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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Whyte_Widow's Avatar

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    Default [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Starting a new Pathfinder game and was wondering what ideas for feats and character builds that some have thought of. Seeing as this is my first PF game... I am wanting to have a solid plan for the build. We have another fighter who is going to be more of a striker. I am making this paladin in the idea of a heavy tank-like melee monster. CORE BOOKS ONLY!

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Go small sized, that way you can get a medium mount which you can use indoors like dungeons and the like!

    Charging on a steed in a dungeon = DM 0.o
    Quote Originally Posted by Esser-Z View Post
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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    i had thought about this. i believe i may honestly go half orc. human or gnome was my second choice.

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whyte_Widow View Post
    i had thought about this. i believe i may honestly go half orc. human or gnome was my second choice.
    Kobold, the answer is always Kobold ^.^ Will also throw people off when they realize that little knight in shining arm is a little lizard thing.
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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    no kobolds in Pathfinder Core books.

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whyte_Widow View Post
    no kobolds in Pathfinder Core books.
    Im pretty sure they are in the core bestiary 0.o

    http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/mon...ails/-k/kobold

    The SRD says they are in the core?
    Quote Originally Posted by Esser-Z View Post
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    Whyte_Widow's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Quote Originally Posted by FelixG View Post
    Im pretty sure they are in the core bestiary 0.o

    http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/mon...ails/-k/kobold

    The SRD says they are in the core?
    Yeah but, not the playable PC races. Have to stick with the core PC races in the Core handbook.

    mainly i believe i would like idea for feats since many of the feats for PF are revised.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    If you're trying to tank, combat reflexes and stand still are part of PF core, so you could get a guisarme and spiked gauntlets and attempt to defend that way. Your divine bond ability can let you add the defending weapon enchantment to your weapon for a limited amount of time.

    In terms of ability score allocation, Con > Str > Cha > Dex > Int (13+) > Wis.

    Given that you're restricted to core and that this is PF, Toughness is not a terrible choice. Tower Shield Proficiency might also be interesting. You might eventually go into the Stalwart Defender prestige class.

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merk View Post
    If you're trying to tank, combat reflexes and stand still are part of PF core, so you could get a guisarme and spiked gauntlets and attempt to defend that way. Your divine bond ability can let you add the defending weapon enchantment to your weapon for a limited amount of time.

    In terms of ability score allocation, Con > Str > Cha > Dex > Int (13+) > Wis.

    Given that you're restricted to core and that this is PF, Toughness is not a terrible choice. Tower Shield Proficiency might also be interesting. You might eventually go into the Stalwart Defender prestige class.
    well, the fighter in the group is not wanting to tank... nor does he do a great job of it. With this build i want to show the group just how effective that Pathfinder has made the paladin. I believe that there is a good potential for the class with the changes. here my questions...

    weapon choice (1h, 2h, sword and board?) considering bastard sword and rapier combo or greatsword. possibly falchion. or even go nasty and go with a sythe for the 4x crit and trip.

    feats? was considering going down the crit route. possibly staggering into stunning crit. seems like it would be effective. also raising the threat level of my crits of course. seems power attack has lost some of its flavor in PF. so i may just stick to stacking critical addons and extra damage from the vital strike line.

    Defensive wouldnt be a bad bet seeing as i am going to be playing tank n such. however, the damage across the group isnt going to be rediculous. not to mention, with the healing abilities of a pali... and we have a healing cleric who is going to share my god... i would think that defense is covered. feel free do elaborate your opinions on this.

    Race. Considering going half-orc for flavor. human secondary and gnome a possibility for small mounts.

    any help is very appreciated.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    if you want to focus on the critical feats then i would suggest falcion (less damage than greatsword but more chance to crit) and take improved crit.

    vital strike is a trap feat-in the errata it says it only doubles the weapon damage not any other. Selective challening is always useful and you're playing a pally so you will have a high/decent charisma. Leadership may be useful as you do the sensible thing of choosing the weapon as the divine bond and pick up a mount via leadership.

    for tanking gnome would be best-that size bonus to ac may help-plus the mount thing.

    also possibly look at the APG-they may have some other options for feats, most are on the srd

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Don't bother with the mount. Go for the second Divine Bond option, and pump your sword full of enchantments to suit the battle!
    Take my love, take my land
    Take me where I cannot stand.
    I don't care, I'm still free,
    You can't take the sky from me.

