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  1. - Top - End - #451
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Blue mages only learn blue magic so no they don't learn white or black magic. Also no they can not choose from any kind other then blue at character creation.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dust View Post
    I feel Huge weapons are non-intuitive right now since their main purpose is actually LESS damage in exchange for utility, which is the opposite of what one would expect. I still want to see the Knockback property on a weapon for balance reasons, and it makes sense to be on the Huge type - I just need to figure out precisely how to work this.
    How about Huge weapons get +1 level of damage unless they use knockback where they get normal damage?
    Old FFD6
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Alternatively you could just make the knockback effect based on a percentage chance of happening.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Yays for first post. In any case, I had a question that I believe was brought up before. Red mage's crimson seal says that it makes your spells to be standard actions instead of slow, however, it doesn't say whether it is just for the next spell or for all spells cast that round (obviously all spells that battle would be completely over powered). While at first this doesn't seem to be a problem, if you were to have haste, then you could cast two spells as both standard actions in one turn. The question would then be if you would need to use crimson seal once or twice to do so (I doubt that there would really be any balance issues with duel casting in one turn since you would just be using up your mp more quickly.) Speaking of haste, it says that it allows you to have an additional standard action on your turn (though with the 3 standard action limit still in effect), however, if I remember correctly, it doesn't say that you could have an additional slow action. Doesn't make sense to me that you could do a standard action but not a slow, so I thought I would point that out. Oh, one more thing. I think wiiman's suggestion of 1d3 for how many strikes the spell comet does would work out. With that it would allow the spell to sometimes do significantly more damage than some elemental spells and sometimes to do siginificantly less. Although this does mean that I have to find another way for my red mage to do over 10k damage in one turn..... (would have used crimson chapeu w/haste w/crimson seal w/favored spell to cast comet 7 times in one turn....ah sweet fast casting, you gotta love it).

    In any case, really good job Dust. This system is incredible.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    I'll try to come back and answer the missed questions later. Right now, it's 3am, and I'd like your opinion.


    One of the things that's been recommended to me time and time again is to change how Job Abilities are formatted. I'm always receptive to these suggestions because I believe that right now there aren't enough options for lots of different character concepts, and frankly, making a character is BORING because of this. As a Gambler, there's 3, maybe 4 abilities I'd take. So I'm always striving to improve upon the Jobs, and my goal for this upcoming update is to almost double the number of options for each Job available.

    The main suggestion is this; instead of having a dozen+ abilities per Job, I should just have 5-6 big categories with 3 lesser abilities in each. You'd have to take ability #1 to take ability #2, and so on. The following snippet would be what this would look like, using part of Mecharious's Chemist homebrew as an example.

    Spoiler
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    This, I'm told over and over, would open up ways for me to enhance current Job Abilities and combine others into a more simplistic format. Some further examples;

    Spoiler
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    I've been unable to make up my mind, so I'm posing the possibility to you. On the one hand, mechanically, it's a superior method. It would allow me to balance abilities better and players would be more inclined to take stuff that doesn't have any immediate minmaxing benefit to get to the stuff they DO want. It means I can include powerful job abilities as the 'third stage' of...whatever I'd call this....and it would let me balance it out by making abilities #1 and #2 slightly less amazing. It would also look more organized and be more memorable than two pages of single-entry abilities for each Job.

    On the other hand, my mind recoils at the fact that whenever I see this done in any tabletop system, I automatically think of WoW talent trees. Furthermore, naming each of the categories would make it near-impossible to stay canon. Take Monk, for example; I could probably combine Shockwave, Shatter Armor, and Haymaker into a single branch of abilities (tweaking each one to make it better or worse than its current incarnation to make it fit the heiarchy), but what would I call it? Iron Fist? SUPER PUNCHY? Nothing canon, at any rate, unless I found an obscure weapon.

    I don't want to present a game where White Mage has, say....HOLY, DISCIPLINE, SHADOW and SUMMONING. While I don't stay true to purely canon FF names and abilities in the book - and I dare anyone to try, yeesh - at least it follows the Final Fantasy Tactics method of picking 'powers'.

    It seems like the more I struggle with balance, the further I drift from FF canon.

    Anyway. Your thoughts.

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    In this case, I don't think it would be a huge hit to the fluff of Final Fantasy. I mean, new stuff is constantly being added to the series, you might as well add your own thematically-appropriate abilities. This new system has the advantage of allowing more powerful abilities to be included if they have heavy prerequisites, and allows more abilities to be present.

    Also, this system isn't exactly copying off WoW... I'm not sure what really makes you think that. Tiered abilities are nothing new and I'm sure have been around for a long time. When you're talking about naming the overall category... well, does it really need to be canon? Iron Fist is a fine name, and, sure, it may not have been in a Final Fantasy game, but it's an umbrella category in this case, so it's not like anyone's going to say "I iron fist him."

