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    Default Where's more 4th Edition?

    So, I looked through the upcoming books Wizards of the Coast is bringing out well into next year, and I couldn't find anything that wasn't in their new Essentials line.

    I know it can mesh with the old stuff, but are they simply no longer making products for vanilla 4E anymore?! Were the two Dark Sun books the very last?

    I just bought the 4E core rulebooks, why are they shifting things to something new after less than three years?!
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    No one can understand the business practices of WotC. There's a ton of rumors flying around from Essentials being a total rebranding to Wizards not publishing any new material because they're literally sitting on thousands of books they over-printed. Whatever the case, it looks like Essentials is the new norm.

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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    You missed heroes of shadow?

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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    4th ed. is done with?

    That would explain why encounters is essentials now.
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Huh. I assumed it was more an Essentials thing than anything else. However, that was the only thing that even looked like it might be for 4E. Everything else is all essentials all the time.
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Yeah, that too! Living Forgotten Realms is apparently done, to be replaced by Essentials. Geez. Whenever I finally get manage to warm up to a new edition, it's just in time for it to be on its way out...
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    The more often they come out with systems, the more books they think they'll get people to buy. The less different the systems are, the more likely people won't be upset with the changes. As far as I can tell, they want to scoop up people that didn't want 4e the first time around as well as string along people that did.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Megabyte View Post

    I just bought the 4E core rulebooks, why are they shifting things to something new after less than three years?!
    lol 3.5.

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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    WotC is starting to look like they want to run D&D into the ground. They've annoyed a significant potion of their fan-base numerous times, & it doesn't seem like they know or care about our displeasure.

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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    WotC is starting to look like they want to run D&D into the ground. They've annoyed a significant potion of their fan-base numerous times, & it doesn't seem like they know or care about our displeasure.
    Obviously, it will ease the transition of D&D into a rule subset of M:tG. Product synergy is going to be great with that.

    Edit: By rule subset, I of course mean requiring 4 core books (Player's, Monster Conversion Rules, Spell Conversion Rules, and DMG).
    Last edited by Zeofar; 2010-10-23 at 10:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmbrown View Post
    No one can understand the business practices of WotC. There's a ton of rumors flying around from Essentials being a total rebranding to Wizards not publishing any new material because they're literally sitting on thousands of books they over-printed. Whatever the case, it looks like Essentials is the new norm.
    No. The Essentials line is ten products, most, if not all of which, come out this year, and then is complete. After that they're back to normal 4e books. Which, we know from Gencon, will include Heroes of Shadow, a Player's Handbook focusing on the Heroic tier, another item book called Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium, several more setting books (one on the Nentir Vale, one focused on one section of FR, and a boxed set for the Shadowfell). So there's plenty of things to take your money in the coming year.

    {Scrubbed}
    Last edited by averagejoe; 2010-10-24 at 09:17 PM.
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverent-One View Post
    No. The Essentials line is ten products, most, if not all of which, come out this year, and then is complete. After that they're back to normal 4e books. Which, we know from Gencon, will include Heroes of Shadow, a Player's Handbook focusing on the Heroic tier, another item book called Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium, several more setting books (one on the Nentir Vale, one focused on one section of FR, and a boxed set for the Shadowfell). So there's plenty of things to take your money in the coming year.

