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  1. - Top - End - #271
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Any GM who wants to go through with this idea really, REALLY should read The Jack Tales (some of which can be found online here) and Grandfather Tales, two collections of oral folklore from the Appalachia region, incorporating a lot of transplanted and adapted European fairy tales.

  2. - Top - End - #272
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Science Officer's Avatar

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    This list is pretty great.
    Some (pointless and annoying) suggestions:

    -Gunman's ownership tree could be renamed the Gunsmith/Gunsmithing tree. Also could encompass the modification of guns.
    -I'd rename either the Doctor's Medicine or Science Tree "Physick" whichever seems more appropriate. No idea for a fourth.
    -Someone else suggested (and I concur) that Gangsters have a talent set for motor vehicles. Not sure what to call it. Something like:
    Automotive Tree - Maintaining and operating automobiles and motor-cycles.

    Side note:
    Spoiler
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    Internal combustion engines, being fancy technology, ought-not work in the wild, and have trouble in rural areas. I think this might best be handled by having them burn more fuel and less cleanly. So characters that want to do some motoring aren't quite restricted to cities. They won't get very far, so steam engines are still the best way to actually travel long distances. And out in the wild? Forget it.
    If you're wondering how well this might fit, think of the western movie Fistful of Dynamite. I loved the scene where the main character, and Irish chemist is introduced to the gang of Mexican bandits. Driving through the desert in a motorcycle, goggles, satchel full of explosives...


    -For the priest, a fourth skill set might be a "Sacrement Tree". not sure if that's the right word. It would involve the creation, concescration, and application of objects sacred to their religion. These might be holy water, spirit masks, gris-gris bags, or of course, the Good Book itself (Not to say necesarily that a Priest would use it in the same way as a hoodoo practitioner). These could synergise with all the other priest talents, making them more reliable, longer lasting, more effective, act as pseudo magic items, w/e.

    Spoiler
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    As far as religion goes, in order to preserve board rules, avoid offending anyone too many people, and to avoid doing any research, I suggest we use the Crystal Dragon model. Except, without the crystal dragon. Being ambiguously and aesthetically Christian


    -I sort of want to rename the Cheating Gambling Tree the "Crooked Tree", just for the pun.

    -Suggestion for fourth Rascal Talent tree: the Panache* Tree. The ability to suceed at various endeavours by the skin of their teeth, through gumption, daring, and uncanny luck. Think of Jack Sparrow, or, I believe, Charlie Chaplin's Tramp character. These are talents to let Rascals do what Rogues do in combat, although in a somewhat more Rascally manner.

    I might, maybe, possibly put up suggested Skill Lists, Save Progressions, Hit Dice, Starting Feats later.


    *That word, I hope it means what I think it means.

  3. - Top - End - #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Science Officer View Post
    -Gunman's ownership tree could be renamed the Gunsmith/Gunsmithing tree. Also could encompass the modification of guns.
    What I imagined when I thought of Ownership was the gunman being able to use guns of a higher technology level than would normally be allowed. I like "Ownership" as a name because it encompasses things like that in addition to modifications and construction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Science Officer View Post
    -I'd rename either the Doctor's Medicine or Science Tree "Physick" whichever seems more appropriate. No idea for a fourth.
    -Someone else suggested (and I concur) that Gangsters have a talent set for motor vehicles. Not sure what to call it. Something like:
    Automotive Tree - Maintaining and operating automobiles and motor-cycles.

    ...snip...

    -For the priest, a fourth skill set might be a "Sacrement Tree". not sure if that's the right word. It would involve the creation, concescration, and application of objects sacred to their religion.

    ...snip...

    -Suggestion for fourth Rascal Talent tree: the Panache* Tree. The ability to suceed at various endeavours by the skin of their teeth, through gumption, daring, and uncanny luck. Think of Jack Sparrow, or, I believe, Charlie Chaplin's Tramp character. These are talents to let Rascals do what Rogues do in combat, although in a somewhat more Rascally manner.
    Will do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Science Officer View Post
    ...mention of hoodoo...
    We should avoid the term hoodoo, which as I understand it is a mixture of African tribal faiths and Christianity from Haiti and New Orleans, and has little to do with Native American religion. (Unless I'm wrong and being offensive oh god I'm so sorry.)
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
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    Ah.
    Rascal talent:

    How did he do that?

