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  1. - Top - End - #1441
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    See, sometimes understanding leads to acceptance.

    Sometimes, however, it makes you realize how petty and insignificant, almost cute your previous "hate" was compared to the towering rage that understanding brings.
    Or maybe you just think you understand. We have a very one sided view. A smear campaign of sorts, by the writers of Exalted.
    For the next title, thinking of a reference to Second Edition or Essence 2
    .

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    I noticed a thread with no posts that should go here, so here's the only post in it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Errion N. View Post
    So there i was, minding my own business, when i came across this book. The broken winged crane supplement for infernal exalted.

    Infernal just got so much cooler.

    I'd like to get every ones thoughts on this, assuming that the 'rise of the scarlet empress' is a possible future rather than a certain one, how do you think this is likely to play out?

    Broken Winged Crane provides rules not only for making bigger badder high essence infernal exalted, but it provides rules for (when hitting essence 9, which to be fair is not likely in most games) becoming a primordial, not a broken primordial, not a yozi... but literally for infernal exalted to_become_primordials in all their glory. immortality and everything.

    Now, looking at the entire world, it seems to me infernals get teh shortest end of the stick when starting out (every one wants them dead, solars, most abyssals, all teh sidereals, gods, realm, every one)

    but what kind of price is that to pay for the chance to become a true Primordial?

    Any way, what are the potential ramifications of this? i mean, it wont have an effect on the immediate future of the cosmology of exalted... but...

    I just can't shake the image of 200 years after the events of 'rise of the scarlet empress' some infernal exalted standing up, telling the Ebon dragon he wont 'take this s**t no more' and proceeding to lay down a cosmic smackdown.

    discuss:
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    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokasti View Post
    For the next title, thinking of a reference to Second Edition or Essence 2.
    But I already made a suggestion. And it was a suggestion by me. That makes it the best suggestion.

    ...

    Solipsistic Rejection of Impossibilities RAAAAAAGE

    (So, I've been doing so poking around with the official maps of Creation and...the distance between the Blessed Isle and the Threshold is really freaking huge. I never realized just how mystical "The Blessed Isle" should seem to mortals outside of it. A Dynast showing up in the threshold would be like Native Americans just randomly showing up in Europe in the ~1500s. Like "Yeah, you've probably heard of us; what's up?")

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Green Sun Princes don't become Primordials...not really, not ultimately. They never get the kilomote of Essence, they never get a Fetich...but they also never give up their Exaltations. And technically, they get their Charms and Excellency and Immortality at Essence 6, which is much easier for an Infernal to achieve in normal play given Ascendancy Mantle of (Yozi).

    Also, there are two faulty assumptions at work here:

    Assumption 1: Being a Primordial is better than being an Exalt. False. Patently. Exalted and Primordial Charms exist on the same tier, but any given Exalt has a much broader conceptual playground in which their Charms may operate. In exchange, a Primordial has deeper reserves of motes to draw upon...but they also bear the brunt of their Lesser and Greater Imperfections more keenly, because they can never reach outside of themselves. The Ebon Dragon will never not be weak to Holy. Never. Not without changing who he is (Fetich death) or eliminating Holy as a possible opposition (also not possible, as we now know, while any uncorrupted Solar shards remain in play, along with the Aidenweiss). Bob the Fiend, however, can get a Holy smack in the face, learn his lesson, and also take other Yozi perfects that bridge this hole in the Ebon Dragon's magic.

    Assumption 2: The Green Sun Princes are the only ones who become titans. False, but on shakier ground than the above. Solars are long rumored to have paths to becoming Primordials--especially notable because a Solar in freelancer Nephial's infamous 8-year game underwent Primordial apotheosis. At the same time, one can see the beginnings of this in Queen k'Tula. Abyssals have -always- been said to transcend, becoming something worse than the Neverborn. Green Sun Princes are not alone in transcendence. Merely the ones for whom it is the most attractive option.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by GryffonDurime View Post
    Abyssals have -always- been said to transcend, becoming something worse than the Neverborn.
    See, I tried to point this out, but The Rose Dragon didn't believe me. Where is the citation for this? I can't find it.

    Also, why is your avatar all Christmas-y?

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    See, I tried to point this out, but The Rose Dragon didn't believe me. Where is the citation for this? I can't find it.

