Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

[Novagraf]

well I read through it about a week ago so can't remember some exact stuff, but only two that jump off the top of my head were Time Mage seemed like it was just REALLY powerful compared to some of the other classes. Some of the create your own limit values seemed to not be right, the catastrophe one sounds more like it's a 3rd limit while you could easily get a working enemies only version of it for your first limit.

[steelsmiter]

For example, could a knife-thrower's knives count as both Ranged and Concealed, granting the properties of both?

Though that may seem reasonable, one could argue if that were allowed that a .454 Casull, or even a shotgun could feasibly be a tier 1 Huge/Ranged and that's... no...

[Messiah]

This is awesome. Thanks Dust!

[dm_punks]

There's an updated version sitting on my computer that fixes a few serious balance issues, but I'm still struggling with the ability to get it off a mac as a high-res pdf.

Any luck with PDFying the updated version?

[Mirron]

While a little late for a bump (at least by my standards), I feel it's more important to do so than to just send a PM, as I do like the discussions here. I've read all of the past 30 pages, and am about to check on the fanmade section. I haven't read the old format, and only read some of the new format (I glossed over the equipment/bestiary as at the moment I just wanted to get a rough idea of things).

However, despite that, I do think that a number of the problems raised are valid. I think that separating physical/magical offense is a good idea. Barring bosses, I can't think of characters in general who have high offense in both physical and magic (at least without losing defensive power, such as Dark Knights). And bosses are... well, bosses, and even that isn't an absolute.

I also don't quite get the points of races without the stat variations, or... well, any variations or special things in general. If there were Job Abilities, or Abilities in general that were specific to race that could help too.

One possible way to get the stat/skill bit to work out is that you could potentially implement social and combat stats, which could clear up the issues one can have in how they pair up.

[Greyfeld85]

I was applying for a PBP game using this system, and I came across an issue.

Limit Breaks are too restricted.

The few pages of LB effects are great as a basic framework, but it just doesn't feel like there's a whole lot of variation in limit breaks between characters. Deal damage, heal damage, add statuses, clear statuses, transformation, and difficult terrain. That's really the core of every limit break any character ever creates. At the very least, I feel like there needs to be a "special ability" heading, like there is in the tier 1 equipment, to cover those things that the LB list doesn't currently cover. Or at the veryleast, the status effects shouldn't be limited by tiers. Status effects cover a lot of potential abilities, and I feel like they're limited enough with the scaling point cost, without also completely cutting players off from most of them at earlier levels.

Which kinda brings me to my second point. Due to the scaling power of future limit breaks, it's way too easy to have earlier level breaks overshadowed by later level ones. I mean, why should I take a damage-dealing LB at level 5, when at level 8 or 11 I can create another one that deals more damage, and has points left over for Piercing or status effects?

I just kinda feel like the whole system needs to betweaked and broadened a bit. Create more options so that LBs feel unique, and so that there's more room to develop three separate breaks that are all useful at the level cap and don't step on each others' toes.

[douglaswalkers]

Final fantasy is one of the coolest game I had ever played in my life, it do have smart mazes and brilliant gaming architecture and the thing I love most about it is that it have cool graphics and smart gaming characters, this all stuffs makes it addictive.

[Novagraf]

I'll be starting a campaign locally here in the next week or two. My idea for the limit breaks I kinda like... I'm tweaking mine to where when when a character criticals he rolls 2d6 again, 2-6 it's a standard crit, 7-12 it activates his level 5 limit break, if he has his 2nd or 3rd unlocked, it turns into standard crit 2-4, 1st level 5-9, players choice 10-12, or he can spend 1,2,3 destiny respectively as soon as he crits to auto activate 1st, 2nd, 3rd limit

[zoofman]

Dust, I'd highly encourage you to review Geomancers.

