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  1. - Top - End - #1051
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Quote Originally Posted by squiggit View Post
    *Actually the party's 'black mage' just started their character out as a red mage since Red gets more spells than black does. Which is another issue entirely... if you can find a way to make up for the loss in MP there's basically no downside to playing Red over Black... Red gets more spells in the Novice, Intermediate and Expert categories... and Black's abilities are by and large utilitarian (nothing on the level of spellblade, flourish, charimagic, at least IMO)... Black's only real advantage as a class is its access to Ancient spells, but Red doesn't actually get anything at levels 13 or 15 anyways, which makes it easy for the mage to stockpile destiny for those two levels.

    Granted, you can say the same for White and Time vs Red, but at least they have access to some particularly intriguing abilities that more directly enhance their play
    Everything you said aside from this I agree with, that said I agree with the general idea, planning to go black mage? Eh just stay Red for a little while, they get more of everything and have sweet job abilities to boot.

    Low level blackmages get the very nice specialization and Elemental Seal is not bad. Favored spell gets real nice later on.
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  2. - Top - End - #1052
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trisk View Post
    Everything you said aside from this I agree with, that said I agree with the general idea, planning to go black mage? Eh just stay Red for a little while, they get more of everything and have sweet job abilities to boot.

    Low level blackmages get the very nice specialization and Elemental Seal is not bad. Favored spell gets real nice later on.
    I suppose I did exaggerate it a bit. Those abilities are very good... but I really think the extra spell slots and how spectacular some of those Red Mage abilities are make them the winning choice for the first seven levels at least (varying depending on how destiny dense the game is).

    I like X-Magic and Fastcast over Crystal Cannon and Osmose too.

  3. - Top - End - #1053
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    I hadn't seem this one before. Really, really well done. I'm going to playtest it, I know just the right group!

  4. - Top - End - #1054
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Idea: Red Mages should have their own spell list. Allowing ancients, and such but allowing them their own balance spell list.
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  5. - Top - End - #1055
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    A Red Magic spell list would involve lots of buffing and debuffing if it were based at all upon FFXI. But what about a whole set of spells, that are cast into his weapon and then used with a melee attack to unleash the attack. Landing certain attacks or criticals could provide instant cast self-buffs or something like that. Interesting idea, but yeah I would like to see the Red Mage become a little more defined than it currently is. Cause right now it's just a must have caster class for some OP abilities that seem like they were meant mechanically for someone else.

    Problem with PWR's weakness vs DEX. . . Dex increases AVD and when stacked really high can over power accuracy bonuses. Outside of enchants and 1/2 level, there is no statistical way to improve Acc. . . If PWR were also responsible for your character's chance to hit, then it would become a lot more viable. But I think she made Acc non-scaling for a reason. Probably too hard to balance otherwise.

  6. - Top - End - #1056
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    I think we scared Dust away with our million questions. . . . Here's 5 more.

    Mechanics Question: Chimera's Blood + Electrocute

    It seems fair to say that these would work together, allowing one to cast a spell on an enemy, and deal/receive DEX x 7 +2d6 HP per round, absorbing the damage that would otherwise be considered a backlash effect from the spell. . . So if it works that way, here are my questions.

    1. Can I target an ally? One who may also be a Blue with the same combination of abilities. . . I mean, if two Blues had this set of abilities and cast the spell on each other, that's DEX x 7 +2d6 TWICE each round. . .

    2. Can this be "stacked"? Since it's not a status-effect, natural logic says that you could cast this ability twice on the same target, dealing and taking the damage twice or more each round until combat is finished. . . I mean if you had enough MP, could you cast this over and over, and continue to receive more and more healing, while dealing tons of damage.

    3. When using Escalate (or anything else that increases damage steps), if you were to cast the spell with an enhanced damage step would the enhanced damage remain for the entire fight? DEX x 9 + 2d6 each round. . . This could get really nasty if you combined several ways to increase damage steps just before off-loading a spell that will last for the entire fight.

    4. Please explain the intended use when mixing Consumables and the Spell Burst effect. Because it seems like for 200g (Tier 3 consumable price) I could throw Spell Burst items that save me precious MP, and allow my spell to take immediate effect, since using an item is not a slow-action. Spell Burst: Death, could be quite nasty on a Dark Knight who stacks Deteriorate but doesn't have enough MP to regularly use Death (100mp per cast). My group is very curious how you intend for us to use these rules, though for now I'm keeping things in check with a strict loot/purchase/craft system.

    5. Chimera's Blood (Absorbing Lightning, while weak to Earth) + Flight Effects. Chimera's Blood says specifically that you cannot gain an immunity or absorbancy to the element that you have chosen to be your weakness. . . Does this include Flight effects? Flight doesn't provide the standard effects of immunity or absorbancy, but it does say that it "Negates all damage and effects. . .". If this were FF6, I feel like it would work. . . But it may be broken.