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    Don't make me trot out Smite Moron!

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whyte_Widow View Post
    weapon choice (1h, 2h, sword and board?) considering bastard sword and rapier combo or greatsword. possibly falchion. or even go nasty and go with a sythe for the 4x crit and trip.

    feats? was considering going down the crit route. possibly staggering into stunning crit. seems like it would be effective. also raising the threat level of my crits of course. seems power attack has lost some of its flavor in PF. so i may just stick to stacking critical addons and extra damage from the vital strike line.
    You might already be familiar with this guide, but if you aren't, I suggest browsing through it. The TWF Sword & Board sounds like it might be of interest for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    If your going sword and board your best off with a dwarf using a dwarven battle axe; same stats as the bas sword, you get darkvision and other Dwarf additions, and you would have to spend your human feat anyway to get the bas sword proficiency. Also, the con bonus helps as a tank.

    If your going for Ultimate Striker, go with a Gnome or Halfling Paladin wielding a lance, riding a wardog. Wardogs are proficient with metal barding, and you can do tremendous damage on your charges. Smite Evil Charge with a lance is amazing.

    If you really want human with a two hander, I agree with the above. Use a falchion and make it keen as soon as possible. Your higher crit range from the falchion means you will be taking off heads like no ones buisness.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    The Palie in our group is causeing me fits to keep in check. This is the build.

    STR 18 DEX 15 CON 12 INT 12 Wis 12 Cha 16

    11th level Palidian of Iomedae, 1st level Holy Vidicator

    Feats
    Weapon Focus, Bastard Sword
    Weapon Focus, Rapier
    Improved Critical, Bastard Sword
    Improved Critical, Rapier
    Two-Weapon Fighting
    Two-Weapon Defence
    Power Attack
    Cleave

    And yes I know the build did not include the Bastard Sword as an exotic weapon. I've wielded bastard swords in real life, it's not easy but with that strength and dexterity. You don't need the feat. Still if you wish to keep it core you can drop one of the weapon focus and make it all legal. Even better just drop back to a Long Sword and rapier, it is the crits and the base damage that do the dead, not the size of the weapon.

    I'm sure a lot of people can rip this apart and say that it's horrible, but trust me, in play. It's working very nice.

    Her AC is kinda low because she wears just a Chain Shirt, I think it's +4 or something. But with the right magic items and a smite on, she can pump that up to over 30.

    She didn't take a mount as her Divine, took the buffing the sword tree. Now she can imbue her Rapier with speed and has 5 attacks a round.

    When smiting this palidian (if she hits with all attacks) does well over 100 points base damage per round, and almost always scores one crit per round on a full attack. That said, hitting can be a problem with the -4 for power attack and the -2 for two weapon fighting.

    If you want to turtle up, you can easly take a light shield, enchant the snot out of it, toss on the Plate and have a very high AC.

    If you keep the focus on the Bastard Sword you can also use it two handed for the extra Power attack damage.

    Add Improved Sunder for smashing things to bits.

    Critical Focus for critting goodness. Life is good my friends.

    Coarse if your ever forced to fight Plant life, Golems, or the knights that sit on the fence. Well life will kinda suck. At least you can hit really hard

    Again I'm sure their are far more optomised options out their, but for a 'friendly' game this is pretty awesome.
    Remember no matter where you go. There you are.

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grommen View Post
    The Palie in our group is causeing me fits to keep in check. This is the build.

