General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course.

[Britter]

A question for those of you with more experience. I own the core book for Exalted 2e, but I don't know where to go next. Any recomendations for worthwhile books to add to my collection?

[The Rose Dragon]

Get the Abyssals book. Not only are Abyssals awesome, but the book also has several new Solar Charms.

Then get the first three Books of Sorcery.

[Neon Knight]

Get what you're interested in. If you're interested in Terrestrials, get the Dragon Blooded Manual. Interested in Sidereals? Lunars? Alchemicals? Get those books. Etc.

If you're interested in Sorcery/Necromancy, get the White and Black Treatises. If you're interested in a certain environment, you can get the corresponding direction from the Terrestrial or Celestial Compass series.

Wonders of the Lost Age and Oadenol's Codex contain lots of neat artifacts and stuff, and Oadenol's Codex has lots of other useful stuff on manses, thaumaturgy, and the like.

Scroll of the Monk is less useful. It has lots of martial arts styles, but most of them are rather non-functional.

The Glories of the Most High Series covers the Celestial Incarnae, and adds charms for the Exalt types associated with the relevant deities, as well as martial arts and artifacts and the like. Some good stuff.

The Scroll of Heroes covers heroic mortals. I don't find it too useful; a lot o the content is iffy. It does cover God-Bloods, Half-Castes, and the like, though, so it is good to have.

The Rolls of Glorious Divinity covers Gods, Ghosts, Demons, and Elementals. Nifty to have.

The Scroll of Fallen Races is actually one of my favorite books. It covers The Dragon Kings and The Mountianfolk, races created by the Primordials before the Primordial War. They're unique and fun, being very different from how the rest of Creation works. I really dig them.

Likewise, Graceful Wicked Masques is cool because you get an indepth look at the Fair Folk. Unfortunately, the mechanics of the book might be getting some hefty errata soon, so unless you really, really like the Fair Folk you might want to hold off on this one for a bit.

[Xefas]

A question for those of you with more experience. I own the core book for Exalted 2e, but I don't know where to go next. Any recomendations for worthwhile books to add to my collection?

Depends largely on what it is you want.

For instance, if you plan on being a Storyteller and have a lot of trouble improvising locations and cultures, or if you just like to read cultural fluff, get one of the Compass of Terrestrial Directions. They take a section of Creation and just detail all the stuff in it with little-to-no mechanics involved.

If you like the idea of playing a Heroic Mortal, either because you want to play both sides of the Exaltation, and see who Clark Kent was before he was Superman-But-With-Solar-Circle-Sorcery, or because you just like the idea of Heroic Mortals, then the Scroll of Heroes is for you. (It also has a flaw/merit system that is marginally less terrible than D&D's!)

If you want a different Exalt type in your games, then the obvious choice is the Manual of Exalted Power for whichever Exalt you want: Infernal, Abyssal, Lunar, Dragonblooded, Alchemical, or...possibly Sidereal. Be warned the Sidereal book is kind of wonky. There are a few charms that are "oh dear god, you get this at Essence 4, but this effect would be stupidly broken powerful at Essence 10", but most of the charms fall into the category of "wow, that's stupidly pathetic", or "there's no indication of how this really functions in the context of the Exalted rules (mostly the mental influence charms that give no indication of how to resist them, and horridly mislabeled charms)".

I wait with bated breath for the official reworking of the Sidereals, as they jockey with Infernals for #1 place in my heart.

The Books of Sorcery are nice. Wonders of the Lost Age is just a fat pile of Artifacts (including Warstriders!), with maaaaybe a Crafting charm or two wedged in there? I forget. Useful, but not the first book I'd get. The Black/White Treatise is all about the Sorcery/Necromancy respectively. Useful if you want to play a Sorcerer, not so much otherwise. Oadenol's Codex is all about crafting and manses...and crafting manses. If you feel like crafting or living in a swanky manse, this is for you. The other two Books of Sorcery are only good for Storytellers who want big gobs of Demons/Spirits to use in their games.

Glories of the Most High (UC, Luna, Maidens) have some nice charms and a few artifacts in them if all you want is some new charms and a few artifacts. The Unconquered Sun has the Glory to the Super Saiyan charm for Solars, which I've yet to actually use in a game, but am itching to try.

Aaaaand, that's about it. Except for The Compass of Celestial Directions series, but I'd suggest the Terrestrial ones first, if you bother with any compasses at all.

EDIT: Aaaaaand, ....ninja'd

[Britter]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the advice. It is always nice to be told what works, what might be broken, and what simply doesn't work before one buys the relevant books. I feel equipped to make some infrormed choices now.

[SurlySeraph]

Scroll of the Monk is less useful. It has lots of martial arts styles, but most of them are rather non-functional.

Isn't it the only easy way to get scene-length perfect defenses, though? Or is the overpoweredness what's non-functional about them?

[The Rose Dragon]

Isn't it the only easy way to get scene-length perfect defenses, though? Or is the overpoweredness what's non-functional about them?

Scene-length perfect defenses are basically UNLIMITED POWER where you can do anything and no one can touch you. As such, they should not exist.