  7. - Top - End - #1057
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Gonna have to split this into a few posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valnnar View Post
    Why is it that you seem to want Dragoon's to be based off of Dex?
    I don't. I wanted dragoons to be a dual-role class, either able to be a glass-cannon crit-fisher by building up DEX/MND, or be a front-line defender that steers towards the more traditional PWR/RES. You can see that more clearly in abilities like Deep Breathing. None of their lore-centric abilities or their limit abilities make any distinction between which stats you choose to focus on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valnnar View Post
    Also I have yet to find an example of a level 13-15 Dragoon build that stands up to other damage specialized class builds
    I encourage you to post up a sample level 13-15 'specialized build' to weigh this against, then.
    There's no complexity to building a straight damage crit-fisher. Velocity and a lucky weapon provides a 28% chance to land a critical hit. For the purposes of this exercise we're not going to combine that with Rising Strength for 41% instead, because it's got a prerequisite we can't control.
    Add triple critical, calculate in how enemy defenses are less effective on burst damage than multiple small hits, and with a two-ability/two-property investment from Dragoon you're able to increase your basic attack damage by a straight average of seventy freakin' percent before we even start TALKING about limit breaks.
    This is designed in relation to other JAs that are designed to increase damage (at endgame) by roughly 10%-20% each based on the difficulty of meeting their criteria and how often they occur, and offensive weapon properties that sit at a pretty consistent 16.2%. So mathematically, the damage dragoon's is already above-average here. When you combine that with follow-up it jumps up to a 147% damage INCREASE, which is actually without equal until you start messing around with endgame mages or a dual-wielding shadow-damage-focused build. Damage dragoons are near the top of the heap from the time you get your first limit ability 'til about level 10, and they're pretty major contenders for the level 1 'DPR' spot, too.

    However, there's no other support for limit breaks becoming EVEN MOAR damage other than those options. You can't hop around to other classes to cherry-pick stuff to keep boosting your chosen role - that's the ceiling, and you hit it way before you've even gotten started spending all your abilities.
    Thus, dragoons are forced to start dipping into either defensive stuff - which, to their frustration, often takes away their wonderful wonderful critical hits in exchange for (ugh) teamwork - or finding other classes that give them damage-step-increase abilities.
    If I can speak frankly, it was pretty much a huge pain in the ass to actively deny other classes crit-shenanigans just because it has such overwhelming mix/match potential for brokenness otherwise. It's the Dragoon's purview, and in my mind, the 'canon build' for the role involves an awful lot of balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by War Planets and DoubleN View Post
    Gemini!
    When you add the 'gemini' weapon property, it automatically acquires your desired stuff for free. A tier 2 Shield, which can only obtain one property total, can still serve as a gun when you add Gemini. Don't think of a gunblade like this:
    Ranged, Gemini property, Blade
    But rather like this:
    Gemini: Ranged property, Blade

    When I talk about a gemini item, I'm trying to express the idea of something that straddles the line between the already-broad categories. My favorite example is also the first one in the book - a massive spiked shield that not only protects the user, but is also used as a full-time weapon without penalty. A pendant that not only serves as the peasant girl's armor by radiating a protective light, but blasts beams of holy light when she's in danger.

    And this means that gemini stuff, by it's very nature, is ready to be used right outta the box. You don't need to buy additional pieces of gear and try to smush them together to achieve the desired effect, and so on. By the current system, your level 1 Warrior would only have to purchase the gemini shield and his heavy armor, change the property so that the shield is basically also a sword, and walk around dealing tier two damage right outta the gate.

    Which is unfortunate, because it means he's found the loophole I hadn't originally considered, and his trick won't be much good once I update the book to fix this unfortunate side-effect of Gemini.

    However, the rules about 'use whichever perk on a weapon you want' still apply. If you have a gun that has both Water Strike and Fire Strike on it, it means you can swap back and forth between them as is convenient for you. If you're using a gemini weapon that's both a Gun and a Bow, then you can choose to have your attacks be always made at range, or not, or always use DEX to calculate damage, or not, as is convenient.
    This is one of the things adding to single-stat characters becoming more prevalent, and I'm also gonna be taking a real look at this.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleN View Post
    Dragoon jumps and group attacks.
    You - and the others who've mentioned this - are right on the money, I'd say. I'm looking into how I can improve this.
    Last edited by Dust; 2013-03-20 at 02:51 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #1058
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Although I can approve of the thought of Dragoon's being crit-fishers, and that doing a lot of damage. . . Why Dragoons? I mean, you said you designed them to be built flexibly between two basic ideas, damage or tanky. So did you mean to make Jump only useful for the tanky side? Cause if critting is the way to deal damage with the Dragoon class, and you made their Innate unable to crit, it seems like a really confusing option to place on a player. Currently the only merit I find in actually using Jump, is when combined with Threaten to cut the enemies damage in half, like a pseudo-samurai. . . I guess as a Dragoon purist I thought that Jumping would have something to do with their damage build, as it was in the Final Fantasy series. I mean in my mind Velocity is the "dipping" ability. It's the ONE ability in the game (obviously for balancing purposes) that increases critical chance. All the rest of the things that were used in the cool dps build you just mentioned were either weapon properties available to everyone, or Rising Strength which can mimic Duel-wielding in certain combat situations.