    Basic: Once per day, you may reroll a single d20 roll, using the second result, even if it's worse.
    Improved: You may reroll three times per day, and use the higher of the two results, not just the second one.
    Master: Once per day, when you roll a natural one, you may instead treat the result as if you had rolled 25. If the roll was one where you would normally automatically succeed on a 20, you do not automatically succeed.

    And Gunman:

    Trusty Weapon

    Basic: Choose a single fancy or robust weapon. You may use that weapon in a tech level one lower than you normally could (a fancy weapon on the range, or a robust weapon in the wild).
    Improved: ?
    Master: ?
    Last edited by Eldan; 2010-12-02 at 02:58 PM.
    "The Drowned Man is not a God. He is from the North, and the North is too cold for gods."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Cool.

    I think the rascal should have some talents that actually make him more effective when he does things which are incredibly stupid, or at least when he's in greater danger. Living through extraordinary risk and occasionally fouling up is basically what he does with his life.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
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    Eldan's Avatar

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    Hmm. How about something like:

    I live for this kind of thing

    Basic: Once per day, when attempting a skill check that would normally not even succeed on a natural twenty, you can choose to gain a +5 luck bonus on that check.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2010-12-02 at 03:02 PM.
    "The Drowned Man is not a God. He is from the North, and the North is too cold for gods."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

  7. - Top - End - #277
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    We should avoid the term hoodoo, which as I understand it is a mixture of African tribal faiths and Christianity from Haiti and New Orleans, and has little to do with Native American religion. (Unless I'm wrong and being offensive oh god I'm so sorry.)
    That's what I was referring to. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was using it to refer to any Native American beliefs.

    I mentioned holy water (Christian), spirit masks (various), gris-gris bags (voodoo), and then had a link to the Bible's use in Hoodoo, using these as examples of "holy items" that the priest might use.


    Also:
    23 Skidoo - Rascal Foolhardy Talent
    -To, proverbially, "get while the going is good"
    Expending a Move Action, the Rascal allows all allied characters (PCs? Party members? there's gotta be a term) to move an additional 15' move speed(random guess number) until the end of the next combat round, so long as they are moving away from an enemy.
    Last edited by Science Officer; 2010-12-02 at 04:08 PM.

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    gkathellar's Avatar

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    Ah, I was thinking you were talking about priests from civilization and Natives priests, respectively. Shows what I get for trying to interpret while I read instead of waiting until I'm done.

    I put Panache under the list as "Foolhardy" because I think actual panache is covered pretty well by the other three (especially Prestidigitation and Charlatan) but at this point said list is just guidelines.

    I live for this kind of thing and 23 skidoo both look awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

    Play Legend. / Legend IRC.

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    Has anybody put a claim on working out the Wilderness Man class? Because I feel I might be up for that challenge.

    Possible Talent trees:

    Longhunter: trappers and others who live out in the wild for extended times alone.
    - Talents focused on long-range weapons, trap setting and general survivability.

    Crazy Hermit: Old man who has been out in the Wild a bit too much,
    - Talents involving knowledge of critters, and spirits, home made whiskey, and madness related things.

    Gone "Native": One o' "us" that's taken up the tribesman's ways.
    - Talents involving relating with the Native's and being attuned to their beliefs and skills.

    Lumberjack: Does this really need an explanation?
    - Talents focused on using axes and other tools, being ridiculously tough and wearing womenfolk's underwear great skill at climbing and roughhousin'.

    If there is already ideas being floated for this either point me to 'em or let me collaborate with somebody.

  10. - Top - End - #280
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    I think what we have covers it pretty well:

    Bunyan Tree - Achieving unsurpassed strength and power.
    Terrain Tree - Using the land to one's advantage effectively.
    Brute Tree - Forceful melee combat, armed and unarmed.
    Herbalism Tree - Knowing the dangers and uses of plants.