[Neon Knight]

Isn't it the only easy way to get scene-length perfect defenses, though? Or is the overpoweredness what's non-functional about them?

Martial Arts in the Scroll of the Monk tend to simply be poorly written and not even properly functioning. When they're not, they tend to be broken the other way. Scene length perfect defenses, like The Rose Dragon chimed in, are generally a bad idea period, from a balance standpoint.

The Terrestrial Martial Arts tend to be merely okay. The Celestial Martial Arts tend to be broken in the non-functional way. Sidereal Martial Arts tend to be broken in the broken way.

[Xefas]

I got another question for anyone in the know gracious enough to fill me with their enlightenment.

So, sorcery. You get spells. It has three levels, each requiring a different initiation charm, with the prerequisite of each initiation charm being the initiation charm that proceeds it.

That means, if I understand this correctly (and this is where I'm fuzzy):

If I take the Terrestrial Circle Sorcery charm, and I have Occult 4 and Essence 4, I can then take the Celestial Circle Sorcery charm even if I don't actually know any Terrestrial Circle spells? And then, if I have Occult 5 and Essence 5, I can buy the Solar Circle Sorcery charm even if I don't actually know any Terrestrial or Celestial Circle spells?

And, if I were then to, say, buy all three of the Solar Circle spells that exist with 24 starting XP, I could do so without actually knowing any spells of the Terrestrial or Celestial persuasion? Like, I could summon a Third Circle Demon while being completely oblivious to the knowledge required to summon a First Circle Demon?

Is this right or am I missing a paragraph somewhere?

[The Rose Dragon]

Yes, you can have spells of a given circle without knowing spells of a lower circle. No, that's not necessarily a good idea.

Also, there are more than three Solar Circle spells. Just the basics would be Adamant Countermagic, Adamant Circle Banishment and Demon of the Third Circle. If you want to destroy huge regions, there are also Rain of Doom and Total Annihilation. If you want to restore huge regions, you have Benediction of Archgenesis and Light of Solar Cleansing.

[Xefas]

Yes, you can have spells of a given circle without knowing spells of a lower circle. No, that's not necessarily a good idea.

I realize there's a downside. I was just wondering if it was possible. Thank you for the clarification.

Also, there are more than three Solar Circle spells. Just the basics would be Adamant Countermagic, Adamant Circle Banishment and Demon of the Third Circle. If you want to destroy huge regions, there are also Rain of Doom and Total Annihilation. If you want to restore huge regions, you have Benediction of Archgenesis and Light of Solar Cleansing.

I was just talking about the three in the core book, I realize that setting-wise and supplementary-book-wise, there are far more.

[Rhyvurg]

{table=head]Name|ST?|Player?|#1Exalt|#2Exalt|#3Exalt|Type of Game
Rhyvurg|Someday maybe|Yes|Alchemical|Solar|Terrestrial|Anything, really[/table]

[aetherialDawn]

{table=head]Name|ST?|Player?|#1Exalt|#2Exalt|#3Exalt|Type of Game
aetherialDawn|Not Right Now|Yes|Lunar/Alchemical|Solar|Terrestrial|Any[/table]

[Erith]

{table=head]Name|ST?|Player?|#1Exalt|#2Exalt|#3Exalt|Type of Game
erith|no|Yes|Lunar|Alchemical|Solar|Any[/table]

[Ganurath]

Likewise, Graceful Wicked Masques is cool because you get an indepth look at the Fair Folk. Unfortunately, the mechanics of the book might be getting some hefty errata soon, so unless you really, really like the Fair Folk you might want to hold off on this one for a bit.

I keep hearing this rumor of errata, and it's making me skittish. Is this something that's definitely happening, or just something that people talk about like Sidereal errata?

[The Rose Dragon]

I keep hearing this rumor of errata, and it's making me skittish. Is this something that's definitely happening, or just something that people talk about like Sidereal errata?

Both Sidereal errata and GWM errata are things that are really, definitely happening. We just don't quite know when. We (as Exalted players) believe that the latter will come out before Broken-Winged Crane, but that's about all we know.

[Kyeudo]

I keep hearing this rumor of errata, and it's making me skittish. Is this something that's definitely happening, or just something that people talk about like Sidereal errata?

Holden has stated he is a week or less from finishing the Errata for Graceful Wicked Masks and then will start in on the Sidereals book.

[The Rose Dragon]

Hey, here's an idea! Let's post fights and other scenes that are reminiscent of Exalted!

I'll start with this video posted in another thread earlier. It's like a fight between a Dawn Caste and a Terrestrial soldier (possibly a Fire Aspect), who only use Excellencies and other non-obvious Charms, but the power disparity is clear.

[Toptomcat]

Looked more like 'stubborn-ass heroic mortal pisses off Dragonblooded-tier Exalt' to me, really.

[tonberrian]

I really like this fight - Terrestrial vs. Alchemical? Good stuff.

[The Rose Dragon]

Looked more like 'stubborn-ass heroic mortal pisses off Dragonblooded-tier Exalt' to me, really.

No, the mortals are the guards that die at the very beginning.