    Also, why is your avatar all Christmas-y?
    First question: I'll look.

    Second question: unmitigated laziness.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    What GSPs become is, however, better than being a GSP.

    Or, in some ways, being a Solar.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Exalted Discussion II: This Thread Cost Us Build Points?
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Says who GSPs don't get the kilomote of essence and the like, and do lose their exaltation. They get to design their own charm trees based off of those of the yozis. To my mind, that explicitly includes (green sun prince) Cosmic Principle, which covers the previous comments.

    The best part, as long as he doesn't learn/develop (green sun prince) Pantheon Unfurling, he never has to cope with the difficulties inherent in Fetich souls, and as long as they don't do (green sun prince) Glory Incarnate they still maintain the flexibility to act outside the purview of their excellency.

    This is why GSPs are Primordial 2.0. They get so many of the benefits, none of the drawbacks they don't choose to inflict on themselves, and having truly ascended (when and if they so choose), they get to give birth to another little baby primordial.
    My motto: Repensum Est Canicula.

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    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Exalted Discussion II: This Thread Cost Us Build Points?
    Thread 3 should be 'Cheaper with experience points'
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    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Heh, I don't play Exalted, though it does sound interesting, but reading the tropes page is like reading what would happen if all the Mary Sues in the universe got together in one world. It's so . . .saturated, like chocolate fudge syrup verses tea with sugar, like a bright florescent orange and yellow reflective vest verses faded blue jeans
    It . . . sparkles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    And you'd think they interfered...
    They don't. IT'S SO MUCH AWESOME.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    (So, I've been doing so poking around with the official maps of Creation and...the distance between the Blessed Isle and the Threshold is really freaking huge.

    I never realized just how mystical "The Blessed Isle" should seem to mortals outside of it. A Dynast showing up in the threshold would be like Native Americans just randomly showing up in Europe in the ~1500s. Like "Yeah, you've probably heard of us; what's up?")
    I think you're pulling a common mistake of the sci-fi/fantasy writer/reader, and not looking at the scale involved.

    The mainland Blessed Isle is roughly 1.4 times the size of Australia (so about 4125000 square miles). The Threshold itself is so big that I'm not even going to try to figure that one out, but it's big. I believe that the part shown on the map encompasses more land then there is on Earth.

    The Inland Sea, by comparison, is a measly 400-800 miles in most places. The distance from the east coast of the US to the UK is over 3000 miles. Crossing the Inland Sea is actually fairly trivial.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    To my mind, that explicitly includes (green sun prince) Cosmic Principle, which covers the previous comments.
    Actually, they are explicitly incapable of taking [Dude] Cosmic Principle. Not that you'd want to, I think. Essence 10 for a Devil Tiger is fertile ground. Primordials can't make more charms for themselves. So, lets say the Ebon Dragon has, hypothetically, 20 Essence 10 super-charms. You can have 50, given enough time. Or a hundred. Or however many you feel like getting. And I imagine you can make enough that it starts to look better than gaining a 1000 mote pool coupled with all the downsides. (Maybe at Essence 10, a Devil-Tiger can finally make Immanent Infernal Glory /jealous)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    It . . . sparkles.
    The Abyssals do, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm View Post
    I think you're pulling a common mistake of the sci-fi/fantasy writer/reader, and not looking at the scale involved.
    Actually, now that you point this out, I think I was just under the mistaken impression that the US and Europe were a bit closer than they actually are. My bad.
    Last edited by Xefas; 2011-01-18 at 06:49 PM.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    And you'd think they interfered...
    They don't. IT'S SO MUCH AWESOME.
    ya, it only proves that awesomeness only causes more awesome to grow, rather than awesome being self-interfering. It means the awesomeness is in some way cooperative, since for you to be awesome enough to defeat something,then that something must logically be almost as awesome in the first place in order for you to need to be awesome enough to defeat them.

    however, it seems that sueness cancels each other out, mary sues seem only to be mary sues when there are no other sues around, meaning mary sueness can only exist within a vacuum.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    The Abyssals do, anyway.
    Abyssals are the only Exalts that don't sparkle, having anima banners of darkness so dark it makes other things brighten in comparison.
    I use black for sarcasm.


