General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course.

[Reynard]

Why not just have it heal 1 health level at the beginning of each tick it acts on, like Halting the Scarlet Flow (gift form)?

Yeah, and this'll help keep book keeping down.

Instead of having to remember to do it every five ticks, just remember to do it when ever the Behemoth gets an action. This'll also let it Guard and regenerate, which is a fairly iconic feature of bosses.

[TheCountAlucard]

Yeah, and this'll help keep book keeping down.

Instead of having to remember to do it every five ticks, just remember to do it when ever the Behemoth gets an action. This'll also let it Guard and regenerate, which is a fairly iconic feature of bosses.

Okay, point made.

I thought it'd be fairly cool to have them discover said behemoth in the bowels of a barely-functioning First Age manse; if that won't provide some awesome stunt-fodder for the fight, nothing will. Guess I'll hit up Oadenol's after this...

And don't worry, I won't be polluting this thread here with my game ideas for much longer; I'm likely to start a campaign journal thread for exactly that.

[Jokasti]

And don't worry, I won't be polluting this thread here with my game ideas for much longer; I'm likely to start a campaign journal thread for exactly that.

That's what it's for; pollute away.

[Cyborg Mage]

Back to Alchemicals. There are a lot of references in Alchies to the Engine of Extinction-Autocthon's Neverborn incarnation. Is there any canon on it besides the very basic references in the book? Or is it really going to have to be homebrewed for any sort of campaign setting?

[Jokasti]

Back to Alchemicals. There are a lot of references in Alchies to the Engine of Extinction-Autocthon's Neverborn incarnation. Is there any canon on it besides the very basic references in the book? Or is it really going to have to be homebrewed for any sort of campaign setting?

Sounds more like an option, were Autobot to join his bros and sisses in battle (no idea why he would, but hey, Rule 0). I'm sure CoCD:Autobot will expound. We really don't have a whole lot of info on Alchies right now. If it's not in MoEP:Alchies, either the information isn't out yet or you should Rule 0 it. Alternatively, pick up some of the 1e books.
So yeah, you could homebrew it.... I don't know how that would work for like Abyssals, I guess he could make new Exaltations and bind their ghosts into Deathlords n ladies. He's clever enough to find a way. More smarts than clever, though. If you were to be wanting to make Abyssals for him... As far as Apostates, I would wager that either all Alchies would become them when he suffers fetich death, or that they could try even harder than they were to restore him to Primordial-hood. A beacon in the darkness, etc.

[horngeek]

*cringes*

Apparently, the devs hate Transformer references in relation to Autocthon.

[Cyborg Mage]

I was really thinking all Alchies become Apostates, the Class background becomes meaningless (All humans are slaves.) and Abyssals might be able to get some Voidtech. Aside from that, haven't thought much about the Alchies/Abyssals, focusing more on what Autobot actually turns into.

[Jokasti]

*cringes*

Apparently, the devs hate Transformer references in relation to Autocthon.

Which is why we use them. Also, because Autobot is easier and quicker to type than Autochthon....

I was really thinking all Alchies become Apostates, the Class background becomes meaningless (All humans are slaves.) and Abyssals might be able to get some Voidtech. Aside from that, haven't thought much about the Alchies/Abyssals, focusing more on what Autobot actually turns into.

What he turns into? Well, right now he's a big chunk of sleeping metal floating in Elsewhere.... so I would say in order for him to surrender he would have to come back to Creation, which would open up Alchie-Creation relations... And then the UCS would be like, hey, those Apostates dudes are kind of scary so they're Creatures of Darkness now, except he can't feel fear, or something. So then Autobot would have to surrender and ol' Sol would ceremonially kill the Core... and then he would become a big chunk of EVIL sleeping metal, except even more asleep than before. And he has the smarts to get a few deathlords and then begin Apostate/Abyssal creation and deployment... and then *campaign*

[Cyborg Mage]

Sure, why would Sol need to do anything? He's already deathly sick, and if the Palladium Wyrm's motivation is to be believed... Yeah. He can die on his own. Also, seeing as there's all Gremlin Syndrome everywhere, I imagine chitin and mutated flesh growing alongside human processing plants and massive city-killing weapons. Aimed at everything.

