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[gkathellar]

This idea surfaced in the other thread:

Hmm, perhaps all characters should start with 3 talents at level 1 just to give level 1 characters a few more options than "I demoralise him"

Why not.

I'm a fan of it, as well, so for the moment I'll put it in the list with the rest of the system basics. I'm also accelerating feat gain slightly, as this is only E7. As always, if anyone disagrees with any of this, they should feel free to speak up.

This is the system so far, unless anyone objects (indentations under list points are meant to be simple and informative for anyone just looking at the thread now):

• Basic Ruleset: D20, Saga-based, E7, Vitality Points (w/out insta-death by critical), Players Roll All the Dice
  
  • This means people will roll d20s and have six ability scores,
  • that we will be using elements of Star Wars Saga Edition's rules unless we say otherwise,
  • that characters will progress to 7th level before capping out and progressing only through feats and talents,
  • that characters will have vitality and wound points but weapons will not directly damage wound points on a critical hit,
  • and that players will roll previously static values, specifically defenses, instead of comparing enemy rolls to them.
• Character Generation and Growth: Standard feat progression, 3/6/9 Saga-style ability score progression, Saga defense bonuses.
  
  Characters will gain feats at levels 1, 3, 5 and 7. At levels 3 and 6 a character will choose two of his ability score and improve each by one. A character will receive a bonus to each of his defenses equal to his character level, and a bonus to damage rolls equal to half his level. Beyond this, characters will advance by their classes.
• Character Species: Race/Species, Backgrounds
  
  There will be no race or species mechanics. All characters will be human. However, we will probably implement some sort of system for backgrounds, ala d20 modern/fantasy craft/iron heroes/etc.
• Character Class: Eight classes - Doctor, Gangster, Gunman, Priest, Rascal, Stranger, Vagrant, Wilderness Man. 1 Talent per level.
  
  Each class will receive small defense bonuses and proficiencies at first level, a Base Attack Bonus, vitality/skill points at each level, three Talents at first level and one more at every level thereafter, a Talent Improvement at every even-numbered level, and bonus feats at an undecided rate.
• Skills: Will advance via points, as in 3.5 (or possibly as in Pathfinder), with a unique skill list.
  
  That was perfectly clear, you mad fool!
• Feats: Feats represent general, non class-specific abilities that characters can choose. While some may provide flat numerical bonuses, all will provide some kind of option or ability on top of that.
  
  Ditto.
• Talents: Each class will have a unique talent list. Each talent will have three levels - Basic, Intermediate and Master. A talent will be Basic when it's chosen, and characters will improve talents they already have at even-numbered levels.
  
  Why am I even still doing these indents? Why? WHY?
• Equipment: Magic Items - Wild/Folk/Subtle, Technology - Fancy/Robust/Primitive, weapons each have a Critical Wounds. "Cold Iron" and "Alchemical Silver" become "Iron" and "Silver" respectively, and see a reduction in damage die size.
  
  Some magic items and technology will not function in certain settings. Weapons deal damage as normal, have a threat range as normal, but instead of a critical modifier all weapons will have a "Critical Damage," determining the number of wound points of damage they deal on a critical hit in addition to their normal vitality damage. Special materials should be pretty clear.

Also, it occurs to me that we might want to start one or two new threads soon - possibly one for mechanics and one for setting? Either the current thread could take one of those roles or could remain for general brainstorming.

[cheezewizz2000]

I'd vote to keep this one for general brain-storming. Basically anything which could start with

I didn't want to derail the other thread, but

That way, so long as we agree that this thread will forever be completely off the rails, the other threads can chug along in a nice orderly fashion.

ALSO!

Capstones. No class has them and all level 7 grants is another talent. I'd be tempted to say that level 7 grants a new talent & improvement, like an even-numbered level, otherwise you finish your class with a damp pop rather than a bang.

[Eldan]

Sounds like a +10 bonus to Overrun and Bull-rush... since those skills aren't used much, it actually makes them MAYBE worth doing every-so-once-in-a-while, which gets around the "bigger numbers" problem. If static bonuses are a problem, make it your strength SCORE (not modifier), or perhaps half that.

I'd actually just give a plain +5 on all strength checks. There aren't that many.


On finishing classes: Originally, the idea was a talent at every odd level, so we said E(odd number) so that you'd get one on your last level, instead of a less cool feat. Now that you get a feat every level and an improvement on every even one, we should probably change to E8 or something.