-For some odd reason Town and Underground's offense options are a whole degree stronger than any of the others, scaling at full level and not half level.
-Speaking of scaling at half level, that is very confusing at level 1, and makes Geotrance very weak until level 4.
- I would almost suggest just...making this use your weapon tier. I see that was your intent, but you've hard coded it in a manner that screws over a Geomancer in a party where weapon upgrades happen at an accelerated pace.
- I think you went a bit too 'every class should use every stat' overboard with Geomancer. What you did here is just not very feasible in practice in being able to keep up with your other party members. I'd suggest maybe just dropping MND as a stat they need for some of their Geotrances for something else, maybe RES or DEX, doesn't have to be all power, but those random MND scores really make it hard when other classes, often still have a SAD.
-I think you cut off the note on HOW to trigger a Maelstorm.
-Geoawareness still sorta feels like a feat tax. That and how FLUFFY a lot of their abilities are is sorta hampering.

[Eathanu]

Dust, I'd highly encourage you to review Geomancers.

-For some odd reason Town and Underground's offense options are a whole degree stronger than any of the others, scaling at full level and not half level.
-Speaking of scaling at half level, that is very confusing at level 1, and makes Geotrance very weak until level 4.
- I would almost suggest just...making this use your weapon tier. I see that was your intent, but you've hard coded it in a manner that screws over a Geomancer in a party where weapon upgrades happen at an accelerated pace.
- I think you went a bit too 'every class should use every stat' overboard with Geomancer. What you did here is just not very feasible in practice in being able to keep up with your other party members. I'd suggest maybe just dropping MND as a stat they need for some of their Geotrances for something else, maybe RES or DEX, doesn't have to be all power, but those random MND scores really make it hard when other classes, often still have a SAD.
-I think you cut off the note on HOW to trigger a Maelstorm.
-Geoawareness still sorta feels like a feat tax. That and how FLUFFY a lot of their abilities are is sorta hampering.

I forget where exactly it says, but I'm pretty sure a Maelstrom triggers when a geomancy effect crits, whether you want it to or not.

[Eathanu]

Dust, I'd highly encourage you to review Geomancers.

-For some odd reason Town and Underground's offense options are a whole degree stronger than any of the others, scaling at full level and not half level.
-Speaking of scaling at half level, that is very confusing at level 1, and makes Geotrance very weak until level 4.
- I would almost suggest just...making this use your weapon tier. I see that was your intent, but you've hard coded it in a manner that screws over a Geomancer in a party where weapon upgrades happen at an accelerated pace.
- I think you went a bit too 'every class should use every stat' overboard with Geomancer. What you did here is just not very feasible in practice in being able to keep up with your other party members. I'd suggest maybe just dropping MND as a stat they need for some of their Geotrances for something else, maybe RES or DEX, doesn't have to be all power, but those random MND scores really make it hard when other classes, often still have a SAD.
-I think you cut off the note on HOW to trigger a Maelstorm.
-Geoawareness still sorta feels like a feat tax. That and how FLUFFY a lot of their abilities are is sorta hampering.

I forget where exactly it says, but I'm pretty sure a Maelstrom triggers when a geomancy effect crits, whether you want it to or not.

[Dust]

Have you considered adding something akin to an Advantage/Disadvantage or Traits system?

The original system YEARS and YEARS ago had this. The core idea is of course a great inclusion for most tabletop rpgs, but ultimately our rendition didn't work the way any of us wanted to and wound up got scrapped pretty hard.

Is it possible for a weapon to belong to two separate Weapon Categories at the same time without the Gemini property

Afraid not. Makes logical sense, but actual gameplay mechanics make the idea moot....if you could mix and match, there'd be no reason NOT to have a weapon capable of long-range combat.

Any luck with PDFying the updated version?

Going through from start to finish trying to weed out compatibility issues, mostly having to do with nested tables. I honestly haven't looked at the system much - been busy playing with it, enjoying skype games and such where the GMs don't know the project was actually my lovechild. 'Tis nice.

I think that separating physical/magical offense is a good idea.