[Jokasti]

Sure, why would Sol need to do anything? He's already deathly sick, and if the Palladium Wyrm's motivation is to be believed... Yeah. He can die on his own. Also, seeing as there's all Gremlin Syndrome everywhere, I imagine chitin and mutated flesh growing alongside human processing plants and massive city-killing weapons. Aimed at everything.

The Palladium Worm is one artifact... Not exactly threatening, just a nuisance to the whole of Autochthonia. And yes, the sickness is quite worrying, but the UCS might be scared of how it affects Creation, were it to spread out from Autobot. He might take preemptive strides to make sure it doesn't happen, especially if the Maidens were to nudge him.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I don't know how that would work for like Abyssals, I guess he could make new Exaltations and bind their ghosts into Deathlords n ladies. He's clever enough to find a way. More smarts than clever, though. If you were to be wanting to make Abyssals for him...

You need a Solar shard to make an Abyssal shard. I'm pretty sure he would need access to the Incarnae to make more Celestial Exalted, and I don't know if he's capable of making Terrestials.

Assuming he can remember how to make them, at any rate. From the rest of the Neverborn, it sounds like dying puts a pretty big boot into your hard drive.

As far as Apostates, I would wager that either all Alchies would become them when he suffers fetich death, or that they could try even harder than they were to restore him to Primordial-hood. A beacon in the darkness, etc.

Why would that happen? Solars don't suddenly become powerless or turn into Abyssals when the Unconquered Sun dies. One of the biggest design features of the Exalted is that they aren't dependent on any sort of master or outside power source to function.

Also, fetich death wouldn't kill Autochthon. It would redefine him (if I remember right, this is actually brought up as a really, really drastic measure you could take to cure the robocancer), but Autochthon himself would not die.

*cringes*

Apparently, the devs hate Transformer references in relation to Autocthon.

You're not referring to this by any chance are you? Because he's not a developer.

and Abyssals might be able to get some Voidtech.

Transorganic Desecration Cyst says hi.

Aside from that, haven't thought much about the Alchies/Abyssals, focusing more on what Autobot actually turns into.

I dunno if you should focus too much on what Autochthon becomes. Take a look at the Neverborn. They really don't have too much impact on the world directly, and they have to work through the Deathlords and the Abyssals to get things done. It would probably be better to focus on who would be working for Autochthon after he dies.

so I would say in order for him to surrender he would have to come back to Creation, which would open up Alchie-Creation relations

He doesn't have to come back to Creation, though. You can just punch a hole in the Seal from Autobot's side, and gate in from there. Autochthon doesn't even need to be awake for this.

except he can't feel fear, or something.

He can feel fear. All Virtues at 5 means he almost certainly won't act irrationally on it , but not feeling fear is something out of a Limit Break, not just having high Virtues.

So then Autobot would have to surrender

Er. Why would he surrender, even if he is awake? And why would Sol ask for his surrender? He feels pity for Autochthon (his explicit Intimacy towards him), he's not really afraid of him.

and ol' Sol would ceremonially kill the Core...

Again, you need to do more to kill a fetich to kill a Primordial. Taking out a fetich is sort of like carving someone's lung out, but you can regrow lungs. I mean, sure it hurts like hell, and it could lead to your death, and it severely inconveniences you for a while, and it puts you out of action for a good bit, and you're always going to have a scar, and I kind of forgot where I was going with this metaphor.

And yes, the sickness is quite worrying, but the UCS might be scared of how it affects Creation, were it to spread out from Autobot. He might take preemptive strides to make sure it doesn't happen, especially if the Maidens were to nudge him.

I think the Unconquered Sun is smart enough to know that's not how it works. His robocancer is an honest-to-Luna Primordial Charm tree. I mean, theoretically, the only beings it could possibly spread to are the Yozis. And that would require Autochthon granting an Infernal access to his native Charmset (which no one besides him has). And even then that requires some fiat to make the Robocancer charms move.

