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    Default (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    I never looked at this class in depth, but I haven't seen so much goodness and flavor combined stuffed into a tiny little 3 level PrC that you can access at level 5, ever!

    So...what fun things have you guys done with this class?

    I've already got a simple idea -- Goliath, Ranger 1 (for skills and tracking)/Barbarian X (with Goliath substitution levels and lion totem pounce)/ FotF. Alternately, human Ranger 1/Monk (blah) X/FotF 3, Kensai 10. I'm sure there's plenty one could do with unarmed swordsage...

    What fun things have you done with this class?
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    The main trick I know of is to be a dwarf monk/ranger take Fist of the Forest and Deep Warden for CON to AC twice. Was a fun one to play too because the FotF has to sleep outside I simply made him get drunk stagger out of any tavern an sleep on the streets. I wanted to add Drunken master but it didnt get that far
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by Talya View Post
    I never looked at this class in depth, but I haven't seen so much goodness and flavor combined stuffed into a tiny little 3 level PrC that you can access at level 5, ever!

    So...what fun things have you guys done with this class?

    I've already got a simple idea -- Goliath, Ranger 1 (for skills and tracking)/Barbarian X (with Goliath substitution levels and lion totem pounce)/ FotF. Alternately, human Ranger 1/Monk (blah) X/FotF 3, Kensai 10. I'm sure there's plenty one could do with unarmed swordsage...

    What fun things have you done with this class?
    Ah yes, one of my all-time favorites. There's the obvious Fist of the Forests/Deepwarden Dwarf (Deepwarden is in Races of Stone; basically underground Dwarf Ranger) who gets his Con to AC twice along with all sorts of nifty abilities. Barbarian also flows very naturally into Fist of the Forests. Bear Warrior/FotF is <3 and FotF serves as a nice entry to Frenzied Berserker or Runescarred Berserker too (and all of them make tons of sense...and work).

    Of course, there's also the whole Ex-Monk approach which can be quite lucrative especially with the Unarmed Strike Die increases (I suppose you don't have to be an Ex-Monk, but eh, screw Monks, I have money! Besides, when you enter you'll become an Ex-Monk anyways, or at least as good as one!), and this combines naturally with all manners of martial artists (Unarmed Swordsages [particularly Tiger Claw focus works great with the class], Shadow Sun Ninjas, Sacred Fists, Shou Disciples, Drunken Masters and so on).


    Oh, and it can be entered on level 4! That means you basically can cram it into most Barbarian builds that are interested without losing levels in the future PrC, since the Barbarian PrCs tend to start at level 7-8. Oh, and FotF goes great with Wildshape characters too. Druids, but especially Master of Many Forms Rangers, really benefit of the abilities the class gives and having Unarmed Strike can be hilarious in animal forms (since you get your full unarmed strikes with secondary natural attacks; and you get to be a Kung Fu Bear!). And like, how to better be like an animal than to simply just be an animal

    Yeah, there are very few PrCs which fit so neatly into such a wide variety of concepts and builds, and I really love the concept of micro PrCs with only 3 levels when you want to color your character X without giving up his main path.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-10-25 at 04:57 PM.
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Oh, and it can be entered on level 4!
    5, isn't it? You cannot meet the +4 BAB requirement until level 4, and then you could take FotF the following level. (obviously, FotF's own BAB cannot be used to qualify for itself.)

    Still, that's exceptionally early for any PrC.
    Last edited by Talya; 2010-10-25 at 05:02 PM.
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by Talya View Post
    5, isn't it? You cannot meet the +4 BAB requirement until level 4, and then you could take FotF the following level. (obviously, FotF's own BAB cannot be used to qualify for itself.)

    Still, that's exceptionally early for any PrC.
    Yeah, sorry, that's what I meant. That is, you qualify on level 4. So the first level is taken on level 5. Yeah. That's what I was trying to say *nods* It's just, I'm so used to referring to the level on which you qualify as the level on which you enter a class (since that's when you start taking levels in the class though your next level is the first level so...meh).

    But yeah, on average a level earlier than most classes, and multiple levels earlier than most martial classes (for whatever reason, casters are allowed to usually enter on level 6 while martial types have to wait until 7-8).
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-10-25 at 05:05 PM.
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    I seem to recall FotF being mentioned as part of some kind of unholy (well, broken as heck) character build. I think it was including monk, warshaper and psychic fist - basically grabbing classes that increase unarmed/natural weapon damage either by advancement or making it a size category larger.

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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by holywhippet View Post
    I seem to recall FotF being mentioned as part of some kind of unholy (well, broken as heck) character build. I think it was including monk, warshaper and psychic fist - basically grabbing classes that increase unarmed/natural weapon damage either by advancement or making it a size category larger.
    Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries a part of that build? Also, broken because of unarmed damage seems like a relatively dubious claim.

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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    You could squeeze in some FotF in the middle or end of a Monk2/X3/WarMind10 Tash build, pick up Expansion from War Mind and have a friendly caster drop a Greater Mighty Wallop on you. That would give you somewhere in the realm of 16d6 to 24d6 unarmed strikes, but thats not much outside of what you'd get with any other King of Smack or Tash build with increased complication. That said...Monk2/Totemist2/Barb1/WarMind5/FotF3/WarMind+5...hmmmm, zee grapple checks, zeh are over nine THOUSANDDDDDDDD!!!!!