    STR 18 DEX 15 CON 12 INT 12 Wis 12 Cha 16

    11th level Palidian of Iomedae, 1st level Holy Vidicator

    Feats
    Weapon Focus, Bastard Sword
    Weapon Focus, Rapier
    Improved Critical, Bastard Sword
    Improved Critical, Rapier
    Two-Weapon Fighting
    Two-Weapon Defence
    Power Attack
    Cleave

    And yes I know the build did not include the Bastard Sword as an exotic weapon. I've wielded bastard swords in real life, it's not easy but with that strength and dexterity. You don't need the feat. Still if you wish to keep it core you can drop one of the weapon focus and make it all legal. Even better just drop back to a Long Sword and rapier, it is the crits and the base damage that do the dead, not the size of the weapon.
    Without Exotic Proficiendy you can't use a Bastard sword 1 handed. So you can't TWF.

    No, you can't claim real life means =game. Player does not equal character.


    Back to Paladin:
    Weapon Bond I think is better than Mount.
    I suggest Sword/Board but TWFing.
    Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, (3) Improved Shield Bash, (5) Double Slice

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Without Exotic Proficiendy you can't use a Bastard sword 1 handed. So you can't TWF.

    No, you can't claim real life means =game. Player does not equal character.
    I think they may be the DM and this is a houserule.
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    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    You might already be familiar with this guide, but if you aren't, I suggest browsing through it. The TWF Sword & Board sounds like it might be of interest for you.
    this helped tremendously. and i thank you for this link. hadnt realized this was available. this has me considering two kukri or going the falchion route. possibly sword and board with the scimitar. then full on crit mastery going into stunning crit. seems solid.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    I think they may be the DM and this is a houserule.
    I is, and it is. Even clearly stated that, and if someone were offended by it how to resolve the issue. Even went as far as to explain that it is not the weapon it is the base damage. However still shouted down in the next post. O well. Just tried to explain the issue.

    So to make it all legal and stuff.

    Just drop the cleave, and take Exotic Weapon, Bastard sword. Problem solved.
    Remember no matter where you go. There you are.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    I played a pf fighter once, unfortunatly was new to it and didnt read the trip rules properly.

    as a tank choice, i think i'd go scythe power attack, wombat expertise and then the trip with lower level feats, then picking critical feats as i hit higher levels.
    thing about greater trip is that it gives everyone an AoO when the enemy goes down. makes everyone love you if they are in melee with said bbeg.

    if you have a cleric in the party, i'd ask him to buff your weapon. if he objects at using the spell slot, tell him you'll pay. the bonusses from greater magic weapon are pretty nice.

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grommen View Post
    So to make it all legal and stuff.

    Just drop the cleave, and take Exotic Weapon, Bastard sword. Problem solved.
    ...and then change "Rapier" to "Short Sword" or "Kukri", since the Rapier is not actually a light weapon and thus can't be used offhanded without grievous attack penalties. Finessable =/= light.

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malbordeus View Post
    as a tank choice, i think i'd go scythe power attack, wombat expertise and then the trip with lower level feats, then picking critical feats as i hit higher levels.
    Wombat Expertise and maxed Handle Animal sounds like a dangerous combination.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    alright i believe im going sword and board TWF. seeing as im going to be doing the tanking for the group. also gonna go human for the extra feat.

    have good rolls for initial stats. str, con, cha in that order?

    i have an 18, 16, and 15 for those three. which should i add the plus 2 to?

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Quote Originally Posted by FelixG View Post
    Kobold, the answer is always Kobold ^.^ Will also throw people off when they realize that little knight in shining arm is a little lizard thing.

    This is the most delightful idea I've read all day.
    Avatar by Qwernt

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Wombat Expertise and maxed Handle Animal sounds like a dangerous combination.
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    Remember Tunnel Seventeen!
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    If you don't get the reference, you need to read this.
    Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2010-10-20 at 03:49 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    So human, with TWF, imp. shield bash and double slice. scimitar and spiked shield.

    stats are without mods

    str 18
    dex 15
    con 14
    int 14
    wis 13
    cha 16

    where should i put my +2 for being human?

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    Default Re: [PF] Paladin Optimization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Wombat Expertise and maxed Handle Animal sounds like a dangerous combination.
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    Play a pixie paladin and make it your animal companion.

    Actually, that might even work in PF. High cha and huge dex, so you shoot people for 1 pt +40 smite evil damage with your tiny little bow.
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