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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Man, that tie seems adamant on existing.
    We're still waiting on Keld's answer towards judging or not (or DaragosKitsune pulling a Big Damn Hero moment on us), but in case the tie stands:
    What do you guys think we should do? VT suggested I just pick my favourite, but I realized I like both builds the same.
    Should there be a standard tie-breaker in IC?

  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    I'm partial to having the two characters PvP to the death...[evil]

    EDIT: Why is there no sufficiently evil "evil smiley?" This hardly does evil justice.

    EDIT 2 (ELECTRIC BOOGALOO): We have an official cheering section!
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2010-12-01 at 04:20 PM.
    Iron Chef Optimization Challenge Old Head and Unofficial Archivist
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  3. - Top - End - #273
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    I think the only fair way is for both to get silver trophys and the person after them to get bronze. If they are so good that we cannot decided between them then they should both get the same prize and leave it at that.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    ...no dueling to the death? But your way is so fun, and not at all bloody.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Quote Originally Posted by cd4 View Post
    I think the only fair way is for both to get silver trophys and the person after them to get bronze. If they are so good that we cannot decided between them then they should both get the same prize and leave it at that.
    I'll have to talk with Jumilk about this. She is very particular about her trophies.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    Let me just point this out, about Soulknives, since I love'em:

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    A mind blade is considered a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    The same holds for mind arrows as well. See below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Complete Psionic, page 36
    Whether a mind arrow hits or misses, it dissipates 1 round after being shot. A mind arrow is considered a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
    By that same reasoning (which is true), a Monk's unarmed strikes are magical by 4th level. Again: what's the trouble about Monks, at least in terms of weapons that can be used?

    Perhaps it was the wrong choice of words, but it would have stood out: the mind arrows are not enchanted, as in holding a +1 or higher enhancement bonus and/or a magic weapon special enhancement. That might have made a little difference, because what it might have lost in sheer damage it might have countered in versatility; after all, you don't need to waste that on flaming/frost/shocking. Having enchanted mind arrows would have done a world of good for the build, if the ruling had gone out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pechvarry View Post
    You're right about this feasibly adding as much or more to your ranged attacks, but be careful when you start making statements like this. Your proposed build to not need Drunken Master completely misses the point: you're not shooting mind arrows, fluff-wise. Crunch-wise, this is a fantastic way to get Unarmed damage at a range, and your proposed build doesn't do that.

    I know it's a slippery slope, but if you discount this stuff, you're 2 steps away from "why bother? play a Wizard."
    Exactly, but I wasn't going for mind arrows. And it adds Unarmed damage to a range, to a point: while you can't form a mind arrow as you'd like, you can throw an already existing arrow with your hands; whether that could be counted as an option or not still depends on the DM, but it's at least mostly feasible unlike the more slippery reading of using mind arrows. And the title doesn't say "Simon the incompetent mind archer", but merely "Simon the incompetent archer"; by all means, the build would have had the same fluff. Using arrows without a bow still makes Simon incompetent (speaking in perception terms), but perhaps slightly more effective.

    Now, I don't wish to go with a long reason why throwing mind arrows is bad and why throwing arrows may be good, since the first is going strictly by rules and the other uses rules that are almost as slippery (there's no mention of throwing arrows, just shooting and melee-ing as a dagger). I had the issue with mind arrows, observed the situation, and agreed that it wasn't feasible since it's not intended by RAI and has no more support by RAW than other things (such as using long poles as improvised weapons that behave like quarterstaffs, much like long tables act like tower shields, stool feet act like light maces, etc.)