[gkathellar]

Why not go the E6 route of having extra-powerful feats accessible only to characters who take all seven levels of a class? If you're getting a feat at 7th level, then you can grab one before you start to go epic. Maybe 3-4 per class, and you can only take one?

[Morph Bark]

Why not go the E6 route of having extra-powerful feats accessible only to characters who take all seven levels of a class? If you're getting a feat at 7th level, then you can grab one before you start to go epic. Maybe 3-4 per class, and you can only take one?

As a kind of capstone feat? I like this idea. Would it be the actual capstone though, or would there also be something else? (Admittably, I've been out of the loop of many things and haven't looked more than a glance at the posted classes.)

[Eldan]

I think, the way we are setting this up now, we could actually leave the EX open. Think about it: as opposed to D&D, there's no real scaling class features, and certainly bound to level. After you get your first master talent, the only thing you add is more variety, but rarely more power. So, basically, leveling up gives you new, but not stronger, abilities, a few more vitality and skill points and a bonus to your saves. That's it.

[Eldan]

Sorry for the double post, but this was proposed over in the Stranger thread, and I think it should be mentioned here.

Soulless (subtype)

Creatures with the soulless subtype have, literally, no soul. This manifests in many ways: soulless creatures have, in general, fewer strong emotions and little imagination (which manifests itself in a typically low charisma score, in game terms). They are also unusually resistant to magic, and tend not to believe in "all that stuff."

Soulless creatures have the following immunities and resistances:

-Muted emotions: soulless creatures are ignore all effects, positive and negative, of all forms of music, and all class abilities dependent on emotions, such as a priests conviction and inspiration abilities. They can never benefit from a morale bonus in anyway. They have a +4 bonus on all checks to resist diplomacy.

-Magic resistant: Soulless creatures have a +4 racial bonus on all saves against all supernatural and spell-like abilities.


An example of this are agents, which are Aberrations (soulless).

[cheezewizz2000]

Sorry for the double post, but this was proposed over in the Stranger thread, and I think it should be mentioned here.

Soulless (subtype)

Creatures with the soulless subtype have, literally, no soul. This manifests in many ways: soulless creatures have, in general, fewer strong emotions and little imagination (which manifests itself in a typically low charisma score, in game terms). They are also unusually resistant to magic, and tend not to believe in "all that stuff."

Soulless creatures have the following immunities and resistances:

-Muted emotions: soulless creatures are ignore all effects, positive and negative, of all forms of music, and all class abilities dependent on emotions, such as a priests conviction and inspiration abilities. They can never benefit from a morale bonus in anyway. They have a +4 bonus on all checks to resist diplomacy.

-Magic resistant: Soulless creatures have a +4 racial bonus on all saves against all supernatural and spell-like abilities.


An example of this are agents, which are Aberrations (soulless).

We should probably tie as much to charisma as possible. High charisma pretty much typifies a lot of the people in folk myths anyway: great overblown personalities. That would make having your soul removed (and thus having ~1 charisma) quite a blow to many class abilities, just to make up for the resistances given above. I'm uncomfortable with having no soul providing only bonuses.

Also, I take it "soul" is synonymous with both "the thing that gives a corpse life" and the more bluesy "I got soul" idea?

[Eldan]

Aye. Though you can apparently live without a soul, so it's more the second. And you don't necessarily have 1 charisma. Agents still have 8. They just don't use it much, they are more intimidating than friendly.

[cheezewizz2000]

Aye. Though you can apparently live without a soul, so it's more the second. And you don't necessarily have 1 charisma. Agents still have 8. They just don't use it much, they are more intimidating than friendly.

Ok. Here's a thing to blow your mind:

Is there a way to return a lost soul, and what would that do to a member of the administration?

[Eldan]

Ooh.

Agent Smith in the first matrix movie. He apparently got a soul somehow: started ranting and getting angry, showed generally way more emotion than the other agents, eventually broke away and became a freelancer.

Maybe a high level priest ability?


(Of course, the Agents look more twenties and thirties in appearance than the Matrix agents' 60-80s look, that's why I used Bale and not Weaving as a picture.)

[cheezewizz2000]

Ooh.

Agent Smith in the first matrix movie. He apparently got a soul somehow: started ranting and getting angry, showed generally way more emotion than the other agents, eventually broke away and became a freelancer.

Maybe a high level priest ability?

