Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

[Mecharious]

Wait a sec... Gamblers don't even have arcane weapon proficiency!

[Dust]

Again, don't take too much from the jot notes! They still remain only that - remeber, six pages of that sort of thing.

[Mecharious]

I was thinking of maybe starting my own FFd6 game on these forums. I've never DMed on forums before (mostly because I didn't want to spend a lot of time on grids), but this game is pretty low maintenance for both players and DMs. I just thought I'd check if there's still any interest since this has spawned plenty of games on these forums (the game takes place in FFXII/FFTA2 Ivalice)

Also, I have a number of house-rules in mind. I'll report back to Dust to tell her how it works out if the game gets started (biggest thing going to be my change to dex-based weapons.)

[Dust]

I'd play.

[Naki]

So, I just found this, and I think it's a great alternative/fix for the other existing systems for emulating FF style games, and I found the same problem with the Fighter that has come up here: It's bland, and doesn't seem all that interesting.

It seems to try and eat up the flavour of the the FFT/V Knight, Squire, the classic Fighter and kind of the Swordmaster (via the use of Cleave). Wouldn't it be more effective to break it into two distinct classes: The Knight, a heavy armor user and front line fighter (taking notes from the FFTA Soldier, perhaps); and the Fighter, a arts-based combatant that eschews defense for combat prowess (ala, the style of Cyan, Orlandeau, Cloud, the FFTA Fighter). This would fix the problem that the Fighter doesn't seem to be all that interesting and perhaps perk up interest if it tries not to do everything at once. It seems like it's primary problem is that it tries to be strong and hearty, and when has to make a choice, it ends up worse for it.

EDIT: Other questions now that I've taken some time to read more.

On percentile modifier stacking: Is there a reason why a Fire Strike weapon, striking a Fire Weak enemy with a critical does 400% and not 300% (100% (base)+100%(critical)+100%(weakness))? It doesn't add up to me as to why it'd quadruple, and not triple if you meet 2 qualifiers for +100% damage.

The Samurai and Draw Out: Aren't all Samurai basically forced into taking Iaido if they want to make any use of their basic job ability? Else, they're being forced into paying out extra Gil, or being master artisans (for Synth) to play upkeep with their weapons? Wouldn't Draw Out function better if it was a base chance (75%), modified by Iaido (Down to 50 or even 25) instead of being a 100% chance of breakage? The flavour of Draw Out is drawing out the spirit, but it was that the power of exhausting the blade may come at the price of shattering it.

Dragoons: Jump seems largely pointless. It allows one to make an attack a medium range. But it's still subject to missing, and cannot become a critical hit. It's also Slow, and cannot be sped up via Haste, making questionable why a Dragoon would jump under normal circumstances? A Dragoon's normal attack seems to always be better. Perhaps I've missed something, though?

Damage Step stacking: Wouldn't it be prudent to limit these? Perhaps 3 times before you cannot take it anymore. A Paladin with Auto-Regen (or, god forbid, Auto-Aura) and taking Avenger multiple times appears to be able to devastate enemies, moreso than the Dark Knight, Thief or the Fighter.

Spells: Having I, II, II and the -a, -aga, -aja (Strangely, used as -aga II) seems redundant. If you want Party-versions to be weaker, why not apply a percent-based penalty to healing. 'Cure heals INTx2+2d6 to a single to target, or 75% of that amount to the Party'. In this case, it heals 27 HP to a single target on average at level 1, or 20 to the party (assuming 10 INT). At Curaga, it becomes more prevalent (still assuming 10 INT, which is likely false, but alas), INT*6+2d6 is 67 on a single target, or 50 to each. A gap of 17 damage, and only 7 less than what the current Curaga does. This gap increases as INT (and the scale) increases. It weeds out redundancy, and no longer forces a White Mage to pick up two different spells to heal the party effectively at each tier. The only time that Curaga and Curaga II scale better than usual is above-average party sizes (upwards of 5, where 5-7 castings of Cure II is both impossible and impractical on your MP).

As an alterative, as well, Cure I-IV should be Cure, Cura, Curaga, Curaja, while Curaga I and II would be Heal and Healra. (based from FFI) This allows them to fit naming conventions existant in Black Magic and Time Magic.

[Kobold-Bard]

I'd play.

Me too, I'm running a game and setting up another, I'd like to actually play in one.

...

Dragoons: Jump seems largely pointless. It allows one to make an attack a medium range. But it's still subject to missing, and cannot become a critical hit. It's also Slow, and cannot be sped up via Haste, making questionable why a Dragoon would jump under normal circumstances? A Dragoon's normal attack seems to always be better. Perhaps I've missed something, though?

Whilst in the air you can't be targetted, so if you keep Jumping you can be fairly consistently immune to damage.