This is definitely the big point of contention. But I'm still at the point where I'm getting as much positive feedback as I am negative.
I had an email about a week ago from a GM; he mentioned that one of his bosses was hyped up to be a scary, magic-immune mage. He accomplished this with Unusual Defense, tons of M.ARM, and Auto-Shell...so that spells that hit him did a few points of damage at best.
The Black Mage in the group was able to change tact and fight physically, which prevented him from becoming worthless for the duration of the encounter. But on the flip side, the fact that his job abilities and equipment properties were all designed to support him as a caster (Specialization, Imperil, etc) meant that even with his high PWR score, he did less damage in melee than the party paladin.
I responded to this email by pointing out that, conversely, had the boss been heavily physical resistant, the melee characters on the team didn't have the OPTION of switching to magical attacks, to which he begrudgingly agreed to.
My point here is mostly that things aren't perfect. A system in which a player can't actually be a senile old mage with no physical strength is clearly flawed. But listening to all the feedback, I think we're much CLOSER to a level of balance than we used to be, and more importantly, closer to avoiding a system that ever makes someone feel like they can't contribute.

My idea for the limit breaks I kinda like....

Definitely a neat idea. I can get behind that, and it's better than our version in a couple ways. Not that you'll see an official change anytime soon.
I'm pretty happy with the new version of the Limit Breaker shared ability in the upcoming version; instead of more boring math underneath an overused set of buzzwords, it now lets the player describe situations that would drive their character to fury or breaks their code of ethics or whatever else they feel is appropriate. So, when 'the princess of Alexandria's life is threatened' they can bust out a limit break at no destiny cost.

Limit Breaks are too restricted. [....] I just kinda feel like the whole system needs to betweaked and broadened a bit. Create more options so that LBs feel unique, and so that there's more room to develop three separate breaks that are all useful at the level cap and don't step on each others' toes.

I agree completely. The only thing that's been stopping us from doing this is that the math behind limit breaks is daunting, and we wanted to make sure that we sniped down all the little balance issues in the core rule before we sat down and re-examined the other two systems that don't really play well with anything else; Summons and Limit Breaks.
What I'd really like to do is develop them to be things that lets your character break completely free of how they're normally perceived; I want to see a White Mage able to build a damaging limit break that would make the team's Dark Knight whistle appreciatively, or a Fighter using a blade-beam styled effect to overcome the previous example of the physical-immune boss.
And while its on the to-do list, it won't in be this next batch of updates.

For some odd reason Town and Underground's offense options are a whole degree stronger than any of the others, scaling at full level and not half level.

Town's offensive option being stronger was a typo. Underground wasn't; Earth damage is nominally higher due to how many more things are outright immune to its effects. You'll notice even the lowest black magic spells - like Stone - reflect this to some degree.

....makes Geotrance very weak until level 4.

I'm open to suggestions regarding this.

I would almost suggest just...making this use your weapon tier. I see that was your intent, but you've hard coded it in a manner that screws over a Geomancer in a party where weapon upgrades happen at an accelerated pace.

It was the intent, yes. But actually tying geomancy to weapon tier is frustratingly counter-intuitive. Getting disarmed and suddenly suffering geotrance damage loss is downright bizarre, and that feeling of 'I need money to upgrade my weapon so that my bubblebeam does moar damage' was something that got universally mentioned negatively during playtests.

I think you went a bit too 'every class should use every stat' overboard with Geomancer.

Couldn't agree more. All of the geotrance effects are running off the user's highest attribute in the next update, which should help accomplish three things - first, to ensure that geotrances are useful regardless of your stat spread, secondly to bump up the power on said geotrances a good bit, and finally to make Geomancer an easy 'dip' job. Thematically, jobs like Geomancer, Thief and Fighter should have something for everyone and be accessible and easy.
I don't know if this'll fix a lot of the ore geomancer issues, but it's a start.

Geoawareness still sorta feels like a feat tax. That and how FLUFFY a lot of their abilities are is sorta hampering.

No arguments from me here.