    Here's what I guess I'm trying to say. . . Make Jump crit, or take the Velocity/Follow-Through out of Dragoon, and put it elsewhere. The Innate ability is the core of the class, and being locked out of damage simply to keep myself safe from harm is not a very fun idea. Also the idea of stabbing a guy with a spear on the ground and having it do 3-6 times as much damage as if I were to Jump a mile into the sky and come crashing down on him is just not satisfying. Dragoons have typically favored mobility, burst, and longevity, while being weak to magic debuffs, and not providing much support to their team (which may not be a very attractive idea in a table-top).

    Crits are huge in this game. . . Stacking Follow-Through and Spell Burst can create insane damage numbers. I understand how hard it is to let anything else stack with critting (such as Jump).

    I'll wait for you to get a chance to answer some of my past questions before I throw a couple "Pure class" builds at you that would potentially CRUSH a pure Dragoon. Some of the wording for the combos I am talking about are still a bit iffy. As a power gamer, simply. . . I am not attracted to much of the features of the Dragoon class outside of it's extreme usefulness when building a multi-class crit-fishing Spell-Burst, Follow-Through, auto-attacker. Even then, I really only NEED Velocity and potentially Follow-Through.
    Last edited by Valnnar; 2013-03-20 at 01:48 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #1059
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    Thumbs up Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Let me pause and mention. Dust, I think you are awesome. I think you have a unique and amazing perspective on table-top balance, and how to translate a universe into a system. You have undertaken a huge project, which will never truly be balanced completely (haven't found a single game that was). I appreciate your time, and effort. Also I am very appreciative of your responses to our questions. . . .

    Thank you. From the Gamers and GMs to the Maker. Thank you, from my entire gaming crew.


    ....Now give us some answers! NAO! : P
    Last edited by Valnnar; 2013-03-20 at 02:04 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #1060
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Quote Originally Posted by Valnaar
    Dragoons!
    I get where you're coming from. It feels totally unsatisfying to have this awesome damage character not using his iconic ability because it would actually make his damage SUFFER. That's just backwards.

    You made a gut response reply in that last post where you asserted that normal attacks deal an average of '3 to 6 times' more damage than a normal attack that doesn't have the chance to crit. I think, if pressed, you'd agree that it was an exaggeration and unable to be true, but that's not the point. The point is that it FEELS like you're giving up so much STUFF to jump, because you're all about critting and then it doesn't LET you. And in my mind, that's the real thing that needs to be addressed.

    I won't ever transform Jump into an ability that does more raw damage than a standard physical attack at any point in time. Even with job abilities. In fact, that was the inspiration between dragoons being critical specialists in the first place - they've always been about burst damage, and tackling it that way meant that Jump could be used for constant mobility, but without the 11%-28% chance for double damage.

    And I strongly feel that Jump needs to be a go-to option whenever you need mobility. To a lesser extent, this means that everything else that improves it is just a perk.

    Let me propose a compromise.

    What if I was to roll some of the other JA-granted abilities into Jump, and replace those with things that provided more overall synergy to the class? Jump would therefore be more like:
    "Yadda yadda leap a medium range, slow action, you know all this already. Instant action when you land. If the attack granted from jump would cause a critical hit, it does not deal any bonus damage or activate weapon properties, but instead destroys the surface the dragoon lands on, causes damage to all targets within a short range, and may activate abilities such as Threaten."

    Quote Originally Posted by War Planets View Post
    Limit Breaks and Summoning
    I totally approve of your fix for limit breaks. Hopefully I can come up with something that alleviates the problems without the unfortunate 'will only work with my style of GMing' caveat.

