Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

[louiscrites]

Great looking system! The only thing that bugged me was having only 5 tiers of magic. Some of the spell groupings really jar me (nuke and osmose in the same tier? o.O) and I was wondering why this was done? Seems easy enough to hack it into 8, since the MP costs are already all over the place.

[Mulcibaer]

Crap, forgot what I wanted to say.

I took a look at spells and spell level stuff, and these are my thoughts.
There are a few spells in the series that are made into abilities (looking at ninja abilities and Paladin's Astra. Spells could be split into single and group targets, increasing the raw number of spells. There could be longer lasting versions /harder to resist versions of status ailment spells. Any more thoughts?

[wiimanclassic]

Crap, forgot what I wanted to say.

I took a look at spells and spell level stuff, and these are my thoughts.
There are a few spells in the series that are made into abilities (looking at ninja abilities and Paladin's Astra. Spells could be split into single and group targets, increasing the raw number of spells. There could be longer lasting versions /harder to resist versions of status ailment spells. Any more thoughts?

Well maybe some system where you can ether pay double mp to make a singe a group spell or do 2/3s damage rounded down for a group target on a single target spell ?

[Story Time]

Crap, forgot what I wanted to say.

I took a look at spells and spell level stuff, and these are my thoughts.
There are a few spells in the series that are made into abilities (looking at ninja abilities and Paladin's Astra. Spells could be split into single and group targets, increasing the raw number of spells. There could be longer lasting versions /harder to resist versions of status ailment spells. Any more thoughts?

To my own personal bias this seems like a good idea in principle. In practice, though, and I do mean this politely, I think the idea would disrupt the structure of an already good system. Simplicity is Elegance. Could Ninja Disciplines be folded into the Arts and Black Disciplines? Certainly, but that may not improve the already dynamic and various system.

"Quantity is inferior to Quality." I would, honestly, appreciate a home-brew with an example of your system idea and suggestions of how to play its implementation. Until then, it is not so difficult to add a little note at the top of each ability which states how that ability could target an adversary.

Oh, wait... Most of them do that.


Also, welcome to the forum. Please enjoy your stay.

[Dust]

A vague and general question; would you support the abolishment of the experience system if it made for a slightly better book, or is gaining those points too canon to the FF series that it would hurt the 'feel' of things too much?

Edit: I also know there's a few questions that await an answer, and I'll get to those soon.

[CaeruliusVentus]

I think it may come down to a particular preference of whoever is running the game. Personally, in any 3.5 edition game I run, I get rid of xp entirely and just level up every few sessions. This tends to work pretty well, and your previous edition was moving in that direction already.
If xp is too canon for FF based games to get rid of, then grinding through random battles to get the xp should be included too.

[wiimanclassic]

Include it as a alternate rules just incase someone wants it. Then again you already include a no exp option in the newest(finished) edition, where you just level when the plot demands.

[Story Time]

A vague and general question; would you support the abolishment of the experience system if it made for a slightly better book, or is gaining those points too canon to the FF series that it would hurt the 'feel' of things too much?

What a difficult question... It...

First and foremost Dust, the game is produced by you and only your decision is really the most important one about it. If you want to remove the Experience System and choose some other form of resolution for a simpler style of game play then that is what you must do. You should do as your conscience and sensibilities guide you.

Since you are asking for opinions, mine is that of the Final Fantasy, Team Menu Interface. That graphical user interface for quite some time has allowed Players to bring up the Status sheets of their characters and physically look at how much experience their character had and then to calculate, or look depending on the menu, at the amount of experience remaining until their character increased in level.

Personally? I like to see the numbers and believe their presence is part of the genre of Final Fantasy. Eliminating them, I feel, would distance any game from the core style of play of Final Fantasy. There are plenty of Experience-less games out there to choose from if some Player wanted that style of play.

Therefore, I feel that the following is the best answer:

Include it as a alternate rules just incase someone wants it. Then again you already include a no exp option in the newest(finished) edition, where you just level when the plot demands.

GameMasters who wish to obviate Experience Points will do so at their own whims. Those who wish to do so are likely competent enough to run their own games in whatever manner they choose. Less experienced GameMasters may not be so fortunate and those who might fit in the Hard-Core and Purist affiliations may find the complete lack of an Experience System to be...too far removed from the canon genre to play your game.

And...it really is a good manual that you have put together even without all of the improvements that we have yet to see, Dust.