It would probably be the master level ability of the tree that heals mental ability damage. It would also piss off Ol'Scratch and Cypher as it probably steals souls directly from them.

Also, if the stranger does get a way to drain the soul from a living person, that ability needs to add the "soulless" subtype. Perhaps stronger administration entities can also extract souls...

[Eldan]

I think if the administration does it, it's a long procedure involving being strapped to a dentist chair, various drugs and serious talks with high-ranking officials

[gkathellar]

At the low levels, at least. Also, are Agents of the Administration former humans? I was thinking they were just things that looked human. That or walking corpses. Maybe a mix of all three?

Also, I was looking at a book on urban legends as American folklore I have called "the Vanishing Hitchhiker" for the first time in a while, and thinking maybe I should throw out some of the recurring stories examined therein for brainstorming purposes:

Spoiler

Show

• "The Death Car" - an used automobile is being sold for a very low price because it was discovered with a decayed corpse in the trunk. No one can remove the smell of death from the vehicle, however.
• "The Vanishing Hitchhiker" - a driver picks up a hitchhiker who claims to live only a few miles away. When the driver arives, the hitchhiker is gone, and usually either the "house" is a cemetery or the people in the house inform the driver that the rider was their daughter who died several years ago. Sometimes a prop is involved.
• "The Hook" - You know this one. Teenagers, making out, escaped convict warning on the radio, hook on the door handle.
• "The Killer In the Backseat" - Exactly how it sounds. A concerned citizen saves a woman from a killer he spots in the backseat of her car.
• "The Babysitter and the Man Upstairs" - Again, pretty much what it sounds like. The children being babysat usually end up dead, the babysitter usually makes it out.
• "The Spider In the Hairdo" - A girl achieves a perfect hairdo (often beehive), and refuses to wash it. Consequently, bugs start living in it and eventually eat their way into her brain.
• "Alligators In the Sewers" - No need to explain.
• "Dead Cat in the Package" - Self-explanatory. Happens in a city, where it's hard to dispose of your dead pets.
• "The Runaway Grandmother" - A corpse is packaged or wrapped in something, and consequently unknowingly stolen.
• A million stories about nudity - seriously guys this is like half the book guys whats wrong with my country's culture guys.
• "The Snake In the Blanket" - Someone buys a foreign rug, reaches into it without unrolling it, and gets bitten by a live venomous snake inside. Often, several additional snake eggs have hatched.
• Endless stories about ghost truckers, ghost trains and ghost airlines - Much better, country.
• "The Devil in the Dancehall" - A woman is dancing and having the time of her life, until she looks down and sees her partner has chicken's feet (a classical sign of the devil). She screams, and he disappears in a cloud of sulphur, leaving behind only some great dance steps.
• Kidnapping Stories - All over the place.

[Eldan]

The snake one might not even be wrong...

I worked in the insect collection for a while, and they had a small section of non-insect Arthropods. There, in one drawer, was a huge bird-eating spider. Now, everything in the collection has a sign on it saying which species it is and where it was collected.

This spider?

"Unknown species, likely from South America. Found alive in a box of bananas."

[cheezewizz2000]

If a priest can return a soul, can a doctor return life? This wouldn't be anything like a cleric's ability to ressurect. I'd say something more akin to CPR and it would be a Master Level Talent, say:

BREATHE, DAMNIT
Basic: The doctor can heal a target's non-fatal wounds. The target must have at least one wound remaining and must have suffered a wound in the last 10 +2x the doctor's level minutes. In a procedure taking ten minutes and requiring absolute concentration and a doctor's tools, the doctor may restore a a single wound to the target.

Intermediate: If the doctor stabilises a dying character, he may restore a number of wound points equal to half the doctor's level. The target may talk normally and eat, however they are otherwise helpless for 24 hours.

Master: If a dying character has failed the save to become stable within a number of minutes equal to the doctor's level, the doctor may attempt to bring the character back to life. This takes a full minute of dedicated concentration and work and requires a heal check against DC15+1 for every minute that the person has been dead. The character brought back becomes merely dying, instead of dead.

Edit: Sorry this is off-topic. It was meant to be posted about 5 hours ago, but I had to rush off.

[Eldan]

Suggestion for Basic:

Emergency surgery: the doctor can heal a targets non-fatal wounds. The target must have suffered a wound in the last fifteen minutes. This wound can't be the target's last wound. In a procedure taking ten minutes and requiring absolute concentration and a doctor's tools, restore a single wound point to the target.