    There's a bunch of stuff I'm totes not happy with in the books. Some of the job abilities are awful - like the new Dark Knight one, I dunno what I was thinking writing - but mostly the Destiny system and how it leaves a ton to be desired. As you mentioned, it makes the 'cost' of certain things unreasonable. I've considered changing Destiny so that you acquire it each session and it resets back to zero at the end, but this comes with its own bushel of problems. Ultimately, the fact that I've made powerful combat options exist with the 'but you have to spend your poiiiiiiiintssss' restriction is actually a step back for the system as a whole. It helps trivialize - or at least randomize - boss battles, and makes it easy to see a metagame-y system as another avenue to power and bigger numbers. That's not my goal at all. Rewriting destiny, summons, limit breaks, and all of the related material is the update after the bestiary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon777 View Post
    I have underlined my questions to highlight them.
    Oh, how thoughtful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon777 View Post
    Why is spell damage calculated based off of PWR instead of MND?
    Power isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's something you just ARE. If you can lose it by putting down your sword and picking up a staff instead, you never really had any power in the first place, see what I'm saying?

    I've talked about this an awful lot and don't feel like doing that today. Instead, I'm going to yammer. Maybe it'll be relevant, maybe not.

    The idea that magic equates to intelligence has long been a fantasy standard. It's a neat image, and one that I'm very very fond of - the idea that you never can quite tell just how influential an individual might be because magic isn't outwardly measurable. Maybe it's tied to some intangible aspect of someone like a soul, or maybe it's acquired by selling that same soul, or earned by spending years poring over tattered pages in a dusty tower library.
    But magic is amazing, it can do anything, and so forth and so on.

    I think this has given us, as gamers, as interesting knee-jerk reaction to magic. Because it is so great, there has to inherently be a drawback - you're physically weaker, or the amount of magic you can cast is limited, it requires time and components, etc etc. But we don't also impose these same drawbacks on martial fighters for the most part - because picking up and swinging around a woodsman's axe isn't on the same level. Anyone can do it. It takes something special to be a mage.

    But in the FF-verse, that's not true. Outside of the times when magic is granted only by special crystals/creatures/both simultaneously, it's an avenue available to everyone.
    I had to start thinking about how I was going to tackle that. And I realized something. I realized that, while I enjoy the idea of magic being a representation of the strength of one's mind, I prefer it being a representation of one's personality. So why was I trying to do that with stats?

    Experimentally, I made the same attribute cover both how hard you could swing a sword and how explode-y your fireballs were. I wasn't sold on the idea at the time. But then we did a few playtests and it grew on me, it solved a lot of balance issues and finally, the change made it into the big 2.0 update. The emails I got back were great.
    White Mages and intelligent sorts who went into Black magic never quite managed to set the world ablaze. Furious warriors who went into black magic only knew maybe one spell at first, but they knew how to cast that spell REAL GOOD.
    Over time, the trend became self-evident; that folks whose personalities screamed 'don't mess with me' and destruction didn't dive into magic and get held back because they weren't smart enough - they succeeded because they were already in the right frame of mind.

    The name - PWR - used to really bug me. It's very meta, and hard to physically describe a character having or not having it. But then I realized that was one of the things I loved about magic.

    Iron Man and Sherlock Holmes are both geniuses...and it'd show in their stats. But if you climbed into the ring with 'em, you'd be hard-pressed to argue that, while Holmes still fights with the power of his mind, Tony Stark doesn't fight with raw power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon777 View Post
    Any trends where charismatic red mages are dominant casters?
    I hear about this way moreso on these forums than anywhere else. The short version is that Charismagic is going to remain unchanged for the time being. To oversimplify things a lot, a red mage could take PWR/MND as their main attributes (y'know, like black mage stats), swing around an arcane weapon, and still gain more or less the same benefits minus the dominant finesse score (y'know, like a black mage).

    For now - and in fact, for the past several months - I remain unconvinced they need heavy-handed fixes. I feel a lot of the criticisms come from people who have yet to acquire much hands-on experience with the system. But it's something that gets brought up a fair bit, and thus is constantly on the proverbial radar.

    Edit: I've just now gotten around to reading Trisk's posts and the others regarding this. I'm off to go do some serious analysis of this. Back with proper responses later on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Various People
    Why can't dragoons use shields, even though a notable dragoon did once?
    For the same reason black mages can't use concealed weapons, even though a notable black mage had a propensity for stabbin's. It means I'd have to either reduce how good shields are, or how good dragoon defenses are normally, or lean them more towards a damage-dealer role instead of a hybrid to compensate. All of those are silly options compared to just suggesting a job change to fix it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon777 View Post
    Level change!
    Thirty was too much. It made building monsters a rough estimate at best, players didn't feel as psyched to increase their stats and whatnot, the attribute gap between your 'focused' attributes and ignored ones became too huge, and acquiring new stuff took more memorization than I wanted - every four levels this, every two levels under a waxing moon that, etc.
    The new system comes with the super-fun perk of me being able to say 'half level' for stuff, and we don't wind up with silly garbage like characters who have 60 points more than their teammates in certain stats.
    Last edited by Dust; 2013-03-20 at 03:26 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #1061
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    I Have to agree with Valnnar that the innate not benefiting from crit feels awkward when the class uses a weapon with enhanced critting and has crit benefits tied to their abilities.

