More Dinosaurs than Isla Nublar (okay, not really, PEACH)

[LOTRfan]

It looks like Gigantoserpen is missing 3 more epic feats. I'm not familiar with Overpowering Stench and Rancid Smell feats -- what book(s) are they from?

Debby

Hamishspence was right. I meant to provide the link in the entry, but I don't know what happened. I'll fix that now.

Also, the creature is missing a feat (it should be twelve, not eleven), but I'm a little rusty with epic. Why would it require four epic feats? I was under the impression that creatures (along with epic characters) could choose regular feats instead of epic ones.

Perhaps I am misremembering? I'll go check the SRD.

[Bhu]

Theres no hard rule about it but it's assumed any Feats after Level 20 you can take Epic Feats if you qualify.

[Bhu]

Is there a predator that uses tail attacks?? If not I may have to switch the tail attacks to the herbivore/omnivore class i wanna do.

[LOTRfan]

If you mean nonfictional predators, I cannot recall any at the top of my head.

If you include those in fiction, well, there's dragons, battletitans, and.... that's basically all I can recall.

[Lyndworm]

In reality there's thresher sharks, but that's not really what you're after. Crocodylians use their tails as defensive weapons, but that's probably also not what you''re after.

[Bhu]

Well this class is primarily for predators. If their tail is still usable as a weapon they can train with it, I'm just wondering how many would cause that will influence what I do Maneuver wise.

[LOTRfan]

There definitely aren't many. That seems to be a mainly defensive strategy, like elephants, sauropods, equines, and other herbivores (along with predators that eat small fish, like dolphins and whales).

[Mulletmanalive]

i can't think of any meat eating species that use their tail for agression in the vertebrates.

Stingrays use it primarily defensively [though in ambush], several kinds of prawn and lobster use it to make stunning attacks and i've seen lemurs hit thing in the face with theirs. Also seen housecats use their tails to blind dogs...

Scorpions are an obvious exception, though they're vermin. Are prawns vermin?

[LOTRfan]

Prawns are very distantly related to crabs, so they are vermin, as well.

[LOTRfan]

Woo, for the first time in a long time, three monsters in a week!

I am still in the process of making the other two elemental dinos, so in the meantime, here's a ceratopsian.
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Yinlong
Small Animal
Hit Dice: 2d8
Initiative: +0
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 13 (+1 size, +2 natural), touch 11, flatfooted 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-2
Attack: Headbutt +3 melee (1d3+1)
Full Attack: Headbutt +3 melee (1d3+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Powerful Charge
Special Qualities: Lowlight vision, scent
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +0
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 11, Con 14, Int 1, Wis 10, Cha 7
Skills: Listen +3, Spot +2
Feats: Run
Environment: Warm plains
Organization: pair, family (2-4), or herd (5-22)
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: 3-4 HD (Small); 5-8 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: -----

Amidst the open plains, severally small, bone-headed creatures can be seen. They are running around, grazing on a variety of ferns. They have tannish-brown skin, and small spines along their back.

Yinlong are ancient, tiny ceratopsians, possibly the oldest of their kind. They are very similar to a variety of other lizards, with the exception of a bony head that extends towards the back. It is likely this is the beginning of a form of frill. Yinlong are small herbivores often preyed upon by raptor-sized creatures, such as Guanlong.

Yinlong are extremely fast and durable for their size. This is probably to help ensure its survival from its bloodthirsty predators. Unlike other ceratopsians, Yinlong are bipedal. Yinlong are about 4 ft. in length.

Combat
Yinlong rarely fight creatures larger than it, but if they are threatened, they will charge with their heads, similar to the tactics of a pachycephalosaur (this has led people to assume the two creature types are somehow related).

Powerful Charge (Ex): When making a headbutt attack as part of a charge, the Yinlong deals 2d4+2 damage instead of the usual 1d3+1.

As Animal Companions
Yinlong can be selected as an animal companion by a 1st level Druid, or a 4th level ranger.

[LOTRfan]

here's another creature. Also, as of this point, this thread has had over 10,000 views. This is by far the most successful thread I have ever started.