Therefore to sum up: Do as you feel that you need to. If our opinions hold value in your estimation then so be it. In the end, one more change puts off the Final Release of your material.

[steelsmiter]

A vague and general question; would you support the abolishment of the experience system if it made for a slightly better book, or is gaining those points too canon to the FF series that it would hurt the 'feel' of things too much?

Edit: I also know there's a few questions that await an answer, and I'll get to those soon.

it would be neat if it were an 'alternate' set of rules somewhat like a sphere grid, but such things require points and emphasize less a requirement of levels which the exact opposite of what you seem to want to do in abolishing the experience requirement. As it is the experience requirement isn't too strict... do cool stuff, fight bad munsters... fight badder munsters to get moar points rraaah!

levels could be abolished to make everything a shared ability including extra attribute levels and hit point increases. everything would then have an EXP cost which thereagain goes against what seems to be your purpose... is any of the above coherant? I was writing what I felt more than trying to separate the jumble of thought.

[andhaira]

Quick question:

What is the maximum level possible in the 2d6 RPG?

[Sipex]

In response to Dust's xp question.

While I wouldn't say no to different level up rules (ie: No exp) I also feel it's something which should at least be included.

Even if you just give a baseline for people to make their own maths like "Every 10 of-level battles the party should be gaining enough xp to level up"

Or just leave the last version with XP worked in available that way people can refer to previous versions for XP rules/ideas

[louiscrites]

A vague and general question; would you support the abolishment of the experience system if it made for a slightly better book, or is gaining those points too canon to the FF series that it would hurt the 'feel' of things too much?

Edit: I also know there's a few questions that await an answer, and I'll get to those soon.

Your current XP system is already so abstract that I'm having trouble envisioning a scenario where taking it out would improve anything. At the least I'd keep it in a sidebar, I can't see it hurting anything just by existing in the book.

Could you explain how it would make things better? Is there some sort of alternate advancement system or what?

[louiscrites]

sphere grid

Now that would be cool.

Quick question:

What is the maximum level possible in the 2d6 RPG?

I believe it is 30.

[wiimanclassic]

Now that would be cool.



I believe it is 30.

Well you can go higher, you just need to make the monsters past that your self or start throwing bosses around like candy.

"Yes we beat Exdeath last week and chaos yesterday, why do you ask?"

[Dust]

A LOT of people are requesting the Holy Swordsman, which is interesting to me because I've always envisioned it to simply be the Paladin. In response, the current version of the holy warrior is getting a lot more flash and bang. I'm worried Paladin is actually verging into dangerously overpowered territory, but it's something I'll have to just keep an eye on.

At this point lots of stuff is finished and ready for release, I'm just waiting for permissions for pictures, a couple commissioned pieces, and was stalling for time in hopes I could get the Final Fantasy XIV segment included, but information there is still coming sparsely. I also need to re-do the entire sample bestiary to be in line with the new rules, but that's a massive task. I also wanted to do a few racial-specific Jobs for the Ivalician games simply because Kobold-Bard's Moogle Knight inspired me so much, but that may end up just being a pipe dream.

The problem with the EXP system right now is;
a) It's pointlessly complicated. Attribute every X levels, job ability every X levels, limit break every X levels, memorize those values. There's other stuff that needs to be complex in this system, and this isn't it.
b) It's non-canonical. The max level for FF heroes is, as well all know, 99. It feels too much like D&D currently, even though I picked the level cap of 30 before 4e was released. In games that don't have the cap of 99, they have a much smaller number or no number at all.
c) Levelling up feels too common, happening after every game or two, and doing all the piddly math takes a lot of the 'awesome' factor out of it.

The new version will see characters have a maximum Job Level from 1 to 8 ("Master"), like the more traditional Tactics games. Each level-up includes a slew of bonuses based on your current Job, such as flat attributes, multiple spells, and always at least one ability.

I really haven't reworked the spells at all short of trying to re-adjust the MP costs, and if that's a concern you have with the system, it unfortunately won't be addressed in this next big massive update. The only notable change is how most spells can now be either single-target or group-target without the need for getting two different spells, which is something I should have been doing anyway.

I do intend on doing a big open playtest before things get finalized, and even planning on running a game here on GiTP as well on Rpol myself immediately after Christmas.

[Blisstake]

Huh, I never really had a problem with the exp system, but the new system sounds very interesting, so can't wait for that.

