Tainted by Undeath: The Deadborn [3.5 races, PEACH]

[Jarrick]

Oh, its a 2nd level spell. So wizards get it at 3rd, sorcs at 4th. Its not very useful on its own though. It's detailed in Libris Mortis.

[AugustNights]

Deadstock: Con Mod for casting sounds more along the lines for someone using their own body-mass for substitute arcane energies.

Cistic Ability Suggestions: +2 Con, -2 Dex. Though appearing sickly they are fortified by their cist like nature, however their bodies are often deformed and mangled.

Cistic Are gross. I love it.
Temp Hp is the way to go. Temp Hp is like healing, but better. You might specify if they stack, and if they do, to what point.

Currently with a constitution damage more or less at will, the answer is yes. They deserve at least LA +1. I don't if there is any precedent for that, but with all their abilities they're definitely looking that way. To avoid LA I'd say either lower con damage to 1 per round, or limit con damage per day. (A PrC could bump it back up as well as give this sucker some reach and maybe a second tentacle... )
and maybe, not allow other attacks while attached.
Standard action to maintain? Something akin to that.

Maybe some skill penalties for being disformed?

How do they climb?
Is it by use of Cist-like Body?
If so penalties to Social based skills are very much in line.

[Jarrick]

Deadstock: Con Mod for casting sounds more along the lines for someone using their own body-mass for substitute arcane energies.

True, but strength makes them feel more brutish... I dunno, Con does kind of fit better though. I'l decide later.

Cistic Ability Suggestions: +2 Con, -2 Dex. Though appearing sickly they are fortified by their cist like nature, however their bodies are often deformed and mangled.

Ah, this is an interesting choice. The Skulking Cyst gets a rather high dex itself, and the 8th level spell in the cyst line, Necrotic Empowerment, grants a bonus to dex as well, so I was thinking of them as wiry and unnaturally quick with reddish, stringy, sinewy bodies, +2 Dex, -2 Cha. But I think I like your idea better.

Cistic Are gross. I love it.



Temp Hp is the way to go. Temp Hp is like healing, but better. You might specify if they stack, and if they do, to what point.

Currently with a constitution damage more or less at will, the answer is yes. They deserve at least LA +1. I don't if there is any precedent for that, but with all their abilities they're definitely looking that way. To avoid LA I'd say either lower con damage to 1 per round, or limit con damage per day. (A PrC could bump it back up as well as give this sucker some reach and maybe a second tentacle... )
and maybe, not allow other attacks while attached.
Standard action to maintain? Something akin to that.

I'm thinking I'm just going to change it to dealing 1d4 damage and healing the Cystic the same amount. Temp HP can be fairly easily abused, since they usually dont stop until 2x the creature's normal HP.

Maybe some skill penalties for being disformed?

How do they climb?
Is it by use of Cist-like Body?
If so penalties to Social based skills are very much in line.

I hadnt put much thought into it. I just saw them climbing on walls and rocky ceilings like goblins in LotR. it just seemed to fit really. The penalty to social skills sounds like a good idea.

I'll try and post the slaymate sooner or later. I need a good name for them. Something clever, like "slaymate" is. I also cant decide how I want their origins. Necromancer parents who spent way too much time in the pale aura? Or enraged at the neglect that gave birth to them, they curse the irresponsible guardian's lineage to be a constant reminder of how they failed?

Edit: Cystic changes are up. Mostly.

[Jarrick]

The one everyone's been waiting for...

We're going to be bestest friends.
Slayborn are up

[LOTRfan]

I love it. The attachment ability is interesting, not too powerful. Slight Build, however, is like Powerful Build; LA +1.

Pale Aptitude makes them more specialized spellcasters without breaking them, so that's cool.

As more names..... Darn, its hard to top Slaymate....

[Jarrick]

You think I should just make them small, or remove the ability? I hate to give them a level adjustment...

Edit: As for the name, I was hoping to use something with Bairn which means child or baby and Cairn which means grave (Basically), but nothing comes to mind.

[LOTRfan]

Perhaps you should make them small. Maybe the curse stunts growth?

[Jarrick]

Perhaps you should make them small. Maybe the curse stunts growth?

Well, I almost did that, saying that they stop growing at around age 8, but that kind of rubbed me the wrong way... What if I altered the Sleight build a little so it doesnt grant all those bonuses?

[LOTRfan]

hmmm....

