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  1. - Top - End - #391
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    gkathellar's Avatar

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    The possibility of a Sleuth/Investigator/Agent class has been brought up a second time, I notice. Are we sticking with the eight we had, or adding a ninth?

    Also, it seems like time we got those new threads started. If no one has any objections or a deep desire to do them, I'd be willing to draft them up.

    RE: Cursed Bullet, 1 profane damage seems a little weak and bonus-y, unless profane damage has an effect beyond just damage.
    Last edited by gkathellar; 2010-12-15 at 12:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

  2. - Top - End - #392
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    So, I am trying to do the Farmer class, but I'm not sure what to make it.
    Like, what is the Farmer class supposed to be? I know he is like an engineer, that whole fixing things with chicken wire or what not, but what else?

  3. - Top - End - #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Org View Post
    So, I am trying to do the Farmer class, but I'm not sure what to make it.
    Like, what is the Farmer class supposed to be? I know he is like an engineer, that whole fixing things with chicken wire or what not, but what else?
    I would say base it on the artificier. Farmer will probably be the hardest class to make given the limitations of the talent system, so don't worry if you find that he isn't versatile enough, or that sticking to the "engineer" premise is too hard. Think of farmers & what a REALLY stereotypical one would do/does and base talents off of that.

    Some possibilities for talents:

    Get offa my property:
    A talent tree that would deal with making attacks of opportunity against opponents that move into a farmer's threatened area. Possibly even extending the area that counts as "threatened" by a farmer, to allow for double-barreled shotgun boom-to-the-face shennanigans to anyone who moves within 20' of the farmer (human turret!)

    Pig Wrastlin' or Break 'em in!
    Bonuses to grappling, perhaps even extending to "riding" creatures that the farmer is grappling and using them to his own ends without taking attacks of opportunity (battlefield mobility!)

    Spit n' Chicken wire
    Modifying tech (guns are tech!) to do crazy things. Stick a table in there, have options that can be done at basic, intermediate and master level. Suggestions include: allowing fancy kit to work fine in the range, allowing fancy kit to work in the wild, scopes, extended mags, steam powered car engines, steam powered melee weapons, moonshine substituting for petrol, moonshine substituting for coal, coal powered mech suits... perhaps not THAT crazy, but mechanical limbs are a possiblity. (Turn that mobile human turret into an effing tank!)

    (Something a bit folky, can't think of a decent name)
    Modifying magic stuff to do crazy thngs. Again, stick a table in. Perahps the moonshine powered things can go in this one.

    Horse Whisperin'
    Ability to calm animals down. Ability to talk to animals as if they can understand you perfectly. Ability to use enchantment like abilities on animals, magical beasts or even humans (little bit of battlefield control).

    Little Brown Jug
    Free Bonus music feats! Bonuses to perfom checks!

    Vetinarian
    Minor healing abilities. Less wound fixy than the doctor, but more vitality healing and temporary vitality points.
    Last edited by cheezewizz2000; 2010-12-15 at 02:22 PM.
    Trust me. I'm a geologist.

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  4. - Top - End - #394
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    gkathellar's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Org View Post
    So, I am trying to do the Farmer class, but I'm not sure what to make it.
    Like, what is the Farmer class supposed to be? I know he is like an engineer, that whole fixing things with chicken wire or what not, but what else?
    A while ago we were moving in the direction that Farmer is a subset of Engineer - that is to say, engineers have a variety of farm-based talents available to them. An actual farmer might be an Engineer or Wilderness Man, or be a combination of the two.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

  5. - Top - End - #395
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    Spoilered to avoid derailment:

    Spoiler
    Show

    Unstoppable is a movie about a runaway train that will decimate a small city in Pennsylvania if it isn't stopped. It's corny as hell, but dang it if there isn't an Americana-punk one-shot to be inspired by that movie. High level Vagrants would be able to solve that issue with no effort at all, but the two main characters come across as more of a couple of Engineers, or possibly an Engineer and a Rascal. Very entertaining film, wouldn't see it more than once though.


    That is all.
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  6. - Top - End - #396
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    This is relevant:
    Sinfest: The Hobo Signal!
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  7. - Top - End - #397
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    I'm going over what we have so far in terms of rules, and it occurs to me that only two ability increases (even to two stats, as in Saga) is kind of light - that totals up to two modifiers being 1 point higher. Kind of insignificant.

