Warhammer 40k Tabletop IX: "Mech is king? I never voted for it."

[Tazar]

Really? I thought HTs still were, at least. Guess I forgot about that.

I can always still do it to my friends using Abbadon or Lysander for laughs, I suppose.

[Renegade Paladin]

Oooooold topic, but considering I'm going for mechanized Guard and eventually branching out into armored tactics...

As promised, the Imperial Guard Amour.
As always, feel free to tell me if I'm wrong or misguided. I encourage it.

Things You Should Know

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First, read this again.

Second, since we are playing Imperial Guard, we always need to consider the basic Infantry Squad; 50 Points
Grenade Launcher and Heavy Bolter; 65 Points - Anti-Infantry
Plasmagun and Autocannon; 75 Points - 'All Comers'
Plasmagun and Lascannon; 85 Points - Anti-Tank

However, what sets Infantry Squads apart from vehicles is the ability to receive Orders, as well as being a Troops choice. Then, in Annhilation games (or, whenever you want) you have the option for Combining Squads to deny your opponent Kill Points, and/or to enable maximum efficiency of your Orders.

Any time you want to take a Tank, look at it's Point Cost, and decide how many like Infantry Squads you could get for the same price.

Lastly, Vehicle Squadrons; Read up on page 64 of your Rulebook.
All Crew Stunned results count as Crew Shaken. Essentially, vehicles in Squadrons get free Extra Armour. However, all Immobilised results count as Destroyed (Wrecked), meaning your opponent can now destroy your vehicles with Glancing Hits.

As vehicle squadrons, all vehicles must fire at the same target. As tanks, this will lead to massive overkill. Or, inefficiency of fire. You want to spread your Pie Plates over as many units as possible, don't you? Or, at least you might want the choice to.

Also, Hits are taken against the Squadron. And you have to allocate hits before you roll on the damage table. Instead of 3 Hits on one vehicle, you're taking 1-2 Hits each. This can end well, or catastrophically bad.

Not to mention that sometimes it's really hard to get tanks to fit on the table with coherency of 4".

When you start to combine these things, you realise that you should probably never take vehicles in Squadrons if you have Force Organisation slots to spare. Spread out your tanks. You don't really lose anything by doing so. But, you gain individual effectiveness. Of course, this may backfire in Annihilation. But, at the same time, you've got multiple tanks. It rarely goes wrong.

Nothing to say here from me, really, but I'm including for completeness' sake if anyone else has anything to say. Though in the post you linked at the top of the spoiler, I should point out that while Armor 14 doesn't quite equal T11 thanks to glancing hits, it is still awesome.

The Chimera

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Ah, the Chimera...
It has FA 12. But, SA 10. If you can get it into a good spot, and get concealment or something, you'll be alright. Don't expect it to last too long. Use the Smoke Launchers.

The Chimera's real bonus comes in the fact that - like most IG tanks - it comes with two weapons. One of which is a Multi-Laser. Which are almost as good as Eldar Scatter Lasers. And, anyone on that receiving end knows how that feels. It can then follow that up with a Heavy Bolter. No matter which weapons you want, they're all 'Free'. Which is pretty great.

The Chimera also have five Fire Points. And doesn't count as Open-Topped. Ever. Most IG units wont be able to have much fun with that since they all have Lasguns. However, it does open the door for Daemon/Witch Hunter shenanigans, since those armies have terrible (2 Fire Points), expensive, occaisionally Open-Topped Chimeras which they don't really like.

The Chimera's real, real bonus comes in the fact that it's a Command Vehicle, and your Officers can issue Orders from said tank. Giving your valuable Order-givers extra protection.
However, note that units inside a Chimera can not receive Orders.

Well, considering I have six sitting on my desk in varying states of assembly as I type...

I'm mechanizing all my infantry, which means that if they all stay in their Chimeras, they'll have problems with orders from the command Chimera. I was rather planning on using the Chimeras to deploy them to objectives on the double and camp down in cover on them (objectives in the games at the local store tend to be set up in or around terrain pieces), hence making them able to receive orders, but the five fire points are also tempting, especially to veterans with meltaguns. RE: using for rapid infantry deployment. Good idea/bad idea?

Sentinels

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Probably the only vehicle where Squadrons are worth it. Always take 3 per squadron.

Scout Sentinel
They can Scout/Outflank, and Move Through Cover. This is awesome. They also come with the aforementioned Multi-Lasers, for free. At 35 Points each, these guys are a steal. The only thing worth upgrading to is the Autocannon. For 40 points each. Maybe Heavy Flamers and/or Camo Netting if you plan on using MTC a lot.