    I wanted dragoons to be a dual-role class, either able to be a glass-cannon crit-fisher by building up DEX/MND, or be a front-line defender that steers towards the more traditional PWR/RES.
    I don't think this distinction plays out as well as you'd like in practice. Personally when I was building my tanky dragoon character I still went very heavily into DEX/MND and invested in crit based talents. Threaten requires crits, Lancet scales off MND, Whirling Spear off Finesse... He's using a Gemini Speargun in order to circumvent investing any points into PWR.

    Subject: Alternative Rules for (WoP) Main/Sub Class system
    I tried this out in my last game with a character and it basically perfectly 'fixes' the 'problem' I mentioned before with making 'custom' battlemage classes (in this instance it was a gambler/time mage). I still feel like it's basically impossible to do effectively in the stock game (at least without greatly cutting into the roleplaying aspect of the character)... though like I said last time, it's not even necessarily a problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by Valnnar View Post
    Let me pause and mention. Dust, I think you are awesome. I think you have a unique and amazing perspective on table-top balance, and how to translate a universe into a system. You have undertaken a huge project, which will never truly be balanced completely (haven't found a single game that was). I appreciate your time, and effort. Also I am very appreciative of your responses to our questions. . . .

    Thank you. From the Gamers and GMs to the Maker. Thank you, from my entire gaming crew.
    And yes, second this. Love the system. Love the polish. Love the dialog with the lead developer.

    Oh, one more comment:
    On the subject of PWR. I really hate the way that if you invest in an item or ability to give you an alternate damage stat (gemini, blade/ranged/concealed, charismagic, dragon's fang) PWR instantly stops doing anything at all.
    Last edited by squiggit; 2013-04-12 at 04:49 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #1062
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Quote Originally Posted by Valnnar View Post
    Discussion: Using Follow-Through, Spell Burst, and Destiny Points to potentially gain many extra attacks.
    This is all rolled into the shebang problem of attacks and spells overlapping. n00b mistake. Temporarily house rule it so that they can't crit, even though that's not correct by RAW, and it'll be fixed in the next release.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valnnar View Post
    It seems to me that Dust has put one AMAZING caster ability available in each of the caster classes...
    This is completely ridiculous! Why, this would imply that Blink isn't far, far better than Mind over Matter, or that Favored Spell (man, that really needs a better name) wouldn't be the Black Mage's slice of the pie in this completely irrational theory of yours! In fact, I find this theory to be so preposterous that I don't even NEED to confirm whether it's true or false!

    Quote Originally Posted by Valnnar View Post
    Alternative Rules for Main/Sub Class system.........I'd rather have the DP saved for truly epic things, rather than simply being fuel to achieve a specific class build.
    Please let me know how this works out. If there's one thing in the system I'd like to overhaul to be more like a fan homebrew, it'd be this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Valnnar View Post
    What constitutes a "damaging attack" when building chain points as a monk?
    -Does the extra attack from Follow-Through Count?
    -Does spell burst "Drill Shot" count?
    -Does spell burst "Fira" Count?
    -Does Whirling Spear from Dragoons work?
    -Does Quick Hit from Thief work?
    -Does Counter Attack work?
    I'll be more clear on this in the next revision. I meant an attack in that it required an attack roll. So;
    Yes, Technically yes although we've talked about this, No because magic, No because it isn't an 'attack', Yes, and Absolutely.


    Quote Originally Posted by ThreadOfFate View Post
    When looking through the PDF, it's really well organized and put together and illustrated and polished...until the character sheet, which is (let's face it), pretty lame.
    Agreed. It's the worst.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThreadOfFate View Post
    So, I went into Illustrator and whipped up some shiny looking ones.
    I'll be releasing periodic style updates to these, and I would absolutely love any feed back you guys have.

    Find them here:
    FF Sheet, default

    No Spell Descriptions

    The "Final Fantasy Infinite" logo and name is for my particular FF game.

    Issues I am aware of and have yet to fix:
    • The 25% and 50% in the HP/MP boxes is a bit too light
    • The skill list is missing "Systems"
    This is incredibly gorgeous. I am at a loss for words.
    When you're finished and, assuming you'd be open to the idea, I would love to talk to you more about making this the official sheet.

    Might I suggest dropping the word 'ranks' from the top of the skill section? Very D&D and probably unnecessary. Otherwise I don't have a single complaint.
    Last edited by Dust; 2013-03-20 at 03:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trisk View Post
    SO MUCH STUFF
    Know that this is incredibly helpful. I'll be going through this list one-by-one over the next few days. I'll sit down and chat about red mages soon. I think we can all agree that they lack noticable drawbacks, or can easily buy them off.