It should be able to be a critical hit though, I don't understand why it can't.

And by taking High Jump you become a Final Fantasy style cruise missile.

[Naki]

Whilst in the air you can't be targetted, so if you keep Jumping you can be fairly consistently immune to damage.

It should be able to be a critical hit though, I don't understand why it can't.

And by taking High Jump you become a Final Fantasy style cruise missile.

At least, early on yes. Once Group spells come into play, the Dragoon loses this immunity, and becomes largely lackluster. His once advantage is now more of a detriment, as he cannot use it to avoid a spell he knows is coming, and loses the option to use a limit break or even a critical hit if he makes what is his iconic attack. It immeadiately becomes better for him to make a normal attack action at that point. Which causes the "Hitting A is faster and more efficient than using spells" tactic that plagues the post-IV FFs to translate into a tabletop version. Which is bad. O-o

[Dust]

Wouldn't it be more effective to break it into two distinct classes: The Knight, a heavy armor user and front line fighter (taking notes from the FFTA Soldier, perhaps); and the Fighter, a arts-based combatant that eschews defense for combat prowess (ala, the style of Cyan, Orlandeau, Cloud, the FFTA Fighter).

I still feel that, with work, I can make the Fighter viable and interesting. The suggestion has been made a few times and I find myself still opposed to it. A swordmaster Job would be beyond redundant with all of the other sacrifice-defense-for-offense damage-dealing Jobs currently in the game, and I have no desire to set Knight and Paladin side by side and try and struggle to make them different, when in reality it boils down to 'one uses magic, one doesn't.'
Fighter needs to be fixed; not split.

Is there a reason why a Fire Strike weapon, striking a Fire Weak enemy with a critical does 400% and not 300% (100% (base)+100%(critical)+100%(weakness))? It doesn't add up to me as to why it'd quadruple, and not triple if you meet 2 qualifiers for +100% damage.

Likely because I'm terrible at trying to stay consistent when it comes to abstract mathematical damage formulae. I feel the damage multipliers are a hindrance, and the errors/inconsistencies that pop up regarding those is partially because I really, really didn't want to be using them. You're correct, 300% damage makes sense, and I realize it isn't written that way.
The percentage-based damage jumps is something that needs to be looked at closely for a variety of reasons.

Aren't all Samurai basically forced into taking Iaido if they want to make any use of their basic job ability? Else, they're being forced into paying out extra Gil, or being master artisans (for Synth) to play upkeep with their weapons? Wouldn't Draw Out function better if it was a base chance (75%), modified by Iaido (Down to 50 or even 25) instead of being a 100% chance of breakage? The flavour of Draw Out is drawing out the spirit, but it was that the power of exhausting the blade may come at the price of shattering it.

Aren't all Geomancers basically forced into taking Home Terrain in order to use their basic job ability? I mean, otherwise you're battling in a SNOW area and using ice attacks on enemies are probably resistant to it.
Gambler only has a 60% chance at success with his Slots unless he takes One for the Money. You'd be foolish not to.

Draw Out, I feel, is just fine.
Samurai is getting some tweaks; predominantly in how they sacrifice damage for support in the 'Break' abilities instead of combining it. As mentioned previously it bothers me I haven't stated that Draw Out attacks can't miss, need to have their bonus effects adjusted, and I also feel that some non-status-inducing weapon properties should activate on Draw Out as well.
But for the most part, Draw Out is powerful enough that it needed the drawback, and I'm uninclined to change it anytime soon.

Wouldn't it be prudent to limit these? Perhaps 3 times before you cannot take it anymore. A Paladin with Auto-Regen (or, god forbid, Auto-Aura) and taking Avenger multiple times appears to be able to devastate enemies, moreso than the Dark Knight, Thief or the Fighter.

That's definitely one fix, and something I'll have to ponder. (As an aside, Auto-Aura, as granted passively by equipment, doesn't exist.)

Having I, II, II and the -a, -aga, -aja (Strangely, used as -aga II) seems redundant. If you want Party-versions to be weaker, why not apply a percent-based penalty to healing.
Cure I-IV should be Cure, Cura, Curaga, Curaja. This allows them to fit naming conventions existant in Black Magic and Time Magic.

This is brilliant and I can't believe it didn't occur to me before. A well-needed fix and an awesome suggestion. Thanks!

It should be able to be a critical hit though, I don't understand why it can't.

To prevent it from being used every round nonstop.

[Mecharious]

Okay then, I think I'll put a thread up in recruitment later today.

[Mecharious]

And it's up: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...9#post10243079

[Temotei]

I was just playing Final Fantasy VII again, when I came across the Golden Saucer game with the mog in it. The game said that the main character was twenty-eight years old--just old enough to become an adult by flying and finding a mate.