Turning up on your opponent's flank with 9, S6 shots or 6, S7 shots or 3 Heavy Flamer templates doesn't get old.

Armoured Sentinel

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Vehicle Squadrons get Extra Armour for free. Armoured Sentinels cost exactly the same points as a Chimera, for less weapons and no Transport Capacity. Armoured Sentinels lose Scout (and so have nothing in their rule-set that should indicate that they're Fast Attack).
Their one bonus comes in the fact that they can have Plasma Cannons for a total of 75 Points each...Wait, I know that number...Can't you have an Infantry Squad with Plasmagun and Autocannon for the same points? And by the transitive property, afford multiple Squads for the price of multiple Sentinels (of which you have at least 3 of because Sentinels don't work in squads of less)? You can! So...Plasma Cannons are not really a bonus at all.
...At least ASs are better than Rough Riders...

Ultimately, both types of Sentinel are outlclassed by just about anything after 1000 points. 1500 if you're generous. Which this author isn't. Sentinels are not 'real' Walkers and don't have the option of S10 Power Weapons in Assault which makes them a little bit bad. However, if you've taken one - just one - Weapon Destroyed result that makes them useless, you can start tying up units in Assault that can't hurt your AV10 (or 12 if you've taken ASs).

Wasn't planning on taking walkers anyway.

Hellhounds

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All Hellhounds are Fast. Get excited. And nothing on these tanks is comparable to an Infantry Squad.

Hellhound
Nope. You don't even need to roll To Hit. You just place it somewhere within 12". You don't even need to line it up with the turret. Due to the wording, you can get some near-sideways action on the template, despite the fact that the tank looks nothing like it's shooting that way.

Devil Dog
It's turret-weapon is Melta, Blast. And the tank is Fast. For +45 points, it's worth upgrading all your Armoured Sentinels with Plasma Cannons to Devil Dogs.

Bane Wolf
It's turret-weapon is S1. Which makes it defensive. And Heavy Flamers are free on Hellhound tanks. The Chem Cannon auto-hits, being a Template weapon. Wounds anything on a 2+. And, as AP3, ignores just about all saves in the game, as a Template weapon, it also ignores Cover Saves, then, follow it up with a Heavy Flamer template. It's fun. You should try it.

All Hellhound tanks are 'worth it'. None of them are bad.

Don't have any yet, or plans for any in any of my current conceptual lists. Will probably change that and make a lightning assault oriented list using them, but I don't want to buy too many models too quickly here.

Gunships

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Gunships are Fast, Skimmers that Scout/Outflank or Deep Strike. And have a transport capacity of 12. They can carry Grey Knights, and also Grey Knight Terminators if you want a punch in the face. FAQ'd out.
It's fun.
Gunships also have FA/SA 12 and Extra Armour. Gunships are basically everything Armoured Sentinels aren't.
...True LoS rules and the giant flight stands are not nice to Gunships.

Valkyrie
Have a Multi-Laser. You'll want to upgrade to Multiple Rocket Pods just about every time for the Large Blast Defensive weapons. They're lots of fun off an Outflank. Especially if they've got Storm Troopers or Veterans with Meltaguns inside. Or Sisters of Battle, or Grey Knights...

Vendetta
It's the anti-armour equivalent of the Valkyrie. Due to the fact that none of it's weapons are less than S5, it makes it rubbish as a Fast vehicle, and therefore not quite as good of a Transport vehicle than the Valkyrie. Vendettas are mostly used as armoured Triple-Lascannon Heavy Weapon Teams that get Twin-Linked weapons all the time. Yeah; Vendettas are the are the reason you don't often see Lascannon teams.

If you have the currency to buy a Gunship. You should buy one. They're very impressive models in the first place. No Imperial Guard collection is truly complete without one - or three.
Vendettas require a little bit of conversion work to make, but, it's not really all that hard.

I currently have plans for an airborne assault list at 1500 points using Vendettas. Should I put some Valkyries into the mix to allow greater tactical flexibility, or stick with the lascannons?

Leman Russ

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The Imperial Guard's darling. It's Lumbering Behemoth rule makes them especially brutal as their turret-weapons essentially count as Defensive weapons and can always be fired. Even the Ordnance weapons. Upgrading to the Lascannon because of the above rule is quite often done. Sponsons are a bit too expensive.
FA/SA 14/13. Happy Face.