  14. - Top - End - #1064
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Allow me express where those extreme multiplications came from regarding my "3 to 6 times more damage" comment. I was talking about "Potential Damage", which can obviously represent a series of very unlikely rolls to achieve. . . Never the less, I don't throw numbers out randomly, so allow me to explain.

    Let's use a Dragoon who has a Tier 5 wep, and 20 PWR or DEX whatever he is using. On the weapon is Triple Critical, the Dragoon has Follow-Through.

    -With a Jump the potential damage is 20 x 5 + 2d6 = Average of 107 damage. None of the factors that we are currently measuring can increase the damage any farther. . . Thus the Potential Damage, stops here.

    -With a melee attack the standard damage is also 107. However, with a critical hit the damage would be increased to 336, and allow for another attack. Although a Follow-Through attack cannot proc Limit Breaks, or itself, it can still apply critical damage, equaling another 336. Using stocked Destiny Points to ensure critical hits at vital moments has been a staple amongst my group members. The damage could be increased farther if you were to cross class, and add Spell Burst: (insert damaging spell here if Drill Shot cannot crit). However, we are only measuring things available to a pure Dragoon. So Potentially, with double crits. . . . 672 damage is Possible, which is up to 6 times greater than a Jump made by the same character. And that's all I meant.

    My players see Potential Damage, as damage. And they will seek to apply that damage when they need it most. And DP gives them just the tool they need to do so.
    Last edited by Valnnar; 2013-03-20 at 05:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dust View Post
    This is completely ridiculous! Why, this would imply that Blink isn't far, far better than Mind over Matter, or that Favored Spell (man, that really needs a better name) wouldn't be the Black Mage's slice of the pie in this completely irrational theory of yours! In fact, I find this theory to be so preposterous that I don't even NEED to confirm whether it's true or false!
    I suppose I didn't correctly define my topic. I was specifically thinking/talking about Static Abilities that can shape your caster. Mind Over Matter + Charismagic + MP Stroll. Set it and forget it combos that work for any casters that can get them. The other abilities may compare in power, but would be harder to combine with abilities from other classes to make amazing combinations (I know they exist, I'm not going over that right now). There seems to be a pure "set it and forget it" caster ability in almost every caster class, and they all combine well.

    I was simply stating that I thought this may have been done purposely. As in. . . Intended to work to well together, incase a person wanted to make a multi-classed caster that wasn't very specialized, but had a lot of raw power from every path he/she had walked throughout their life.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Thanks for stopping by and answering some stuff Dust. You're awesome!

    Could you clarify how you intended Escelate to work with Electrocute or other multi round spells? Would it increase the damage steps on the inital round only or would it continue at the increased damage the entire time?

    I am playing a Blue Mage with Valnnar's group at the moment and I am thinking of taking Chimrea's Blood (Lightning absorb) and Escelate with Electrocute once I hit 10; I'm just curious how it should work.

    Also, Flight negates damage from earth based spells and abilities. If I take Chimera's Blood and choose Earth as my weakness would Bloodline Aerial cause me to negate all earth damge?

    EDIT
    Flight specifically says you negate all damage from earth based spells and abilities rather than gain immunity. I'm thinking house rule it to be an immunity to keep Blue Mages in check.
    Last edited by awahl; 2013-03-20 at 04:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    If I take Favored Spell 3 times for 3 different spells can I use them all in the same fight, or round? Cause that may be better than I otherwise thought.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Asuran Fists + Follow-Through: How many attacks are possible? Still only a limit of six, thus removing the beneficial effects of Follow-Through while using this ability? Or can each attack that crits independently proc their own Follow-Through and Spell Burst Properties?

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    @ Dust:

    Level change: fair enough.

    PWR vs MND: thematicaly it took me a long time to accept the existence of the PWR stat, though the more I learned about final fantasy the more it made sense for there to be PWR stat. My question, however, wasn't really about the existence of a PWR stat, but rather of why your mana pool and your spell damage are not based off of the same stat. Thematically it makes sense for PWR to be how people in ff are able to cast a spell, well, if you are a warrior (or any other non casting class) or a redmage since both of those classes are using sheer force of will to do so. However, Black/White/Time mages in fact actually DO spend hours studying and learning the rituals and knowledge of their craft; that fact is the whole basis (thematically; in reality you *Dust* can do whatever the heck you want with this game) for charismagic and the entire redmage class. What this then leads to (since PWR is something you are and MND is something you learn) is that those more "pure" classes are in fact not learning how to cast their spells properly, but rather are learning how to simply channel mana, which thematically seems like an incredibly basic and simple thing.
    Ultimately I understand the need to balance the classes, so if that is the reason why the same stat isn't used for spell damage and mana pool size (regardless of whether it is PWR or MND or blargety blarg blarg) then I'll accept it. A working game that breaks some themes is better than a broken game, no matter how much sense it might make.