    So also: Bearfist Fistbear build. The Con increases you get from Bear Warrior doubled with FotF and Deepwarden make your AC go UP when you rage, rather than down. Its kinda funny!
    Last edited by Keld Denar; 2010-10-25 at 05:40 PM.
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    So also: Bearfist Fistbear build. The Con increases you get from Bear Warrior doubled with FotF and Deepwarden make your AC go UP when you rage, rather than down. Its kinda funny!
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by Tshern View Post
    Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries a part of that build? Also, broken because of unarmed damage seems like a relatively dubious claim.
    Can't recall. The posting was somewhere on these forums - couldn't find it the last time I went searching though.

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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by holywhippet View Post
    Can't recall. The posting was somewhere on these forums - couldn't find it the last time I went searching though.
    No probs. There's been a bunch of those floating around different boards, so I know the general idea.

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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    So also: Bearfist Fistbear build. The Con increases you get from Bear Warrior doubled with FotF and Deepwarden make your AC go UP when you rage, rather than down. Its kinda funny!
    If you go the poison healer route as well, you can be a bear that drinks beer and gets harder to hit, hardier, and healed by it.

    At least, iirc, beer is a poison that raises con and lowers wisdom in a 3e thing that never got updated so it's valid.
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    What book is FotF from?

    EDIT: Nevermind, I looked it up on the old 3.5 prestige class archives. It's in Complete Champion, for the record.
    Last edited by Zeta Kai; 2010-10-25 at 06:21 PM.

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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    What book is FotF from?
    Complete Champion.

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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    I can't really see this as an effective thing for druids without feats making up for the loss in animal companion and spellcasting... unless your druid is built around ONLY wildshaping (MOMF/Warshaper)

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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Nohn View Post
    I can't really see this as an effective thing for druids without feats making up for the loss in animal companion and spellcasting... unless your druid is built around ONLY wildshaping (MOMF/Warshaper)
    Wildshape Ranger/MoMF is the best way to go in as a wildshaper.
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    If you go the poison healer route as well, you can be a bear that drinks beer and gets harder to hit, hardier, and healed by it.

    At least, iirc, beer is a poison that raises con and lowers wisdom in a 3e thing that never got updated so it's valid.
    Where did you find that: it beer doesn't raise con in other books I saw.

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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    What do you think of warblading your way into tiger claw with the FotF rather than unarmed swordsage? Yeah, you miss out on a bit of damage progression, but i've always liked the warblade more than the swordsage. Especially here...where the class feels designed for a barbarian d12 hit die type.
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by Talya View Post
    What do you think of warblading your way into tiger claw with the FotF rather than unarmed swordsage? Yeah, you miss out on a bit of damage progression, but i've always liked the warblade more than the swordsage. Especially here...where the class feels designed for a barbarian d12 hit die type.
    Sure. Warblade can act as Barbarian more or less, so it works fine. You get 1d10 UA die from just FotF and with Superior Unarmed Strike, you'd eventually get 2d10 if that's what you feel like. So yeah, it's fine; natural entry much in the same way as Barbarian or Ranger.

    What you do with the unarmed strike depends; you don't even have to use it or you can make it secondary. The class is fine without it, though obviously it's a useful part of it.
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Didn't Bearfist used this in his build?
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    How well does it work with Incarnum or DFA? I assume well, since you like high Con anyway, and living off the land is a lot easier when you can cook your food by blowing on it or make your own magic items out of concentrated Blue.

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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Where did you find that: it beer doesn't raise con in other books I saw.
    Hmm, either the idea just worked its way in there or there was another trick the build I first saw poison healer + Fist of the Forest together used then. Could've sworn I ran into a build that raised its AC via alcohol consumption... funny.

    I think alcohol as poison comes from A&EG though.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2010-10-25 at 11:02 PM.
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    An idea I just had:

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    Halfling - Stalwart
    
    Level 1: Monk 1 - Undying Way variant
              1: Spellfire Wielder
              Halfling: Great Fortitude
              Flaw 1: Sacred Vow
              Flaw 2: Vow of Poverty
              Monk: Improved Unarmed Strike
              Monk: Improved Grapple
              Monk: Toughness
    Level 2: Monk 2
              Monk: Endurance
              Vow:
    Level 3: Ranger 1 - Wildshape Variant - chain druid ACF to lose wildshape - chain Monk ACF for barb damage reduction - Urban ranger
              3: Power Attack
              Ranger: Track
              Ranger: Urban Tracking
    Level 4: Ranger 2
              Vow:
    Level 5: Fist of the Forest 1
    Level 6: Fist of the Forest 2
              6: Yondalla's Sense
              Vow:
    Level 7: Fist of the Forest 3
    Level 8: Spellfire Channeler 1
              Vow:
    Level 9: Spellfire Channeler 2
              9: Dodge
    Level 10: Spellfire Channeler 3
              Vow:
              SC: Weapon Focus (spellfire)
    Level 11: Spellfire Channeler 4
    Level 12: Spellfire Channeler 5
              12: Mobility
              Vow:
    Level 13: Spellfire Channeler 6
    Level 14: Spellfire Channeler 7
             Vow:
    Level 15: Spellfire Channeler 8
              15: Spring Attack
    Level 16: Spellfire Channeler 9
             Vow:
    Level 17: Spellfire Channeler 10
    Level 18: Warmind
               18: Wild Talent
               Vow:
    Level 19: Elocater 1
    Level 20: Elocater 2
               Vow: 
    Level 21: Elocater 3
               21:
    Level 22: Elocater 4
               Vow:
    Level 23: Elocater 5
    Level 24: Elocater 6
              24:
              Vow:
    Level 25: Elocater 7
    Level 26+: Psion Uncarnate