    And I wouldn't have gone "why bother"; thing is, going all the problem for making a build that goes for a concept just because you want to do that concept isn't merit enough to scratch up and play a wizard. I mean, if you don't like playing arcane spellcasters, no world of proof can make you think otherwise. It's just that there's stuff that I can find cool, and there's stuff that Rule of Cool can't help; magic items are supposed to be there, sure, but to what extent you'll have what you need? There's no provision on Iron Chef that explains that you'll certainly have WBL by the time you get to level X, otherwise it's on the DM's whim if you actually end up having all that money to get the belts, tomes and other magic items. And even then, having tomes still is as rare as getting to Epic (otherwise, you can make fantastically improbable builds like most I see on DDO where you're expected to have certain stuff by endgame, where you can't get certain stuff unless you shell out real money or play for years); it's something that the DM may very well reject on terms of rarity because it would cause everything else to fall down.

    I don't do it for bad reasons, Pech. I do it because these are builds that, perhaps one day, will be imitated or even suggested on others' tables. I did recall one time that one of the winner builds was going to be used on an actual gaming table. It showcases a build and shows what can be done with it; in that case, the four that are on top (plus Gazebo) showcase appropriate ways to deal with the class. IMO, Simon's build belongs mostly at TO, where you showcase tricks that require on certain readings, even though the power of that theoretical optimization is not to the degree of Pun-Pun or Cindy or Jack B. Quick. But it's clever, and requires a very deep and conscious reading of the rules. And I offered a way in which it could have been done a mite better (heck, that way, if you managed to work with it, IB's Uncanny Feint would do even more than DM's Improved Feint). Just adding Hurling Charge to the build would have made use of Swagger AND the non-plausible mind arrow throwing tricks by adding Mobility, mind arrow melee and mind arrow thrown damage, amongst others.

    And just to finish this (it's getting extense); I even mentioned to refine this concept! Really! It's on the overall section! It goes along with "shelve it", but if the concept is refined, maybe it can go up in power or elegance by solving some minor concepts. Soulknife + Soulbow has a larger chance of being slightly (if not more) successful than the entire build, because there are more stuff that you can play with. Heck; even changing Evasion to Invisible Fist would have given it a solid defensive tactic that would have boosted its power a bit; the fact that it used the Cobra Strike fighting style was a clever way to get Dodge. It just needs to be polished a bit more.

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    I'm partial to having the two characters PvP to the death...[evil]
    Darn, I would have wanted Bu and Gazebo to fight to the death. I even mentioned it... Vermilion and Laph would be interesting, though; having seen them on paper suggests a very interesting combat (especially to showcase Laph's great tactics against Verm's power through sheer simplicity).

    If there's a fight to the death, sign me up! It doesn't have to be "to the death"; first blood or last man standing should suffice.
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  7. - Top - End - #277
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    I'll have to talk with Jumilk about this. She is very particular about her trophies.
    O.o What. I can't leave this tread for a while... Nini got the gold?! Yeeey! I must point out that I was Chieftain Nini's lucky muse.

    I think we should wait on Keld before deciding anything, but I belive there is nothing wrong with two silver trophies.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar View Post
    By that same reasoning (which is true), a Monk's unarmed strikes are magical by 4th level. Again: what's the trouble about Monks, at least in terms of weapons that can be used?

    Perhaps it was the wrong choice of words, but it would have stood out: the mind arrows are not enchanted, as in holding a +1 or higher enhancement bonus and/or a magic weapon special enhancement. That might have made a little difference, because what it might have lost in sheer damage it might have countered in versatility; after all, you don't need to waste that on flaming/frost/shocking. Having enchanted mind arrows would have done a world of good for the build, if the ruling had gone out.



    Exactly, but I wasn't going for mind arrows. And it adds Unarmed damage to a range, to a point: while you can't form a mind arrow as you'd like, you can throw an already existing arrow with your hands; whether that could be counted as an option or not still depends on the DM, but it's at least mostly feasible unlike the more slippery reading of using mind arrows. And the title doesn't say "Simon the incompetent mind archer", but merely "Simon the incompetent archer"; by all means, the build would have had the same fluff. Using arrows without a bow still makes Simon incompetent (speaking in perception terms), but perhaps slightly more effective.