Junggarsuchus
Small Animal
Hit Dice: 1d8+2 (6 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+3 natural, +1 size, +2 Dex), touch 13, flatfooted 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-2
Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+2)
Full Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved Grab
Special Qualities: Scent, low light vision
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +1
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 2
Skills: Move Silently +6
Feats: Endurance
Environment: Warm Plains
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: 2-3 HD (Small)
Level Adjustment: -----

An odd form of crocodilian wanders by under the bushes. It looks superficially similar to a scaly, naked coyote.

Junggarsuchus is an ancient form of crocodilian, originating from a time where others of its kind had not yet adapted for the amphibious lifestyle for which they are famous today. Being the ancestor of modern crocodilians, Junggarsuchus is unique in that it is among the oldest land-based reptilian species in existence (perhaps even older than the original true dragons).

Junggarsuchus are very aggressive, and extremely fast. Although their numbers may be extremely small now, they can be credited with evolving into the most successful creatures to ever walk the Material Plane. Junggarsuchus is about 3 ft. long.

Combat
Junggarsuchus may not have the water-adapted body of their larger descendants, but they still have the large mouth, perfect for grabbing prey. Like others of their kind, they violently roll over and shake their head when grappling prey, in an attempt to shred their flesh.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a Junggarsuchus must hit a creature of its size or smaller with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, the Junggarsuchus establishes a hold on the opponent with its mouth.

[Bhu]

There are many dino fans LOTR

[Bhu]

Okay I'll work on the fighting styles when I get the rest of the ToB Primordial Classes up (I think this'll prolly be the only one). I'm almost done with this next one


PRIMORDIAL DEFENDER



"Back off. Now."

A Primordial Defender is usually an Awakened herbivore or herd creature. They defend their people from predators and attackers or any outside threats. Mostly by being bigger and tougher than anything else that comes their way.

MAKING A PRIMORDIAL DEFENDER
You are a melee fighting monster unless you have Racial Abilities that allow you to do other things. You will want to concentrate on this because it will be how your character will be defending his family (or in this case the party).
Abilities: Primordial Defenders will want a High Con and Strength. Most will be serious tanks as opposed to agile skirmishers, but if their Dex is high enough they can play that role. A high Wis to avoid ambushes helps, as well as a decent Cha to intimidate opponents.
Races: The Primordial Defender class is most popular among awakened dinosaurs that were herbivorous. It is sometimes seen in Magical Beasts but usually Awakened Animals gravitate towards it.
Alignment: Primordial Defenders tend to be Lawful Neutral, Neutral, or Lawful Good. Theoretically they can be any alignment but Evil or Chaotic Primordial Defenders are virtually unknown.
Starting Gold: As Paladin
Starting Age: As Paladin

Class Skills
The Primordial Defender's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Local), Listen (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str).
Skills Per Day at 1st Level : (4 + int)x4
Skills Per Day at Each Additional Level : 4 + int

Hit Dice: d10

 BAB Fort Ref Will Abilities  
1. +1 +2 +0 +0 Transitioning, Stubborness, Fighting Practice 
2. +2 +3 +0 +0 Uncanny Toughness 
3. +3 +3 +1 +1 Deterrance 
4. +4 +4 +1 +1 
5. +5 +4 +1 +1 Primordial Feat 
6. +6 +5 +2 +2 Improved Uncanny Toughness 
7. +7 +5 +2 +2 State of Readiness 
8. +8 +6 +2 +2 
9. +9 +6 +3 +3 Primordial Feat 
10.+10 +7 +3 +3 
11.+11 +7 +3 +3 Keep them at Bay 
12.+12 +8 +4 +4 
13.+13 +8 +4 +4 Primordial Feat 
14.+14 +9 +4 +4 
15.+15 +9 +5 +5 Hit where it Hurts 
16.+16 +10 +5 +5 
17.+17 +10 +5 +5 Primordial Feat 
18.+18 +11 +6 +6 
19.+19 +11 +6 +6 
20.+20 +12 +6 +6 Primordial Tank

 Maneuvers Known Maneuvers Readied Stances Known 
1. 3 3 1 
2. 4 3 1 
3. 5 3 1 
4. 5 4 2 
5. 6 4 2 
6. 6 4 2 
7. 7 4 2 
8. 7 4 2 
9. 8 4 2 
10. 8 5 3 
11. 9 5 3 
12. 9 5 3 
13. 10 5 3 
14. 10 5 3 
15. 11 6 3 
16. 11 6 4 
17. 12 6 4 
18. 12 6 4 
19. 13 6 4 
20. 13 7 4

Weapon Proficiencies: Primordial Defenders are proficient with their Natural Weapons. They are not proficient with Armor or Shields.