Pathetic Build (Ex): The physical stature of Slayborn lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category smaller.
Whenever a Slayborn is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check, the Slayborn is treated as one size smaller, whether it be advantageous or disadvantageous. This also grants the following benefits: a Slayborn gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks. Slayborn take a -4 penalty to grapple checks and a -2 penalty to all strength based checks.
A Slayborn must use weapons and armor designed for a creature one size smaller. However, his space remains the same and his reach changes to that of a creature one size smaller. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

Probably still on the low end of LA +1, but just an idea.

[Jarrick]

That's mechanically exactly almost the same as being small...

Meh, I think I'll just take the ability out and leave them a spindly medium. I'll reflect it in their height and weight when I get around to those.

Can you think of any good way to even out the ability with penalties?

[AugustNights]

I'm pretty certain Sleight Build is LA +1 if the creature is small. And even so. Kobolds have it as a balancing mechanic, and they are LA +0.

As it stands the Sleight Build of the Slaymate is perfect, a sort of 'forever child' aspect captured in a medium creature. Super creepy.

I vote for a profane bonus to stuff opposed to a moral bonus, many undead are immune to moral effects, but profane? Profane effects are great! Imagine a Paladin trying to shake one of these creatures because it doesn't want the profane bonuses?

Okay names for the creature: (a lot of these are terrible)
Deathchild
Necrami
Kinderslain
Slainkin
Slaykin
Moriborn
Death's Children/ Death's Child
The Neglected
Forlorn
Creepy Friend
Creepmate
Slayslough
Unslain
Everchild
Neverchild
Necrachild


Well those are really more of ideas than any solid suggestions.

I'd say they're balanced fine enough as is.
Might mention that other lowerings of Meta-magic don't stack to prevent Arcane Thesis Cheese.

[LOTRfan]

I vote Neverchild.

I just realized, there's only one race left after this.

[Jarrick]

I'm kind of attached to Neglected myself... Or (inspired by neverchild) Netherchild

I imagine the paladin would be trying to shake it anyways because they tend to make dead things move again, lol. I chose a morale bonus/penalty because I wanted it to represent them feeling comfortable and safe near their attached people. Is there any such thing as a profane morale bonus?

So sleight build isnt +1 LA?

Edit: The only reason there's only one race remaining is becuse I initally wanted to limit it to the best ideas I had. To churn out a few really good ones and go from there. I thought I'd be getting requests, but no one seems to be terribly interested but you two. Any requests? I've got a big list of potential candidates.

[InfiniteNothing]

I personally prefer The Neglected or The Forlorn as names for the Slayborn.

And I don't think Sleight Build is worth a +1 LA in this case, no.

And on a side note, the Slayborn quote reminds me of Bioshock's Little Sisters. Both cute and creepy. *shiver*

[Jarrick]

I did have them in mind kind of when writing this stuff out, but I was also thinking Viola Cadaverini from the Ace Attourney series.

"Arent you going to drink your tea...? hee hee hee... I baked you some cookies too..."

[AugustNights]

[QUOTE=Jarrick;9647012]I'm kind of attached to Neglected myself... Or (inspired by neverchild) Netherchild
[quote]
Netherchild, I like it.

I imagine the paladin would be trying to shake it anyways because they tend to make dead things move again, lol. I chose a morale bonus/penalty because I wanted it to represent them feeling comfortable and safe near their attached people. Is there any such thing as a profane morale bonus?

I like where you're going with the idea behind moral bonus, but it's also a creepy enjoyment. A profane pleasure if you will. Perhaps the Netherchild gains it as a moral bonus, and the other creatures gain it as a profane bonus. She's happy, and they feel... dirty... like the Dark Gods have their hands around them, yes its empowering... but not right.

So sleight build isnt +1 LA?

Naw, not in this case. It's a small creature with Monkey Grip, essentially.
And a better grapple. And no +1 to hit and AC.
So it's a medium creature that can slip out of bonds, and squeeze a bit easier. And fit into uncomfortable seats with relative ease. Really Sleight build isn't all that crazy powerful at all. Especially when off set by a negative ability bonus array. Safely not worth +1 LA.

Btw Going to Venice for the weekend. Don't bother holding up, I may have interwebs there.

[Jarrick]

[QUOTE=ChumpLump;9651824][QUOTE=Jarrick;9647012]I'm kind of attached to Neglected myself... Or (inspired by neverchild) Netherchild

Netherchild, I like it.


I like where you're going with the idea behind moral bonus, but it's also a creepy enjoyment. A profane pleasure if you will. Perhaps the Netherchild gains it as a moral bonus, and the other creatures gain it as a profane bonus. She's happy, and they feel... dirty... like the Dark Gods have their hands around them, yes its empowering... but not right.

This. I like this.