    So yeah, I'm fine with the idea.
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    This idea isn't really all that far off from canon anyway. It's very similar to the Sphere Grid, License Board, or the mechanic in XIII, as I understand it. It's not a hit to the fluff, and if it's 'trees' of 3 abilities, then it's certainly more than 3 trees each.

    Having Pre-reqs for abilities is definitely a good idea. Some just don't make sense without having another ability first, and some are downright broken without something to prevent them from being taken at first level (Blue Mages, I'm lookin' at you).

    The other, major, benefit, is being able to scale trees up. Powers that feel weak now can be improved upon as the tree grows, rather than trying to balance what exists. It also furthers canon builds (The Cyan build of Samurai, vs. the Mystic feel from FFT vs. the Gil Toss of V); It serves to make some classes more interesting, and balance out others that are currently sitting in a tier above (Mages are hilariously powerful. White Mages are incredible at resource management, even at level 1; Black Mages were very very strong contenders for top damage; Apparently people have beef with Time Mages...)

    I like this idea, and considered implementing it myself, personally. It's a good change, and definitely helps preserve the feel of FF. Plus, there's no need to go down the 'tree' if you don't want. A generalist character can pick up all of the tree toppers and then work down as they gain levels.

    The final benefit is that it's easier to homebrew for the system this way. New abilities are much easier to add as trees (having a clear theme), than a single ability.

    EDIT: Playability and Balance > Canon. If you need to drift away from canon a bit, do it. Sticking to it perfectly doesn't help the game function, and hinders it instead.
    Last edited by Naki; 2011-02-12 at 12:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Well other buffing a few under powered things I like how things are right now. Maybe just take the strongest abilities and tone them down then some more and have those be tiered. Prevents you from having the strongest stuff and balances out at early levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiimanclassic View Post
    Well other buffing a few under powered things I like how things are right now. Maybe just take the strongest abilities and tone them down then some more and have those be tiered. Prevents you from having the strongest stuff and balances out at early levels.
    What's the point of that? "Nerf the strong stuff and then make it harder to get, but leave the rest of it alone!"

    There are aspects of the game that are inherently non-functional (the Fighter), and others that are broken (Into the Fray + Arcane weapons; Concealed Weapons + Thieves), a lot of the changes that have been proposed fix that.

    You could even further create a bonus for going -down- the tiered abilities. For example, there could be the Buster Basher 'tree'. It is designed for Huge weapons (ala, the Buster Sword), it holds things like the example abilities of Braver, Double Cut, and Finishing Touch. For each step down the tree you take, you gain a +1 damage step bonus with Huge weapons. Making it more lucrative for a Fighter who's put his abilities into the Buster Basher tree to use it's signature weapon. It makes specific weapon types much more viable, and definitely solve the existing problem in that certain weapon types have little to no use for the jobs that have them. It also creates incentive to follow a tree down earlier, than cherry picking abilities from a tree to become the most powerful character.

    The naming problem is easy, for the record. Steal liberally from Limit Breaks and Dissidia combat styles. Cloud's Buster Basher style makes sense, in this case, as the Fighter's Huge weapons tree.

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    I get that the modern game design paradigm often associated with wow can feel oppressive. I was playing a cute iphone RPG the other day, at first I thought it had a charming talent system, it reminded me of paper mario on gamecube, much depth, little complexity. Then I started to think that a lot of the design reminded me of wow and suddenly the cute trivial game became unpalatable. And even kind of like wow. My point: I think this is a subjective thing.


    If the paths are based on present abilities, name each path after the ability.
    Give each step a number instead of a unique name. Counter I, II, III, IV etc.
    If a particular name fits the step really well like say, hamedo you can still give the step the unique name. I think it will still look good.
    When you incorporate a bunch of abilities that don't fit the step format, name the path after a combat action option from the games. The earlier the origin of the name the better. Sabin's Blitz, for example.
    If you have several groupings, Blitz I, II, III, IV, ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mint View Post
    I get that the modern game design paradigm often associated with wow can feel oppressive. I was playing a cute iphone RPG the other day, at first I thought it had a charming talent system, it reminded me of paper mario on gamecube, much depth, little complexity. Then I started to think that a lot of the design reminded me of wow and suddenly the cute trivial game became unpalatable. And even kind of like wow. My point: I think this is a subjective thing.