    In terms of the opness of the redmage, I actually had a couple of ideas (assuming you do in fact find that they need a workover): one idea is to have charismagic be their innate ability. This fixes the problem of anyone simply dipping into the class for that ability or redmages dipping into other classes for their ancient spells. Another idea (which kind of ties into the previous paragraph) is to have the redmage's mana pool be calculated off of PWR instead of MND (if he has taken the charismagic ability or if it is his innate). The main problem I have with this idea, though, is that it doesn't allow a redmage character to be a finesse heavy character (since any ability for that allows a caster class to have the same stat for both spell damage and a mana pool is an absolute must have), and redmages seem like a perfect class to favor finesse over force (rapier vs broadsword; and of course I'm preaching to the choir now, lol). In a way, though, it kind of makes sense since redmages are using their sheer force of will (along with a lot of practice) to cast their spells, whereas you would probably expect a black mage that has spent much time in study to have greater mental agility.

    Sigh, I don't know; hopefully my input at least helps the brain juices flow so that you can figure out some kind of fix.

    Falcon777

    P.S. YOU ARE AMAZING DUST!!! THERE'S NO WAY I COULD DO WHAT YOU DO!!!!
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Sorry if this was already posted somewhere but the amount of pages is discouraging to browse through.

    Could someone post a step by step on how to do a team attack? At times I think my group and I are misunderstanding how it's supposed to play out.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Quote Originally Posted by DualShadow View Post
    Sorry if this was already posted somewhere but the amount of pages is discouraging to browse through.

    Could someone post a step by step on how to do a team attack? At times I think my group and I are misunderstanding how it's supposed to play out.
    The way I understand it:

    2 or more players declare they are making a teamwork attack before they make their attacks.

    They then make standard attacks and cast their spells as normal, rolling their 2d6 for either acc or in the case of spells, damage.

    Once everyone participating in the teamwork attack has rolled, you look for paired numbers on the dice.

    If any of the numbers match, the attack in considered a success (so long as the rolls being matched are high enough to hit the target in the case of non magical attacks).

    Examples:
    Jona and Pyre declare their next attack will be a teamwork attack. Their target has 13 AVD and Jona has 6 ACC. Jona rolls 2d6 to hit with his sword and Pyre quickcasts Fira and rolls 2d6 for damage. Jona rolls a 1 and a 3 and Pyre rolls a 1 and a 6. Because Jonas roll was not high enough to hit the monsters AVD the teamwork attack fails even though they have matching #'s. The mana is spent on the spell and the spell misses as well as the attack. I believe this is the only way a spell can straight up miss.

    This time Jona rolls a 4 and a 6 and Pyre rolls a 1 and a 4. The attack is a success because spells always hit and Jonas attack beat the targets AVD. Apply the benefits of a sucessfull teamwork attack.

    Jona rolls a 5 and a 6 Pyre rolls a 3 and a 4. The attack misses and both attacks fail a no #'s matched. Mana is spent.
    Last edited by awahl; 2013-03-21 at 05:52 PM.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Subject: Character Sheet v2

    Well, I can't ask for a better response than that.

    Here are the v2.0 of the character sheets. Changes:

    1. Increased readability on the 25 and 50% HP/MP boxes
    2. Added Systems to the skills chart
    3. Removed the "ranks" word for the thing
    4. Darkened the "INNATE" word
    5. Swapped the Final Fantasy Infinite logo for the FF d6 one.


    If anyone has any comments or suggestions or feedback, please let me know! Changing these things is really easy, and I can probably personalize them for you or your group if you ask me to - just give me some details.

    However, since I lack Adobe Pro Reader, I cannot add digital forms to the PDFs. Sorry about that.

    FF d6 Sheet
    FF d6 Sheet - No Spell Descriptions
    Last edited by ThreadOfFate; 2013-03-23 at 12:24 AM. Reason: Fixed links to sheets.
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Quote Originally Posted by awahl View Post
    The way I understand it:

    2 or more players declare they are making a teamwork attack before they make their attacks.

    They then make standard attacks and cast their spells as normal, rolling their 2d6 for either acc or in the case of spells, damage.

    Once everyone participating in the teamwork attack has rolled, you look for paired numbers on the dice.

    If any of the numbers match, the attack in considered a success (so long as the rolls being matched are high enough to hit the target in the case of non magical attacks).
    So in the case of a three players teamwork attack, if the rolls are [1,3] [2,3] and [4,5], the attack succeeds for the three of them? (Assuming they hit the AVD)
    Last edited by DualShadow; 2013-03-22 at 12:10 AM.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Quote Originally Posted by DualShadow View Post
    So in the case of a three players teamwork attack, if the rolls are [1,3] [2,3] and [4,5], the attack succeeds for the three of them? (Assuming they hit the AVD)
    That's how we've been doing it. The benefit of more participants is more dice meaning more chances to match numbers. The drawback is if any of them miss AVD the attack fails for everyone.