    Call me Rose, or The Rose Dragon. Rose Dragon is someone else entirely.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    Actually, they are explicitly incapable of taking [Dude] Cosmic Principle. Not that you'd want to, I think. Essence 10 for a Devil Tiger is fertile ground. Primordials can't make more charms for themselves. So, lets say the Ebon Dragon has, hypothetically, 20 Essence 10 super-charms. You can have 50, given enough time. Or a hundred. Or however many you feel like getting. And I imagine you can make enough that it starts to look better than gaining a 1000 mote pool coupled with all the downsides. (Maybe at Essence 10, a Devil-Tiger can finally make Immanent Infernal Glory /jealous)
    This. Albeit with the caveat that Yozi -can- make new Charms for themselves. They just already made every Charm that they can conceive of making. Thus, Green Sun Princes are a powerful ally because they can create a new Ebon Dragon Charm that, because of his limited mentality, he could never think up on his own. The advantage isn't that there's some arbitrary limit on the number of Charms that a Yozi can have. The advantage is that the Green Sun Prince gets HIS Charms, and the Charms of at least six other Yozi.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm View Post
    The mainland Blessed Isle is roughly 1.4 times the size of Australia (so about 4125000 square miles). The Threshold itself is so big that I'm not even going to try to figure that one out, but it's big. I believe that the part shown on the map encompasses more land then there is on Earth.
    The area shown on the map is about the same area as the Earth. Of course, the Earth has much more water on it so Creation has much more land area. On the other hand, the Earth doesn't have any Shadowlands or Wyld zones so it kinda balances
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    Actually, they are explicitly incapable of taking [Dude] Cosmic Principle. Not that you'd want to, I think. Essence 10 for a Devil Tiger is fertile ground. Primordials can't make more charms for themselves. So, lets say the Ebon Dragon has, hypothetically, 20 Essence 10 super-charms. You can have 50, given enough time. Or a hundred. Or however many you feel like getting. And I imagine you can make enough that it starts to look better than gaining a 1000 mote pool coupled with all the downsides. (Maybe at Essence 10, a Devil-Tiger can finally make Immanent Infernal Glory /jealous).
    I read that as "You can never take someone ELSE'S Cosmic Principle."

    And point to you, sir. Though I'm still pretty sure the option is there for folks who want to experiment with new varieties of primordials.
    My motto: Repensum Est Canicula.

    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Nothing is stopping the Devil Tiger from making a hundred different ten mote essence pool charms.

    >.>

    Quote Originally Posted by a_humble_lich View Post
    The area shown on the map is about the same area as the Earth. Of course, the Earth has much more water on it so Creation has much more land area. On the other hand, the Earth doesn't have any Shadowlands or Wyld zones so it kinda balances
    On the other other hand, Creation is bigger the map. Especially if you go into the Elemental Poles, which just keep going...

    Also, you can dig down in Creation and never reach the bottom.
    Last edited by Yuki Akuma; 2011-01-18 at 06:57 PM.
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    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    Though I'm still pretty sure the option is there for folks who want to experiment with new varieties of primordials.
    Oh, the option is there. You just have to die first.

    I saved this quote from the first Broken Winged Crane thread on the Exalted forum in a text file for just such an occasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holden
    Yep.

    Well, actually, there's a way to finish your Yozi transformation but it's a bit extreme. Requires fetich death.

    Trouble is, you are your fetich. So. You die. Pass on your shard. Your inheritor gets the shard and starts buying up Bob Charms. Then he runs out of stuff to buy-- he has everything Bob invented. He doesn't go Heretical. Starts making new Bob Charms. Eventually, he shoves his way clear up to Bob Cosmic Principle.

    Yozi Bob has finally been incarnated into the universe! Through someone else!

    How Yozi-like.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    Nothing is stopping the Devil Tiger from making a hundred different ten mote essence pool charms.

    >.>
    In the same way that there is no rule against a Solar making a Permanent Charm that lets him learn Lunar, Sidereal, Infernal, and Abyssal charms without a tutor for 2 XP a piece. Or a rule against creating a Charm that lets an Infernal pay 1m to ignore any downsides of any Primordial Charm. These are words you can string together, and there is no rule against bad Charm design...only the fact that it remains bad Charm design.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by a_humble_lich View Post
    The area shown on the map is about the same area as the Earth. Of course, the Earth has much more water on it so Creation has much more land area. On the other hand, the Earth doesn't have any Shadowlands or Wyld zones so it kinda balances
    The full map I have I calculate at just under 2.25 billion square kilometers, or a little more than four times the size of earth. Though I think it might be first age and so has shrunk a bit.