    If the paths are based on present abilities, name each path after the ability.
    Give each step a number instead of a unique name. Counter I, II, III, IV etc.
    If a particular name fits the step really well like say, hamedo you can still give the step the unique name. I think it will still look good.
    When you incorporate a bunch of abilities that don't fit the step format, name the path after a combat action option from the games. The earlier the origin of the name the better. Sabin's Blitz, for example.
    If you have several groupings, Blitz I, II, III, IV, ...
    Except that it breaks immersion, frankly. Even in Canon, it has gotten away from this for that exact reason. Sabin never called out "Aurabolt V!" when he has a higher level. Just the same reason that Fire I, II, III, IV were given the suffixes of -a, -ra,-ga, and -ja. It looks cleaner, and makes sense. If verbal components are used, they just feel more correct. We know what they really mean, but we don't think about it as much.

    The only instance of numbers in Canon are in Omnislash v.5 (Or v.6, in AC:Complete), and that directly refers to a developer joke, in that Omnislash was redesigned 5 times before they settled on a cinematic for it that they liked, and can easily be taken that Cloud, himself, redesigned it that many times.

    The 'Oh no, trees look like WoW...!' is an unfortunate thing, but they've existed forever. Long before WoW. They're prevalent in D&D (Feat tree progression, for example), and they're a fairly common RPG element (Tales of, for example, has a usage-based ability progression system; Phantasia predates WoW by forever.) They're still used by modern games, as RPG elements slowly infect every style of gaming (Mass Effect and Dead Space use a customization system very similar to what's proposed here; Borderlands has a Character Skill tree, not even bothering to rename it.)

    It's really only subjective because people wish it to be. They see "Ability Tree" and suddenly have WoW flashbacks like it was 'Nam, and they're still suffering PTSD. There's nothing wrong with this system. Just because you want to view it was 'WoW does it though!' doesn't make it suddenly less valid.

    EDIT: Just to further make the 'Just because WoW does it!' as invalid: WoW does the following: Summoning demons, enslaving demons, casting magic, utilizing the Elements as a power source, utilizing demons as a power source, utilizing the Arcane as a power source, defeating corrupted beings (Illidan, Old Ones/Lovecraftian Horrors, Kael'thas/beings ruined by desire for power), defeating demons summoned from far realms, fighting undead, defeating Liches, killing masters of undeath, fighting giants, helping giants, helping trees, preserving nature, destroying nature, helping dragons, killing dragons, enslaving dragons, wars, stopping coups, reclaiming ancestral homes, defiling cities, slaughtering innocents.

    That's just from actual plot within the game itself. I'm pretty sure that covers just about every game plot ever. By your 'subjective' opinion that 'because WoW did it, it's now not any fun', I should have ruined nearly every game ever. You're welcome.

    EDIT2: >_> Previous edit came off as snark. Sorry. But more relatedly, another reason(s) was brought up in discussion on the number naming pattern.

    It's boring, first of all. There's no interesting part of 'Blitz II!', it's just Blitz, only slightly better! Secondly, it's lazy. Blitz II could easily be "Haymaker", or "Pummel", or "Beat Rush". Just making it Blitz II means you're not actually giving a damn about the canon and what's there to use. Thirdly, and most importantly, it reflects that you're learning new ways to punch people. Names reflect this best. Blitz II just means you got better as using Blitz. Beat Rush feels like you gained some aptitude in your combos as a whole.
    Last edited by Naki; 2011-02-12 at 04:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
    Except that it breaks immersion, frankly. Even in Canon, it has gotten away from this for that exact reason. Sabin never called out "Aurabolt V!" when he has a higher level. Just the same reason that Fire I, II, III, IV were given the suffixes of -a, -ra,-ga, and -ja. It looks cleaner, and makes sense. If verbal components are used, they just feel more correct. We know what they really mean, but we don't think about it as much.
    I will clarify what I meant.
    In the case when a set of abilities that are to be linked don't share a cohesive naming convention but you want a name for their set:

    Say there are six abilities. Let a tree contain three abilities.
    The abilities have canon names.
    Let Blitz I contain the set of the first three abilities.
    Let Blitz II contain the set of the next three abilities.
    For a more passive or cohesive tree, you call it Magic Seal I, II, III etc.
    Or Counter I, II, Hamedo.

    That is the general idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post

    The 'Oh no, trees look like WoW...!' is an unfortunate thing, but they've existed forever. Long before WoW. They're prevalent in D&D (Feat tree progression, for example), and they're a fairly common RPG element (Tales of, for example, has a usage-based ability progression system; Phantasia predates WoW by forever.) They're still used by modern games, as RPG elements slowly infect every style of gaming (Mass Effect and Dead Space use a customization system very similar to what's proposed here; Borderlands has a Character Skill tree, not even bothering to rename it.)