    Now, I don't wish to go with a long reason why throwing mind arrows is bad and why throwing arrows may be good, since the first is going strictly by rules and the other uses rules that are almost as slippery (there's no mention of throwing arrows, just shooting and melee-ing as a dagger). I had the issue with mind arrows, observed the situation, and agreed that it wasn't feasible since it's not intended by RAI and has no more support by RAW than other things (such as using long poles as improvised weapons that behave like quarterstaffs, much like long tables act like tower shields, stool feet act like light maces, etc.)

    And I wouldn't have gone "why bother"; thing is, going all the problem for making a build that goes for a concept just because you want to do that concept isn't merit enough to scratch up and play a wizard. I mean, if you don't like playing arcane spellcasters, no world of proof can make you think otherwise. It's just that there's stuff that I can find cool, and there's stuff that Rule of Cool can't help; magic items are supposed to be there, sure, but to what extent you'll have what you need? There's no provision on Iron Chef that explains that you'll certainly have WBL by the time you get to level X, otherwise it's on the DM's whim if you actually end up having all that money to get the belts, tomes and other magic items. And even then, having tomes still is as rare as getting to Epic (otherwise, you can make fantastically improbable builds like most I see on DDO where you're expected to have certain stuff by endgame, where you can't get certain stuff unless you shell out real money or play for years); it's something that the DM may very well reject on terms of rarity because it would cause everything else to fall down.

    I don't do it for bad reasons, Pech. I do it because these are builds that, perhaps one day, will be imitated or even suggested on others' tables. I did recall one time that one of the winner builds was going to be used on an actual gaming table. It showcases a build and shows what can be done with it; in that case, the four that are on top (plus Gazebo) showcase appropriate ways to deal with the class. IMO, Simon's build belongs mostly at TO, where you showcase tricks that require on certain readings, even though the power of that theoretical optimization is not to the degree of Pun-Pun or Cindy or Jack B. Quick. But it's clever, and requires a very deep and conscious reading of the rules. And I offered a way in which it could have been done a mite better (heck, that way, if you managed to work with it, IB's Uncanny Feint would do even more than DM's Improved Feint). Just adding Hurling Charge to the build would have made use of Swagger AND the non-plausible mind arrow throwing tricks by adding Mobility, mind arrow melee and mind arrow thrown damage, amongst others.

    And just to finish this (it's getting extense); I even mentioned to refine this concept! Really! It's on the overall section! It goes along with "shelve it", but if the concept is refined, maybe it can go up in power or elegance by solving some minor concepts. Soulknife + Soulbow has a larger chance of being slightly (if not more) successful than the entire build, because there are more stuff that you can play with. Heck; even changing Evasion to Invisible Fist would have given it a solid defensive tactic that would have boosted its power a bit; the fact that it used the Cobra Strike fighting style was a clever way to get Dodge. It just needs to be polished a bit more.



    Darn, I would have wanted Bu and Gazebo to fight to the death. I even mentioned it... Vermilion and Laph would be interesting, though; having seen them on paper suggests a very interesting combat (especially to showcase Laph's great tactics against Verm's power through sheer simplicity).

    If there's a fight to the death, sign me up! It doesn't have to be "to the death"; first blood or last man standing should suffice.

    None of your suggested builds work well with Drunken Master. Invisible Blade requires daggers for the majority of its abilities leaving you with only a free action feint and no precision damage to make it worth while. Arrows are not used as daggers in melee. They are improvised weapon that do damage as a dagger, which follows the improvised weapon damage rules in CoW as well. A sharp item weighing under 1lbs will do 1d4 damage. An arrow used in melee is decidedly not a dagger.

    A charging ranged build wouldn't have much use for Stagger as you'd just be running 10ft and chucking items. You would want to use some pounce ability, power attack and shock trooper with Bloodstorm blade to make them melee attacks but you would need objects weighing more than 2lbs to make them at least one handed improvised weapon to use Power Attack. It would end up as a mess and you would have trouble finding enough items to chuck, even using the returning ability you'd be breaking a few of them.