The Palladium Worm is one artifact... Not exactly threatening, just a nuisance to the whole of Autochthonia

Well, again, killing the fetich doesn't kill the Primordial, but having Autochthon suddenly turn into a big incorporeal ball of Essence in the middle of Elsewhere wouldn't be very nice for anyone inside of him.

I mean obviously you can ignore all of this for the sake of a campaign, but if you're running of canon, the scenario you describe has some holes.

EDIT: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORDS

[Drascin]

*cringes*

Apparently, the devs hate Transformer references in relation to Autocthon.

They do? I know the mod for the Exalted forums does hate them so, but I've never seen the devs themselves speak up against it.

And if they do, eh. I don't like a lot of stuff they do either, so we're even .

[Jokasti]

You need a Solar shard to make an Abyssal shard. I'm pretty sure he would need access to the Incarnae to make more Celestial Exalted, and I don't know if he's capable of making Terrestials.

I forget, who made the Exaltations again? If the Yozis and Deathlords could figure out how to change his creations, I'm sure he could build them from scratch better than the corrupted ones. And he can't make Dragon-Blooded afaik.

Assuming he can remember how to make them, at any rate. From the rest of the Neverborn, it sounds like dying puts a pretty big boot into your hard drive.

Why would he forget? Primordials think much differently than mortals, if you can call it thinking. I doubt he didn't back up that information, or some sort of equivalent. I'm pretty sure Yozi's remember how it was before they were Yozi's, hence the not wanting to be Yozi's anymore thing.

Why would that happen? Solars don't suddenly become powerless or turn into Abyssals when the Unconquered Sun dies. One of the biggest design features of the Exalted is that they aren't dependent on any sort of master or outside power source to function.

Yes, but do Solars live inside of the UCS? Are they influenced by his Essence at every point in their lives, completely and utterly?

Also, fetich death wouldn't kill Autochthon. It would redefine him (if I remember right, this is actually brought up as a really, really drastic measure you could take to cure the robocancer), but Autochthon himself would not die.

I know... he would also have to surrender, I think, in order to become a Yozi, or slain to become a Neverborn. But fetich death is a large step in the process. I think the Ebon Dragon actually didn't suffer fetich death, although iirc his fetich is left up to Rule 0.

I dunno if you should focus too much on what Autochthon becomes. Take a look at the Neverborn. They really don't have too much impact on the world directly, and they have to work through the Deathlords and the Abyssals to get things done. It would probably be better to focus on who would be working for Autochthon after he dies.

Yes, but again, the Alchemicals live and exist inside of him. They would be influenced by his change greatly, and what he becomes influences what they become. It could not change them at all, and they could try to restore him to a sickness free Primordial again, or they could all turn to Apostates, or something. This is all conjecture.

He doesn't have to come back to Creation, though. You can just punch a hole in the Seal from Autobot's side, and gate in from there. Autochthon doesn't even need to be awake for this.

Yes... but you would need to be a Divine Minister, and none of them want their master to die or become Yozi-fied.

He can feel fear. All Virtues at 5 means he almost certainly won't act irrationally on it , but not feeling fear is something out of a Limit Break, not just having high Virtues.

I need to reread the blurb in GotMH:UCS about his emotions and how they're affected by his virtues, but he wouldn't be afraid for himself, but for Creation is what I was going for.

Er. Why would he surrender, even if he is awake? And why would Sol ask for his surrender? He feels pity for Autochthon (his explicit Intimacy towards him), he's not really afraid of him.

Because he's tired of his sickness and Creation? Autochthon seems pretty depressed to me. Maybe he wants it to end. Or maybe he just wants to be accepted by his kind. There was something about that in MoEP:Alchies about how one of the reasons Autochthon exiled himself to Elsewhere was because he was worried the Gods might try something, and he was lonely as one of the last of his kind. Also, Gaia doesn't really like to look at his ugly mug, and he knows it.