Is it intentional that twenty-eight is on the higher end of the "Old" age scale?

[Dust]

He IS pretty old.

[Temotei]

He IS pretty old.

Where does that aging scale come from, though? The arcade game said he was becoming an adult.

[Naki]

I still feel that, with work, I can make the Fighter viable and interesting. The suggestion has been made a few times and I find myself still opposed to it. A swordmaster Job would be beyond redundant with all of the other sacrifice-defense-for-offense damage-dealing Jobs currently in the game, and I have no desire to set Knight and Paladin side by side and try and struggle to make them different, when in reality it boils down to 'one uses magic, one doesn't.'
Fighter needs to be fixed; not split.

Thats fine, I see what you're getting at. I'm not so sure about an abundance of Eschew Defense for Offense classes though. The Dark Knight is still pretty tanky, and can restore it's own HP fairly consistently. The Dragoon can avoid targetted spells with 100% efficiency. The Monk, as always, is the epitome of "OhdeargodtheHPz". The Samurai, Ninja and Thief are about it when it comes to this option. I still believe that looking at Iconic Fighters (Cloud, Steiner, Squall) is a good idea, however. Blade Beam, for example, is something that's fairly iconic for Fighter types in FF now, and gives the Fighter a bit more versatility.

Likely because I'm terrible at trying to stay consistent when it comes to abstract mathematical damage formulae. I feel the damage multipliers are a hindrance, and the errors/inconsistencies that pop up regarding those is partially because I really, really didn't want to be using them. You're correct, 300% damage makes sense, and I realize it isn't written that way.
The percentage-based damage jumps is something that needs to be looked at closely for a variety of reasons.

I see what you're getting at. I imagine it's how it's originally worded. "Fire Strike deals 200% and you critical, dealing 200%, thus, 400%!" Instead of treating them at +100% modifiers each. Though, I do agree, the percentage-based damage is something I found wrong with other systems, as it was far too easy to abuse.

Aren't all Geomancers basically forced into taking Home Terrain in order to use their basic job ability? I mean, otherwise you're battling in a SNOW area and using ice attacks on enemies are probably resistant to it.
Gambler only has a 60% chance at success with his Slots unless he takes One for the Money. You'd be foolish not to.

Draw Out, I feel, is just fine.
Samurai is getting some tweaks; predominantly in how they sacrifice damage for support in the 'Break' abilities instead of combining it. As mentioned previously it bothers me I haven't stated that Draw Out attacks can't miss, need to have their bonus effects adjusted, and I also feel that some non-status-inducing weapon properties should activate on Draw Out as well.
But for the most part, Draw Out is powerful enough that it needed the drawback, and I'm uninclined to change it anytime soon.

Admittedly, I haven't looked over every class that indepth yet, so I wasn't aware of the similar issue with the Gambler and Geomancer. However, those are good points I largely agree with. I'm still not necessarily on board with "You break your weapon and are largely useless for the rest of the fight", making Draw Out into a "Dear God, this best kill the boss!" and no other use. I don't really find that too drawing as a class feature, but YMMV. Not missing it definitely a good start, but unless Samurai have a method of restoring Kami to repaired weapons, you use it once a tier, or you're begging friends for cash every couple of fights.

That's definitely one fix, and something I'll have to ponder. (As an aside, Auto-Aura, as granted passively by equipment, doesn't exist.)

This is true, it doesn't. However, it's easily added via Special Ability/?Spell Effect? (if not by Auto-Status) on a custom weapon. Which most (see: all) players are likely to have. It can be obtained as early as Tier 2, theoretically.

This is brilliant and I can't believe it didn't occur to me before. A well-needed fix and an awesome suggestion. Thanks!

Glad to help; I thought it was odd, and figured it'd be worth pointing out.

To prevent it from being used every round nonstop.

I discussed this with my group, and while one of us argued "It's clearly for balance!" without actually giving some mechanic-based reasoning, the rest of us couldn't grasp a situation where Single target ranged effects wouldn't work, but short range group effects (Like, say, a Limit) would. Either Jump is worded poorly, of it's just not quite balanced yet. We noted that any situation where a Dragoon could reasonably targeted by a Group attack, would mean he could be targeted by a Single target, medium (or long, in High Jump's case) ability as well. We understood Rule of Cool was in effect, but it still caused a degree of breaking our suspension. Either, Jump needs to be worded more effectively to clarify what attacks target is (Medium/Long ranged Group attacks and Local, I assume), or allow Medium/Long ranged single target spells and make it worthwhile to use (unable to miss, or able to crit. Something to that effect).