    By the way, Drink like a demon requires many move actions to charge it up. Most fights won't last that long and unless you have ways to get extra move actions (Hustle, Swiftblade, etc) you're wasting a lot of actions in the beginning of the fight. By the time you've chugged 5 drinks most fights are over.


    The contest is to make an original, interesting, and powerful Drunken Master build. By RAW I can see how many would see the Soulbow trick to not be valid. I feel it is within the spirit of the rules and the creators of the class obviously did not intend for it to be used this way. Only drunken masters would have any interest in using mind arrows or regular arrows as improvised weapons.

  9. - Top - End - #279
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Sorry for the delays, I'm here at last.

    Well, here we go.

    Firstly, I won't penalize Monk dips. That's all I'm being soft on though.

    Bu the Hobo Fist
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    Originality: 3.5 This is (by your own implication) a weaker Fistbeard Beardfist build, modified for a touch of stealthy. However, I didn't expect the Chameleon, and your use of Urban Ranger and backstory are good.

    Power: 3.5 This is actually a fairly good build. You can be a damage guy or a tank. The only problem, and a major one at that, is that or is the operative word. You can't be the damage guy and the tank at the same time. Not to mention that between TWF, Snap Kick, and Power Attack your chance of actually hitting while having boosted your CON is low at best, not to mention how much DR hurts for you.

    Elegance: 2 Versatility is all well and good, but you don't seem to know what you want to do here. You have 5th level spells, sometimes, at 20th level. You are MAD as a hatter. You have a feat spent on all of one martial maneuver. Feats are precious. I find the Chameleon levels in general really tacky.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5 For all of my problems regarding how versatile this is immediately, you did well using the DM levels for stat-boosting. Also, you stopped taking levels when they stopped being useful, which I like. However, you also took just as many levels in Chameleon as you did in Drunken Master, marginalizing you secret ingredient a bit, which stopped you from getting a 4+.

    Total: 12.5/20
    Average: 3.125/5


    Eric Redscale
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    Originality: 5 You are a drunk that gets so drunk that they are better than some dragons at being a dragon. That is awesome.

    Power: 4 What do you know, Breath of Flame really does work that way. Not to mention you can move pretty much wherever you want and aren't a half bad melee combatant. Would have been higher except fire is pretty easy to block.

    Elegance: 4 Pretty good, but you lost a bit from your dips (Initiate/Disciple) to qualify for Drunken Master.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4 Drunken Master has two abilities that you make really good use of: the Con boost and the fire breath. You make really good use of them. However, the other abilities fall to the wayside, so no full marks for you.

    Total: 17/20
    Average: 4.25/5


    Simon the Incompetent Archer
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    Originality: 4.5 You throw arrows. Arrows you make with your mind. Better than an archer shooting them.

    Power: 2 I'm not sure your arrows are as powerful as you think they are, especially in melee. I also think that DRX/anything but magic completely shuts down your character. These are more than slight problems.

    Elegance: 2 Your build relies on assumptions not directly taken from the text and dipping. You also have a very big gap between your first and second Drunken Master levels.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 2 This is not a Drunken Master build. This is a drunken Master Thrower build that has a bunch of Drunken Master levels tacked on the end.
    Total: 10.5/20
    Average: 2.625/5


    Laph Roaig
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    Originality: 5 You are a drunken, psychic, DBZ-esque ninja immortal. I want everyone reading this to say that out loud.

    Power: 3 This is a solid build. Nothing overly eye-catching power-wise, but you can cover a wide range of combat roles with ease if needed.

    Elegance: 2.5 Holy Multiclassing Batman! The problem with being a drunken, psychic, DBZ-esque ninja is that the build is reminiscent of Frankenstein's Monster. However, the build doesn't suffer from much but that.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3 You did OK with your DM use. Nothing spectacular, but the class fits here. It's weird, but it feels right.

    Total: 13.5/20
    Average: 3.625/5


    Vermillion
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    Originality: 3.5 The Monk was expected. The Minotaur was not.

    Power: 4 You have Str 27 without items, and the abilities to be highly effective at hitting people really hard. Items could have boosted this to a 4.5 or 5.