    I might see about making him if I ever get to play an epic level game. lol.
    Though he would be amusing to play at level 17.
    Last edited by Gaiyamato; 2010-10-25 at 11:27 PM.
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    You could make fist of the forest with a more monk like feel by going with Swashbuckler/fighter and then using your feats for other monk like abilities. Pump your Int for bonus AC and damage as well as your Dex for AC and attack Rolls. (unarmed strikes are finesse-able) To pump more Unarmed Damage pick up Superior Unarmed strike out of ToB.

    Obviously such a build would not be exactly a replication of monk abilities but it seems viable to me.

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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Well swashbuckler/warblade make a good Int fighter combo, with just a couple of feats you would be close to the monk, but then you get maneuvers on top of it. Maybe just 2 levels of fighter for extra feats early on.
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    So, a friend of mine just announced a very low magic campaign, starting at level 2. Wizards, Druids, and Clerics are banned outright. Most non-core base classes are disallowed as well, with a few exceptions (on a case-by-case basis.) He's allowing TOB wholesale, although he's toning down some of the more mystic-feeling disciplines. The world does have magic, things still go bump in the night, it's just that for the humans who dominate it, they rarely have command over it, and when they do, it's limited. (Sorcerer and favored soul are allowed, but he is probably neutering the spell list.)

    In this setting, I've decided to play a Fist of the Forest. Obviously, cannot get into it yet, but i'm starting out as a human ranger 1/barbarian 1, with a vow of poverty* (using flaws) and the rest of her feats used to get prequisites to FotF by level 5. Probably will be Ranger 1/Barbarian 1/Warblade 2 before I get into FotF, then continue on Warblade afterward.

    Thoughts?

    *- yes, yes, I know VOP sucks. This is a low magic campaign, and it fits how I want to play her, however, so it should be fine.
    Last edited by Talya; 2010-10-27 at 03:04 PM.
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Doesn't VOP prevent you from wearing armor? Which you'll need if you're going to be a melee fighter and survive to 5th level?
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Doesn't VOP prevent you from wearing armor? Which you'll need if you're going to be a melee fighter and survive to 5th level?
    Yes, but it also grants you a fair bit of armor (4 points - like a chain shirt - at level 1, and going up rapidly after that), And I didn't dump dexterity completely. That's nearly as good as it gets for a medium armor class, anyway. And when I've got 10 armor bonus to armor class (and deflection and natural armor bonuses, too) at level 20, I'm laughing.
    Last edited by Talya; 2010-10-27 at 03:08 PM.
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Hmm, either the idea just worked its way in there or there was another trick the build I first saw poison healer + Fist of the Forest together used then. Could've sworn I ran into a build that raised its AC via alcohol consumption... funny.

    I think alcohol as poison comes from A&EG though.
    Alcohol as a poison is for the healing. Alcohol increasing Con is a Drunken Master ability. They combine in the classic Fistbeard Beardfist build.
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    Default Re: (3.5e) Fist of the Forest

    Quote Originally Posted by Talya View Post
    Yes, but it also grants you a fair bit of armor (4 points - like a chain shirt - at level 1, and going up rapidly after that), And I didn't dump dexterity completely. That's nearly as good as it gets for a medium armor class, anyway. And when I've got 10 armor bonus to armor class (and deflection and natural armor bonuses, too) at level 20, I'm laughing.
    VOP does forbid you to wear armor, but not magic items if you take a level in Apostle of Peace, as it says:
    Requirements: Sacred Vow, Vow of Nonviolence, Vow of Peace, Vow of Poverty
    Weapons and Armor Proficiency: ... gains no proficiency in weapons or armor
    As part of their sacred vows, Apostles of peace forswear the use of armor, though they may wear magic items that protect them ...

    The (il)logic: Normally, if you use (or wear) a magic item, you're breaking your Vow of Poverty, and you would give up the Vow of Poverty feat, and would lose all of your class features for no longer fitting the entry requirements. Otherwise you would be able to take Vow of Nonviolence/Peace only long enough to get the class, then drop the Vow and go back to being a happy Wizard/Apostle of Peace 2(or 4 for censure fiends)/Mystic Theurge or whatever you want to boost an arcane and divine caster, and kill things without losing your casting class.

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