[golentan]

Here's a couple. I'd be inclined to put Margery Daw as a no moon lunar for obvious reasons. The Tomougara would be infernals,and Rinne demons. Yuji and other mystes would be ghosts (though he's got to be abnormally high essence towards the end. The guy he's beating on is really, really weak, but still...). Wilhelmina's probably a Chosen of Endings with a martial art style that's a combination of Dreaming Pearl Courtesan and something else. Shana, despite the fire motif, I'd prolly peg as a solar just for sheer epic scale and her frequent use of what have to be celestial level powers.

[Xefas]

This video at 2:28 is probably the closest approximation of Exalted-level combat I've ever seen in vidja game form.

Spoiler

Show

It's Skateboarding-Old-Testament-God-With-a-Shotgun vs. Cthulhu

That's like Essence 7 celestial spirit vs Essence 6 second circle demon right there.

[The Rose Dragon]

This video at 2:28 is probably the closest approximation of Exalted-level combat I've ever seen in vidja game form.

Spoiler

Show

It's Skateboarding-Old-Testament-God-With-a-Shotgun vs. Cthulhu

That's like Essence 7 celestial spirit vs Essence 6 second circle demon right there.

And about as interesting to watch as high-level Exalted combat, as well. Only no one used their perfects, so they both died quickly.

[Jokasti]

{table=head]Name|ST?|Player?|#1Exalt|#2Exalt|#3Exalt|Type of Game
Jokasti|Yes|Yes|Alchemical|Lunar|Solar|Anything.
Kyeudo|Yes|Yes|Alchemical|Infernal|Solar|Sandbox.
Neon Knight|Yes|Yes|DB|Lunar|Solar|!=kingdom building
Reynard|Yes|Yes|Solar|DB|Lunar|Anything
Lord Raziere|No|Yes|Abyssal|Sidereal|Lunar|Anything
Britter|No|Yes|Solar|||Anything
Yuki_Akuma|Maybe/No|Yes|Sidereal|Infernal|Lunar|Anything really
The Rose Dragon|Maybe|Yes|Abyssal|Solar|Infernal|Threshold sandbox
Sanguine|Maybe|Yes|Infernal|Alchemical|DB|Anything
Ganurath|Yes/Maybe|Yes|Fae|DB|Infernal|Mixed Group
Drascin|Maybe|Yes|Alchemical|DB/Lunar|!=Abyssal|Story-driven
Raz_Fox|Maybe|Yes|Lunar|Solar|Sidereal|Character-Driven
Xefas|Maybe|Yes|Infernal|Sidereal|Solar|Sandbox
Rhyvurg|Maybe|Yes|Alchemical|Solar|DB|Anything
aetherialDawn|No|Yes|Lunar/Alchemical|Solar|DB|Any
erith|No|Yes|Lunar|Alchemical|Solar|Any
a_humble_lich|Maybe|Yes|Lunar|Solar|DB|Any[/table]

[Xefas]

And about as interesting to watch as high-level Exalted combat, as well. Only no one used their perfects, so they both died quickly.

Yeah, the combat system is definitely not what drew me into Exalted. Actually, it was pretty much everything except the combat. 10 step resolution? For every attack? I can't be the only one who finds that ludicrous game design. Not necessarily bad game design, depending on what the game is attempting to execute, but ludicrous, I think, is an accurate term for it.

Still, more on topic, if someone can find a good quality video of several of God of War's boss fights, they'd serve rather well. I think Kratos makes a damn good approximation of a Solar, especially since that Scar-Writ-Saga-Shield-In-Disguise-But-For-Solars charm came out. He's everything I expect a Dawn Caste to be. He doesn't do anything fancy like rewrite fate, or turn into a giant hermaphrodite bear that shoots cones of lightning-bears that explode into bone-shrapnel grenades, or turn his arms into fire, or telekinetically decapitate you with your own genitalia - he just runs at whatever obstacle is in front of him, be it a physical obstacle, a mental obstacle, or a social obstacle, and then proceeds to punch it over and over again until it stops being an obstacle.

[The Rose Dragon]

Something like this?

[Xefas]

Something like this?

Oh ****! I don't have a PS3, so I never got to play God of War 3. I may have to go find a Lets Play or something. Broseidon looks pissed. Pissed in an epic way.

[Locnil]

{table=head]Name|ST?|Player?|#1Exalt|#2Exalt|#3Exalt|Type of Game
Locnil|Not Yet|Yes|Solar|Sidereal|Terrestrial|Any[/table]
I'm new to Exalted, never played any games except for a couple of short ones (other players lost interest). Still, I would like to try a Pbp game sometime soon.

[Kyeudo]

Yeah, the combat system is definitely not what drew me into Exalted. Actually, it was pretty much everything except the combat. 10 step resolution? For every attack? I can't be the only one who finds that ludicrous game design. Not necessarily bad game design, depending on what the game is attempting to execute, but ludicrous, I think, is an accurate term for it.

It's not actually that bad. The 10 steps just clarify who gets to reroll first, when you get to decide to activate your perfect defense, and what not. You don't usually have to bother with that. It ends up "roll attack, roll damage if you beat his DV". PbP usually simplifies it even further.