evocation can turn the Extras shaping weapon into a tangible, genuine army in Creation. Since it's a single possession, this entire army can be tucked into Elsewhere and taken back out again, at the cost of a single mote per use. The same could arguably done with the mountains, if they're definitively the raksha's property. A chancel couldn't move hundreds of Fair Folk lords either, since that would require organizing hundreds of Fair Folk within the confines of a few waypoints. All of the above paragraph is pointless, however, as both possibilities make for a boring story.

So you're not using Chancels. Welcome to my world.

I should hope that the Imposition of Law would be weak in the hands of beings of Pure Chaos. Fair Folk using Charms to mindscrew is a giant tautology: Fair Folk screw with minds just by existing! Bastion of the Self, while not directly triggering it, is thematically hazardous when considering Stasis. A mindless Warrior wouldn't cast any sort of illusions save at the behest of a master who held his Heart, but more to the point the surmountable Charms can't be improved upon because that's a static solution: This won't work? I'll get better at it until it does! Problem solved in the most boring and tedious way imaginable!

We differ. I will note that Appearance has just become the Ultimate Fair Folk Attribute, since it affects MDVs.

In any case, I don't like the fixed MDV resistance, and feel justified. It seems your proposed solution is to use new, custom Charms instead of the ones that, to me, should work by fluff - which is another statement that the errata isn't satisfactory in my eyes.

Well, now that's just being silly. Time came into being when the shinma Advaita Iraivan seperated one moment from the next, well before the hated Primordials cut open that weeping sore called Creation.

Sure.

I wasn't arguing rarity and knowledge, I was arguing rarity of knowledge. I imagine most people that know cold iron works don't understand beyond "cold iron isbad for Fae." On top of that, there's maintainence to consider.

You don't need to know anything beyond "cold iron is bad for Fae" with the new setup. Also, we may have diverging understanding of what cold iron is - my knowledge of same does not involve any maintenance (cold forged iron is iron shaped without a forge, via lots of sweat and hammering. Once it's made, it's 'just' another chunk of metal, albeit with more impurities and weight).

Doesn't say you can't, it clarifies other restrictions, I'd assume that you can.

So that's where all my commited motes will come from - the pool of motes that's hard to refill and has a fixed size.

Don't forget that the revised feeding Charms are much more limited on how often you can use them.

True. Once per scene. So you 'only' gain, what, 15 gossamer per hour by spending 20 minutes on each target? For each Fair Folk, so pet Entertainers are even more useful.

Oh, no. The Diplomats still have their tricks and traps, they just aren't in the most obvious locations. Elegant Muse Attitude springs to mind, along with the clout of a throng of evoked and/or permanent minions. Social mass combat, anyone?

Ah. So +2/3 dice (Essence) at 1 mote per die (out of a pool of 20/30 maximum, less with attunements, long term charms, etc.) is vastly better than telling exalts they have lost their powers and having them accept it? To go by the core book, of course.

Color me convinced.

And having new tricks and traps is fine. Having them in completely different and unrelated Charm trees (Elegant Muse Attitude is not a staff charm), and making the old tricks and traps almost worthless is not.

Which is why I'm disappointed.

The thing about not being killed in day or night and all that fun stuff was on a five-dot artifact, an additional perk beyond the base nature of the mechanics.

It was an oath - so it was a mutation (pre-errata). The immortality effect was fluff, working on shaping only. Meaning that in Creation, you still were killed by J. Random Heroic Mortal who 'lunged violently' rather than 'attacked'.

A mutation, pre-errata, meant that you had to define the specifics of how the power worked (still do). So you could (and can) state that your 3 dot Oath granting Bastion of the Self (Heart) rendered you immune to all harm so long as you have not kissed a red-haired woman during a lunar eclipse. You also could (and now can't) make that a fundamental part of your story (permanent mutation) so that you'd only die that way.

It didn't, and doesn't, work, of course - outside of the Wyld, anyway.

I bolded the parts that are the same as pre-Errata. Is it still the Errata you're taking issue with at this point?

Yup. Because Glorious Hero form could stack, which made it marginally better in extreme outlier cases. Now it can't, so it isn't.