    Elegance: 5 I can't really give this anything else. It is basic. It flows. It makes sense.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5 Your natural weapon works really well with your drinking, and DM gives you some good techniques to make your bruiser shine. Being Large also seems to work well.
    Total: 16/20
    Average: 4/5


    Uthunan Kavuilika
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    Originality: 4 A depressed warrior cursed with bad luck that turns that curse into a strength. I approve. Also, Barbarian. In a vaguely monk based prc build.

    Power: 3 You are a fairly solid melee character with a touch of magic and some luck re-rolls. Not too shabby. Certainly not a diamond, but not unplayable, save the debilitating curse.

    Elegance: 1 The breaking your enemies tactic is a lot more than mild cheese. Not to mention the flow breaking curse and heavy dipping. You were further hurt by your blatant RAW abuse, TO tactics in a PO competition, and blatant munchkining.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3 If you ignore the rage-inducing instant kill tactic, this build is a rather nice example of melee improvised weapon use. A character who deliberately picks up the nearest heavy object, living or not, whenever he needs a weapon.

    Total: 11/20
    Average: 2.75/5


    Chieftain Nini
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    Originality: 3 The idea of a savage chief turning a weakness for the creature into a weapon would be original, except that bit of history is common knowledge up here in the North, so no bonus points. None lost either though.

    Power: 4 You have pounce and can FoB with anything. You also have abilities that supercharge your Str score. You also have a lot of tricks you can pull off. You are ready for just about any fight.

    Elegance: 4 Barbarian/Scout is a nice combo, as is Barbarian/DM and Shou Disciple/DM. Plus you have the advantage of direct chairman approval of your tricks.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 5 The Rage synergy. Oh, the Rage synergy and Skirmish synergy and Shou Disciple FoB synergy. This is a beautiful use of Drunken Master. It works with all the main elements of your build, and ties them together.

    Total: 16/20
    Average: 4/5


    Gazebo Jones
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    Originality: 5 A psychotic robot who is drunk constantly (or at least thinks he is) that can transform into just about anything he wants, and kill people with it. Yes, just yes.

    Power: 4 You are never without a weapon due to Alter Self. You also have some fairly good slime/acid abilities from Thrall of Jubilex. Your improvised weapon abilities are really good with your ability to be just about any object. Not the pinnacle of strength, but pretty good.

    Elegance: 4 The Drunken Master/Thrall of Jubilex synergy is good. The fighter levels probably could have been put to slightly better use, but extra combat feats cover for the feats lost to Vile feats. Also, easily followed build.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4 You make really good use of the improvised weapon abilities of the Drunken Master, as well as its movement abilities, but the build felt like Thrall of Jubilex was sharing the spotlight, blocking anything above a 4.

    Total: 17/20
    Average: 4.25/5
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    If the line between genius and madness is so thin...

    Then why do so few in this day and age toe said line?

    Thanks to Bongos for the v-13 avvie!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Damn you Daragos, I was just leaving for class!
    Looks like we have ourselves a Big Damn Hero and a tiebreaker. I'll only be able to post the official results late this evening, though.
    Last edited by true_shinken; 2010-12-02 at 06:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    So I'm not needed?
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  12. - Top - End - #282
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    I'll steal OMG Ponies's placements here and modify. Someone more official can confirm my math and make a real table.


    Chieftain Nini 76.5
    Vermillion 72
    Laph Roaig 69.5
    Gazebo Jones 69.5
    Eric Redscale 67
    Bu the Hobo Fist 66.5
    Simon the Incompetent Archer 54
    Uthunan Kavuilika 53.5

    Which would put Nini in first, Vermillion in second, and a third place tie.