Again, you need to do more to kill a fetich to kill a Primordial. Taking out a fetich is sort of like carving someone's lung out, but you can regrow lungs. I mean, sure it hurts like hell, and it could lead to your death, and it severely inconveniences you for a while, and it puts you out of action for a good bit, and you're always going to have a scar, and I kind of forgot where I was going with this metaphor.

Yes, but I'm pretty sure at the Surrender there were more than a few ceremonial executions that aided the process of becoming Yozis. I think Autobot is far along enough in his sickness that the death of the Core would lead to him becoming a Neverborn.

I think the Unconquered Sun is smart enough to know that's not how it works. His robocancer is an honest-to-Luna Primordial Charm tree. I mean, theoretically, the only beings it could possibly spread to are the Yozis. And that would require Autochthon granting an Infernal access to his native Charmset (which no one besides him has). And even then that requires some fiat to make the Robocancer charms move.

What about the Apostates? They could go out and spread destruction in Creation very easily, methinks. I could see UCS entering Autochthon and trying to cleanse him, maybe, but if that didn't work he may have to put him to sleep, permanently.

Well, again, killing the fetich doesn't kill the Primordial, but having Autochthon suddenly turn into a big incorporeal ball of Essence in the middle of Elsewhere wouldn't be very nice for anyone inside of him.

Or everything else in Elsewhere, or anything close to him, I suppose. I don't know how things interact in Elsewhere.

I mean obviously you can ignore all of this for the sake of a campaign, but if you're running of canon, the scenario you describe has some holes.

Exalted canon isn't exactly a flawless tapetry in and of itself.

[DragonSinged]

Alright, so my friends and I are planning on starting up our first game of Exalted.

Woo!

Medium-sized group, probably 5 of us, all told. We all want to play, though, so it looks like we're basically going to take turns Storytelling, sort of a... one person runs it for a while, then change-off. We're working on the details of that, but from my experience, the players in this group are all pretty good at not using meta-game knowledge in-character.

Looks like we'll probably be playing Vanilla Exalted, with a circle of fledgling Solars.

Anyways, this is going to be my first game of Exalted, and I haven't put together an Exalted character before, so I thought I'd run my concept past you guys here and see what input you might contribute to help me put together an interesting (and hopefully playable) character.

So, the character I wanted to play has a bit of a rocky past.

Basically, when she was mortal, she was a very pretty girl, who grew up to be a very pretty lady (What do you think is the highest appearance score a normal mortal should be able to obtain? Is 3 dots too much?). She was pretty shortly enslaved, and sold off. From this point, she was basically a pleasure slave.. I'm thinking something like the Consorts from Firefly, only without all the freedom. However, she became sought-after enough for her beauty and intelligence that she carried a high price, and became something of a commodity, so that when her current owners fell on hard times, she was sold off again (She would frequently nudge her current owners along in this decision).

Now, the nature of her, ah, occupation, being what it was, meant she was frequently left alone in her owners bedrooms or studies, which meant that she had time to read interesting private documents and books from time to time.

Anyways, as I understand it, mortals can Exalt for a variety of things, not just straight-up combat or courage or whatever (correct me if I'm wrong), and this girl's beauty along with her growing skills of manipulation and the knowledge she was building led to her eventually Exalting into the Zenith Caste. As with all Zenith Caste Solars, she was granted a vision of the Unconquered Sun, in which he appeared to her and said simply, "Be free." (As of Exalting, her appearance will probably move up to 5 dots.)

Now, having spent her life thus far in slavery, she may have interpreted this somewhat differently than others might have. The way she reasoned it out, if she were to be free, this meant that she owed no loyalty to anyone who had not earned it, including the Unconquered Sun Himself (may change this point.)

As such, she has spent the first few months of her time as a Solar (prior to the beginning of the game) moving from place to place, gathering up resources and knowledge to increase her own power. As a side effect, her now supernatural beauty has gained her a following of mortals who view her as some sort of fertility goddess, gaining her 2 dots in the cult background.

I was thinking about possibly having her use Sorcery, though I'm not set on that, and she will be pretty heavy into social-fu.