    Also (man, all these talents scattered between posts and pages are going to be a pain to collect):

    Wilderness Man Talent
    Here, Let Me Try - Bunyan Tree
    -A real wilderness man (or woman ?!) is just plain stronger than most civilized folk. They can haul heavy loads, straighten out horse shoes and toss varmints around like ninepins.
    Basic: All of your Carrying Capacities are increased by 200 pounds.
    Improved: Once per day a Wilderness Man may add +5 to a single Strength Check.
    Master: ...I don't know.

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    That needs to be better. A truly strong man in this setting must throw around Sequoias like it's the highland games for ice giants. They must bend the bars of a prison with their bare hands. They must wrestle bears and bisons to the ground one-handed.
    "The Drowned Man is not a God. He is from the North, and the North is too cold for gods."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

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    He wrestles a bison with hand and a bear with the other!
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

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    Wrong animals, but:



    Just read this on Cracked today.
    "The Drowned Man is not a God. He is from the North, and the North is too cold for gods."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Science Officer View Post
    I think what we have covers it pretty well:

    Bunyan Tree - Achieving unsurpassed strength and power.
    Terrain Tree - Using the land to one's advantage effectively.
    Brute Tree - Forceful melee combat, armed and unarmed.
    Herbalism Tree - Knowing the dangers and uses of plants.
    I dunno, I'd like to see a Trapper tree.
    You gotta' let me know, are we human,
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    Are we human, or are we dancers?

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    Zombie

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    Vagrant post

    Wilderness Man

    Bunyan tree:
    Just being straight up bigger than your foe is a big advantage...
    Basic: The Wilderness man increases his size catory by one. By some miracle, all his equipment increases in size with him.
    Intermediate: The wilderness man may use a single hand to grapple and pin opponents of a smaller size category than him. This means he may grapple two opponents at the same time if both hands are free.
    Master: If the wilderness man successfully pins an opponent, he may use that opponent as a weapon. A pinned opponent counts as a club one size category larger than the size category of the opponent for the sake of damage (Medium creature = Large club). Any attack rolls he makes using a pinned opponent as a weapon also count against the pinned opponent and damage is done to both his "weapon" and his target. Once a pinned opponents vitality points are gone, it becomes useless as a weapon and may not be used to hit things any more.
    Last edited by cheezewizz2000; 2010-12-02 at 06:57 PM.
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    One notable problem with giving a talent every level: you need at least 10 talents, and probably quite a few more so there's any real choice.
    "The Drowned Man is not a God. He is from the North, and the North is too cold for gods."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

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    Well, 4 talent trees each, if we could get 5 talents for each tree...

    Also, some references for power levels. I'm sorry to keep bringing up Star Wars, but that's how I know SAGA edition (is it used for anything else? )

    Darth Vader is level 19. Obi-Wan at the end of Episode III is level 14. Luke at the end of Episode VI is level 11. Chewbacca is level 10, Lando Calrissian is level 8.

    In this game setting, somewhere between Chewbacca and Lando Calrissian qualifies as 'Epic'


    ...and, More Talents!

    Gunman Talent
    Quick Draw - Gunfighter Tree
    Normal: While not caught flat-footed, a Gunman receives a +x bonus to his initiative, however during his first round he must draw his gun, and attempt to fire it at an enemy.
    Improved: The Quickdraw bonus is applied even while flat-footed. A gunslinger may also draw and fire his gun with a single standard action.

    I'm terrible at balance and rules, I should stop doing these these...

    Priest Talent
    Credo - Conviction Tree
    Normal A Priest adds their Priest level to their will save against all mind affecting effects.

  18. - Top - End - #288
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    Saga as written has problems actually representing the movies well despite being such an excellent systems, so I wouldn't say that any of the character statistics in it are really illustrative of anything.

    I think five to seven is a good baseline number of talents in each tree. Charming as the idea of specializing in only one of these trees is, it doesn't really make sense for any character concept I can think of. A few examples: a mob boss taking levels in the Gangster class realistically takes talents from both the Underworld and Persona trees. A farmer taking levels in engineer will take Farmpunk talents, yes, but he'll also take Hammerpunk and Quickpunk talents because they apply to things you would do as a farmer.