Maneuvers: Pretty much identical to the text listed for Warblade on page 21 of the Tome of Battle. Except instead of several Disciplines to choose from, your available Maneuvers will depend on your Natural Weapons and physical form.

Maneuvers Readied: Identical to text on Warblade on page 21 of the Tome of Battle

Stances Known: Identical to text for Warblade on page 22 of the Tome of Battle.

Stubborness (Ex): As long as you aren't flat-footed you gain an Insight Bonus to Willpower Saves equal to your Wisdom modifier (cannot be higher than Primordial Defender level).

Fighting Practice (Ex): You may take Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization with your Primary Natural Attack as if your Primordial Defender levels were Fighter levels.

Transitioning (Ex): Upon taking your first level as a Primordial Defender you may "exchange" your Racial Hit Dice for levels of Primordial Defender. You may exchange a number of Racial Hit Dice equal to your Constitution Modifier for levels in Primordial Defender at 1st level. Whenever you gain enough experience to gain a new level in Primordial Defender you may exchange 3 more Racial Hit Dice for levels of Primordial Defender until they have all been converted. If you have no Racial Hit Dice this ability does nothing for you.

Uncanny Toughness (Ex): 3 times per day you can reroll a result of '1' on a Fortitude Saving Throw.

Deterrance (Ex): The Critical Multiplier of your Primary Natural Weapon increases from x2 to x3.

Improved Uncanny Toughness (Ex): 3 times per day you may now reroll a result on any Fortitude Saving Throw.

State of Readiness (Ex): At 7th level you get an Insight Bonus equal to your Wisdom modifier to attack rolls when you have Readied an Attack action.

Keep Them At Bay (Ex): At 11th level if you have an Attack Action Readied, you may always make an Attack of Opportunity against a foe making one of the following Attacks, even if they have a Feat or Ability that says you normally can't do so: Grapple, Bull Rush, Overrun, Trip, or Charge.

Hit Where It Hurts (Ex): At 15th level you gain an Insight Bonus equal to your Wisdom Modifier on Damage rolls with your Primary Natural Weapon.

Primordial Feat: At 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th levels the Primordial Defender gets a Bonus Feat from the following list if it meets the prerequisites:

Primordial Tank (Ex): Whenever you are using a Stance that increases your AC or DR, it increases it by +4 more (for AC) or +2 more (for DR). For example if a Stance normally gives you +4 to AC it now gives you +8. If it gives you DR 2/-, it now gives you DR 4/-.

PLAYING A PRIMORDIAL DEFENDER Other beings outside your immediate circle are not to be trusted. Despite being newly sentient your paranoia has only increased instead of being abated because you understand just how dangerous the world is now. It's not that people can't earn your trust, but they definitely have to *earn* it. Religion: Primordial Defenders may or may not worship Gods. Those that do gravitate towards Gods or Healing and Protection. They tend to gravitate more towards deities than predatory awakened animals because of their obsession over protecting the community.
Other Classes: Primordial Defenders prefer other classes that don't remind them of predators, so most Rogue types are out as well as most Chaotic types like Barbarians. They pretty much think of most spellcasters as trouble too. Clerics, Paladins, and protectors of communities are accepted as well as they have earned the trust of the Defenders.
Combat: Combat varies a lot for members of this class and depends greatly on their physiology. Most will have a single attack per round with their natural weaponry, so it would behoove players to make sure they have plenty of attacks of opportunity, enhance their single attack, or some other abilities that let them combo like Cleave.
Advancement: Advancement in this class depends a lot on what fighting style you'll be using (i.e. what your body allows for). Primordial Defenders tend to concentrate on protecting others, and being extraordinarily hard to put down. It's what they excel at given that most are pretty darn big.