So one can't create proto-Fair Folk with all the Mutation-keyword charms, then forge Graces for them; a mechanics hack that just got worse.

Pre-errata, it was difficult to add many mutations to a Shape Forged Servant (maximum of Socialize, so 7, costing 1 gossamer each). You had more options, though. Now... you lose the charms, but gain every other mutation in the books. I'm disappointed.

I also don't see why some of the formerly permanent charms (Racing Dragon Speed, Glorious Hero Form, Surpassing Excellence) were kept as charms, rather than the mutations they were. Minor issue.

If you have that much gossamer, there are better ways to use it! If you're getting it through eating villages, you're also gaining motes, which means that you can just as easily shape and evoke a horde of minions, which is much more practical and much less vulnerable than a single minion that succumbs to a Gem of Sleep and a pretty face.

And goes against the story, but never mind that.

The point is that if you're eating villages (and you're now strongly encouraged to, since it's very rewarding) you easily have hundreds of gossamer (down from thousands due to refresh times). Evoking a horde of minions costs 1 gossamer. You still have hundreds. Again, may as well use it.

Considering that each attunement to a behemoth takes several hours of care a day to maintain? The Deep Wyld Horror wins, hands down.

In the Wyld, sure (again). Outside, the narrative potential of converting people into mutated beasts of your design is huge, especially for a diplomat. The narrative potential of a massive engine of destruction... less so.

Viewpoints.

Nothing says you can't stack the Charm, there's no reason thematically why you shouldn't be able to, so I'd say you can. Nothing says that you can remove mutations, Fair Folk wouldn't have any reason to, so I'd say you can't. If someone else were STing a game, they could make their own judgement call. One of the wonderful things about Exalted, especially Fair Folk, is that things are not set in stone.

Lots of reasons to remove mutations.

You just cursed the local prince with a plethora of debilities, and now he's finally come over to thinking your way. Might as well reward him!

Unshaped Sword Transformation can remake Fey Beasts. Why not remake your lesser mutated toys? Turn them into perfect spies, broken and loyal to you but otherwise seemingly the same as before?

You've been forced by a rather powerful Eclipse to lead his party safely through the Wyld. So that they are not consumed by maelstroms of destruction (and the Eclipse doesn't destroy you in turn), you give them Wyld Adaptation (the only way I can find to protect people from the Wyld). Once they are done, the Eclipse insists his retinue be restored.


Anyway, the need for judgement calls on the stuff that (to me) is obvious problem material contributes to my disappointment in the errata. These things could have been clarified. They were not, and were made more obscure or worse in some cases. So I'm disappointed.


And I view Xefas' weapon as the best offered yet, so I'll stop there. We both enjoy Fair Folk - what more need be said?

[Ganurath]

Ah, yes, the sword that started the discussion. I suppose that after spurning the original concept, I should try to introduce something that's true to the spirit of the beast. I'm leaving the elements that apply in Creation a bit fuzzy, to give TRD some flexibility.

Once, there was an Anarch of extraordinary skill who sought to bring down an entire Court singlehanded. However, cunning and insight stayed his hand as he knew that the nobles who ruled the Court were among the worthiest of foes. Their only vulnerability was the Sword, but the fighting would be lengthy enough that tending to a behemoth without an aide to share the victory with would be impossible, and no meer work of gossamer would be worthy of him. Knowing that Adjurations could sometimes function in a similar manner to Oneiromancies and Treasures in Shaping combat, the Anarch decided to try to forge a Treasure that could function as a Behemoth. He succeeded beyond his wildest imagination.

Sword of Fangs - Artifact ●●●● - Attune 12m
In the Wyld: The Sword of Fangs uses the statistics of a Deep Wyld Horror when used as a Shaping Weapon, and may be used to make and parry attacks of either the Ring or Sword Graces. Although the Anarch has never learned this, the weapon allows Sword shaping attacks and parries even for those who lack a Sword Grace.