    But third place ties probably aren't enough of a worry to bother overmuch in trying to resolve.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Aha! The Tie did not die, it just hid out at 3rd place! Darn, that's one persistent tie!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    The tie also swapped contestants
    Handbooks: (Hosted on BG)
    [3.5] The Poison Handbook
    [3.5] (New) Master of Shrouds Handbook
    [3.5 Base Class] Healer's Handbook

    Trophies!
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    Thanks to Strategos and Jumilk for the awesome Iron Chef trophies!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Quote Originally Posted by Rancor1 View Post
    snip
    This is the second time in one thread you've done this, so I feel it merits comment. It is only natural to disagree with the judges, but please direct any disputes or reubttals to the chairman via PM so he can decide if the dispute is valid and post it anonymously. Not doing so puts us in danger of another debacle like Round VII, which was apparently not pretty.

    Quote Originally Posted by SaintRidley View Post
    I'll steal OMG Ponies's placements here and modify. Someone more official can confirm my math and make a real table.
    No more official, but I'd be happy to make it pretty. Also, looks either you or I have Nini's score wrong by one point. According to the spreadsheet:

    THE (FINAL?) TALLY
    {table=head]Name|Place|Total|Average
    Chieftain Nini|GOLD|77.5|3.875
    Vermillion|SILVER|72|3.6
    Laph Roaig|BRONZE|69.5|3.475
    Gazebo Jones|BRONZE|69.5|3.475
    Eric Redscale|Fifth|67|3.35
    Bu the Hobo Fist|Sixth|66.5|3.325
    Simon the Incompetent Archer|Seventh|54|2.7
    Uthunan Kavuilika|Eighth|53.5|2.675[/table]

    So, I guess that's "Best in Show." For funsies, I've also been tracking the following categories on my spreadsheet:
    • Most Original: Eric Redscale
    • Most Powerful: Gazebo Jones
    • Most Elegant: Vermillion
    • Best Use of Secret Ingredient: Chieftain Nini


    Feel free to think up funnier names for said categories. Also, as a shameless plug, I've updated the Hall of Records with some number-crunching goodness from rounds I-XIV [waiting until the official reveal to include this round]. Shake Amphetryon's hand, everyone, as he's our most frequent competitor with 10 entries in the first 14 rounds!
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    And two tours of duty as a judge!
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    This is the second time in one thread you've done this, so I feel it merits comment. It is only natural to disagree with the judges, but please direct any disputes or reubttals to the chairman via PM so he can decide if the dispute is valid and post it anonymously. Not doing so puts us in danger of another debacle like Round VII, which was apparently not pretty.



    No more official, but I'd be happy to make it pretty. Also, looks either you or I have Nini's score wrong by one point. According to the spreadsheet:

    THE (FINAL?) TALLY
    {table=head]Name|Place|Total|Average
    Chieftain Nini|GOLD|77.5|3.875
    Vermillion|SILVER|72|3.6
    Laph Roaig|BRONZE|69.5|3.475
    Gazebo Jones|BRONZE|69.5|3.475
    Eric Redscale|Fifth|67|3.35
    Bu the Hobo Fist|Sixth|66.5|3.325
    Simon the Incompetent Archer|Seventh|54|2.7
    Uthunan Kavuilika|Eighth|53.5|2.675[/table]

    So, I guess that's "Best in Show." For funsies, I've also been tracking the following categories on my spreadsheet:
    • Most Original: Eric Redscale
    • Most Powerful: Gazebo Jones
    • Most Elegant: Vermillion
    • Best Use of Secret Ingredient: Chieftain Nini


    Feel free to think up funnier names for said categories. Also, as a shameless plug, I've updated the Hall of Records with some number-crunching goodness from rounds I-XIV [waiting until the official reveal to include this round]. Shake Amphetryon's hand, everyone, as he's our most frequent competitor with 10 entries in the first 14 rounds!
    Your corrected table has the correct value for Nini.