PRIMORDIAL DEFENDERS IN THE WORLD "Leave that lil dino alone boy. You don't wanna meet his paw." Primordial Defenders interact with the world as they always have (i.e. by beating the unholy living crap out of anything approaching their herd). It takes a while after awakening for most animals to become used to seeing things in terms other than the predator/prey/potential danger relationship. Eventually some may be able to relate to other beings unlike themselves as friends but it takes time and effort. It also helps if they realize you don't consider them or their children food.
Daily Life: You are on daily lookout duty. If anything approaches that looks dangerous you crush it and worry about it later. If something needs investigating, you take care of it as long as there are enough of you to successfully guard the herd.
Notables: Make up some cool information about notable figures in the history of your class. It's best to give a little information from one of the good alignment and evil alignment (unless it's a good or evil only class).
Organizations: Druids hire on Primordial Defenders as guards, personal bodyguards, and sometimes as assault troops due to their huge size.

NPC Reaction
People are terrified of Primordial Defenders. Most of you are huge, probably armored, and you seem fairly eager to hurt anything different from yourself.

PRIMORDIAL DEFENDERS IN THE GAME This class will make Awakened Animals or Magical Beasts with Racial Hit dice quite a bit more dangerous than they already are, but their inherent limitations mean that isn't much of a problem.
Adaptation: Primordial Defenders are best for all good campaigns, or all herbivore campaigns. Otherwise there will be some issues between them and other party members.
Encounters: Primordial Defenders will generally be encountered defending herds of Awakened species or possibly even small would be civilizations of the same.


EPIC PRIMORDIAL DEFENDER

Hit Die: d10
Skills Points at Each Level : 4 + int
Maneuvers The Primordial Defenderrs Initiator Level is equal to her Class Level. The number of Maneuvers readied does not change after 20th Level, nor do you learn additional Maneuvers (except via Feats).
Bonus Feats: The Epic Primordial Defender gains a Bonus Feat every 2 levels higher than 20th

[Bhu]

Tweaked the Defender. You guys think it's okay as is? If so I'll add the Bonus Feat list and Epic Levels.

[hamishspence]

There's a couple of places where "Killer" rather than "Defender" is used- the alignment section and the skills section- but that's an easy fix.

[Blynkibrax]

I'm so glad to see more activity in this thread.

LOTRfan, I love the Terradactyl and eager await the Aquaceratops and whatever air-based dinosaur you manage to come up with.

Also, the Yinlong and Junggarsuchus are fascinating. I've never heard of them before, but they remind me of why I'm so interested in prehistoric creatures, they're so brilliantly weird.

[Bhu]

Were there any epic Levels done for the ToB classes?

[Lyndworm]

There are no epic ToB rules whatsoever. It's generally considered one of WotC's greatest failings.

[Bhu]

Crap. That means I'm on my own designing rules for these...

Gimme a couple days and I'll have something

[Callos_DeTerran]

Does the first post of this thread update to show the new content or no?

[LOTRfan]

I just spent the last twenty minutes updating the first post. Next time I've got to remember to update as I go, if only to make less work later.

Did you player ever get around to using the Azuvidexus vestige, by the way?

[Bhu]

EPic Levels are up, and I've rethought the Primordial fighting styles. I'll be reintroducing them next as soon as i figure out prerequisites as they'll only have one style weapon each, and no real linked skill like balance or jump.

[LOTRfan]

Does anyone here have any ideas for the aquaceratops or the Aerosaurus Rex?

[Bhu]

The aquaceratops would need lots of plants so have it live in the sargasso and use the weed as camouflage

[Blynkibrax]

Ooh, what if the aquaceratops is like a triceratops version of a leafy sea dragon?

Spoiler

Show

A body a bit like a whale or porpoise, but with a head like a triceratops, maybe with strange, leafy protrusions around the frill, flippers and along its back?

[Bhu]

The Aerosaurus could be an atmospheric beast http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_beast

[Bhu]

http://thedailywh.at/2011/05/29/anim...of-the-day-13/

You guys must see this

The next 3-4 weeks are gonna be tough for me time wise but after that i should be positng stuff

[Bhu]

Okay I'm behind in my online gig, so I need to work straight thru June to finish. I'll hopefully have bits here and htere to work on stuff, but if not I'll try again wit hteh Dino classes if this thread is too old to rez.

[LOTRfan]

Yikes, I didn't realize how long it has been since I posted last. I've been pretty busy recently (I'm always busy this type of year, that's what killed the LOTR thread ), but I intend to continue, even if things become even slower than before.

[Szilard]

Slowness is fine by me. You're stuff is awesomesaucetasticful.