    It's really only subjective because people wish it to be. They see "Ability Tree" and suddenly have WoW flashbacks like it was 'Nam, and they're still suffering PTSD. There's nothing wrong with this system. Just because you want to view it was 'WoW does it though!' doesn't make it suddenly less valid.
    Trees are not at issue. It is the design of the trees themselves. I'd have to think about a bit more to state clearly what that design entails. Which is kind of my point. You start seeing wow in things -> get a tinge of design claustrophobia -> but really, it is probably just in your head.
    It is there because you are in a head space to find it there. Subjective. blarghh

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Dang. Trees would be really sweet. As to the problem of naming, I'm honestly surprised that such a fuss has been made about it instead of people trying to come up with more abilities for each of the classes. Honestly, people, there are nineteen different classes in this game. NINETEEN!!!!! Do you know how many abilities there are in each class? If I'm not mistaken, nine per class. That makes close to two hundred different abilities. Now I do understand that not all of those abilities would have trees of their own (some would really make sense to combine) but that still leaves us with a lot of abilities to come up with. Again, I understand this problem of lack of canon names, but since this isn't an official final fantasy game, I think that a little straying from canon is to be expected (especially since most of the canon stuff should be happening from the roleplaying in game, right?). Personally, I think that finding new names for abilities would be easier than coming up with the new abilities themselves. All in all, I'm in favor of the idea of ability trees, and I'm more than willing to put in some effort to help out.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Weapon names can be found here. Look here for ability names.

    You may already be using these sources; if so, just come up with your own names if they sound alright. It's not a really big deal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mint View Post
    I will clarify what I meant.
    In the case when a set of abilities that are to be linked don't share a cohesive naming convention but you want a name for their set:

    Say there are six abilities. Let a tree contain three abilities.
    The abilities have canon names.
    Let Blitz I contain the set of the first three abilities.
    Let Blitz II contain the set of the next three abilities.
    For a more passive or cohesive tree, you call it Magic Seal I, II, III etc.
    Or Counter I, II, Hamedo.

    That is the general idea.
    Ah, I see. I'm still not so sure about that, but eh.

    On that, I thought about my above suggestion for 'following trees', and realized that it's probably not the best way, but rather to grant secondary bonuses to some abilities if weapon types are used. I sat down, and thought about it, and came up with 2 example trees: Swordplay and Basher. Based on Tidus and Cloud, respectively; I also considered a new method of making attacks stand out, and dropping the percentages effectively, using the Damage Step.

    Swordplay
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    Quick Hit [Instant, Single] (1) - You make a normal attack, as an Instant action on your turn, once per round. This attack deals -1 damage step, and cannot trigger limit breaks.
    While equipped with a single Blade-type weapon, you deal +1 damage step with all attack actions.
    Double-Cut [Standard, Single] (2) - You make two normal attacks against a single target. If successful, these attacks deal deal half damage each, but may apply any weapon abilities once for each successful attack. Each attack may become a critical, but cannot trigger a limit break. You may use this once per turn, no matter how many standard actions you have.
    If you use a single Blade-type weapon when making this attack, you deal normal damage per attack, instead of half.
    Mirror Movement [Passive] (3) - You gain an additional standard action per turn (up to the normal maximum of 3).
    Additionally, you may use Double-Cut a second time in a turn, but no more than twice per turn.


    As a quick breakdown, I didn't use the "X times per session" because I don't like the mechanic, personally. I understand it's a balancing factor, but it's also not canon, and makes less sense as you follow trees down. The fact that Ability 1 can be used as many times as Ability 3 doesn't really work, especially if Ability 3 is twice as powerful! Magic-based attacks (Swordskills on the DK, for example) should really have an MP cost, balancing it's cost against the effect gained. Instead, I balanced them against normal attacks given that none of these can ever trigger limit breaks. Meaning, if you want to use one and spam these attacks, you have to spend precious Destiny. That's a big opportunity cost, in my opinion. Stealth-edit: It was pointed out that I missed the secondary point of "Session Length", this is variable, and largely unquantifiable. On a table, or live-gaming (IRC, Maptools, etc), it's easy to determine the end of a session, but it also provides a metagame break, wherein "How much longer do I have until the end of the session? Should I use up all of my powers before then as not to waste?"; however, in the case of PbP Sessions don't exist. The game simply doesn't have an nightly 'end point', as shown in previous posts, such as the KH game defining a session as "A full world." Abilities need discrete, consistant boundaries on usage. "Session" is not consistant enough. Look at Scenes, from Storyteller. They're clearly within the intent, and much more easily defined.