    {Scrub the original, scrub the quote}
    So they're ceasing production of their main product line for a year, & instead they are putting out a limited series of semi-compatible books? And once the year is up, they're going back to their main system? That makes even less sense than just moving on to a new version. Good god, they're wacky.
    Last edited by averagejoe; 2010-10-24 at 09:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    So they're ceasing production of their main product line for a year, & instead they are putting out a limited series of semi-compatible books? And once the year is up, they're going back to their main system? That makes even less sense than just moving on to a new version. Good god, they're wacky.
    I believe it's closer to half a year.
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    So they're ceasing production of their main product line for a year, & instead they are putting out a limited series of semi-compatible books? And once the year is up, they're going back to their main system? That makes even less sense than just moving on to a new version. Good god, they're wacky.
    No, to begin with, the Essential's products are only taking up half the of 2010. And since they are fully compatible with 4e in general, they're not abandoning their existing players in any way. The player's books offer new powers and feats even if you don't care for the new class builds, dungeon tiles are useful to those who use such things, the rules compendium is quite the extensive collection of 4e rules, and the monster vault provides more monsters, which are always good to have.
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    So they're ceasing production of their main product line for a year, & instead they are putting out a limited series of semi-compatible books? And once the year is up, they're going back to their main system? That makes even less sense than just moving on to a new version. Good god, they're wacky.
    Psionic Power, release date 8/17/10 (just over 2 months ago). Heroes of Shadow, release date 3/15/11 (a little under 4 months from now). 7 months is a really short year, which doesn't account for any of the other material like maps, miniatures, etc.

    Edit: It looks like it's actually even less of an interval. Rules Compendium came out on 9/21/10 (just over a month ago).

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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Megabyte View Post
    So, I looked through the upcoming books Wizards of the Coast is bringing out well into next year, and I couldn't find anything that wasn't in their new Essentials line.
    Note the difference between the "essentials line", which is exactly ten products that are intended to be always available, and which ends after those ten products; and the "new design philosophy started in essentials", which I call 4.4 for short, which includes every single future book. This means that e.g. every future feat will not have a tier, every future item will have a rarity, and every future wizard encounter power will have a miss effect.

    There are several upcoming books that aren't "essentials" in that they don't have that word on the cover and won't be always available in stores, but are 4.4 in that they follow the philosophy and layout that was first seen in the "essentials" books. Such as:
    • Mordenkainen's Emporium: basically the Adventurer's Vault 3, but focused on the new rarity system. Meant for HOFL/HOFK players that want more common items than the ~50 printed now, and more rare items than the ~20 printed now.
    • Heroes of Shadow: basically the new PHB3, after HOFL and HOFK. It is unclear what classes it contains, since the Assassin is in Dragon magazine and the Hexblade will be in HOFK.
    • Class Compendium, Sword And Spell: the fighter, wizard, rogue, cleric, and warlord builds from the PHB1, as remodelled for 4.4. Meant for HOFL players who want more options.
    • Undoubtedly there will be a second Class Compendium that features the ranger, druid, paladin, and warlock, meant for HOFK players who want more options.
    • Champions of the Heroic Tier: themes (like in the Dark Sun book but for other campaign worlds) and professions.
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    So they're ceasing production of their main product line for a year, & instead they are putting out a limited series of semi-compatible books? And once the year is up, they're going back to their main system? That makes even less sense than just moving on to a new version. Good god, they're wacky.
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    [*]Mordenkainen's Emporium: basically the Adventurer's Vault 3, but focused on the new rarity system items with story behind them rather than being nothing more than +X and some magic property. Meant for HOFL/HOFK all 4e players that want more common items than the ~50 printed now, and more rare items than the ~20 printed now.
    Fixed that for you.

    [*]Class Compendium, Sword And Spell: the fighter, wizard, rogue, cleric, and warlord builds from the PHB1, as remodelled for 4.4. Meant for HOFL players who want more options.
    Also makes it possible for people using the pre-Essentials builds to take the class features of the Essential class builds. And from the description, may contain most of the errata for the PHB I classes that are included in it, which is something 4e players have been asking for for a while.

    [*]Undoubtedly there will be a second Class Compendium that features the ranger, druid, paladin, and warlock, meant for HOFK players who want more options.
    See above point.

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    Last edited by averagejoe; 2010-10-24 at 09:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverent-One View Post
    {Scrub the original, scrub the quote}
    Why did they delete all their non-Essentials 4e material then?
    Last edited by averagejoe; 2010-10-24 at 09:24 PM.
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    Why did they delete all their non-Essentials 4e material then?
    What are you even talking about?
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverent-One View Post
    What are you even talking about?
    Yeah, the sheer ignorance in this thread blows my mind.