    IMO this makes spellcasting the better route when using team attacks as you have one less thing to worry about (hitting AVD) for success.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    The Dark Knight's Killing Machine limit ability states that "A character with Soul Eater receives +1 to ACC and damage step per enemy they personally deal the killing blow to". The rest of the ability's description clarifies how it works, explains how it stacks and how long the buff lasts. There's no secondary effect.

    Is this a typo? Or does the ability do nothing unless the Dark Knight has also taken the Souleater limit ability?

    Also, I'm pretty sure this one has already been answered, but I couldn't find it: Do special attacks that activate off of weapon attacks (like Orlandeau's Strike or Sharpshot or Shockwave) benefit from weapon properties or abilities that change how standard attacks work? If I Orlandeau's on a paladin with a ranged weapon, can he force the attack to scale off of DEX? Can he use the ability on a target at medium or long range?
    Last edited by squiggit; 2013-03-23 at 11:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Right, because I should be doing homework, I decided to throw something else together.

    This is an Excel spreadsheet designed to aid in monster creation. Right now, it does a lot of math for you, along with some other cool information, and I wouldn't call it super useful, but I've found it to save some time when throwing together some monsters for a session.

    To use it: Select the monster species and difficulty (normal, notorious, boss, end boss) from the boxes (they're drop-down menus), and type in the level.

    That gives you your attribute points to work with. Fill those into their provided spaces, and you get derived stats like HP, MP, ACC, AVD, Force, Finesse, and Basic Attack Damage.

    Then, you can pick elemental weaknesses/affinities. Right below that section are affinities that come from the species selected. A (?) next to one means it is suggested.

    You can also pick abilities, but that part's pretty crappy, so you should use the PDF for that. However, this does tell you how many abilities you can pick, so there's that.

    Anyway, if someone wants to make this super awesome and not sucky, please let me know. Or do it. I'm barely competent at this thing, and I find that the biggest advantage of this is that it does a lot of the math for you.

    Download it here: FF d6 v1.3: Monster Generator
    Last edited by ThreadOfFate; 2013-03-23 at 12:33 AM.
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    The White Clad - Custom Base Class, based on the Assassin's Creed series, now with a bonus Prestige class - The Guildmaster.
    Star Wars Saga Edition Force Power Revamp, complete with new skill calculations and a shiny graph.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    ThreadOfFate-

    I love you so much.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    ThreadOfFate: you are, without a doubt, the 2nd most awesome and amazing person here.
    (Dust is 1st on the list)
    When you have a player that wants to be in a campaign but knows that he will miss every other week. Do not say that he cannot be in the campaign. Let him play the bosses, especially a recurring boss. Just give the player your idea of the boss character and then let him make it and play it. If you do this, do not interfere with the battle. With this method you create a genuine personality for your bosses.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    Wow, thanks. I'm also working for an on-the-fly equipment generator, I'll post that when I'm done.
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    Former BleachITP player of the one and only Minuet.

    Homebrew!
    The Freerunner, based on everyone's favorite parkour girl Faith Connors.
    The White Clad - Custom Base Class, based on the Assassin's Creed series, now with a bonus Prestige class - The Guildmaster.
    Star Wars Saga Edition Force Power Revamp, complete with new skill calculations and a shiny graph.

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy d6 (Complete System)

    This looks amazing. I can't wait to find a group to play it with. In the meantime, I had a couple questions that I couldnt find a clear answer to in the book(nor from search, but then again I cant get in-forum search working for some reason).

    * Can you have a Weapon in each hand, used separately, without dual wield? ie: Blade(Reliable, Spellburst, +2 Pwr) in right hand and Arcane(Quick Cast, Wind Enhancer, +2 Mnd) in left hand, attacking with the blade and using the arcane to cast spells?

    * If so, do you gain always-on traits(like Attribute Bonus and Auto-Status) all the time or just when that one is the 'active' weapon?

    * Does the Tier 4 version of Gemini still have the benefit of the Tier 2 version(that is, giving each one the attributes of both)? If not, do you have to take the Tier 4 version? I can see the Tier 2 being better in alot of circumstances.

    * When casting a Blue Magic spell that targets both an ally and an enemy(example: Chocoball does damage to a single enemy then gives HP to the caster and one ally) does Diffusion make it target all enemies and all allies, or just all enemies with normal ally targeting?

    * Diffusion again, and let's keep using Chocoball. Is the 25% HP cost taken before or after the spell takes effect(it's not specified in the Diffusion entry, and White Wind makes a special point to mention it's deducted before everyone regains health).

    * Seriously, anyone need another player? I want to try this so bad :D

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