    Quick Hit is the Fighter's upgrade of the Freelancer's version. It reduces the damage step by one, meaning Concealed, Huge and Reach all deal 2d6 at tier 1, and one step lower in all other tiers, whereas Blades will deal normal damage. Double Cut, as continuing down the Blades tree, offers up the bonus of being able to apply two status effects, or rather, two chances to apply any effects. Which increases the likelihood of application greatly. It's a good trade off for damage, and matches a normal attack. Unless you're continuing down the Blades path and using it's appropriate weapon. In which it's a significant damage increase, with the same trade off: No limit triggering. It's useful at high HP, and less so at lower HP. Mirror Movement is straight from Tidus, and is the Caladbolg Equipped Dissidia effect from his EX-mode. Essentially, Auto-Haste. It's a great effect, and it ends the tree with giving the Fighter access to Cyan's Quadra-Slice/Slam ability (In essence). The tree, as whole, is cohesive, it's canon, and if offers obvious benefits for the Fighter to use a single weapon.

    And now:

    Basher
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    Braver [Slow, Single] (1) - Make a normal attack action. If successful, deal normal damage, and +1 extra Damage Steps. This ability cannot trigger limit breaks, but may become a critical hit as normal. If used with a Huge weapon, increase the extra damage by 1.
    Rend [Passive] (2) - All single-target, normal attack actions with a Huge weapon ignore half of the target's ARM.
    Finishing Touch [Slow, Single] (3) - Make a normal attack action. If successful, deal normal damage, and +2 extra damage steps, and cause a short range Knockback. If using a Huge-type weapon, the knockback effect is, instead, medium range, and the extra damage step is increased by 1.
    Additionally, while equipped with a Huge-type weapon, you deal +1 damage step on all attack actions.


    Basher is clearly the heavy-damage tree, using the Huge weapon. It's damage is best early-game, rather than late (Braver is 300% damage at Tier 1, at Legendary, it's only 125%; Finishing Touch is 150 at Legendary, and 400% at Tier 1), but it scales better with stats, and other Damage Step abilities (Trauma). It also introduces a different way to handle abilities with damage increases. It's also more effective, as it effects the raw stats, rather than the damage as a whole, making it easier to track. Braver, with a Huge weapon, always does (PWRx3)+2d6 at Tier 1, and scales appropriately. This is better than ((PWRx1)+2d6)*2, which makes higher tier weapons insanely powerful (Legendaries deal PWRx16 on Wild Swing! x24 if it crits. D: )

    Rend is the passive bonus for going up the tree. It has one, considerably powerful effect: 1/2 ARM on attacks, provided you hit a single target. That's a pretty good reason for Fighters to use Huge weapons, and something no one else can match. It does, however, offer nothing to non-Huge wielders, which I'm not satisfied with. A dead ability is bad, especially considering Finishing Touch has benefits for being used with Huge weapons. FT also has the same benefits as braver, being useful early, and less powerful later. Which I can live with, due to it having the secondary effect of +1 for Huge.

    It makes Basher, like Swordplay, a complete, concise and canon tree for the Fighter utilizing Huge weapons. It offers clear bonuses for Huge weapon users, and at the same time, is still mostly functional (Rend.... >_>) for non-Huge weapon users.

    These are just example trees, and not actual suggestions. Perhaps, best for thought, and how to treat tress for all jobs. Relatedly: Some abilities currently are best treated as solo-effects, and cannot be easily grouped (High Jump, Into the Fray, Mind Over Matter), don't create a treat around them. It serves to weaken them, and like Elemental Seal, isn't worth spending 3 abilities on for limited usage.
    Last edited by Naki; 2011-02-14 at 06:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Lots to think about there, Naki/everyone, and much obliged.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    I'll make a note here that I think with the change from STR to PWR (since the post by Naki reminded me of it) should only affect damage and not accuracy, unless that was already the case in which case I should be ignored
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
    The only instance of numbers in Canon are in Omnislash v.5 (Or v.6, in AC:Complete)...
    In Final Fantasy VII, spells were Fire, Fire2, and Fire3, Ice, Ice2, and Ice3, Bolt, Bolt2, and Bolt3, Comet and Comet2, Life and Life2, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    In Final Fantasy VII, spells were Fire, Fire2, and Fire3, Ice, Ice2, and Ice3, Bolt, Bolt2, and Bolt3, Comet and Comet2, Life and Life2, etc.
    And are -a, -ga, -ja in the Japanese. All future updates to pre VII games have fixed this. Crisis Core, and DoC both use this format. The only reason VII still has it legacy, and the fact that it has not seen an update yet.

    EDIT: To solve the secondary problem would come up here: Life 2 would have a different name. Likely "Arise", and Comet2 would likely need a different name entirely, due to it's natural successor (Meteor) being a planetary threat in VII.

    EDIT2: Before Crisis made Comet2 into Cometeo. Proving my point....
    Last edited by Naki; 2011-02-17 at 06:25 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #470
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    I don't mind having multiple levels of spells (such as fire 1,2,3 or -a, -ga, -ja) but please don't make the job abilities follow this format. I really enjoy the fact that in FFd6 there aren't any progress ability systems, unless the player chooses to make that ability more powerful; I.E. Black Mage takings specialization multiple times. It's nice to have chosen a job ability and be done with it. Having multiple levels means its potential diminishes as the characters grow stronger and encounters become more difficult.