Naw, not in this case. It's a small creature with Monkey Grip, essentially.
And a better grapple. And no +1 to hit and AC.
So it's a medium creature that can slip out of bonds, and squeeze a bit easier. And fit into uncomfortable seats with relative ease. Really Sleight build isn't all that crazy powerful at all. Especially when off set by a negative ability bonus array. Safely not worth +1 LA.

Yeah, about that. Read over what I've got and make sure I'm doing it right, because I did give them +1 AC and to hit. I've never seen sleight build written out so I was guessing as to its function when I wrote that.

Btw Going to Venice for the weekend. Don't bother holding up, I may have interwebs there.

Ok, I'm going to get around to the Wheep race shortly. Dont take any free rides from shady gondoliers.

Edit: After thinking about it for a while, I'm actually having a hard time justifying the Wheeps. They dont create spawn, so I'm having trouble coming up with an origin story. Any ideas?

[The Tygre]

Personally, I would have gone with Kinderslain, but it's your call.

Sooooo... Taking requests?

[Jarrick]

Sure! What'll it be?

[Jarrick]

Beware the howling in the dark...
Grievers are up.

Not sure on the LA though.

Other minor changes up as well.

[AugustNights]

Slight Build: The physical stature of a creature lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category smaller. Whenever a a creature is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as Hide), the creature is treated as one size smaller if doing so is advantageous to the character. A creature is also considered to be one size smaller when "squeezing" through a restrictive space. A creature can use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty. However, the space and reach of a creature remain those of a creature of their actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.

Haven't actually looked at orriginal post, bus here.
This is how wizards wrote it originally.
Gatta fly!

[The Tygre]

Hrmm, well I've got a few thoughts...

Blasphemes seem like they could be interesting. The original monsters always came off as something like Resident Evil monsters, so their deadborn could be interested.

Nightshades would be some weird mix of tiefling and undead; like descendants of shadow demons. Only different.

And an interesting concept might be a reborn Atropal. Think about it; somehow, floating around in the astral, without even realizing it, an Atropal imbues its essence into a child being born. The child grows up like one of the ghosts from Geist: for reasons it can't explain, it's compelled to live and do as much as it can in this world, because it's been given a second chance.

[AugustNights]

Second bus stop.
Thug variant should not be specified in favored class, limits it too much. Might mention that they have a tendancy towards the thug variant, but otherwise you run into a more restrictive situation. (For those who even pay attention to these loose multi-classing rules, or those who use pathfinder.



Edit Blindsight is a bit strong, and I'm not certain on the mechanics of it... doesn't it essentially negate hide, darkness, and Invisibility? Perhaps Blindsense would be more effective? Or Blind fight and a super awesome listen check.

Edit 2 Pathfinder rules are not based on creatures' favored classes.

[Jarrick]

Haven't actually looked at orriginal post, bus here.
This is how wizards wrote it originally.
Gatta fly!

Thanks. I'll fix it this afternoon.

Hrmm, well I've got a few thoughts...

Blasphemes seem like they could be interesting. The original monsters always came off as something like Resident Evil monsters, so their deadborn could be interested.

Nightshades would be some weird mix of tiefling and undead; like descendants of shadow demons. Only different.

And an interesting concept might be a reborn Atropal. Think about it; somehow, floating around in the astral, without even realizing it, an Atropal imbues its essence into a child being born. The child grows up like one of the ghosts from Geist: for reasons it can't explain, it's compelled to live and do as much as it can in this world, because it's been given a second chance.

Hm.... ok, I'll see what I can do.

Second bus stop.
Thug variant should not be specified in favored class, limits it too much. Might mention that they have a tendancy towards the thug variant, but otherwise you run into a more restrictive situation. (For those who even pay attention to these loose multi-classing rules, or those who use pathfinder.

Edit Blindsight is a bit strong, and I'm not certain on the mechanics of it... doesn't it essentially negate hide, darkness, and Invisibility? Perhaps Blindsense would be more effective? Or Blind fight and a super awesome listen check.

Well, let me tell you why I did it (You're right about the mechanics, btw). In the Forgotten realms book "Underdark", there's a race called Grimlocks that are born blind, but they have 40ft blindsight and scent. They have a +2 LA and 2 Racial HD, but they've got a lot of other things too, so I thought I could get away with a +1 or a +2. I didnt want to make them actually blind, since that entails a lot fo rolls and is generally frustrating to deal with for the player. I'll put some more thought into it later though, it's hard to think first thing in the morning.

[radmelon]

For another base undead, how about the Allip?