[cheezewizz2000]

Suggestion for Basic:

Emergency surgery: the doctor can heal a targets non-fatal wounds. The target must have suffered a wound in the last fifteen minutes. This wound can't be the target's last wound. In a procedure taking ten minutes and requiring absolute concentration and a doctor's tools, restore a single wound point to the target.

I like that one more.

Changed, with a little edit.

[Eldan]

Good. But add "none of the wounds restored can be older than the time limit". I.e. taking out the bullet in the gunman's shoulder does not restore the hand he broke yesterday.

[Science Officer]

It would probably be the master level ability of the tree that heals mental ability damage. It would also piss off Ol'Scratch and Cypher as it probably steals souls directly from them.

That sounds like a great campaign hook. One of the PCs sold their soul to save their farm/family/village. Now they're on a quest to get it back, by any means (getting it back from the buyer or finding an appropriate healer).

Also, required reading, methinks.
Edit: fixed link. url suffered from the S****horpe problem.

Also: how does healing work? (Just fine, thank you.)
I remember in SAGA edition, you were limited to once-a-day first aid, a force power, long-term healing, and surgery.
It felt very awkward, to me at least, that there was nothing between first aid and surgery.


It seems we'll have the doctor using talents to heal, long-term healing, and magic items for healing. Will there be a heal skill? I forget.
Also, still not sure about how the wounds/vitality work (I'll figure it out eventually), but in SWSE health points were restored and the condition track improved via different means.
How will the different types of healing be able to affect the various health measurements?

[Eldan]

That link is broken, due to both censorship (there's four **** in the middle) and a double http.

[cheezewizz2000]

Good. But add "none of the wounds restored can be older than the time limit". I.e. taking out the bullet in the gunman's shoulder does not restore the hand he broke yesterday.

I dunno, I think a doctor of sufficient talent could patch you up... A few splints here, a bit of morphine there...

That link is broken, due to both censorship (there's four **** in the middle) and a double http.

Hmm... could that be a classic rap, methinks? A classis hit seems unlikely...

[Eldan]

Well, yeah. But it doesn't make much sense in the context. It's emergency surgery. Pulling the bullet out that was just put in. Tourniquets. CPR. That kind of stuff. THat doesn't heal day-old wounds.

[Science Officer]

Yeah. "classic" "lit[erature]".
Censor doesn't like them put together.


And on old/new wounds, aside from what I edited into the earlier post, different talents could heal different things.

Re-editposting:

Also: how does healing work? (Just fine, thank you.)
I remember in SAGA edition, you were limited to once-a-day first aid, a force power, long-term healing, and surgery.
It felt very awkward, to me at least, that there was nothing between first aid and surgery.


It seems we'll have the doctor using talents to heal, long-term healing, and magic items for healing. Will there be a heal skill? I forget.
Also, still not sure about how the wounds/vitality work (I'll figure it out eventually), but in SWSE health points were restored and the condition track improved via different means.
How will the different types of healing be able to affect the various health measurements?

[cheezewizz2000]

Well, yeah. But it doesn't make much sense in the context. It's emergency surgery. Pulling the bullet out that was just put in. Tourniquets. CPR. That kind of stuff. THat doesn't heal day-old wounds.

A point well made. I might knock it back to "a single wound" as well.

[Eldan]

Yeah. "classic" "lit[erature]".
Censor doesn't like them put together.


And on old/new wounds, aside from what I edited into the earlier post, different talents could heal different things.

Ooh. *facepalm*

I tried every other four-letter word I could think off, but not that one.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Wait, is there an alternate thread that just has system talk in it?

[Eldan]

No, not yet. We just said we should probably make one. And I think a compilation thread as well, where we gather all the finished material.

Also, required reading, methinks.

Whoever that guy reading it is, I love his accent.

[Org]

So, I just read this entire thread, and it is so cool!
I might try to contribute to it later, but I have a question, since I may have missed this: Where did the Farmer class go?

[cheezewizz2000]

So, I just read this entire thread, and it is so cool!
I might try to contribute to it later, but I have a question, since I may have missed this: Where did the Farmer class go?

It didn't go anywhere, it just got subsumed into engineer because it got seen as a general Mr-Fixit class (or possibly and Artificier, with tech) and hasn't gotten around to being created.

Why don't you create it? Go on, it's fun. Join us! Joiiiiiin uuuuuuussssss...