Battle Tank
S8 Ordnance. For 150 Points, you can't go wrong. The original tank. The best tank.

Exterminator
Trap. Take 2 Hydra Flak Tanks instead. Or two Autocannon Infantry Squads for the same points.

Vanquisher
*Shrug* The Devil Dog is slightly cheaper, is AP1 and Blast. If you really need the 72" range, take a Vanquisher. But, you don't really need that big a range. Or take a Demolisher. Or a Medusa.
Knight Commander Pask does not belong in a Vanquisher. Don't do it. It's a rookie mistake.

The following have RA 11, which is nice.

Demolisher
S10 Ordnance. It has shorter range. But, due to Lumbering Behemoth, this is mitigated somewhat. Second only to the standard Battle Tank.

Punisher
Trap. You could do the Math-Hammer on it. But, you don't need to. At AP-, even Orks will still get a save. It's almost worthless against models in cover or models with a decent save.
And it's 180 Points!? Take almost anything else instead.

Executioner
Not quite a Trap. But pretty close. Looks good on paper. But, Demolishers already exist if you want AP2 weapons and at better strength and Ordnance. You can take 2 Plsamagun/Lascannon squads for less points. Then Combine them for extra power. Then add Orders into the mix.

Okay, a few things here.

1.) You forgot the Eradicator. It's low Strength (for a tank's main gun) and low AP, but it strikes me that the ability to ignore cover saves is potentially huge. Thoughts?

2.) Don't put Pask in a Vanquisher? But that's exactly what GW did in their article on putting together a Leman Russ. More seriously, why not? It seems to me that if you're shooting a weapon that's pretty much going to kill a tank if it hits (extra d6 for armor penetration, meaning 2d6+8, average 15, 16 if you have Pask and the tank stayed still, when armor values max out at 14), you want to hit with that weapon; BS 4 is a large improvement. Regardless, the way the model is designed it's easy to switch between the battle cannon and Vanquisher cannon by simply switching out the piece on the end of the barrel, so it wouldn't be a fatal mistake to try it.

3.) The Punisher is overpriced, but then again I know people who will, upon seeing you pull out a given number of dice, just take the targeted unit off the board. It is intimidating, if nothing else. Probably won't do it, though.

Hydra Flak Tank Battery

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Nice. This author actually suspects that the only reason these aren't taken is because armies need at least some Troops. And after the first few Autocannon squads; Hydras become redundant. Definitely use these if you field Veterans though.

Some conversion work required. It's not hard.

It seems to me that the Hydra would be a godsend when fighting Dark Eldar, what with all the talk of zipping around in skimmers. Truth? One of the better players at the local store is picking up a DE army and I'd like to be able to send them packing.

Ordnance Battery

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Enclosed Crew Compartments should generally be paid for unless you're really strapped for points.

Basalisk
Enormous range. Backed up by an enormous 'dead-zone'. Just pay the extra 25 points for a Leman Russ Battle Tank. Or, about the same for Devil Dogs.

Medusa
Wow. These are what Leman Russ Vanquishers and Basalisks should be. Bastion-Breachers can be paid for without any real significant loss. No 'dead-zone' at all.

Colossus
Nice. It doesn't need LoS. Ignores Cover and AP3 for guaranteed kills and causes Pinning. It's also Ordnance (at S6). What else do you want?
It's a shame about it's slightly large 'dead zone'.
You could afford 6 Mortars for the same cost though and save on FO Slots

Griffon
It's 'dead-zone' isn't too huge. It's still a Barrage weapon, but allows cover saves and isn't AP3. It can re-roll Scatter though. And it's also cheap.
Good in low-point games. But gets out-classed pretty quickly though by the Colussus or Medusa. Or by taking Mortars when you want to save FO slots

1.) Basilisk.

2.) You've made a fairly large rules mistake here, one that I didn't see corrected in the thread this post was originally in. Ordnance Barrage weapons can choose to fire directly and ignore the minimum range, in which case they count as Ordnance and not Barrage, explicitly ignoring the minimum range entry; see page 58 of the WH40k rulebook. So the Basilisk's dead zone isn't nearly so much of an issue as you make it out to be, though I agree that it is just unnecessarily long ranged (20 feet?!?) for normal 40k games. Apocalypse, maybe. Might take one just to have the iconic Guard artillery and see if I can shell a neighboring game at the store just for giggles.

