Warhammer 40k Tabletop IX: "Mech is king? I never voted for it."

[Ricky S]

Here's some tips;
Ask him what he plays; Tailor your list to that army.
Lie about what army you play.
Misdirection; "Tau suck in close combat, right?", "Not mine."

My way of doing it; Don't tell them.
Proper responses to "What army do you play?"

"Write your list and then I'll tell you."
"I'll show you my list when you show me yours."
"An army better than yours."
"Your Mum's." Next thread title; Playing Your Mum's army?

That last one is pretty funny. But sometimes doesn't go over well. Long story short, your opponent should never know what army you're playing until your Deployment Phase. Or in a tournament setting where its too late to change.

I'm not too fussed about it. Well sometimes I am. However if it is only a friendly game and if I can beat them even when they have stacked up on things to ruin my fun then I have proved that I am the better general.

I have a story about the "Your mum" thing. I was watching a game between orks and sister of battle and the sister player was being really obnoxious, gloating when winning, sulking when losing, and generally bad mouthing the orks the entire game.
Ork: Damn that unit really sucks (implying they were really good)
SoB: Your mum really sucks.
At that the ork player just lost it. He literally rage quit. Which was hilarious because he had to still pack away his 100+ model army. I have to admit that the SoB player was a real jerk. No one wanted to play him at all after that. I believe the whole thing started from a rules disagreement. This is a perfect example of what not to do when playing warhammer

I have started working on my bike command squad. I have visions of them riding across the battle field like knights of the future... I am going to give them "Power spears" and storm shields that look funnily like the dark elf shields. I dont have any power weapons or lightning claws to give them but I have a heap of spears and shields left over from my dark elf spearmen. Damn I love plastic models they make conversions so much easier.

-Can you give a command squad veteran a power weapon and storm shield as well as a special weapon?
-Can you give your Company standard bearer a special weapon or power weapon as well?
-Can you give a biker dual lightning claws?
I have seen the above in some army lists but I am not sure whether they're legal.

Thanks

[Ninja Chocobo]

It was a web-series long before it was on TV. Which I watched long before there was a TV Series. Then I saw an ad for it and I was pretty excited.

Also, it's on a channel that not too many people watch. So it is obscure - even in Australia.

Web series (which I watched too) or not, I really don't think you can claim something's obscure when it's being shown on international television. Similarly, I don't think quoting five year old memes counts towards "nerd cred".

List-tailoring is a personal bugbear of mine. I believe that if you design an army with knowledge of a specific opponent in mind, that is tailoring.
Example: If I know I am playing a Tau player, and I take Snikrot, that is tailoring.
If I know I am playing someone, and that there are a lot of Tau players in the area, and I take Snikrot, that is not tailoring.
It is not difficult to design an 'all-comers' list, especially if you consider the local environment; if everyone and their dog runs Land Raiders, it would be foolish to load up on Autocannons.

Fake edit: It's the difference between "My friend plays Tau, how do I beat him?" and "How do I beat a Tau army?".

[Renegade Paladin]

List-tailoring is a personal bugbear of mine. I believe that if you design an army with knowledge of a specific opponent in mind, that is tailoring.
Example: If I know I am playing a Tau player, and I take Snikrot, that is tailoring.

Rubbish. If your army is being deployed against Tau, your army's probably going to know it; why would they bring ineffective units to bear?

[Ninja Chocobo]

Rubbish. If your army is being deployed against Tau, your army's probably going to know it; why would they bring ineffective units to bear?

Because you get a better game that way.
Wargamers have been sacrificing verisimilitude for the sake of good gameplay since the hobby began. Why stop here?

[Winterwind]

Web series (which I watched too) or not, I really don't think you can claim something's obscure when it's being shown on international television. Similarly, I don't think quoting five year old memes counts towards "nerd cred".

Well, I had never heard it made it to TV (in Australia or elsewhere) - I always only knew it as web series.