    Skill trees are a nice touch and wouldn't mind these at all. They don't force players to spend multiple points in the same skill, rather it allows them to specialize in key areas or to diversify as they see fit.

  21. - Top - End - #471
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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    I noticed on the level up part of the manual it says at level 10 you get a new trait. But it is never explained what a trait is. Anyone know?

  22. - Top - End - #472
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    Mecharious's Avatar

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    That was removed in the new version.
    Check out the Final Fantasy d6 System by Dust.
    Tophat imp avatar by Darwin. (Imps are DEVILS not demons)

  23. - Top - End - #473
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    Dust's Avatar

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Still churning away at this. Next big version in about a month or so.

    Big changes;
    - Abilities now follow the three-step method as discussed previously. This has led to a restructuring and tweaking of every ability currently in the system, and the addition of lots more.
    - The base attributes are now Power (PWR), Resolve (RES), Dexterity (DEX) and Mind (MND), and each one is important for aspects of every job class.
    - Further streamlining of the rules so things stay intuitive and fast-paced.
    - Fixes for all the problems discussed previously, as well as the incorporation of a handful of Homebrew.
    Last edited by Dust; 2011-02-26 at 07:29 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #474
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dust View Post
    - The base attributes are now Power (PWR), Resolve (RES), Dexterity (DEX) and Mind (MND), and each one is important for aspects of every job class.
    Can we get a preview of how this is going to work? How does Resolve and Mind effect a Fighter, for example? If it's still ability uses/session, Passives continue to be the reigning king, and they'll still be largely ignored, I would imagine.

  25. - Top - End - #475
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    say are skills based on your starting INT or current INT? current would make calcs easier...

    also... I really liked the 5 attribute system... oh well, can't have everything.
    Last edited by steelsmiter; 2011-02-28 at 06:43 PM.
    Old FFD6
    Spoiler
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    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/59000492/Old%20FFd6.zip

  26. - Top - End - #476
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    If I wanted to make a "quirky mini boss squad" to fight the players should I still use the Monster creator, or should I just use the standard character builder? Monster creator doesn't seem to allow for jobs, and I'd want the mini boss squad to have jobs that rivaled my players jobs (ie. The party is Pali/Black Mage/Geomancer, the mbs would be Dark Knight/White Mage/Engineer).

    Also I sent this in pm to Dust, but I might as well ask it here.

    My understanding of Jump is that, unlike other slow actions it starts on the turn it is used, and then resolves on the next turn. One of my players abused this last night by jumping one turn, landing the next, attacking as an instant action, and then jumping. The Dragoon, being immune to everything but group spells, is practically invincible unless I pit the group against some high leveled mages.

    I'm going to assume I am misreading the spell. Does the physical jump itself act as a slow action?

    Basically Jump would either be

    1. Player declares they are using Jump. They jump into the air.
    2. Enemies go.
    3. Player lands, attacks, then jumps.

    or

    1. Player declared they are using Jump.
    2. Enemies go.
    3. Player jumps into the air.
    4. Enemies go.
    5. Player lands and attacks.

    Or is it neither of those?

  27. - Top - End - #477
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Quote Originally Posted by Con_Brio1993 View Post
    If I wanted to make a "quirky mini boss squad" to fight the players should I still use the Monster creator, or should I just use the standard character builder? Monster creator doesn't seem to allow for jobs, and I'd want the mini boss squad to have jobs that rivaled my players jobs (ie. The party is Pali/Black Mage/Geomancer, the mbs would be Dark Knight/White Mage/Engineer).

    Also I sent this in pm to Dust, but I might as well ask it here.

    My understanding of Jump is that, unlike other slow actions it starts on the turn it is used, and then resolves on the next turn. One of my players abused this last night by jumping one turn, landing the next, attacking as an instant action, and then jumping. The Dragoon, being immune to everything but group spells, is practically invincible unless I pit the group against some high leveled mages.

    I'm going to assume I am misreading the spell. Does the physical jump itself act as a slow action?

    Basically Jump would either be

    1. Player declares they are using Jump. They jump into the air.
    2. Enemies go.
    3. Player lands, attacks, then jumps.

    or

    1. Player declared they are using Jump.
    2. Enemies go.
    3. Player jumps into the air.
    4. Enemies go.
    5. Player lands and attacks.