In Creation: After destroying the Heart Graces of most of the Court, one noble survivor fled from the Middlemarches into hated Creation. Upon taking the weapon into Creation, the Anarch learned it to be as a blade with a will of its own. The Sword of Fangs uses the stats of a Grand Daiklave with -1 Speed and +1 Accuracy, thanks to the feral eagerness of the weapon. It also has a property similar to that of Hellforged Weapons, granting it Sapience from ● to ●●●● (TRD's call) with an Urge to [as TRD sees fit]. Rather than granting Charm use outright, the weapon provides triple its Sapience in Mutation points, at least one of which must go to the Bestial Assumption for the weapon itself. This power comes at a cost, however: The body of the Sword of Fangs does not bear hearthstone slots.

[Rockphed]

Speculative stats for Rose's Behemoth Sword:

Spd 6, Acc -2, +20L/5, Def -2, Rate 1, Min: Str 6, Attune 10, Tags: 2, O, P, R

This sword is not, in truth, an artifact of any kind, but rather a Behemoth in sword form. Consequently, it is not bought with dots of the Artifact background, nor may similar items be crafted. Instead, a wielder might attain one as a 3-dot Familiar, though they gain no other benefits a familiar would give. The attunement cost is more an approximation of the Behemoth feeding from the wielder's essence reservoir to prevent calcification.

The sword itself is massive in size, dwarfing even Grand Daiklaves in size with a blade just over 12 feet in length. It possesses the following unique powers, which may be activated as a Reflexive action for the cost listed in parenthesis by its name whenever the wielder makes an attack with it.

Deluge of Never-ending Spite (3m, 1wp) - By invoking the name of the 8th Shinma, who is at once unmodified, but by its plainness, defines errata, the wielder may engorge a target thread within (Essence) yards with bickering walls of text. This is a perfect effect which, despite a Storyteller being fully within their power to use a given section of errata or choose not to do so by their own preference, is unblockable. The thread will remain so engorged for (Essence) days, although the wielder has the option to commit the spent motes in order to prolong its punishment.

And thus we see that proper awesome properly applied destroys argument. How is a fae best dispatched in exalted anyway? I assume that whacking them upside the head with sufficient force will do the trick, but I hope there is some other way that will render them incapacitated en masse.

[Rhyvurg]

This is what happens when you try to apply rules to something that's supposed to be pure chaos. I never got the point of making almost an entire new system for Fair Folk, in the spirit of the Wyld it always felt better just to make crap up and add on anything I thought they needed.

[Mattarias, King.]

...Uhm, speaking of swords, my ST and I finally came up with solid stats for mine. Would anyone care to review them?

Spoiler

Show

Burning Tempest
Artifact ****
Speed: 4 Defense: 2 Accuracy: 3 damage: 16L Rate: 5 O, P. Attune: 10

This ornate double-edged red jade daiklaive is known instantly as a weapon of fire. Stylized flametongue script runs down its two blades, towards a hilt fashioned in the shape of phoenix wings. A single Hearthstone setting lies in the connection between blades and hilt.

Burning tempest gives its wielder use of these powers:

Flare Jump: Allows instant teleportation through fires up to (Essencex10) yards apart if the wielder has movement remaining upon reaching the fire, to or within a fire no smaller than a blazing torch. If the character exits within (essencex5) yards of an enemy, he may roll to reestablish surprise, which is resisted with a penalty equal to the wielder's essence. A character emerging from a fire suffers a -2 penalty to DV, and may make a single attack, unsupplemented by any charms.

Rising Phoenix, Dying Shadows: Forged and blazing in holy fire, Burning Tempest deals aggravated damage to creatures of the Wyld. In addition, at the cost of 4 motes, its wielder may unleash a blazing attack that travels a maximum of (essence x7) yards, cutting through everything, friend, foe and cover, in its path. This attack is unblockable and undodgeable, though can be protected against with a perfect defense (in the case of a perfect parry, it ceases to move), it has an attack pool of (Essence+Dexterity+Accuracy of Weapon+Melee) and deals lethal damage, before adding attack successes, equal to (Essence+Melee+Strength).

Its true wielder may summon the sword (As per Call the Blade), as well as draw and sheath it reflexively.