I agree completely with springing for enclosed crew compartments, for what that's worth. I'm also considering camo netting for added protection to relatively vulnerable (and valuable) big guns, but not sure if that's worth the points. Thoughts?

Manticore Rocket Launcher

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Like the Leman Russ Executioner; Not quite as bad as to be considered a Trap. But, it's still pretty bad. Medusas are cheaper. Even if you do include an Enclosed Crew Compartment. The jury still out on whether you can Weapon Destroy a Storm Eagle Rocket. Still, don't bother. Take Leman Russes or Medusas.

Deathstrike Missile Launcher

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*Facepalm* Worse than a trap. It only fires once. And probably not even then. And then Scatters. And then has a variable-size Blast. Just don't. Please.

Wasn't planning on either of these, though the Manticore would be a lot more tempting if it were just Ordnance Barrage 3, or even 2, rather than d3. I despise randomness in how many attacks or whether you get to attack; it makes planning difficult to impossible.

In general: Thoughts on the various pintle-mounted weapons? I'm sorely tempted by MOAR DAKKA!!1! (that can be fired on the move), but I'm not sure if a storm bolter (why don't they count as twin linked, again?) or heavy stubber is worth the 10 points. I'm tempted to say that they are, but then again if I do it for all my Chimeras, that's almost another veteran squad.

[hamishspence]

Niether of those is immune to instant death this edition. Nothing in the tyranid army is.

Does the Swarmlord not have Eternal Warrior?

[Razaele]

Does the Swarmlord not have Eternal Warrior?

Nope. Eternal Warrior would make him pretty much impossible to kill in Assault.

[Tazar]

Not that he isn't already.

If you find yourself trying to kill the Swarmlord in assault, chances are things have gone horribly, horribly wrong.

[IthilanorStPete]

Or you're playing Clash of Heroes. But that's what Mephiston is for!

[Tazar]

Or you're playing Clash of Heroes. But that's what Mephiston is for!

I'd probably throw Abbadon at him, personally; Mephi doesn't have an invulnerable save, correct? Does he have IW? Failbaddon may be a bit of a joke in the fluff, but he's lethally competent on the tabletop.

In any case, I'd much rather just pew pew him with lascannons until he falls over dead; much safer that way.

[IthilanorStPete]

I'd probably throw Abbadon at him, personally; Mephi doesn't have an invulnerable save, correct? Does he have IW? Failbaddon may be a bit of a joke in the fluff, but he's lethally competent on the tabletop.

In any case, I'd much rather just pew pew him with lascannons until he falls over dead; much safer that way.

Clash of Heroes has a rule that the enemy hero can't actually die except to your hero; in the game I played, I shot away the Swarmlord's Tyrant Guard, shot him down to 1 wound, then Mephiston jupmed out of his Razorback and stabbed him at I7.

[Tazar]

Clash of Heroes has a rule that the enemy hero can't actually die except to your hero; in the game I played, I shot away the Swarmlord's Tyrant Guard, shot him down to 1 wound, then Mephiston jupmed out of his Razorback and stabbed him at I7.

Aaah, right, forgot about that. In any case, sounds like you have a good plan there. I'd be a little afraid taking Mephi into combat against him if he wasn't low, though; I have a distressing tendency to flub even the easiest dice rolls. Makes me wonder why I exclusively play armies that rely on their good armor saves sometimes.

[crazedloon]

the best hero to go toe to toe with mephiston (or even swarmlord) is Vect at I 8 WS 8 proffered enemy and wounding on 3s with a power weapon with 7 attacks on the charge he has a good chance of killing him in the first round, and his 2+ invulnerable makes it so he will most likely make it to the second round to finish the job if he doesn't

[Tazar]

the best hero to go toe to toe with mephiston (or even swarmlord) is Vect at I 8 WS 8 proffered enemy and wounding on 3s with a power weapon with 7 attacks on the charge he has a good chance of killing him in the first round, and his 2+ invulnerable makes it so he will most likely make it to the second round to finish the job if he doesn't

Hmmm, good point. I always loved the idea of an Archon effortlessly ripping up a Hive Tyrant, hoping they haven't changed that too much in the new book!

[Wraith]

At least according to the codexes (what’s the plural on that again?) I have.

Codices

After a bit of checking, I've found you're right- Necrons were August 2002 and Daemonhunters were March 2003:

I'm not sure how I got them the wrong way round.

Possibly because some editions of Daemonhunters *are*dated 2002? I know for sure that mine is. Maybe it's because mine is a British edition rather than US?