    Or is it neither of those?
    It's the former. However, he's not invincible. Make use of the Group targeting feature (of any range, thanks to Jump's poor wording. Short range group attacks, ho! Watch your players headdesk in frustration as you try to justify it!), and watch him take damage with the party. Jump has many other obvious downsides, in that it doesn't auto-hit. It doesn't crit, and it definitely cannot trigger limit breaks. While he's avoiding that damage, he's also not making up for the slack of missed opportunities.

    EDIT: I missed that you did point out the group targeting; however, it's not really limited to high level mages. Anything that group targets can do it.

    As for your first question, I haven't looked too much into monster creation, as of yet, but I believe they can gain job abilities. Create a monster with Paladin abilities, or White Magic shouldn't be too hard. Even if it isn't possible, it's always possible to create abilities that function the same way (if not entirely counter-intuitive).
    Last edited by Naki; 2011-03-02 at 10:10 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #478
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
    It's the former. However, he's not invincible. Make use of the Group targeting feature (of any range, thanks to Jump's poor wording. Short range group attacks, ho! Watch your players headdesk in frustration as you try to justify it!), and watch him take damage with the party. Jump has many other obvious downsides, in that it doesn't auto-hit. It doesn't crit, and it definitely cannot trigger limit breaks. While he's avoiding that damage, he's also not making up for the slack of missed opportunities.
    Not too many blue spells are group attacks though, and it seems odd that every enemy would have a group attack. Meanwhile there is a thief in my party who is pretty much min maxed meaning that most group attacks are going to miss the party.

    Also he has high jump and would be at Long Range. So wouldn't only Ranged group attacks be able to hit him? And they'd take a -4 Acc penalty, right?
    Last edited by Con_Brio1993; 2011-03-03 at 05:47 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #479
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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    I say use rule 0 and declare no jumping the same turn you land.


    BTW Wrote a small guide to using FFd6 for those wanting to use it elsewhere.

    Spoiler
    Show

    Ok you may be wondering what FFD6 is. Its a system to use for RPs to add a little more realism, realism in that you can't just say you hit with every attack.

    Now the download link is right here.
    (insert link)
    Now for an explanation for how to build an FFd6 character. You just need to first pick a race found in chapter 2, pick a job from chapter 3, then assign your attribute points.Your point total is equal to 29+your level. You receive an attribute point at every level and should the one running the game let you at every level thats a multiple of 3.

    For every 3 points you put in an attribute 1 point goes in its rating. Your rating determines how many points you can put in a skill. Your rating +1 is the max for skills using that stat. For ones using multiple ones use the higher. For example the Acting skill. It uses spirit(spr) to determine its max. If you have 12 spirit you have a rating of 4. That means you can have 5 in your acting.

    Characters receive one skill point at each level up. At the start of the game, a newly-created character receives the number of skill points listed by their job, as well as an additional +1 for every point of INT they possesses. I kinda forgot this part before... You can find a jobs amount of skill points on its page in the manual.


    Next you need to figure out your HP and MP(if you use MP). The sheet I give has how to find it.
    After that your evasion(eva) and accuracy(acc). Check your class page.

    Then your armor and magic armor. Based on if you use light medium or heavy. Sheet has short info on it.

    Now you just need to pick your abilities. The page right after your class page has your ability list. Chapter 4 has the shared abilities anyone can use. Make sure to add your epic and innate abilities to your sheet then add 2 more from the parts I mentioned. To use your epic you must spend 3 points of destiny. Destiny is earned by beating bosses, completing goals and other important things.


    If you use magic now is the time to pick it. You gain spells based on a chart like this one.

    Spell Rank.....Level
    1................1, 1, 3, 4, 5
    2................6, 8, 10, 12
    3................14, 16, 19
    4.................21, 24, 27
    5.................28, 30

    That is a time mages spell progression. You gain a spell of the listed rank(1-5) at every level listed. So at level 1 you gain 2 rank 1 spells. Check the class page for other classes progression.

    In a fight you roll 2d6+ ether your strength,dex,int or spirit based on your weapon. Bladed(swords and such), Huge(buster swords and other overly large things), Reach(spears,chains, and whips), Brawl(fists and blunt weapons) and Arcane(staffs, staves, and stuff) when not using its special ability use strength. Concealed(knives, daggers, and such), Ranged(guns, bows, and stuff) use dex.


    Now on weapon special abilities.
    Bladed weapons can use Piercing Strike once per session(ask your DM about how long a session is) which lets it ignore the enemies armor.

    Arcane have Imbued and can use Int or Spr to attack but do half damage. If it crits they can cast a free spell instantly.

    Ranged can just hit at mid range or at long at -4 penalty.

    Huge can use Heavy Swing leting you do half damage but knock the target back a short distance.(knock back disrupts spell casting and other slow actions)

    Concealed have Sneak Attack allowing your first attack in a battle to do an additional damage step and can reroll if they miss that first attack. (damage step is equal to a weapons a tier. You multiply the stat used for damage by the damage step.)

