General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course.

[Kyeudo]

Here's what you need to be competitive in Exalted, in both forms of combat: an Excellency for offense, Infinite (Offensive Ability) Mastery, a physical perfect defense (which has at least one prerequisite), Elusive Dream Defense, a shaping defense and a way to react to unexpected attacks (flurry-breakers are nice, but optional). That's 8 of your 10 starting Charms, not to mention Infinite Ability Mastery has an Essence 3 prerequisite, which you pay 7 bonus points for in the most inefficient use of bonus points.

Why Elusive Dream Defense? I don't recall there being that many perfect social attacks or mind-control effects.

And can't Integrity-Protecting Prana be put off until you get the XP for it? Not everyone immediately goes Lunar-hunting in the Wyld or clashes with the Fair Folk.

Oh, and good luck playing someone other than a sociopath or someone who is emotionally wrecked, because the importance of Willpower means that having a balanced Virtue distribution used to mean suicide.

That was the only one thing that I really understood about the change to Willpower. Making it so that optimizing your Virtues wasn't necessary was a good idea.

And I still count Exalted as my fourth favorite game. Fascinating, innit?

Na, the setting is just that awesome.

[The Rose Dragon]

A valid point, in a world where every opponent is made of cheese. Such makes for a boring story, almost as much as your ST throwing something at you that you can't defend against. If an ST puts making an abomination of crunch ahead of telling the story, you aren't playing a proper game of Exalted.

He doesn't have to, is the point. It is too easy to inadvertently kill Exalts, as I discovered very early, when I had to lie about the result of a dice roll to keep a PC alive. A lot of offensive powers, for example are designed to be very powerful and lethal because they are Shaping and PCs are supposed to be able to defend against shaping attacks easily. If you don't have a shaping defense, you're out of luck against that massive effect. A lot of seemingly innocuous attacks can turn out to be one-shot kills, and you need to be aware of this to mitigate the hyperlethality effect.

If a player who knows of this effect asks me whether they need to prepare for the hyperlethality, I'll say do whatever you want, because I tend to heavily play down the actual mechanics of the game to fit the characters. A lot of STs I know don't. And frankly, if the system worked properly, they wouldn't have to.

[Indon]

Here's what you need to be competitive in Exalted, in both forms of combat:

Fresh Exalts aren't very strong. I don't see what's wrong with this, or surprising about it - the Gold Faction runs training camps for Solars because fresh Solars are vulnerable to more experienced exalts, even Dragon-Blooded.

I've never had a power curve problem in the Exalted games I've run.

[Mattarias, King.]

In the spirit of fun, it's Mattarias' Almost-Weekly Exalted Report!

Spoiler

Show

We found the plot, and proceeded on a seven month-long trip to the north-east corner of creation, where we have to go into this stabilized place in the Wyld and fix up the Nail of Creation that is holding the world.. There, I guess. Pretty sure it's something the ST made up, but I'm cool with it.

Anyways, on our way, we were ambushed by some raptor cats, where I botched my Join Battle roll because I was busy telling the party of my GLORIOUS EXPLOITS wherein I totally took out 200 Sidereals at once.

After that little tussle, we fast-fowarded to where we needed to be, and met a housecat that jumped through the mists of the Wyld and ended up turning into a tiny gryphon (Griffin? Bah.). Our Abyssal took it in as a pet and gained resonance for it. Heh.

The Alchemical, still freaked out by how.. Organic everything is, was not amused when the Lunar stuck his arm into the Wyld mists and went "See this? Don't do this."

Fast-fowarding a bit, we are currently under siege by the forces of the Wyld, all of us having very, very little essence remaining. It was there the session ended. Can't wait to see what happens next.

Sorry if you don't care, I just thought someone'd find it amusing.

..As a sidenote, anyone mind seeing if this weapon is balanced?

[Fortuna]

I've been re-reading Keychain, and just got to the fight with Nova. Now I'm wondering: how can I best go about doing ridiculous amounts of technogabble in reasonable amounts of time? 'Cause I like technogabble.