List-tailoring is a personal bugbear of mine. I believe that if you design an army with knowledge of a specific opponent in mind, that is tailoring.
Example: If I know I am playing a Tau player, and I take Snikrot, that is tailoring.
If I know I am playing someone, and that there are a lot of Tau players in the area, and I take Snikrot, that is not tailoring.
It is not difficult to design an 'all-comers' list, especially if you consider the local environment; if everyone and their dog runs Land Raiders, it would be foolish to load up on Autocannons.

Fake edit: It's the difference between "My friend plays Tau, how do I beat him?" and "How do I beat a Tau army?".

That's pretty much exactly my own attitude towards list tailoring as well.

[Closet_Skeleton]

+1 Str affects poison CC weapons as having the same strength or higher as the target's toughness gives you re-rolls to wound. If they FAQ the agoniser to be a poison weapon (this is just supposition to make the Llhamean better) +1 Str might get a whole lot better.

The only poison CC weapons you get anyway are on haemonculi units (can't be combined with drugs) or the venom blade (wounds on 2+). So it isn't that exciting.

If the agoniser was poison then it would give the archon an I7 power fist, except for the instant death thing.

Hopefully. Since at the moment, the Llhamean is mandatory, yet totally useless apart from making a shooty Archon...Which you can't even do.

If you were, you'd take a blast pistol anyway, for killing transports so you can assault the guys inside. A blast pistol is only 6" range, but that's also your assault range.

Maybe if the Llhamean affected the entire retinue? Would that make the Sslythes too good?

Since the Lhaemean is mandatory, you might as well just give the rule to the sslythes, since killing the lhaemean doesn't take the bonus away from the archon as its written.

Lhaemeans aren't really bad for 10 points, with warrior stats and 2 poisoned attacks. They just feel subpar in what you want to be an elite unit. They're only terrible compared to sslythes, which are decent close combat and shooting all-rounders.

Rubbish. If your army is being deployed against Tau, your army's probably going to know it; why would they bring ineffective units to bear?

My brother once complained when I played orks after he'd built his list to fight chaos space marines, thinking I was going to use the latter instead. He still tabled me.

[Cheesegear]

Can you give a command squad veteran a power weapon and storm shield as well as a special weapon?

No. You can give them a Power Weapon Lightning Claw and Flamer, as well as a Storm Shield. The difference is subtle.

Can you give your Company standard bearer a special weapon or power weapon as well?

Yes. Only the Apothecary and Company Champion can't have extra gear, because they aren't Veterans. Which begs the question of why you'd want to upgrade to Company Champion anyway?

Can you give a biker dual lightning claws?

Yes.

[Arcanoi]

Yes. Only the Apothecary and Company Champion can't have extra gear, because they aren't Veterans. Which begs the question of why you'd want to upgrade to Company Champion anyway?

You get +1WS and a Combat Shield for free. Arguably not a terrible idea, since you save points not buying a Storm Shield, but if you're trying to keep the squad cheap, you should probably look elsewhere than Company Command on Bikes.

[Closet_Skeleton]

You get +1WS and a Combat Shield for free. Arguably not a terrible idea, since you save points not buying a Storm Shield, but if you're trying to keep the squad cheap, you should probably look elsewhere than Company Command on Bikes.

Combat shields are terrible in 5th ed codexes, only granting a 6+ invulnerable save rather than the 5+ they used to give. Which makes no sense compared to the 5th edition storm shield boost.

Blood Champions are okay since they can get furious charge (but are 5 more points and I want a thunder hammer so I don't take one), but for a regular command squad you're better off going the full price for the storm shield, since yours are only 15 points rather than 20 like Blood Angels ones.

[Ricky S]

No. You can give them a Power Weapon Lightning Claw and Flamer, as well as a Storm Shield. The difference is subtle.

Yes. Only the Apothecary and Company Champion can't have extra gear, because they aren't Veterans. Which begs the question of why you'd want to upgrade to Company Champion anyway?