As far as personality goes, she is going to have high Temperance and Conviction, and low Compassion and Valor. She is adept at manipulating people to her own benefit.


Anyways, that's basically the concept that has been floating around in my head, and I was hoping you guys could help me along the path of turning this into a playable character. Advice, criticism, changes you would make, how you would go about actually building this, all is welcome!

Thanks!

[TheCountAlucard]

What do you think is the highest appearance score a normal mortal should be able to obtain? Is 3 dots too much?

No, it's not too much; mortal attributes are capped at five dots (without factoring in things like Wyld mutations). 3's just above-average, so really, if you wanted to, you could even go with Appearance 5 without too much justification.

[Fortuna]

If it's your first time with Exalted, don't use sorcery. It's a tricky little system and difficult to make work well with a starting character.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I forget, who made the Exaltations again? If the Yozis and Deathlords could figure out how to change his creations, I'm sure he could build them from scratch better than the corrupted ones. And he can't make Dragon-Blooded afaik.

Autochthon designed them. He then gave the templates to the gods, who put their own Essence into them, making the Exalted. He also told Gaia how to split up her lesser souls in order to make the Dragon-Blooded. Autochthon never made an actual Exalted with his own hands.

Why would he forget? Primordials think much differently than mortals, if you can call it thinking. I doubt he didn't back up that information, or some sort of equivalent. I'm pretty sure Yozi's remember how it was before they were Yozi's, hence the not wanting to be Yozi's anymore thing.

Biiiiiig difference between Neverborn and Yozis, though. Neverborn aren't exactly right in the head, even by the standards of world-creating eldritch abomination.

Yes, but do Solars live inside of the UCS? Are they influenced by his Essence at every point in their lives, completely and utterly?

No, but it doesn't matter. You can take an Alchemical right out of Autochthon the second they're "born", and they'll be just fine forever. The only thing they need Autochthon for is the initial spark of power that creates the Exalted. If Autochthon dies, you couldn't make more Alchemicals, but the ones already alive would be just fine.

I know... he would also have to surrender, I think, in order to become a Yozi, or slain to become a Neverborn. But fetich death is a large step in the process. I think the Ebon Dragon actually didn't suffer fetich death, although iirc his fetich is left up to Rule 0.

Oh, sorry, I might have misinterpreted what you were saying there. I thought you were still talking about the Neverborn. The Yozi/Primordial distinction is a really, really fuzzy one. All of the Yozis did suffer fetich death, though, which is how they made Malfeas and stuck everyone in there. The Ebon Dragon did too, but he basically only suffered a change in form, if I remember right (he went from being a literal shadow in the shape of a dragon to being a dragon made out of solid shadow).

Yes, but again, the Alchemicals live and exist inside of him.

Right, but the mortals living in Autochthon aren't going to change if he dies, are they (besides dying horribly)? Just because you live somewhere doesn't mean that you personally change in accordance to that place, especially if you're an Exalted.

They would be influenced by his change greatly, and what he becomes influences what they become.

No, they wouldn't be. The whole point of the Exalted is that they aren't inherently beholden to any outside force. It's why the Primordials couldn't force the Unconquered Sun to order the Solars to stand down, because the Solars got to go "lol no" when the Sun told them to cut that **** out. Free will is explicitly the biggest part of being an Exalted.

It could not change them at all, and they could try to restore him to a sickness free Primordial again, or they could all turn to Apostates, or something. This is all conjecture.

We do have explicit game effects for what happens if the patron of an Exalted dies, though. The Return of the Scarlet Empress spells out what happens when the Unconquered Sun dies. Every single Solar in existence is instantly restored back to full motes, Willpower, and Virtue channels, gains an Intimacy of righteous vengeance towards whoever is responsible for Sol's death (the Ebon Dragon in RotSE), and gets a free dot of Essence and 10 free Charms.

Yes... but you would need to be a Divine Minister, and none of them want their master to die or become Yozi-fied.

It's an Essence 8 Municipal Charm. It's pretty much invincible from the outside (First Age Twilights couldn't break the thing), but from the inside, there's literally dozens of Exalted who could do it. I don't think the Divine Ministers are even capable of doing it, actually, besides by proxy with the Adamants.