Thanks for putting so much work into this

[Story Time]

I agree. My own view is that the experience system is relatively simple compared to other systems. It somewhat reminds me of Savage Worlds. Making a small reference sheet of the experience table was not difficult for me and, as a fact, was one of the reasons I liked this system so much.

Strangely, I had no problem accepting a Maximum Level Limit of thirty. Reaching ninety-nine seemed more arduous than small numbers of experience gathering together to advance a character every few ( quirky ) levels. The issue of canonisity is...accurate, but also trivial enough in my bias to be forgiven easily.

Again, thank you, Dust, for continuing with your project. Thank you for your up-date post. I look forward to inspecting what will come.

[Kobold-Bard]

Glad the Moogle Knight served a small purpose

Your vague descriptions of the new system have me intrigued. I look forward to the update.

[Mono Vertigo]

For what it's worth, I had no issue with the XP system or the level limit either, but hey, your system.

[wiimanclassic]

Maybe just push it into an optional rules area or something, the exp thing I mean. It works well enough.....and move banga to the races section. Sure the bonus they get isn't as good but its awesome in a boss fight.

[Kobold-Bard]

I know it will be irrelevant come the new version, but I've made a Dissidia style Summoner class that I think everyone should check out & offer advice about.

[CaeruliusVentus]

Curious to see the specifics, but I really like the sound of the new class/level system.

Thanks for doing all of this work.

[Brontes]

Looking forward to its release, I've been dying to play in a game with some stamina to it. Hopefully one will allow Bangaa or Nu Mou.

Edit: I'd also be happy to volunteer myself as a proofreader. It's good practice for my line of work.

[wiimanclassic]

Looking forward to its release, I've been dying to play in a game with some stamina to it. Hopefully one will allow Bangaa or Nu Mou.

Edit: I'd also be happy to volunteer myself as a proofreader. It's good practice for my line of work.

They are both already in the current version. Just for some reason in the FF12 section. Nu Mou just get Analyze at any time for no mp and a +1 bonus to any Lore skill checks.

Banga just don't die 1/4 the time when a boss uses no mercy on them.

[Brontes]

I meant I hope a game that will allow them shows up sometime after the new release.

[Dust]

As a thanks for keeping me motivated on this project, guys and gals, I wanted to give a little thanks. This link contains a complete version of the updated Jobs, with only a few things technically unfinished.

- The formatting is still very much designed to be viewed in Word and not in PDF format, and it's a visual mess. The text detail graphics are always the last things I touch up and finalize (something I couldn't force myself to do at 4am on a Thursday morning, alas, even though looking at the Monk's hair and Red Mage's outline causes me PHYSICAL PAIN!). The finished version will look significantly better.
- The ACC and AVD values of all Jobs are listed as broad categories like 'Poor' and 'Good' instead of actual numbers. Playtesting has shown a few potential problems with scaling evasion, and I wanted to make sure those get completely addressed before finalizing the numbers.
- Lots of stuff referencing other pages is marked simply as ???. This is shorthand for when a page can't be found because, for obvious reasons, it doesn't exist in the pdf. Likewise, there's lots of stuff being referenced that can't be looked up - use your imaginationz!

I now wish I had included the list of thank-yous, because the forum was a ton of help with this whole process, and I'm looking forward to showing off the entire book. Let me just say that there's lots of people who should have been credited previously and weren't (like Kobold-Bard, steelsmiter, and wiiman), and I apologize for that - your contributions have been completely essential.

Hopefully I manage to get the playable version of this damn thing out before December!

As well, I'm sure there's all sorts of munchkinny combos in the abilities I'm missing. If you spot anything that works together FREAKISHLY well, is overtly complicated or just completely worthless, please do let me know.

[Kobold-Bard]

Still don't like Paladin & Dark Knight getting access to (what I assume are) the top level of spells, just doesn't seem right.

That said it looks interesting, and I look forward to more.

[wiimanclassic]

Still don't like Paladin & Dark Knight getting access to (what I assume are) the top level of spells, just doesn't seem right.

That said it looks interesting, and I look forward to more.

Well except if they decide on Ultima how often will the DK get off a tier 5 spell?

[Brontes]

On page 3, you described the ancient constructs as "psyopathic" I assume you meant psychopathic?

[CaeruliusVentus]

First, as someone who tends toward the monk over other classes, I really like how you gave it flavor with the chains.

Is a player locked in to the class they choose at the beginning or can they pick and choose at each level?

Also, do you want spelling and editing comments?