[Jokasti]

I've been re-reading Keychain, and just got to the fight with Nova. Now I'm wondering: how can I best go about doing ridiculous amounts of technogabble in reasonable amounts of time? 'Cause I like technogabble.

Get a science textbook, pick a random word from the glossary and then add some sort of effect to it such as
EVOLUTIONARY MITOTIC SPINDLE ARRAY
NATURAL SELECTION LAZER
TESTICULAR EXPLOSION
Er, you get the idea... Dammit, Anatomy and Physiology Texbook.

[Fortuna]

Get a science textbook, pick a random word from the glossary and then add some sort of effect to it such as
EVOLUTIONARY MITOTIC SPINDLE ARRAY
NATURAL SELECTION LAZER
TESTICULAR EXPLOSION
Er, you get the idea... Dammit, Anatomy and Physiology Texbook.

Once again, I feel the need for a Spock Eyebrow smiley.

I meant how can I have a character able to produce technogabble-worthy effects in a reasonable amount of time (preferably in-combat). I can do technogabble just fine.

[SurlySeraph]

@Random: Wait, do you mean making lots of stuff or saying lots of stuff? If you want to make stuff, Sidereals get an Essence 4 charm called Implicit Construction Methodology that lets you build things really fast. If you want to say stuff, Talking is a Free Action applies in Exalted, too. And long mid-battle speeches are entirely thematically appropriate.

@Mattarias: Speaking as someone who's new to Exalted, it looks reasonable to me, given that you said you're God-Blooded and the rest of the party's Celestial.
Speed 4 and Rate 5 is kinda intense, especially for something that does 16L. I don't know what extra action charms God-Blooded get access to, but ones that work of your weapon's existing rate would be very powerful with that. Jade Hearthstone Bracers or another way of getting the speed down to 3 would make this even more terrifying, letting you make 10 attacks in the time some weapons make 2.
Automatic surprise-reestablishment is good. Is the penalty to the opposed roll external (removes successes) or internal (removes dice from the pool)? At Essence 3 or so an external penalty would be pretty damn powerful against anyone who doesn't have a Charm to negate surprise, which is admittedly really easy to get.
The Blazing Attack is nice, and great for cutting down weak enemies.
Overall it seem like a very good way to let you match up against enemies who have perfect defenses, by making unexpected attacks or forcing them to spend tons of motes if they don't have a flurrybreaker. And any fiery wargodspawn ought to be able to shoot blasts of fire out of his sword. I like it overall, though if you were a Solar I'd say it was overpowered.

He doesn't have to, is the point. It is too easy to inadvertently kill Exalts, as I discovered very early, when I had to lie about the result of a dice roll to keep a PC alive.

Would just banning Grand Goremauls and most of the other ultra-killy weapons help?
In addition, would reducing minimum damage help? It seems to make low amounts of soak (or even high amounts, if you're getting hit with a bunch of attacks in a flurry) kinda pointless.

[Fortuna]

@Random: Wait, do you mean making lots of stuff or saying lots of stuff? If you want to make stuff, Sidereals get an Essence 4 charm called Implicit Construction Methodology that lets you build things really fast. If you want to say stuff, Talking is a Free Action applies in Exalted, too. And long mid-battle speeches are entirely thematically appropriate.

Making, definitely making.
Also, talking isn't a free action, it's a long tick at least

[Jokasti]

Once again, I feel the need for a Spock Eyebrow smiley.

I meant how can I have a character able to produce technogabble-worthy effects in a reasonable amount of time (preferably in-combat). I can do technogabble just fine.

Ah, well Nova had all those things made ahead of time and Misho seemed to just pick something with a lot of choices up randomly (that Nova had made ahead of time).
I would just say Craft charms? Depends on Exaltation.