And why would Autochthon die or become Yozi-fied if he established portals into Creation? He fled Creation because he was afraid of the Solars and their growing dickishness (see: Great Geas), not because he thought they were going to stuff him into Malfeas.

Similarly, opening a portal would do nothing to the robocancer. The Eight Nations would most likely open it to get materials (which was the premise of the Locust Crusade back in 1e, ignoring how bad that was). Getting outside help wouldn't be a bad idea to try to treat his disease, either. And it's not like anyone is going to stomp on the people of Autochthon. All Eight Nations together are one of the single most powerful military forces currently around, anywhere. Even a single one of the Nations is an incredibly powerful force, and they, at bare minimum, have to hold a single portal into Creation.

I need to reread the blurb in GotMH:UCS about his emotions and how they're affected by his virtues, but he wouldn't be afraid for himself, but for Creation is what I was going for.

True, to a certain extent.

Because he's tired of his sickness and Creation? Autochthon seems pretty depressed to me.

Uh, he's been in basically a coma for thousands of years. It's kind of hard to say how he would feel, unless you woke him up.

Maybe he wants it to end. Or maybe he just wants to be accepted by his kind. There was something about that in MoEP:Alchies about how one of the reasons Autochthon exiled himself to Elsewhere was because he was worried the Gods might try something, and he was lonely as one of the last of his kind. Also, Gaia doesn't really like to look at his ugly mug, and he knows it.

Autochthon left because he was (justifiably) paranoid and afraid. The Primordial War went straight past his revenge fantasies and into the realm of horror for him, and once the war was won, he became paranoid that the Twilights would become jealous of him (and they probably would have tried to kill him and dissect his corpse if he hadn't left, in all honesty). The Great Geas, with the Unconquered Sun forcing him to bind the Jadefolk on behalf of the Solar Deliberative, is what made him finally up and leave.

Yes, but I'm pretty sure at the Surrender there were more than a few ceremonial executions that aided the process of becoming Yozis. I think Autobot is far along enough in his sickness that the death of the Core would lead to him becoming a Neverborn.

You do know Yozis and Neverborn are two different things, right? Or was that just a typo?

What about the Apostates? They could go out and spread destruction in Creation very easily, methinks. I could see UCS entering Autochthon and trying to cleanse him, maybe, but if that didn't work he may have to put him to sleep, permanently.

The Unconquered Sun does not have any power over Autochthon, though. Things of the Void and Creatures of Darkness are different things. Besides that, the old oaths and Charms from back when the Primordials rule still apply. The Unconquered Sun can't do jack squat to Autochthon or any part of him, just like he couldn't run out and punch Malfeas-That-Was in the face back in the Primordial War.

Or everything else in Elsewhere, or anything close to him, I suppose. I don't know how things interact in Elsewhere.

Very, very boringly.

Exalted canon isn't exactly a flawless tapetry in and of itself.

Nah, but we do have some stuff we can go on. None of this is contradicted anywhere, I believe.

EDIT

Basically, when she was mortal, she was a very pretty girl, who grew up to be a very pretty lady (What do you think is the highest appearance score a normal mortal should be able to obtain? Is 3 dots too much?).

Like TCA said, 5 is the mortal high. Even most of the Exalted, besides Alchemicals, can't get past that until they hit Essence 6. If she's a highly-sought after courtesan based on her looks, Appearance 4 or 5 makes perfect sense.

Anyways, as I understand it, mortals can Exalt for a variety of things, not just straight-up combat or courage or whatever (correct me if I'm wrong)

Yep. One of the canon, example Solars Exalted when she cracked a code in an old book.

and this girl's beauty along with her growing skills of manipulation and the knowledge she was building led to her eventually Exalting into the Zenith Caste.

This does work, but there's always a moment where you Exalt. Where you accomplish or attempt something spectacular, be that physical, mental, social, spiritual, whatever (another canon Solar Exalted basically when he decided he need to go in to rehab). That's how it works for Solars, anyway.