    They're not deleting their pre-Essentials stuff because Essentials is part of 4e.
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Silver View Post
    They're not deleting their pre-Essentials stuff because Essentials is part of 4e.
    Yes, but they are updating everything that they have done in the past three years, essentially invalidating it. It's 4.5 is all but name. You can paint it up with semantics & terminology all you want, but the bottom line is that they have tweaked the system & they want you to buy it all over again.

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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    It doesn't invalidate 4e because it's part of 4e. It's basically a simplified version of the game for beginners, and is fully compatible with all 4e content.

    Besides, 4e players are used to regular errata, or as Wizards calls them, Rules Updates. Rules updates are a good thing because they fix broken stuff. They didn't have as much errata for 3.5 because they were less aware of its issues.

    This is like complaining that a publisher prints a second edition of a book that fixes typos and other errors.
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Obviously, they're preparing for either an official 4.5e or 5e.

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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    Yes, but they are updating everything that they have done in the past three years, essentially invalidating it. It's 4.5 is all but name. You can paint it up with semantics & terminology all you want, but the bottom line is that they have tweaked the system & they want you to buy it all over again.
    They've tweaked the system since the first book after the PHB I, MM I, and DMG I. They are NOT invalidating the old stuff. If you want to play a PHB I fighter, guess what? There's nothing wrong with doing that. They want you to buy more books, yes, but again, they've been doing that ever since they released the PHB I, MM I, and DMG I. The difference between this and what you call "4.5" is that you don't need to buy the new stuff anymore than you had to buy the X Power books or the later MMs.

    {Scrubbed}
    Last edited by averagejoe; 2010-10-24 at 09:21 PM.
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Word of God says that Essentials wasn't meant to replace 4e, it's just a supplement. Essentials characters can be used in 4e and vice versa.

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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Silver View Post
    This is like complaining that a publisher prints a second edition of a book that fixes typos and other errors.
    And you're telling me you wouldn't be pissed off at the publisher that would charge full price for a book that only has fixed typos and some errors? Because frankly, I'd be pretty pissed off with them.
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Are you forced to buy it? Because last I knew, mind-controlling devices still haven't been invented yet.

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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordokai View Post
    And you're telling me you wouldn't be pissed off at the publisher that would charge full price for a book that only has fixed typos and some errors? Because frankly, I'd be pretty pissed off with them.
    The problem with Joseph Silver's analogy was that WoTC isn't charging for their updates, the errata is free online. A better one would be Amazon putting out a new kindle version of some book, with corrections to the typos and errors to everyone who bought the old version.
    Last edited by Reverent-One; 2010-10-24 at 01:28 PM.
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaEmil View Post
    Are you forced to buy it? Because last I knew, mind-controlling devices still haven't been invented yet.
    Ah, that's what they want you to think

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverent-One View Post
    The problem with Joseph Silver's analogy was that WoTC isn't charging for their updates, the errata is free online. A better one would be Amazon putting out a new kindle version of some book, with corrections to the typos and errors to everyone who bought the old version.
    I am well aware what he meant and have chosen to be an ass about it on purpose. Guess an apology is due. Still, on some level, what I said is true. IF Essentials would be nothing more than fixed typos (which I know is not the case), than it would be pretty bitchy to pay full amount of cash for the product. And some people do see it as such, I guess. Now me, I haven't bought a single book since the basic set (PHB I, DMG I and MM I) and have sold those three soon after I have bought them, so this doesn't really concern me since I'm living off CB nicely. Some people prefer their books in paper and guess those people have more problems with this new line of products.
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    Default Re: Where's more 4th Edition?

    heh. I'm a 4E'er, I did some research on Essentials.

    guess what. I looked WotC's online DnD catalog, and Essentials were listed as a supplement, meaning that Essentials is not even Core, so its not even a central part of the rules, in short....

    Essentials is completely optional, is not essential at all.
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