[SurlySeraph]

You make a fair point, though there are some small exceptions I can point to. There's a martial arts style that says you can comment on your opponent's technique as a stunt, and I hardly think that requires a minute-long social attack.

I know there's a rule somewhere about trading in successes to reduce the amount of time something takes, though I can't find it.

Also, I can't find anything that lets you craft in combat (there's a Dragonblooded charm called Stone-Carving Fingers that might work, but you need to take a minute to set it up beforehand), barring clauses in the aforementioned rule that I can't find.

[golentan]

Can't god bloods pick up principle of motion? Anyone who can and doesn't has no business claiming to be combat focused, IMO.

Anyway, talking is a free action. Talking with any mechanical effect on another person is not.

[The Rose Dragon]

Can't god bloods pick up principle of motion? Anyone who can and doesn't has no business claiming to be combat focused, IMO..

At Essence 3, yes, they can. However, it's not as useful to God-blooded as it is to spirits, since they can't use other Charms at the same time like spirits can.

[Fortuna]

I'm looking at building a Lunar (for your game, TRD) and am wondering how best to go about being a combat monster. Relevant changes from core/Lunars: 2 free Excellencies from Caste and Favored, Dawn Appendix rules, additional -0 health levels equal to Essence, 100 xp. I've never done a Lunar before, but they look cool. Thoughts?

[Reynard]

Gift Charms and Fury Charms.

Claws of the Silver Moon (In Dex, IIRC) is a must, as they are better than most artifact weapons from the get go, and get even better over time.

Sadly, the Lunar PD (A dodge) is buried a few charms deep, though there is an Ink Monkeys one (Parry) that I'm not sure on the charm requirements for.

[The Rose Dragon]

I'm looking at building a Lunar (for your game, TRD)

[...]

free purchases of OBT to Stamina

No. No. No no no no no no. I hate that rule, and I would never use it in a game.

Also, I just realized I forgot to include Schaefer's chargen rules. Let me go do that.

[Fortuna]

No. No. No no no no no no. I hate that rule, and I would never use it in a game.

Also, I just realized I forgot to include Schaefer's chargen rules. Let me go do that.

Apologies. Misread/misremembered.

[Mattarias, King.]

@Mattarias: Speaking as someone who's new to Exalted, it looks reasonable to me, given that you said you're God-Blooded and the rest of the party's Celestial.
Speed 4 and Rate 5 is kinda intense, especially for something that does 16L. I don't know what extra action charms God-Blooded get access to, but ones that work of your weapon's existing rate would be very powerful with that. Jade Hearthstone Bracers or another way of getting the speed down to 3 would make this even more terrifying, letting you make 10 attacks in the time some weapons make 2.
Automatic surprise-reestablishment is good. Is the penalty to the opposed roll external (removes successes) or internal (removes dice from the pool)? At Essence 3 or so an external penalty would be pretty damn powerful against anyone who doesn't have a Charm to negate surprise, which is admittedly really easy to get.
The Blazing Attack is nice, and great for cutting down weak enemies.
Overall it seem like a very good way to let you match up against enemies who have perfect defenses, by making unexpected attacks or forcing them to spend tons of motes if they don't have a flurrybreaker. And any fiery wargodspawn ought to be able to shoot blasts of fire out of his sword. I like it overall, though if you were a Solar I'd say it was overpowered.

Uhm, alright, thanks. I wasn't really thinking about all that stuff, I just wanted something that was cool and did a lot of damage, son of a fiery war god and all. I dunno about the penalty though. I'll go ask my ST.

Can't god bloods pick up principle of motion? Anyone who can and doesn't has no business claiming to be combat focused, IMO.

Yup, at essence 3. I'm only essence 2. >>; For now. But yeah, like Rose Dragon said, it'll only be really useful when I ascend.

Yes, ascend. Not exalt.

[golentan]

At Essence 3, yes, they can. However, it's not as useful to God-blooded as it is to spirits, since they can't use other Charms at the same time like spirits can.