Sorry for the awkward phrasing in some places. We were bouncing a text file back and forth.

[golentan]

Okey-dokey. I'd like to get some advice here.

Short story: my Infernal's motivation involves the creation of behemoths. Not a behemoth, a lot of behemoths. He's going to be doing experiments that cross lines man was not meant yada yada for the better part of a decade in pursuit of this, but I'd like it to culminate in a custom sorcerous charm to finalize his descent and declare his position in the world unambiguously as his own creature to be feared by ALL who oppose him.

Unfortunately, I have zero experience with homebrewing stuff. None-zip-zilch. What I have so far is:

Spoiler

Show

In Adversity Born
Cost: 50m committed, 1wp, 1ahl; Mins Essence 4? 6?; Type: Simple (speed 5 in long ticks)
Keywords: Sorcerous, Desecration, Heretical, Obvious, Blasphemy
Duration: One Week
Prerequisite Charms: Sand-Scoured Perfection, Sea Dissolves Herself
Recalling his time in his own chrysalis and the lessons of the yozis, the warlock cuts his hand while making the Mudra of Rebirth. Pouring the resulting ichor over a mortal creature, he imbues it with his primordial essence. For one week, the nascent behemoth grows in its cocoon, tormented by horrors beyond imagining. Should it survive this ordeal, the cocoon cracks at midnight of the last day, releasing the new being upon the world. Maddened by its torments, it ungratefully rejects the gift bestowed upon it by the warlock. It gains a negative intimacy towards him that cannot be removed in any way for at least a month.

In short, I want it to be a potentially lethal transformation, and certainly traumatic (I was thinking rolls to prevent death by loss of permanent willpower), and I'd prefer to give concrete rules for behemoth construction based on an existing creature rather than just handwaving it. I'd also like it to be balanced, hence weakening yourself substantially for a week and having to win the creature over again after surviving it for a month or several.

And... I think I may have bitten off more than I can chew. Any advice?

[Rikandur Azebol]

Maybe each week make Craft(Genesis) check with difficulty depending on basic subject's Stamina + Willpower (those broken in earlier would resist it less)/2 where sucesses are accumulated for the grand-monster design (You need amount equal to normal Craft [Genesis] with bio-artifact N/A to create what You intended) ? Subject suffers from normal thirst and starvation rules, liquids in the cocoon providing air for the victim. Each week subject could try Stamina+Resisstance to resist burning Kimbery/Cecelyne essence running amok in it's systems sucess granting it 1lhl due to bodily warping, with difficulty based on Exalt's Essence, while lack of sucess gives it random mutation of ST choice depending on how much subject missed the treshold. Botch gives subject sudden influx of Wyld and causes cocoon to explode, tainting surroundings.

In short, I propose adaptation for rules for Wyld mutations for the victim to resist and standard Craft(Genesis) rules for Your behemoth creating thingy. But with weekly interwals. And treat each week as scene building negative intimacy towards your guy.

[Rikandur Azebol]

http://rpol.net/display.cgi?gi=4&ti=...ate=1291148100

So You just know. I started Exalted game out there.

[Rainmar]

It's advertisment time!

http://rpol.net/display.cgi?gi=4&ti=...ate=1290807146

Here is my game which features DragonKings and their struggle to take back Rathess.

[golentan]

Okay, new favorite Charm of Mass Destruction: World Grinding Sandstorm Devastation. It is a nuke. Literally. Massive shockwave + blast + radiation (can mutate people). And it can be set off in almost any city on the planet with the purchase of Withered Soul Wastes.

Boom. Hehehe...

Have I mentioned how much I'm loving broken winged crane? Because I'm totally loving broken winged crane.

[Reynard]

Anyone looking for a laugh should read Scroll of Exalts.

It's possible to build a starting character that could take on the entire Iconic Solar Circle at once, and win, with very little charm use.

And they won't need to keep a PD in reserve, either. We're talking killing the whole bunch of them in 2, maybe 3 actions.

[Kylarra]

Anyone looking for a laugh should read Scroll of Exalts.

It's possible to build a starting character that could take on the entire Iconic Solar Circle at once, and win, with very little charm use.