[zoofman]

Thanks for the reply

In the mean time my GM has me using my weapon tier for my geotrance damage. Counterintuitive or not, it's the cleanest solution we could think of. Half level is way too weak and full way too strong. Don't forget the defensive ones that use finesse or force too. Their actual scaling off full level seems fine, though, for what they do. It's really only the offensive ones that get frustrating. Stone Wall, for example, has proved hella useful.

That said, nothing about me using my weapon tier for the multiplier really HAS to imply getting disarmed means I can't use geotrance? Maybe it's just an abstraction I'm willing to make for crunch, but I don't see why you'd beat around the bush on this when you even admit it was what you were trying to implement, and both magic and melee scaling off the same stat is in a similar case.

Good to hear on highest attribute, though! Sadly I don't got many suggestions on how to tweak their abilities at the current.

[zoofman]

I forget where exactly it says, but I'm pretty sure a Maelstrom triggers when a geomancy effect crits, whether you want it to or not.

Right, it says so in older editions, and we KNOW this, but it seems gone from the current wording.

[Fisher]

Right, it says so in older editions, and we KNOW this, but it seems gone from the current wording.

Downloaded the current version, and in the entry for Geotrance it states when a Maelstrom is activated under the Offensive Geotrances section. Hope that helps.

Spoiler

Show

Offensive Geotrances cannot be critical hits however; if the attack roll for the Geotrance would cause a critical hit, then the Maelstrom attack must be used in place of the normal Offensive ability.

[Veridis Quo]

Hello Dust, I stumbled across your PDF a few weeks and just started giving it a read through and I have a question regarding the bookmarking. Would it be possible to adding more bookmarks to allow for more precise navigation?

The document is long enough where having a seperate bookmark for character classes, or sections relating to equipment or magic would be very Helpful.

[Dust]

There was a brief period there of several days where I had uploaded a non-bookmarked version, which was quickly corrected by a helpful reader. I'd suggest a re-download of the link on the first page of this thread.

[Veridis Quo]

Thank you very much for the reply Dust. The older copy of the pdf I had did have bookmarks just not as many as the newer one posted on the front page.

Thank you very much, this makes navigation infinitely easier.

[Story Time]

...I'm sorry. I don't want to bother any-one. But I lost my copy of Final Fantasy D6 from 2011. Does any-one still have that version?

[Temotei]

...I'm sorry. I don't want to bother any-one. But I lost my copy of Final Fantasy D6 from 2011. Does any-one still have that version?

Here you go.

[Story Time]

Invalid Link error...

[Temotei]

Invalid Link error...

Hopeful fix, maybe?

If not, I don't know what's up, since it works for me even when signed out of my account there.

[Story Time]

...that might be the reason. I hadn't heard of that web-site until that post above. I keep receiving the same error message. But I will say thanks. Thanks, Temotei, for trying to help.

[Vauron]

Try this link.

[Temotei]

Try this link.

Already e-mailed it to him, though more links can't hurt.

[Story Time]

Hey, it's Vauron! I remember Vauron from another thread. A generally helpful, though quiet, person.

But, yes, Temotei was kind enough to send e-mail. And it worked. Through the helpful efforts of forum members Final Fantasy D6 ( version 2011 ) lives on.


So now...maybe we can return to the regularly scheduled thread? Thanks guys.

[Falcon777]

This game system is quite amazing. Unfortunately I do not really have any friends that are into this sort of thing. In addition to that fact, I have already tried to play this game on another forum. To be perfectly honest, I don't think that this sort of game is really conducive to forum play (which of course is ok since its purpose is to be a tabletop game). Essentially my question is this (and I"m ok with deleting this post if I need to move it to another thread): is there any other way to play it in real time other than skype? and if so, is there anyone that is interested in getting a game up and running?

[Arkive]

Try google hangouts with the roll20 plugin.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Is there a version of this document without images? 100 MB is a bit much.

[kaiten619]

is there a pdf for a gm screen 3-panel in portrait form