As with all Zenith Caste Solars, she was granted a vision of the Unconquered Sun, in which he appeared to her and said simply, "Be free." (As of Exalting, her appearance will probably move up to 5 dots.)

The vision works quite nicely.

You don't build a heroic mortal and then add Solar stuff, normally. You just follow the character guidelines in the book. You get 8 dots in your primary Attribute category, 6 in your secondary, and 4 in your tertiary. You would presumably put 8 dots into your Social attributes, 6 into your Mental, and 4 into your Physical.

Now, having spent her life thus far in slavery, she may have interpreted this somewhat differently than others might have. The way she reasoned it out, if she were to be free, this meant that she owed no loyalty to anyone who had not earned it, including the Unconquered Sun Himself (may change this point.)

Oh, no, that's perfectly Solar-esque. Being an arrogant god-king who decides that perfection incarnate, not to mention your patron, needs to meet your standards to be worthy of you is exactly the sort of thing Solars tend to do.

I was thinking about possibly having her use Sorcery, though I'm not set on that, and she will be pretty heavy into social-fu.

Sorcery is kind of tricky, but if you don't build your entire character around it, it's not incredibly hard to use.

As far as personality goes, she is going to have high Temperance and Conviction, and low Compassion and Valor. She is adept at manipulating people to her own benefit.

Sounds about right.

[Kyeudo]

*cringes*

Apparently, the devs hate Transformer references in relation to Autocthon.

Especially since Alchemicals are obviously not transformers. They're Reploids, from MegaMan X.

[Tavar]

Another problem with doing sorcery is that the core book doesn't have all that much in it. You really need another book(the White/Black Treaties) to get a decent collection of spells.

Edit:
Okay, what's people's deal with Lillun? In the linked thread I've seen her name brought up several times, but there's no explanation, just a name.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Okay, what's people's deal with Lillun? In the linked thread I've seen her name brought up several times, but there's no explanation, just a name.

To put it bluntly, she's a 12 year old girl who has been raped on pretty much every single level imaginable.

Lillun is the host of the 50 Infernal Exaltations when they're not in use.

Having that much tainted Essence flowing through her has rendered her an insane, twisted, constantly shifting blob of flesh that would make a Lovecraftian horror run screaming for Azazoth. On a good day, she's catatonic. On a bad day...

*shudder*

She's... something of a topic of contention, to put it mildly.

[Tavar]

I know about her history, I wonder what the contention is; what was done to her is among the most vile acts possible. What pet peeve are you going to draw from that?

[Rhyvurg]

Lillun is the Scarlet Empress' youngest daughter, now used as a vessel to hold unused Infernal Exaltations. She unbirths and rebirths some random demon she manages to grab, and plants an exaltation inside it to carry to Creation to give to a mortal. In the Infernal manual, she's the bloated fat girl the demons bring into that arena, the "phylactery-womb".

[Mr.Bookworm]

I know about her history, I wonder what the contention is; what was done to her is among the most vile acts possible. What pet peeve are you going to draw from that?

Mainly whether it's simply pointless shock value, or shock value that proves a point.

I personally think he probably could have done something a bit cooler with the concept, but overall, I think it reinforces the point pretty well.

[Kyeudo]

Putting that girl out of her misery is probably the single act with the highest chance of bringing peace to Creation, as it would release 50 Exaltations with no Great Curse, no Torment (no demon host = no Unwoven Coadjutor = no Urge and noone to inflict Torment), and access to the Charms of five of the most powerful beings in existance to do what they would in Creation.

[golentan]

Well, not quite. The tainted exaltations do seek out demons first as part of their life cycle even when severed from Lillun and the Yozis, and torment is evidently intrinsic, so that remains the same. But it does take the infernals off the leash, and as has been pointed out A) some first circle demons are rather sweet, and B) the Ultimate Act of Villainy™ involves sparing the lives of people trying to kill you so you can invite them to your wedding. Everyone say it with me: Awww....

I.E. they're probably not likely to be much worse than solars at that point.