But... That's not the point of PomPoming. The point is you have the charm activated well before battle, and when things go south you kick off your no-charm-activation flurry PLUS whatever charms you've got. You never actually use the charm to bank actions in the same action you use the flurry...

[Mattarias, King.]

But... That's not the point of PomPoming. The point is you have the charm activated well before battle, and when things go south you kick off your no-charm-activation flurry PLUS whatever charms you've got. You never actually use the charm to bank actions in the same action you use the flurry...

Uhh.. I'm.. Gonna hafta reread that charm then..

Dunno how okay my ST might be with me doing that when I get it.. But if so, that's definitely a goal I should look at after reaching Essence 3...

[Reynard]

Uhh.. I'm.. Gonna hafta reread that charm then..

Dunno how okay my ST might be with me doing that when I get it.. But if so, that's definitely a goal I should look at after reaching Essence 3...

Eh, considering it's you only really way of keeping up with the Exalts, and that you have to work with spirit charms, which are pretty sucky... It's not that bad, cheese-wise.

[golentan]

Also, the errata limits the number of actions you can "draw" on a given flurry to your essence, so it's not the "OH GOD ELEVEN ACTION DEATH FLURRY COMING FOR ME!" that it once was.

[Mattarias, King.]

Eh, considering it's you only really way of keeping up with the Exalts, and that you have to work with spirit charms, which are pretty sucky... It's not that bad, cheese-wise.

Good point...

Also, the errata limits the number of actions you can "draw" on a given flurry to your essence, so it's not the "OH GOD ELEVEN ACTION DEATH FLURRY COMING FOR ME!" that it once was.

Oh. Hm, dang. Well, alright then. Still decent, but more balanced, I suppose.

...On that note, can someone please explain rate and flurry? Because I think my group's been doing actions wrong..

So far, what we understand is that Rate is how many times you can attack with a weapon in a flurry. This makes Rate kind of a useless-type stat, since you can't really make more than one or two attacks without taking pretty sizeable penalties on your attacks and whiffing a lot. Is this how it's supposed to work?

..Oh, and tangentially related, what is the Onslaught Penalty and how does it work? I know it has something to do with attacking, or rather, being attacked too much..

[Reynard]

So far, what we understand is that Rate is how many times you can attack with a weapon in a flurry. This makes Rate kind of a useless-type stat, since you can't really make more than one or two attacks without taking pretty sizeable penalties on your attacks and whiffing a lot. Is this how it's supposed to work?

Yes.

Rate sucks, unless you're a Fire-Aspect Immaculate.

..Oh, and tangentially related, what is the Onslaught Penalty and how does it work? I know it has something to do with attacking, or rather, being attacked too much..

Every single time any single person attacks you before your DV refreshes, you DVs drop by one.

So, say someone made a 3-attack flurry against you, at the first attack, you DV would be at full; Second, it'd be at -1; Third would be -2.

If that person managed to attack again beofre you next action, for whatver reason (Most common being that they're a DB with their OP Speed bonus weapons), then his first attack would only have to deal with (your DV-3).

However, if another person jumped in and attacked you at the same time, then your DVs against him would be full.

This is after applying any modifiers from you own actions, of course. Hope that's clear.

[Mattarias, King.]

Yes.

Rate sucks, unless you're a Fire-Aspect Immaculate.


Every single time any single person attacks you before your DV refreshes, you DVs drop by one.

So, say someone made a 3-attack flurry against you, at the first attack, you DV would be at full; Second, it'd be at -1; Third would be -2.

If that person managed to attack again beofre you next action, for whatver reason (Most common being that they're a DB with their OP Speed bonus weapons), then his first attack would only have to deal with (your DV-3).

However, if another person jumped in and attacked you at the same time, then your DVs against him would be full.

This is after applying any modifiers from you own actions, of course. Hope that's clear.

Oohhh.. Huh. Alright. That makes multiple attacks a lot more attractive. Thank you. So if I decide to completely wail on one guy for an attack, just going all out, his DVs would be in tatters, but only against me, right?