[hamishspence]

Maybe they were printed months in advance and the date on them was the date of printing?

[lord_khaine]

So, i recently consideret using Autach in my Eldar army, since i cant afford jetbikes, where then is the second best place to put him?

I was myself considering either with the guardians, carrying a reaper launcer, or in a wave serpent with the seer council.

[Erloas]

So, i recently consideret using Autach in my Eldar army, since i cant afford jetbikes, where then is the second best place to put him?

I was myself considering either with the guardians, carrying a reaper launcer, or in a wave serpent with the seer council.

A reminder of your list might help. I've only used my Autarch on a jetbike, but mostly just because thats what I've got the model for, and he works very well for me that way.

I don't think a seer council needs his help, and at least the way I use my guardians he wouldn't work there, at least not if equipped with a heavy weapon.

[lord_khaine]

Gahh, have to start on the new list then

I just recently got the idea to try both Autach and a Seer council in my Eldar army

[Cheesegear]

So, i recently consideret using Autach in my Eldar army, since i cant afford jetbikes, where then is the second best place to put him?

Dire Avengers.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Not that he isn't already.

If you find yourself trying to kill the Swarmlord in assault, chances are things have gone horribly, horribly wrong.

Meh, only time I fought him I killed him in assault with a troops choice (an a HQ, but the HQ did only half the work at best).

But yeah, shoot him when you can.

Hmmm, good point. I always loved the idea of an Archon effortlessly ripping up a Hive Tyrant, hoping they haven't changed that too much in the new book!

Yeah, they still can. They don't even need the shadow field (disclaimer, you have to be really lucky with the clonefield and have shardnet support) or the agoniser (except not, since there's a low chance of a tyranid army containing an independant character to get a soul trap off).

Played Daemons today (the same guy twice, once in 40k once in fantasy due to nobody else being in the store).

It was capture and control with dawn of war deployment. I let him go first and deployed a rhino with searchlight and a melta sisters squad in the center of the board.

His army list

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Tzeentch daemon prince
Kugath
Kaeros Fateweaver

Horrors with changeling
Plaguebearers with banner
2 soulgrinders
5 bases of nurglings
2 units of flamers

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Turn 1 his plague bearers took the objective in my deployment zone, Kugath and Kairos came down next to the banner. Two units of flamers came down somewhere in my deployment zone that had no troops. He shot my rhino and stunned it.

My turn I deliberated a lot and foolishly chose to send my exorcists against the monstrous creatures, who I didn't wound.

My dominions torched the flamers to death easily.

The melta gun sisters got out of their rhino but couldn't hurt the soulgrinder who ignored being stunned. I forgot my combimelta sadly.

A unit of seraphim and 3 units of battle sisters shot at the plague bearers. 2 surived, one of which (not the banner) got killed by the seraphim in melee.

A unit of seraphim charged Kugath but did nothing.

Turn 2
A unit of flamers, the horrors and a daemon prince landed in range of the banner. I gave two of my sisters units invulnerable saves and somehow managed to survive his shooting.

The soulgrinder charged my melta gunners and broke them after killing four.

My seraphim failed to kill the banner or Kugath and hit and ran.

My melta sisters failed to rally and I forgot about my faith power that let me rally. So I moved their rhino to block the soulgrinder from them.

The dominions got back inside their immolator which drove off.

A unit of seraphim and a unit of flamer battle sisters wiped out the horrors.

The canoness' unit killed the flamers.

The depleted unit that didn't get an invulnerable save last turn charged Kugath along with the second seraphim unit, but didn't cause a wound despite having 2 eviscerators.

Turn 3
His nurglings came down just south of his objective.

My canoness got turned into a spawn (or not, since he had no model, but she was out of the game anyway) by either Kaeros or the Daemon Prince.

The soulgrinder shot at my fleeing melta sisters but only killed 1 and immobalised the rhino with a template hit.

The daemon prince charged the unit that had been the canoness' and wiped them out.

Kugath killed the unit that charged him and my seraphim hit and ran.

My turn.

The melta sisters finally rallied. They shot their meltaguns at the front of the soulgrinder but missed.

An exorcist however managed to immobalise it.

The other exorcist shot at Kugath and didn't cause a wound.

The immolator unloaded its dominions at the nurglings and I hit them with 5 templates. All the nurglings died but 1, who got charged and killed my the dominions.

My last battle sisters squad by my objective moved back and shot at the daemon prince but didn't cause a wound. My last seraphim squad legged it out of there.