    Also, a thought: should talents have scaling effects based on the number of talents the user possesses from that tree? For example, save DC for a stranger's mental manipulation might be 10 + Charisma modifier + Number of Beguiling talents possessed.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
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    Ain't That a Kick in tha Head.

    Basic: You have mastered the subtle art of beating the crud out of someone. Your fists and feet deal an extra ?d? (not sure how big the damage bonus should be) damage, and another extra ?d? damage when your target is flat-footed.

    Intermediate: Your beatdowns leave a lasting mark upon their victims. Against anyone you've knocked out in the last month you gain a +2 on all rolls, and a +4 on Intimidate checks.

    Master: Anyone you hit with a unarmed strike must a DC?? Fortitude save or be staggered for the next round. Furthermore, anytime you get a critical with a unarmed strike, your for must make a DC?? Fortitude save or fall unconcious.
    The Cat Burglar by Ghar. Thanks!

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    A lot of the talents posted here have the same problem I talked about earlier: they don't do anything new, they just add bigger numbers. That doesn't make them very interesting to take.

    As an example: change the gunman's talent from "+x to initiative" to "Adds his wisdom bonus to initiative, and may draw his guns as an immediate action, even when it is not his turn" or something like that.

    Generally, they should do something you could not achieve without just better attributes or a couple of feats anyone else could take as well.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2010-12-03 at 04:32 AM.
    "The Drowned Man is not a God. He is from the North, and the North is too cold for gods."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

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    I'm bringing this back up to the front, as it looks like it got lost at the bottom of the last page.

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    It looks like this is what we've got so far, unless anyone objects (indentations under list points are meant to be simple and informative for anyone just looking at the thread now):
    • Basic Ruleset: D20, Saga-based, E7, Vitality Points (w/out insta-death by critical), Players Roll All the Dice
      • This means people will roll d20s and have six ability scores,
      • that we will be using elements of Star Wars Saga Edition's rules unless we say otherwise,
      • that characters will progress to 7th level before capping out and progressing only through feats and talents,
      • that characters will have vitality and wound points but weapons will not directly damage wound points on a critical hit,
      • and that players will roll previously static values, specifically defenses, instead of comparing enemy rolls to them.
    • Character Generation and Growth: Standard feat progression, 3/6/9 Saga-style ability score progression, Saga defense bonuses.
      Characters will gain feats at levels 1, 3, 6 and 9. At levels 3, 6, and 9, a character will choose two of his ability score and improve each by one. A character will receive a bonus to each of his defenses equal to his character level, and a bonus to damage rolls equal to half his level. Beyond this, characters will advance by their classes.
    • Character Species: Race/Species, Backgrounds
      There will be no race or species mechanics. All characters will be human. However, we will probably implement some sort of system for backgrounds, ala d20 modern/fantasy craft/iron heroes/etc.
    • Character Class: Eight classes - Doctor, Gangster, Gunman, Priest, Rascal, Stranger, Vagrant, Wilderness Man. 1 Talent per level.
      Each class will receive small defense bonuses and proficiencies at first level, a Base Attack Bonus, vitality/skill points at each level, a Talent at every level, and Talent Improvements and bonus feats at an undecided rate.
    • Skills: Will advance via points, as in 3.5 (or possibly as in Pathfinder), with a unique skill list.
      That was perfectly clear, you mad fool!
    • Feats: Feats represent general, non class-specific abilities that characters can choose. While some may provide flat numerical bonuses, all will provide some kind of option or ability on top of that.
      Ditto.
    • Talents: Each class will have a unique talent list. Each talent will have three levels - Basic, Intermediate and Master. A talent will be Basic when it's chosen, and characters will improve talents they already have at even-numbered levels.
      Why am I even still doing these indents? Why? WHY?
    • Equipment: Magic Items - Wild/Folk/Subtle, Technology - Fancy/Robust/Primitive, weapons each have a Critical Damage.
      Some magic items and technology will not function in certain settings. Weapons deal damage as normal have a threat range as normal, but instead of a critical modifier all weapon will have a "Critical Damage," determining the number of wound points of damage they deal on a critical hit in addition to their normal vitality damage.