    Reach have Critical Attack making it so they crit on a combined die result of 11 or 12 instead of 12(more likely to crit)

    Brawl have Counter Attack letting you counter attack when hit from short range..no you can't counter a counter, a counter can't be a limit break and you can't counter magic.


    You can tell if you hit by using your characters Acc+2d6. If the result is equal to or more then your enemies eva you hit. For example lets say I have 10 strength and 5 acc and attack an enemy with 10 evasion.
    (insert result of 15) This is my attack roll. Subtract the difference between your strength(or dex or what ever was used) and acc. If that ammount is equal to or higher then the mosters eva you hit.

    I would need for example a 15 to hit. 10-5 is 5. So I would need to roll at least a total of 5. Therefore 15.

    The enemies attacking you works the same.
    Magic auto hits.

    The DM is who ever is running the RP.

    Example Sheet
    Spoiler
    Show
    NAME:
    RACE AND JOB:
    LEVEL:



    HP:
    To calculate HP, add your VIT score with the HP/Level granted by your Job(humes add 3 to this), and multiply the total by your character level. Then, add 10.

    MP:
    To calculate MP, add your INT score with the MP/Level granted by your Job, and multiply the total by your character level.
    Note that any Job without an MP Modifier has zero MP, regardless of INT.



    ARM:
    M.ARM:
    EVA:
    Your job page says how to find it.
    Base ACC:
    See eva.

    Attributes
    STR:
    DEX:
    VIT:
    INT:
    SPR:



    Weapon Name
    Attack Type
    Accuracy
    Damage
    Special Properties
    Tier


    ABILITIES



    ARMOR AND ACCESSORY
    Will start with Cotton Robe(light armor. 2 arm 6 m arm), Leather Outfit(medium 4 arm and m arm, or Chain Vest(heavy. 6 arm, 2 marm.)
    INVENTORY(10 Items Max)


    SKILLS
    Athletics (DEX)
    Acting (SPR)
    Awareness (INT)
    Disguise (SPR / INT)
    Escape (DEX)
    Healing (INT)
    Inquiry (INT / SPR)
    Language (INT)
    Lore: ______ (INT)
    Lore: ______ (INT)
    Negotiation (SPR)
    Perform (SPR)
    Riding (DEX / SPR)
    Stealth (DEX)
    Survival (INT)
    Swimming (STR / DEX)
    Synthesis: ______ (INT)
    Systems (INT)
    Thievery (DEX)
    Trade (SPR)
    Vehicles (DEX)




    TASK DIFFICULTY
    Elementary: 5
    Easy: 7
    Moderate: 9
    Challenging: 11
    Impressive: 13
    Heroic: 15
    Godlike: 20
    Impossible: 30
    Just a point of reference for later.


    EXPERIENCE AND WEALTH
    EXP
    Destiny You earn this by completing your goals and doing things the DM deem good enough to get it.
    Gil Start with how ever much the DM says.

    BIO
    Gender:
    Age:
    Weight:
    Birthdate:
    Height:
    Hometown:
    Features:

    GOALS
    #1:
    #2:
    #3:
    Life Goal:
    Just everyday goals and 1 goal that is very hard to achieve.


    LIMIT BREAKS
    Name Level Description
    5
    15
    25
    PM me at level 5 for help.


    MAGIC
    Name (example, Fire)
    Rank (1)
    MP Cost (6)
    Description (A small ball of fire hits them...this part is optional. Just put how much damage it can do.)

    Go to chapter 7 if your a class with magic.
    Last edited by wiimanclassic; 2011-03-03 at 08:18 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #480
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Quote Originally Posted by Con_Brio1993 View Post
    Not too many blue spells are group attacks though, and it seems odd that every enemy would have a group attack. Meanwhile there is a thief in my party who is pretty much min maxed meaning that most group attacks are going to miss the party.

    Also he has high jump and would be at Long Range. So wouldn't only Ranged group attacks be able to hit him? And they'd take a -4 Acc penalty, right?
    Alas, Group Comp has you screwed. They'll steamroll encounters forever, thanks to the Thief being broken as-is, and Jump's invulnerability.

    The height of the Jump, by RAW, doesn't matter. Short Range Group limits can knock a Dragoon out of the air. Makes sense? Not really. It's been pointed out over and over that Jump is somewhere between "Hilariously useless" or "Incredibly overpowered". A Provoke Dragoon will never use Jump, because it's terrible and offers 0 benefit to them, whereas, in your case, you have a Thief who basically has granted the party invincibility to Group attacks, and thus, Jump is the bestest ability ever!

    All I can say is sigh and bear with it until Dust churns out the next update and all of these things are (hopefully) fixed.

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