Turn 4
His daemon prince charged my sisters and wiped them out. Kaeros chased after the Seraphim but I made myself invulnerable and he failed to hurt me.

Kugath made a nurgling, giving him 2 scoring units due to the banner bearer still being alive.

The dominions got back in their immolator again.

One exorcist shot and the melta sisters shot at the soul grinder but did nothing. Another exorcist shot at the daemon prince and did 1 wound.

Turn 5
His second soulgrinder came down. Together with the other one they killed the melta sisters, robbing me of my last scoring unit.

His monstrous creatures had nothing to do but guard the objective he still held.

I fired two exorcists at the newly arrived soulgrinder and managed to deal 1 glancing and 3 penetrating hits, killing it.

My dominions and seraphim threw themselves at the nurgling and banner bearer, roasting them, and also hitting the daemon prince, who suffered a wound and Kugath who didn't. Then the seraphim charged the daemon prince and got killed while the dominions charged kugath and did nothing except for lose a sister.

Game ended with all scoring troops dead. He had an immobalised soulgrinder, Kugath, a daemon prince and Kaeros. I had 2 exorcists, an immolator, 1 faithpoint and a unit of dominions in combat with Kugath.

What actually lost me that game was being unable to put my troops choice in the immolator, because then I could have ferried them over to the objective no trouble.

Main lesson learned: My army can't kill invulnerable monstrous creatures. Especially not ones that have a 4+ rerollable one and feel no pain. Evicerators on sister superiors just don't cut it.

Dominions are quite good at hunting down units. Not liking mech I'd assumed that it would be quite hard to get back in a transport and waste a turn, but it wasn't too bad and they drew the game for me.

[Wraith]

Maybe they were printed months in advance and the date on them was the date of printing?

Lexicanum agrees with you. I don't really mind, it just really confused me that my Codex seemed to have come from the future.

A reminder of your list might help. I've only used my Autarch on a jetbike, but mostly just because thats what I've got the model for, and he works very well for me that way.

I don't think a seer council needs his help, and at least the way I use my guardians he wouldn't work there, at least not if equipped with a heavy weapon.

Mine gets given a Fusion Gun and is told to hang out with my Warp Spiders. He gets to Deep Strike and Warp Jump in comparative safety, and they get an Anti-Armour shot backing them up or, if he decides to stay with the unit, a guy who stops them from getting their heads COMPLETELY kicked in when they are inevitably attacked by something.

Think of him as "the Sternguard" of the Eldar army - he comes into play wherever he likes, and from then on my opponent loses one expensive vehicle per turn until he's forced to do something about it.

[Ricky S]

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"What's wrong with the GW store? I play quite a fair few games there. Especially when I'm starting a new army since the people I'm most likely to play against in the store are...Not extremely competitive. Leaving me to develop the list how I like it so when I eventually do play the competitive players, I at least have some idea of how my list works."
The GW store is swamped with little kids. Also I can only play 1000pts games which isnt ideal because the tables are 4x4. There is a battle bunker I can go to which has about 25 gaming boards but is an extra 40 min to get to so I can't always go there.

"This...Isn't that different to what Closet_Skeleton posted. The only difference is that you're actually getting out of the house, rather than cherry-picking from your computer chair.
While it is a commendable difference, the outcome is the same."

I don't actually know what Closet_Skeleton posted. But yea getting out of the house is good.

"Hooray! That's more like it. I ran my take on your previous list earlier tonight (the White Scars one). It didn't perform as well as I would've liked to, but, its definitely...What's a word slightly better than adequate? Not terrible?"
I like the theme of the army. I am going for a "hit and run" style army. I seem to pick armies that are difficult to play but that is part of the challenge.

"I've emphasised the important bits. Took the words right out of my mouth."

Yea I am well aware of what doesn't work. I am sometimes unsure of what does work. I am sure that my planned army will work better than my current one.

"That's how I do it. "

Yea plasma cannons are delicious best investment I have made. My two tactical squads killed a carnifex in one turn last game. With the two plasma guns and two plasma cannons. Its scary.

"I don't point this out very often, but Devastators are terrible unless you have Lysander or a Techmarine in the army. Since I regularly use Lysander and/or Thunderfire Cannons, this hasn't come up much in the thread.

Invest in a Predator or two."

I don't find them terrible without it. I usually put them in a building and they are good. They are usually destroyed turn 4-5 but by then the damage is done. They will be dropped in my new army though. I like preds but I wont be getting them for a while. Maybe when I expand to 2000pts I'll get a couple.