    Standing questions (will add to this list if people raise things):
    [LIST][*]Defenses: Rolled or Static?
    And if they're rolled, do we mean that in a "players roll all the dice" way?
    Thoughts?
    Last edited by gkathellar; 2010-12-07 at 04:25 PM. Reason: Consistency.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
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    Looks fine. Though we should start agreeing on a level. I'm making the stranger E10 now, like the prototype Hobo, but cutting down will be easy.

    I'm still against static defences.
    "The Drowned Man is not a God. He is from the North, and the North is too cold for gods."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

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    Are you against them just conceptually, and advocating for players roll all the dice? Because as it stands, Defenses are effectively the only static values of this kind that players have.

    What's your take on the ability score question?
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

    Play Legend. / Legend IRC.

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    Here we go, Stranger first draft. New ability ideas welcome.

    The ability scores, I think, depend entirely on how many levels we do. +1 increass are pretty much meaningless if you only get one, so every four levels wouldn't make much sense if we went with less than E8.
    "The Drowned Man is not a God. He is from the North, and the North is too cold for gods."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

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    So, increase two ability scores by one at 3/6/9, or something of that like? That makes it reasonably significant. Moving that up from unresolved issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

    Play Legend. / Legend IRC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    We should avoid the term hoodoo, which as I understand it is a mixture of African tribal faiths and Christianity from Haiti and New Orleans, and has little to do with Native American religion. (Unless I'm wrong and being offensive oh god I'm so sorry.)
    If another nation will be included (which I'd sure like to help on, however obscure it might be), this could possibly work for some of its inhabitants, perhaps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Wrong animals, but:



    Just read this on Cracked today.
    Ha! Wicked. What does it read though? (A link to said article would be awesome too.)
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    It's a movie poster, apparently. From The 8 manliest movie posters.

    I'm not responsible for work time lost on Cracked.


    If anyone makes a Gunman soon, I just noticed that storms make it impossible to shoot ranged weapons. They need a talent for that.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2010-12-03 at 08:35 AM.
    "The Drowned Man is not a God. He is from the North, and the North is too cold for gods."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

  28. - Top - End - #298
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    AugustNights's Avatar

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    Aug 2006
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    Default Re: Fun Down On the Farmpunk: Join in!

    I read this article that reedir posted in his Pricing Artwork Thread, seems to make sense to me, and I think tall tales leave a little room for growth on such things, so E7 should be pretty good, in my mind.

    I mean... lets think about the crazy folk-legends.
    Out Fiddle the Devil? That's Subjective as hell, and depends on the Devils Skill.
    Fall a forest in 10 minutes? Uhm... there's a talent for that right?
    Out Hammer a Machine? Again, pretty subjective.
    Shoot the fingers off a man? Considering the man probably was your Average thug, he probably had an AC of about 12, +4 for a called shot, maybe +2 more for a tricky called shot, total AC of a 16, At L.6 That's a shoe in every time.
    Wrestle a Bear? CR 4. No sweat.
    Seems like 6-7 would be appropriate.
    My preferred pronouns are they, them, and their.

  29. - Top - End - #299
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gkathellar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fun Down On the Farmpunk: Join in!

    Why don't we make it E8, just for good measure? (Besides, that way skill ranks can go to eleven, and I turn to dust if I don't make a Spinal Tap reference at least every other hour.)

    Then the last question is whether players roll all the dice or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Morph Bark's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fun Down On the Farmpunk: Join in!

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    Why don't we make it E8, just for good measure? (Besides, that way skill ranks can go to eleven, and I turn to dust if I don't make a Spinal Tap reference at least every other hour.)

    Then the last question is whether players roll all the dice or not.
    We could always make a feat for going up to eleven?

    Up To Eleven
    Prerequisite: 10 ranks in at least one skill
    Benefit: Your maximum ranks in all skills go up by 1 and you gain 1 extra skill point every time you gain a feat.
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