-On that note, do you take the -1 penalty to DV EVERY time you attack in a flurry? I suppose it'd make sense, but just making sure.

[Kyeudo]

Oohhh.. Huh. Alright. That makes multiple attacks a lot more attractive. Thank you. So if I decide to completely wail on one guy for an attack, just going all out, his DVs would be in tatters, but only against me, right?

Yes. This is why Extra Action Charms are so good and why Flurries are even an option in combat.

-On that note, do you take the -1 penalty to DV EVERY time you attack in a flurry? I suppose it'd make sense, but just making sure.

Yes. This is why normal Flurries are generally a bad idea. It's not that you miss alot, its that your DVs suck afterwards.

[Reynard]

Also, your accuracy pool will be in a similar state to his DV pool.

Reason:

When making a flurry, the number of dice in each attack is reduced by the number of attacks in the flurry + 1 per attack. So:

Shiny McSolar has a raw accuracy pool of 15.

He makes, for example, a 4-attack flurry, a veritable hailstorm of blows.
Here's where things start getting bad for him. The first attack in the flurry would only have 11 dice. The second would have 10, third would have 9, and fourth would only have 8.

However, Burny McFirey is an Immaculate Fire Dragon Stylist. Immaculates using this style get an added bonus, they don't suffer that big penalty to their dice pool.

So, if Burny has a pool of 15 and makes a 4 attack flurry, his pools look like this:

Att1: 15
Att2: 14
Att3: 13
Att4: 12

Even his smallest pool is bigger than Shiny's biggest.

[Mattarias, King.]

Yes. This is why Extra Action Charms are so good and why Flurries are even an option in combat.

Ooh.. Gotcha. With Extra Action charms, does your DV refresh between each action, or do you hafta wait an actual tick? Because if it does, hooo boy, are those charms GOOD.

Yes. This is why normal Flurries are generally a bad idea. It's not that you miss alot, its that your DVs suck afterwards.

Mm.. Good point. Don't want sucky DVs..

Also, your accuracy pool will be in a similar state to his DV pool.

Reason:

When making a flurry, the number of dice in each attack is reduced by the number of attacks in the flurry + 1 per attack. So:

Shiny McSolar has a raw accuracy pool of 15.

He makes, for example, a 4-attack flurry, a veritable hailstorm of blows.
Here's where things start getting bad for him. The first attack in the flurry would only have 11 dice. The second would have 10, third would have 9, and fourth would only have 8.

However, Burny McFirey is an Immaculate Fire Dragon Stylist. Immaculates using this style get an added bonus, they don't suffer that big penalty to their dice pool.

So, if Burny has a pool of 15 and makes a 4 attack flurry, his pools look like this:

Att1: 15
Att2: 14
Att3: 13
Att4: 12

Even his smallest pool is bigger than Shiny's biggest.

PFFFT.

1: That penalty is HUGE! The only reason I could see attacking that much to be useful would be if you had a really fast weapon, lowering your opponent's DV with a huge flurry and then hitting them for MASSIVE DAMAGE on your next tick.

2: E-GAD, Immaculate Fire Dragon style is NICE. I may have to play a fire dragonblood in the future...

[Yuki Akuma]

Note: Fire Dragon Style's flurry penalty decrease only applies when wielding short swords or short daiklaves.

[gartius]

That penalty is HUGE! The only reason I could see attacking that much to be useful would be if you had a really fast weapon, lowering your opponent's DV with a huge flurry and then hitting them for MASSIVE DAMAGE on your next tick.

Well one on one yes that would happen, but what is also useful is if one of your circle has a GRAND GOREMAUL OF ANETHMA SLAYING! but can't hit the other side of a barn door becasue the DVs of your opponent are just too high. You flurry, mulch his DV to pitiful amounts to allow the crater-waitin-to-happen actually hit the target. (but then you come across perfects...and you rage quit)