    Though autocthonia is the one that gets truly ridiculous, given that it's circumference is 3 times earth IIRC and measures inhabitable space in cubic.

    edit: Nope. Second age is 4 times as large as earth.
    Last edited by golentan; 2011-01-18 at 07:08 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    Nothing is stopping the Devil Tiger from making a hundred different ten mote essence pool charms.

    >.>
    Other than the sidebar that says you can only learn (Essence) number of them, no.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Actually...wait; this revealed an interesting point to me.

    Why are there +10 mote charms in the Yozi trees anyway? They have a charm that says "You have 1000 motes; no more, no less". Why do they all also have a charm that says "You have +10 motes"? 'How can they have that charm?', I suppose, would also be a valid question.

    The same problem arises with Ascendancy Mantle, but I've always thought that worked better as a Heretical Charm anyway. In fact, wouldn't it make a bit more sense to get rid of all the mote expanders, and just have a Heretical (take this Essence times) mote expander ala Immanent Infernal Glory?

    Stuff like Skyfire Seizing Repast and Temple Self Apotheosis would make good potential prerequisites.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    Actually...wait; this revealed an interesting point to me.

    Why are there +10 mote charms in the Yozi trees anyway? They have a charm that says "You have 1000 motes; no more, no less". Why do they all also have a charm that says "You have +10 motes"? 'How can they have that charm?', I suppose, would also be a valid question.

    The same problem arises with Ascendancy Mantle, but I've always thought that worked better as a Heretical Charm anyway. In fact, wouldn't it make a bit more sense to get rid of all the mote expanders, and just have a Heretical (take this Essence times) mote expander ala Immanent Infernal Glory?

    Stuff like Skyfire Seizing Repast and Temple Self Apotheosis would make good potential prerequisites.
    It's because Yozi did not come into existence with all their Charms already learned.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by GryffonDurime View Post
    It's because Yozi did not come into existence with all their Charms already learned.
    Wouldn't they have had to come into existence, as Primordials, with the Essence 10 charm that says "I am a Primordial", though? Which, coincidentally, also invalidates the existence of their mote expander and essence hopper?

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon View Post
    Abyssals are the only Exalts that don't sparkle, having anima banners of darkness so dark it makes other things brighten in comparison.
    The other Exalts glow, not sparkle... Except Sidereal eyes.
    Last edited by Kris Strife; 2011-01-18 at 07:35 PM.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    ya, it only proves that awesomeness only causes more awesome to grow, rather than awesome being self-interfering. It means the awesomeness is in some way cooperative, since for you to be awesome enough to defeat something,then that something must logically be almost as awesome in the first place in order for you to need to be awesome enough to defeat them.

    however, it seems that sueness cancels each other out, mary sues seem only to be mary sues when there are no other sues around, meaning mary sueness can only exist within a vacuum.
    There's nothing wrong with being a special unique snowflake if you're in the middle of a blizzard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Book of Erotic Fantasy
    Love Life of an Ooze: One ooze. Idiot hits ooze. Two oozes.
    If you use a blood-based McGuffin in a campaign with a vampire PC, plan for what will happen when said PC sticks it in his mouth.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course

    Quote Originally Posted by GryffonDurime View Post
    In exchange, a Primordial has deeper reserves of motes to draw upon...but they also bear the brunt of their Lesser and Greater Imperfections more keenly, because they can never reach outside of themselves. The Ebon Dragon will never not be weak to Holy. Never. Not without changing who he is (Fetich death) or eliminating Holy as a possible opposition (also not possible, as we now know, while any uncorrupted Solar shards remain in play, along with the Aidenweiss).
    Not quite. To quote Return of the Scarlet Empress,
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    "As it was the judgment of the Most High that determined who is a creature of darkness, the Sunís death removes this designation from existence and makes Holy Charms largely useless. The Ebon Dragon laughs as his imperfection closes. Nothing can kill him now."
    Last edited by SurlySeraph; 2011-01-18 at 07:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

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