And they won't need to keep a PD in reserve, either. We're talking killing the whole bunch of them in 2, maybe 3 actions.

I think that's sort of just generally true for pregenerated characters with any real optimization curve though. Exalted just tends to have weirder ones.

[The Rose Dragon]

I think that's sort of just generally true for pregenerated characters with any real optimization curve though. Exalted just tends to have weirder ones.

But seriously, three out of five of them have Willpower 5. Three Exalts can be described as "diffident and a little shy". One of them is Panther, for crying out loud. Two of them don't have any Excellencies. Again, one of them is Panther. At least he is the only one with a semi-perfect defense - except it is Iron Skin Concentration and doesn't defend against non-damage effects. And if you're too lazy to actually fight them, don't worry: only one of them actually has Integrity-Protecting Prana. Just shape them out of existence.

I think the problem is that the old chargen rules were terrible (the new ones are also terrible, but not quite as much as the old ones), and it is nearly impossible to create a solid character without any additions.

[Reynard]

I think that's sort of just generally true for pregenerated characters with any real optimization curve though. Exalted just tends to have weirder ones.

I'm not talking high optimisation, though. The DB in one of the PbPs I'm playing in, made by a complete newb (it's his first character), could take them down with a bit of effort.

[Kyeudo]

I think the problem is that the old chargen rules were terrible (the new ones are also terrible, but not quite as much as the old ones), and it is nearly impossible to create a solid character without any additions.

What was (and is) wrong with the character creation rules? I've asked a few people over on the KoC boards, but nobody seems to have an honest clue as to what the new rules were intended to fix.

[horngeek]

Apparently, doesn't give you enough to purchase sufficient defenses AND what else you want.

[The Rose Dragon]

What was (and is) wrong with the character creation rules? I've asked a few people over on the KoC boards, but nobody seems to have an honest clue as to what the new rules were intended to fix.

Here's what you need to be competitive in Exalted, in both forms of combat: an Excellency for offense, Infinite (Offensive Ability) Mastery, a physical perfect defense (which has at least one prerequisite), Elusive Dream Defense, a shaping defense and a way to react to unexpected attacks (flurry-breakers are nice, but optional). That's 8 of your 10 starting Charms, not to mention Infinite Ability Mastery has an Essence 3 prerequisite, which you pay 7 bonus points for in the most inefficient use of bonus points. Also, you have to get 4 dots in your defensive ability, offensive ability and Integrity. Oh, and only Solars and Abyssals actually get these so easily. Anyone else has to pay through the nose to get a basic way of keeping themselves alive. And if you don't favor Dodge, Integrity and an offensive ability, you're basically screwed the moment someone rolls Join Battle. Oh, and good luck playing someone other than a sociopath or someone who is emotionally wrecked, because the importance of Willpower means that having a balanced Virtue distribution used to mean suicide. At this point, you still don't have a combo, so you can't actually attack and defend at the same time - you want to do that, you need to pay more bonus points. You want to actually play someone who doesn't start out as a dedicated warrior? Enjoy your 10 Charms then, and hope your opponents don't target you with a goremaul or permanently shape you into a frog.

I sound bitter, because I am bitter. Basically, Exalted combat rewards (and indeed, almost requires) a very specific kind of build that is not cheap, and three fourths of the rules are about combat. And the non-combat rules are mostly a joke or don't exist.

And I still count Exalted as my fourth favorite game. Fascinating, innit?

[Delusion]

Black treatise has a spell (whose name I can't remember) that says that it can be dodged but doesn't have any mention about attack roll. How is that supposed to work?

[tonberrian]

Black treatise has a spell (whose name I can't remember) that says that it can be dodged but doesn't have any mention about attack roll. How is that supposed to work?

Magic.

More useful answer: wait for the Sorcery errata. Should be relatively soon.

[Ganurath]

Massive rant goes here.

A valid point, in a world where every opponent is made of cheese. Such makes for a boring story, almost as much as your ST throwing something at you that you can't defend against. If an ST puts making an abomination of crunch ahead of telling the story, you aren't playing a proper game of Exalted.