Yes.

The difference is so subtle I can't tell what it is.

Well as much as I want to equip them with lightning claws I just dont have them available. I might buy the lightning claws from the space marines bits online but more likely I will just go with power weapons. Although if I did get lightning claws and had a chappy on a bike with the unit can you imagine how potent it would be? Of course it would be a massive points sink but it would be great fun.

I never take a company champion unless I am going for a cheap command squad. They aren't that great for the reason you already stated.

[Closet_Skeleton]

A lightning claw is just a power fist with blades on it. You can convert them relatively simply.

[Ricky S]

A lightning claw is just a power fist with blades on it. You can convert them relatively simply.

Haha that brings about the same problem. I dont have any power fists.

[Winterwind]

You could try simply getting a pack full of Lightning Claws. Granted, those bitz packs are never cheap, but at least if one gets them one doesn't run out of whichever part it was too soon anymore.

[Klose_the_Sith]

1. Purchase box of Assault Terminators
2. Make them into Hammernators
3. Holy **** you have 10 lightning claws ... also Hammernators.

[Winterwind]

Slightly more expensive if all one wants are the claws, but yeah, that approach is valid, too.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Slightly more expensive if all one wants are the claws, but yeah, that approach is valid, too.

You get 10 plastic Lightning claw, plus Hammernators. Now all you need is another box of them and your friends can start really hating you

[Cheesegear]

You get 10 plastic Lightning claw, plus Hammernators. Now all you need is another box of them and your friends can start really hating you

I normally buy a box of Assault Terminators, and a box of regular Terminators. You have enough parts to make ten Assault Terminators, and you get the Sergeant parts out of the regular Terminator box.

You use the Storm Bolter ammo cartridges to make Sternguns and you use the rest of the SB-sans-ammo clip to make plastic Grey Knights.

[Ogremindes]

You use the Storm Bolter ammo cartridges to make Sternguns

You don't think just painting tactical marines as veterans cuts it?

[Cheesegear]

You don't think just painting tactical marines as veterans cuts it?

Well, I don't. But, my modelling standards are kind of through the roof. And I like my models looking like Sternguard. Not looking like Tactical Marines that are painted as Veterans.

Oh, right. And the regular Terminator box comes with a Heavy Flamer, which, with the help of a Multi-Melta backpack from the Devastator sprue (you didn't put together a useless Multi-Melta marine, right?) turns into a Heavy Flamer for your Sternguard.

[Ricky S]

1. Purchase box of Assault Terminators
2. Make them into Hammernators
3. Holy **** you have 10 lightning claws ... also Hammernators.

Alas I dont actually need Hammernators. I am trying to build a bike army so they would be next to useless. I shall see if anyone at the local store doesnt need their lightning claws seeing as hammernators are so popular now.

I did indeed see the bitz pack they have online but at $37 I will give it a miss. I really need that money to purchase more bikes before I worry about lightning claws.

[Renegade Paladin]

Alas I dont actually need Hammernators. I am trying to build a bike army so they would be next to useless. I shall see if anyone at the local store doesnt need their lightning claws seeing as hammernators are so popular now.

I did indeed see the bitz pack they have online but at $37 I will give it a miss. I really need that money to purchase more bikes before I worry about lightning claws.

You could always get bits from a secondary seller. I put in an order for a large grab bag from the War Store yesterday as part of taking advantage of their Black Friday sale; hopefully there will be stuff I can use, and I'm going to hawk off what I can't at the store.

[Winterwind]

Our local Games Workshop shop also regularly has bits sales, where they will just pool all their left-over bits into a large chest and people can search it for whatever pieces they want and purchase them based on weight (I'm not sure about the price, as I have never found anything I wanted in there, but I'm given to understand it is much, much cheaper than buying the stuff regularly). Perhaps your local shop has something like that, too?