    Maybe four ability increases, coming in at levels 2, 4, 6 and 8? That gives characters a +2 to two modifiers, which is more respectable. It also decreases the wait on ability boosts, which gives a sense of "woo my ability score went up" sooner - a nice feeling even when there's no tangible benefit.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

  8. - Top - End - #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    I'm going over what we have so far in terms of rules, and it occurs to me that only two ability increases (even to two stats, as in Saga) is kind of light - that totals up to two modifiers being 1 point higher. Kind of insignificant.

    Maybe four ability increases, coming in at levels 2, 4, 6 and 8? That gives characters a +2 to two modifiers, which is more respectable. It also decreases the wait on ability boosts, which gives a sense of "woo my ability score went up" sooner - a nice feeling even when there's no tangible benefit.
    Point 1
    So four levels at which you increase two abilities? That seems reasonable considering I can't see magic items with a "+x to y" being all that common.

    If this is the ability score schema that we will be using, I think we should try to keep a similar philosophy with our magic items as we do with talents: Less increaseing numbers, more new abilities. The issue with that is that very soon all characters should be hitting the T1/T2 mark as all characters will have at least some way to solve common problems, and a group is very likely to be able to use a combination of abilities to solve less common ones.

    A ballancing point could be that these new abilities are situational, such as the Vagrant's ability to control the speed of a train: functionally useless in any situation in which a train is not involved. The problem with this is that any ability that is functionally useless is dead weight.

    I guess to cut a long ramble short, this ability score increase gives us more slack to run a bit more wild with talent and magic item creation, but we need to be careful to make sure that situational talents have use outside of their situation. Magic items matter less in that regard, and making them situational to the point of uselessness is less of an issue as they can be discarded.

    Point 2
    It will get very difficult as this project grows to stay within the forum's rules. E.g.: I think posting on the Vagrant thread is now commiting thread necromancy, however as classes are all in their initial stages of development they will need to be revisted after long hiatuses to balance them against new classes, add new talents and switch up old ones that are either out of date or just plain crap.

    Would it be worth finding someone to create a wiki for the farmpunk stuff so that we have our own discussion space? A HUGE downside to that is that there is less scope for people to drop in with their own ideas, which is what this really needs. Giantitp has a great community and to go onto our own seperate site would be cutting that tie, so it may be too early for this at this stage.

    Point 3
    What ever happened to The Vorpal Tribble? I was convinced he'd have more to say about what we're doing to his idea. A homebrewer of his calibre would be very useful to have and I'm sure he could fill in the gaps in terms of talents with some of the classes.
    Trust me. I'm a geologist.

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  9. - Top - End - #399
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    gkathellar's Avatar

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    Point 1: I agree that magic items should be less "numbers" and more "do cool things." In general, not just for this project. Winged boots are much more interesting than a cloak of resistance, a holy sword is much more interesting than a +1 sword.

    Point 2: I've been putting together new mechanics and setting threads in a text file over these past couple of days. One or two threads should be much easier to keep up than a whole bunch. Do I have permission to include your stuff for the Vagrant?

    (And more broadly, do I have permission to move other people's talents and class chassises into it?)

    Point 3: No idea. Hopefully he'll like the way we repainted his house while he was away.

    EDIT: Also, I'm not 100% sure about this, you should probably check the forum rules first, but I think a thread creator can necromantilize their own threads legally.
    Last edited by gkathellar; 2010-12-17 at 07:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

  10. - Top - End - #400
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    I give permission for any and all work that I post on these forums, especially within the farmpunk/americanapunk threads, to be used by anyone in homebrew projects. If anything gets used in a game, all I ask is that a PM gets thrown my way to tell me how it went down.

    If you make money off of it, throw some scratch my way, otherwise just invite me to your new mansions and give me an open invite to use your heated pool and drink your beer.
    Trust me. I'm a geologist.

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  11. - Top - End - #401
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    gkathellar's Avatar

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    If I somehow make money off of making two new threads for the community to develop this project on, I will gladly invite you to my giant hobo-themed water park.