"That's why I prefer Command Squads on Bikes, rather than in a Rhino. Alternatively, you might consider getting a Razorback for them so they don't really have to move forwards for the first few turns. Do this especially if you plan on getting Predator(s) and/or Whirlwind(s)."

I bought a rhino because a razor back will be useless in the army I am making. Ie the white scars one with the Command squad on bikes. The rhino will still be useful however as I plan on using it for the tactical squads. I am eventually going to get the command squad on bikes.

"Get...More? "

Haha yea I plan to but tactical squads are now $62. I remember the days when they were $40.

"I do like Terminators. But, if they're not working for you, then they're not working for you."

They are alright but they really dont work in my army. Last game they killed a single hive guard and then were destroyed by a tunnelling Trygon. 200 points wasted.

"If you've got a Multi-Melta in a Tactical Squad; Get a Rhino. They wont be moving anytime soon, so they're usually sitting ducks. And, if they do want to move, they probably want to do so, faster."

I was planning on getting them a drop pod. Although I am not sure. Which would be better a rhino or a drop pod?

I so wish they would bring out the Alien hunters codex. That is what I am really waiting for but I am not even sure if they ever will. Or at least if they brought back deathwatch killteams. Those guys were so much fun to use.

[Tazar]

Man, I'm gonna have to pick up a DE army over the holiday season this year. They are just too good-looking, and I really need an army that doesn't wear Power Armor.

[Cheesegear]

The GW store is swamped with little kids. Also I can only play 1000pts games which isnt ideal because the tables are 4x4.

Once again, you're starting a brand new army. You should be playing little kids and playing no more than 1000 points. That's no different to my own store.

Why are you trying to play 1500 points off the bat? It makes no sense.

I don't actually know what Closet_Skeleton posted.

Basically, that your way of playtesting, is not doing it yourself, and seeing what other people are doing and just copying them.

I was planning on getting them a drop pod. Although I am not sure. Which would be better a rhino or a drop pod?

In my experience, whatever Deep Strikes (especially in a Drop Pod), be it Terminators, Sternguard, Ironclads, Grey Hunters, they get one round of shooting before they're in Assault on your opponent's turn. A Multi-Melta, being a Heavy weapon, doesn't get to fire on the turn it lands, and, a Tactical Squad is not any of the things listed above, so when they get Assaulted, they probably wont have a fun time of it.

Tactical Squads don't go in Drop Pods.
I might consider a Meltagun and Sergeant with Combi-Melta...But, Space Wolves do the same thing, better.

I guess, at the end of it, the Multi-Melta is free. So why not?

[Ricky S]

In my experience, whatever Deep Strikes (especially in a Drop Pod), be it Terminators, Sternguard, Ironclads, Grey Hunters, they get one round of shooting before they're in Assault on your opponent's turn. A Multi-Melta, being a Heavy weapon, doesn't get to fire on the turn it lands, and, a Tactical Squad is not any of the things listed above, so when they get Assaulted, they probably wont have a fun time of it.

Tactical Squads don't go in Drop Pods.
I might consider a Meltagun and Sergeant with Combi-Melta...But, Space Wolves do the same thing, better.

I guess, at the end of it, the Multi-Melta is free. So why not?

What I find really strange to be put in a drop pod is a thunderfire cannon. That seems like utter insanity. Unless of course you are playing apocalypse. But even then... I think I will drop the drop pod (pun not intended) and use a rhino for the squad.

How do you guys get your extra weapons? Ie Powerswords, lightning claws, etc. GW could make people's lives so much easier if they stocked an upgrades box filled with all the special weapons.

[Renegade Paladin]

How do you guys get your extra weapons? Ie Powerswords, lightning claws, etc. GW could make people's lives so much easier if they stocked an upgrades box filled with all the special weapons.

Yeah, they could, but then they'd make less money than they do making you buy whole extra kits just for weapons. I'd go with a secondary seller, like Bitz Barn or the War Store.

[Dark Faun]

Worst comes to worst, you can get the boxes cheaper at Maelstrom Games.

[Tren]

Mine gets given a Fusion Gun and is told to hang out with my Warp Spiders. He gets to Deep Strike and Warp Jump in comparative safety, and they get an Anti-Armour shot backing them up or, if he decides to stay with the unit, a guy who stops them from getting their heads COMPLETELY kicked in when they are inevitably attacked by something.