    I'd suggest for category names:

    Most Original => Kind of Pretty New
    Most Powerful => Hulk Smashingly
    Most Elegant => Unparalleled Grace
    Best Use of Secret Ingredient => That's a Spicy Meatball
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    It's starting to feel like there should be a medal for "Most Conflicting Rules Interpretation" for those truly bewildering builds where a good argument could be made for multiple interpretations of RAW.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Quote Originally Posted by Pechvarry View Post
    It's starting to feel like there should be a medal for "Most Conflicting Rules Interpretation" for those truly bewildering builds where a good argument could be made for multiple interpretations of RAW.
    I don't think that is a good idea; for a start that would kinda tempt (I am sure there is a better word, but for my life I cannot remember it) competitors to make RAW questionable build just to get that title and the arguments caused by such interpretations can get really heated (like the one in IC XII or VIII, don't remember exactly).
    Last edited by Dusk Eclipse; 2010-12-02 at 05:46 PM.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    I don't think that is a good idea; for a start that would kinda tempt (I am sure there is a better word, but for my life I cannot remember it) competitors to make RAW questionable build just to get that title and the arguments caused by such interpretations can get really heated (like the one in IC XII or XVIII, don't remember exactly).
    He's a FUTURE PSYCHIC! (just had to make the Elan reference)
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    He's a FUTURE PSYCHIC! (just had to make the Elan reference)
    I lol'ed.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    He's a FUTURE PSYCHIC! (just had to make the Elan reference)
    Just what in the nine hells are you talking about?, it clearly says IC VII and VII


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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Hooray for these! I'm totally stealing Vermillion for an NPC in my evil campaign by the way. Not sure on the level yet, but high enough to showcase some drunken master awesomeness while low enough not to steamroll a bunch of level 8's.

    That'll make two contestants that I've used so far. I'm happily playing a level 4 Dulcinea in a campaign that I'm in by the way. Thanks, OMG!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Smilez. As written, or with tweaks?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    This DM is very lenient with outside sources so the champions of ruin variant and no multiclass penalties were both okay'd. Generally I would never be allowed anything outside of Core (no psionics) + Completes and maybe Races. Currently kicking butt and looking forward to more levels of paladin.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Y'all aren't still waiting on me, are you? Cause nobody told me I was needed yet, so I haven't even started. If y'all want me to judge, I'll see if I can squeeze something out tomorrow morning, but I got the GF coming tonight and my RL game the night after. Do you think another judge is needed?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Y'all aren't still waiting on me, are you? Cause nobody told me I was needed yet, so I haven't even started. If y'all want me to judge, I'll see if I can squeeze something out tomorrow morning, but I got the GF coming tonight and my RL game the night after. Do you think another judge is needed?
    No, Keld, Daragos showed up at the last moment, so we don't need another judge.
    Thanks for stepping up though. ^^

    OK, now for the official results.

    In 1st place, we have OMGPonies' Chieftain Nini the Whiskey King!
    In 2nd place, we have gbprime's Vermillion!
    In 3rd place, we have Ampthetryon's Laph Roig! (Man, Amph got third place again!)
    In 4th place, we have Akal Saris' Gazebo Jones!
    In 5th place, we have OMGPonies' Eric the Redscale!
    In 6th place, we have Urpriest's Bu the Hobo Fist!
    In 7th place, we have Rancor1's Simon the Incompetent Archer!
    In 8th place, we have Heliomance's Uthunan Kavuilika! (I still can't pronounce this, TG)
    Honorable mention goes to Akal Saris' Gazebo Jones!

    Thanks all chefs, judges and guests for a very entertaining round of Iron Chef! Congratulations to our winners and other contestants! Stay tuned for trophies and Iron Chef XVI!
    Last edited by true_shinken; 2010-12-02 at 06:49 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Another win for OMG, and another bronze for me! Out of curiosity, what was the tie-break between Laph Roaig (google the name with no spaces) and the killer Gazebo?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Another win for OMG, and another bronze for me! Out of curiosity, what was the tie-break between Laph Roaig (google the name with no spaces) and the killer Gazebo?
    Akal PMed me saying he preferred Laph to have 3rd place.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV

    Despite the fact I'm still in the process of moving house, I'm determined to get an entry in for the next comp - assuming it isn't for a PrC that uses a system I'm unfamiliar with (psionics, ToB or incarnum, basically).

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