[Kobold-Bard]

Sagacity- Special
The character is a Sage, and has dabbled in even the most obscure magical arts. Sages have obtained the ability to learn Time Magic in addition to the standard Red and Black schools.

Minor error, don't know if it's been mentioned before.

[steelsmiter]

Someone mentioned Upthread about looking at main characters like say, Steiner, and with that in mind I'll be working on a sword saint class that makes his build more viable...

[Naki]

Someone mentioned Upthread about looking at main characters like say, Steiner, and with that in mind I'll be working on a sword saint class that makes his build more viable...

I had considered doing this, but Steiner is a Mystic Knight (Of FFV) and a plain old Knight. Sword Saint wouldn't actually encompass any of his or Beatrix' abilities at all (As it's unique to FFT and is a medium ranged sword caster). He really is more of a Samurai+Red Mage in this case (He uses all of the breaks + Spellblades)

[steelsmiter]

I had considered doing this, but Steiner is a Mystic Knight (Of FFV) and a plain old Knight. Sword Saint wouldn't actually encompass any of his or Beatrix' abilities at all (As it's unique to FFT and is a medium ranged sword caster). He really is more of a Samurai+Red Mage in this case (He uses all of the breaks + Spellblades)

sorry I hadn't played FFT I was thinking he was a cross between Pal (for white magic) and Sam (for breaks), but didn't know whether the word I translated into english was Kensei or Kensai, so I used the translation without being aware there was a class for it... I was just gonna throw the spellblade in there and work it more like it was in 9 calling it something else for the sake of ability diffrentiation. I was also gonna call the "Draw Out" ability something else and give it MP based mechanics, again for diffrentiation.

[TheBoyce]

A question

Items that have properties that can be used 1/session. The wording implies that this property is on the weapon itself, so could someone use a sword's Piercing Strike then equip a new sword and use Piercing strike again?

[Kobold-Bard]

A question

Items that have properties that can be used 1/session. The wording implies that this property is on the weapon itself, so could someone use a sword's Piercing Strike then equip a new sword and use Piercing strike again?

Sure, why not?

[TheBoyce]

Then a Monk with Counter and Hamedo could just buy a bunch of fist weapons and well, you get the idea

[Dust]

Currently the answer is yes by RAW, but remember swapping weapons takes a Standard action. This is one of the things that's getting altered.

As for Steiner, well.
The character was originally conceived as a 'Paladin' named 'Edward' Steiner, leading a group of other Alexandrian paladins. He was coded as having the Magic Sword ability, which he could self-cast, but it had nothing to do with his Job. The developers later realized this didn't make a lot of sense for the character, since the game definitely didn't need another character with access to healing magic, and this would actually make him not a Paladin, but a Mystic Knight - a Job that, up until that point, had only ever appeared in Final Fantasy V.
So when they sat down and re-wrote the character, they turned him into rumbling comic relief and made him work with Vivi to use his Magic Sword instead.
Because of these changes, Steiner doesn't fall easily into a single Job category. Much like Aeris, who was conceived as a Geomancer and then changed at the last minute.
/soapbox

If I was to sit down and build an additional Job, it would certainly be a Fencer/Spellblade-esque type to fill in the gaps of character concepts that...
A) have difficulty being built in the system right now
B) are canon

I'm just not sure that's what the system needs most right now. YAKNOW?

[Naki]

I'm just not sure that's what the system needs most right now. YAKNOW?

IMHO, Balance + Playable > Canon.

Balance one set of classes and rules first. Add more later. This is the primary problem with That Other Final Fantasy Tabletop. (I refuse to name them. My experiences with the system and community made me drop their system altogether. Just... to clarify that reaction.)

[Mecharious]

Hey Dust, why do Time mages get STR to accuracy AND INT to evasion? That seems like a bit of overkill in conjunction with Mind over Matter (which is like the Black Mage's "Into the Fray" x2)

[Dust]

Mind over Matter isn't affecting damage done as of the update.
It will still give them accuracy, much like Black Mages already use INT for acc.

[Mecharious]

Okay, fair enough.

[wiimanclassic]

Well the system has a few more fanons on another site. Its gone from 1 RP to 4 each with different members and RP styles. I would say this is a hit since other RPs on there don't last.......also a KH RP using FF11 style freelancer rules led to an...interesting character. What other zombie kills you by pelvic thrusts that launch seeds?





Tl:Dr FFD6 is a hit on another site. Also Pelvic Thrusting Zombie.

[Mecharious]

pelvic thrusts that launch seeds?

.........What? Or is my mind just perverted?

[wiimanclassic]

.........What? Or is my mind just perverted?

Seed Canon Blue spell dude.

[Temotei]

Seed Canon Blue spell dude.

I find it humorous in both regards.