Points allowing, I like this setup as well. If points are tight, I'll often give him just a fusion gun and throw him in a wave serpent with one of my other aspect squads. He's really only there for the reserves bonus; anything else is a nice extra. If I drop him out of the serpent to suicide melta something on turn 2 or 3 I've likely already gotten my use out of him.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Inspired by a thread on Bolter and Chainsword.

Blood Angels Techmarine options don't actually define that they're techmarine only, and unlike with codex marines, the servitors are an upgrade, not a seperate command squad style unit.

So the servo-harness and jump pack upgrades are all available to servitors, since they have servo arms to upgrade/replace (the combi-weapon upgrade is also available in theory, but they don't have any bolters to replace so that's null).

Blood Angels Techmarines can replace their servo-arm for a jump pack. This sounds useless because it gives you a servo-armless techmarine. Except that a servo-harness includes two servo-arms, so you can swap one of them for a jump pack and still make repair rolls and powerfist attacks.

Since your servitors can also take servo-harness and jump packs, you can have a unit of flying servitors with servo arms. To take a heavy weapon, a servitor has to give up his servo-arm, but that's not important because he has two.

So for a rediculously nonviable amount of points (215), you can have:
Techmarine with jump pack and servo-harness.
2 Servitors with servo-harness, jump pack and plasma cannon.

That's 2 plasma cannon shots and 3 twin-linked plasma pistol shots.

You could also give them all thunder hammers.

Techmarine and 5 servitors all with thunder hammer and servo-harness (455 points) gives you 18 power fist attacks. Kind of like 10 hammernators, but far worse and more expensive.

[lord_khaine]

Think of him as "the Sternguard" of the Eldar army - he comes into play wherever he likes, and from then on my opponent loses one expensive vehicle per turn until he's forced to do something about it.

He only inflicts one melta hit per round though, and if he is with Warp spiders, then they become pretty useless whenever he is going for anything remotely armored?

About the Dire Avengers, what would he be doing with them, jump around wawing his fancy power sword and fusion gun?

Anyway, the 1750 new Eldar army i had been considering trying would look a bit like this.
1 Farseer with Council, in wave serpent
2 groups of Dire avengers.
1 group of Guardians.
1 group of Fire dragons in Wave serpent
2 Wraithlords.

[Erloas]

Anyway, the 1750 new Eldar army i had been considering trying would look a bit like this.
1 Farseer with Council, in wave serpent
2 groups of Dire avengers.
1 group of Guardians.
1 group of Fire dragons in Wave serpent
2 Wraithlords.

This is the list you are planning on adding the autarch to?
Does the guardians have a spiritseer for the wraithlords or are you planning on holding back the seer council to help them along?

If the guardians are going to be moving with the wraithlords to keep them going then I would look at putting the autarch there to make them more dangerous and to help them survive longer. (survive longer by making them less likely to get assaulted and have more killing power for anything that gets too close, and potentially to assign a few wounds to)

If the council stays with the wraithlords then chances are one of the dire avenger squads will spend most games guarding an objective and I would put him with them for the same reasons I would put him with the guardians.

[Arcanoi]

Inspired by a thread on Bolter and Chainsword.

Blood Angels Techmarine options don't actually define that they're techmarine only, and unlike with codex marines, the servitors are an upgrade, not a seperate command squad style unit.

So the servo-harness and jump pack upgrades are all available to servitors, since they have servo arms to upgrade/replace (the combi-weapon upgrade is also available in theory, but they don't have any bolters to replace so that's null).

Blood Angels Techmarines can replace their servo-arm for a jump pack. This sounds useless because it gives you a servo-armless techmarine. Except that a servo-harness includes two servo-arms, so you can swap one of them for a jump pack and still make repair rolls and powerfist attacks.

Since your servitors can also take servo-harness and jump packs, you can have a unit of flying servitors with servo arms. To take a heavy weapon, a servitor has to give up his servo-arm, but that's not important because he has two.

So for a rediculously nonviable amount of points (215), you can have:
Techmarine with jump pack and servo-harness.
2 Servitors with servo-harness, jump pack and plasma cannon.

That's 2 plasma cannon shots and 3 twin-linked plasma pistol shots.

You could also give them all thunder hammers.

Techmarine and 5 servitors all with thunder hammer and servo-harness (455 points) gives you 18 power fist attacks. Kind of like 10 hammernators, but far worse and more expensive.

According to the stipulations from this ridiculous loophole, you could have your Wolf Lords running around with Fenrisian Wolves on Thunderwolves.