[Cheesegear]

Our local Games Workshop shop also regularly has bits sales, where they will just pool all their left-over bits into a large chest and people can search it for whatever pieces they want and purchase them based on weight

My jaw just hit the ground. This is the single-most amazing thing that I've ever heard of. And it makes me terribly upset that none of the G-dub stores that I've ever been to have had anything like this.

[Ricky S]

My jaw just hit the ground. This is the single-most amazing thing that I've ever heard of. And it makes me terribly upset that none of the G-dub stores that I've ever been to have had anything like this.

I concur! That sounds friggin awesome. I wish my local GW had a bits sale.

I have experienced these sort of things only twice. The first was one boxing day. They poured out the entire year's worth of bits onto the table and people could take anything they wanted. I however played only fantasy at the time and only took a couple of catachan guys because they looked cool. I wish I knew how valuable power fists and lightning claws were.

The second was when the new blood angels were released they had a couple of boxes of assault marines so that people could each build and paint an assault marine. I got a power weapon.

[Renegade Paladin]

Rules question: Does the Airborne Assault special operations rule available to Storm Troopers work in conjunction with the Valkyrie's grav chute insertion ability? Pointing against is the fact that it isn't deep striking, but in favor is that the grav chute insertion rule says the unit is deployed as though deep striking, in addition to the fact that the rule is called Airborne Assault, for crying out loud.

To stack it up even more, if I load a unit of storm troopers with Airborne Assault onto a Valkyrie and deploy it via deep strike from reserve, does it get to reroll the scatter dice and then reroll them again when it drops the troopers? Yes, I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to that one. :p

[Penguinizer]

Our store has a "You take some you leave some" rule on the bitsbox. There isn't too much good stuff in it, but you can still find some nice things.

[Cheesegear]

Rules question: Does the Airborne Assault special operations rule available to Storm Troopers work in conjunction with the Valkyrie's grav chute insertion ability?

Yes. That's why you put Storm Troopers in a Valkyrie.

To stack it up even more, if I load a unit of storm troopers with Airborne Assault onto a Valkyrie and deploy it via deep strike from reserve, does it get to reroll the scatter dice and then reroll them again when it drops the troopers?

The Valkyrie drops. The Stormtroopers don't confer their bonus to the transport. Then they just get out normally. You don't need to roll a Scatter in the first place because the Valkyrie hasn't moved Flat Out on that turn, so Grav Chute rules don't even come into effect.

[Renegade Paladin]

The Valkyrie drops. The Stormtroopers don't confer their bonus to the transport. Then they just get out normally. You don't need to roll a Scatter in the first place because the Valkyrie hasn't moved Flat Out on that turn, so Grav Chute rules don't even come into effect.

I meant if I dropped them in a later turn, but it was mainly a joke question; I figured the rule didn't apply to their transport since rules that do tend to say so.

[DaedalusMkV]

My jaw just hit the ground. This is the single-most amazing thing that I've ever heard of. And it makes me terribly upset that none of the G-dub stores that I've ever been to have had anything like this.

All of the Canadian stores run something like this twice a year. They get all of their excess bits, opened boxes and damaged models out, as well as usually a couple of nifty deals for the people who get there early, and invite everyone who wants to come to bring their own unwanted stuff. They sell bits by randomly-mixed bag rather than by bulk, but both of the bags I bought had some good stuff in them, and the gamers tend to trade or sell by whatever you need ad-hoc. For people who like conversions and modelling, or just getting a good deal on models, it's absolutely the single best event of the year. I picked up an assembled Leman Russ and 20 unassembled Guardsmen for $40 total at the last one, not to mention some very rare bitz (between two bags I got Commissar Gaunt, 5 Plasma Rifles, 3 Meltas and 8 assorted flamethrowers). I wonder when the next one is...

[Penguinizer]

The last time I was at my LGS playing 40k, the owner just pretty much dropped a beat up Chimera that they had found on the table for me and said "It's yours if you can salvage it."

I've been meaning to get around to it, but it's salvageable. I think.