[DragonSinged]

@TheCountAlucard - Ah, I see. I suppose that makes sense.

@Mr.Bookworm - Thank you for the feedback. I wasn't really trying to stat her out as a heroic mortal first, just a couple of points of what she was like before Exaltation to give me a better feel for the character, what her personality would be like after Exaltation, and how to play her.
I haven't really thought of a specific moment that would have brought about her Exaltation yet. If I do decide to go ahead with Sorcery, maybe it will be when she attempted her first attempt at casting a spell, without having had anyone train her previously?
If not, then I'm not certain, and will have to put some more thought into it.

@Tavar - I have access to The White & Black Treaties, and have taken a bit of a glance through the White side, so that's not an issue, at least.


One thing I am a bit concerned with is, as this is my first character and all, I'm not certain how well she'll hold up in the party if someone else decides to roll up, say, some burly Dawn Caste warrior type. I was sort of thinking of her not really lugging around a sword or anything, and I'm not entirely certain on how the Exalted Martial arts work yet, either, not to mention I don't know if I'll have points to spare to spend on Martial arts or whatever, so I'm not really sure what to do with her for when Combat rears it's oh-so-pretty head.

[horngeek]

Putting that girl out of her misery is probably the single act with the highest chance of bringing peace to Creation, as it would release 50 Exaltations with no Great Curse, no Torment (no demon host = no Unwoven Coadjutor = no Urge and noone to inflict Torment), and access to the Charms of five of the most powerful beings in existance to do what they would in Creation.

I think this is actually wrong. The Broken-Winged Crane states in a Charm description that the Urge is a function of the Exaltation.

The Charm in question alters the Urge to be identical to Motivation.

[Cyborg Mage]

I dunno if you should focus too much on what Autochthon becomes. Take a look at the Neverborn. They really don't have too much impact on the world directly, and they have to work through the Deathlords and the Abyssals to get things done. It would probably be better to focus on who would be working for Autochthon after he dies.

Remember, Autochton is a world unto himself. People live on him. Campaigns take place on him. Stuff happens on him. I wouldn't assume he automatically floats into the Labrynth to join his siblings. I think he would basically become his own version of the Underworld. Also, do we know if Neverborn still work through a soul hierachy system?

[Yuki Akuma]

Putting that girl out of her misery is probably the single act with the highest chance of bringing peace to Creation, as it would release 50 Exaltations with no Great Curse, no Torment (no demon host = no Unwoven Coadjutor = no Urge and noone to inflict Torment), and access to the Charms of five of the most powerful beings in existance to do what they would in Creation.

This isn't true. Torment is a function of the Exaltation itself, and the Exaltations don't work without a first-circle demon. You need high-level Heretical charms to get rid of the Unwoven Coadjutor and even when you ascend to Titanhood you still have Torment.

Also, Green Sun Princes have access to more than five charm sets, and can learn the charms of any Yozi or Primordial willing to teach them.

Remember, Autochton is a world unto himself. People live on him. Campaigns take place on him. Stuff happens on him. I wouldn't assume he automatically floats into the Labrynth to join his siblings. I think he would basically become his own version of the Underworld. Also, do we know if Neverborn still work through a soul hierachy system?

All Primordials are worlds unto themselves - Autochthon isn't anything special in this regard. He'd become a Neverborn just like his siblings.

[Kyeudo]

This isn't true. Torment is a function of the Exaltation itself, and the Exaltations don't work without a first-circle demon. You need high-level Heretical charms to get rid of the Unwoven Coadjutor and even when you ascend to Titanhood you still have Torment.

This oddly contradicts the fluff, which says the Exaltation's host-seeking mechanism is still intact (it's what guides the host demon to the prospective Infernal) and that the Urge and Torment is managed by the Unwoven Coadjutor.

Also, Green Sun Princes have access to more than five charm sets, and can learn the charms of any Yozi or Primordial willing to teach them.

I forgot that Kimbery (and Szoreny?) has thrown her Charms in as well, but once you have a rogue Infernal I doubt he'll be getting any new Yozis to teach him Charms.