[AugustNights]

Actually I've played a few blind characters in my time. My favorite being a Druid archer with a Hawk companion. He had a trick he called 'Ring the Bell' where the hawk would fly 5 feet over any hostile's head and caw upon passing.... any how, Blind isn't all that bad, and in fact I think a lot of people wouldn't mind playing a Blind Character if it came with Blind Fight for free, just pump that listen check. There are all sorts of other ways around blindness. Detect Magic, Detect Evil, Arcane Sight, all these things are great. Death Watch in particular.

For another base undead, how about the Allip?

This. Yes.
Allips... allips... allips...
Uttermadness... absosolute missunderstanding, the inability to communicate pain and suffering. Whose gunna listen to an allip? Something that doesn't understand language yet. What doesn't know how to communicate it's sufferings besides a wild wailing noise? Babies.
Doesn't even have to be in the womb, just abandoned really. Maybe even raised by allips. Why? Who knows why allips do things... OH man! Worshiped by allips. Why not? It's a living thing that expresses its suffering in the same manner they do, it's like a god to them.
What a poor poor poor crazy creature that would make.
Maybe capable of learning languages but suffers a sever social penalty for not really understanding how they work. 'This Hose Make Death After it Fall Eat We it? Hungry Loud' sort of deal.

Of course I may just be crazy.

[Jarrick]

For another base undead, how about the Allip?

Hmm... insane suicide ghosts... their wisdom drain could afflict the young or unborn, driving them mad and turning them into undead-tainted lunatics with a psychotic babble. I'll add it to the list.

Actually I've played a few blind characters in my time. My favorite being a Druid archer with a Hawk companion. He had a trick he called 'Ring the Bell' where the hawk would fly 5 feet over any hostile's head and caw upon passing.... any how, Blind isn't all that bad, and in fact I think a lot of people wouldn't mind playing a Blind Character if it came with Blind Fight for free, just pump that listen check. There are all sorts of other ways around blindness. Detect Magic, Detect Evil, Arcane Sight, all these things are great. Death Watch in particular.

That's a neat trick. I really wanted them to have blinsight though... What If I made them that way and then gave them blindsight as a racial feat? Maybe one to get blindsense and one more to get blindsight at higher levels? Or what about it starts off as blindfight and a listen bonus and Improves to blindsense at 5th and blindsight at 10th?

Edit:

This. Yes.
Allips... allips... allips...
Uttermadness... absosolute missunderstanding, the inability to communicate pain and suffering. Whose gunna listen to an allip? Something that doesn't understand language yet. What doesn't know how to communicate it's sufferings besides a wild wailing noise? Babies.
Doesn't even have to be in the womb, just abandoned really. Maybe even raised by allips. Why? Who knows why allips do things... OH man! Worshiped by allips. Why not? It's a living thing that expresses its suffering in the same manner they do, it's like a god to them.
What a poor poor poor crazy creature that would make.
Maybe capable of learning languages but suffers a sever social penalty for not really understanding how they work. 'This Hose Make Death After it Fall Eat We it? Hungry Loud' sort of deal.

Of course I may just be crazy.

I like this. very much so.

[Jarrick]

Their strong will to live drives them forth against adversity.
Atrophics are up.

As a side note: Upon further consideration, I think I might be able to get away with more than I've been doing on some of these races. The Deadborn subtype is decidedly weaker than the "Humanoid (Planetouched)" type that lesser versions of planetouched races get.
For those who arent familiar, this means that Aasimar and Tieflings can be played as LA +0 races if you change their type to humanoid (Planetouched) because the subtype means they are vulnerable to both effects that target humanoids and those that target outsiders. The Deadborn subtype is an even bigger weakness though, since there are a lot more spells that negatively impact undead than outsiders.
The reason I mention this is beacue I think I could possibly get away with eliminating the Con penaly that Atrophics get.
Compare what they get to what a LA+0 Aasimar gets and let me know what you think.

This is probably the last race I'll get to do this weekend due to other projects I'm working on, but I'll be checking in to see everyone's comments anyways.

[LOTRfan]

Well, it looks like I have my Big Bad's Dragon.

I like the negative energy aura, and the speak with dead is cool. Perhaps the negative aura could also give a +1 profane bonus to unintelligent undead surrounding it (to mimic the much more powerful create dead at will power of the Atropal)?

I was going to say that Favored Soul had to be the favored class because of its connection to the gods, but I see you have that covered.

[Jolly]

I've been thinking... If you changed the "Deadborn" sub- racial resistance to be more in line with the Tomb Tainted Soul feat, I feel like that would be acceptable. Perhaps have two possibilities for Deadborn, one with fully undead reactions to negative energy and less sub-type characteristics to balance and one that does the half and half (which seems like a pretty strong drawback btw).