    But seriously, I'm mostly just compiling stuff in one place so I can use my evil editing privileges to dominate all life that it's easier to work with/manage/introduce oneself to. As is, you have to read 14 pages of thread backlog to know what's going on here.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

  12. - Top - End - #402
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    If I somehow make money off of making two new threads for the community to develop this project on, I will gladly invite you to my giant hobo-themed water park.

    But seriously, I'm mostly just compiling stuff in one place so I can use my evil editing privileges to dominate all life that it's easier to work with/manage/introduce oneself to. As is, you have to read 14 pages of thread backlog to know what's going on here.
    S'why I archived most (I think all) of the mechanical/setting suggestions. That's ongoing, and I'll continue to update that post and move it forward every so often, but having it all in one place on the front page of a fresh new thread is probably a better way forward.

    You'll probably want to reserve a few posts to keep things seperate. Setting fluff, rules, classes, magic items, etc, but you're an experienced poster; you'll know that anyway. I'm just rambling really. Avoiding work. Tum tee tum...
    Trust me. I'm a geologist.

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  13. - Top - End - #403
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Feel free to use my stuff as well! We can set up a free wiki on one of the wiki farms, like wikia, for info dumps, until we find a better location.

  14. - Top - End - #404
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    Necro'ing won't cause a problem with the rules if it's the thread creator who necro's it (special homebrew forum rule)
    You gotta' let me know, are we human,
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    Are we human, or are we dancers?

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  15. - Top - End - #405
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    Eldan's Avatar

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    I started a new thread here. I suggest we use this thread for discussion, and the new one for gathering all material.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

  16. - Top - End - #406
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Quick note: You do not have the header for "The Doctor" above the Doctor's spoilered class.

  17. - Top - End - #407
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    Noted and corrected.
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  18. - Top - End - #408
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    On another note, would a feat that allows access to one talent from another class be something desired?

  19. - Top - End - #409
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    Well, I think we can already do multiclassing normally, so I'm not sure it's necessary.

    Furthermore, I've thought about music. Specifically: characters only get a handful of feats, and I'm not sure songs are worth a feat. My suggestion:

    "For every 4 ranks in the perform skill, you learn one song."
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  20. - Top - End - #410
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    And individual songs have specific effects, such as bonuses?

  21. - Top - End - #411
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    We had a list of them written up somewhere. I remember one which allowed you to use performance instead of diplomacy, and one which allowed performance instead of gather information.
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  22. - Top - End - #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    We had a list of them written up somewhere. I remember one which allowed you to use performance instead of diplomacy, and one which allowed performance instead of gather information.
    Music Feats can be found

    Here

    and

    Here.

    Edit: WRT learning songs as you gain skills, do we want more things like that? Learning little abilities as you skill up, or shall we leave that as a music and dance exclusive thing, to make those more "special"?

    I guess adding more would start to cross over with Talents, at least if they're music exlusive way everyone can be a little bit Bard, but it would be silly if the Vagrant became a little bit Stranger.

    Edit edit: If we're allowing you to use perform instead of gather info etc without spending a feat, then the check needs some sort of penalty, otherwise you essentially gain 7 ranks in butt-loads more skills, just by focusing on perform. Essentially, it becomes pointless to skill up in anything other than perform.
    Last edited by cheezewizz2000; 2010-12-20 at 09:05 AM.
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  23. - Top - End - #413
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    Well, we already included "needs X minutes", "can't be hasted", "needs a peaceful audience". I'd add "needs an instrument", but that's probably still not enough. Maybe one feat for all special music?
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  24. - Top - End - #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Well, we already included "needs X minutes", "can't be hasted", "needs a peaceful audience". I'd add "needs an instrument", but that's probably still not enough. Maybe one feat for all special music?
    Yeah. Feats are like gold-dust anyway. Perhaps keep dance-fighting as a seperate feat (if you keep it at all), just because giving someone the ability to transfer skills AND their attack rolls to one skill with a single feat is a touch obscene. Basically, by the end of the feat, most charisma-based skills should be keyed off of perform, with no synergy bonuses. There's the kicker, I think. Having bluff + Diplomacy results in a +2 to both. Having diplomacy and perform nets you naff all, and if you want to spend a feat, you make those ranks in diplomacy redundant. As you're levelling, you might want diplomacy, but have the music feat and won't be getting access to perform-instead-of-diplomacy for a couple more levels. (Though diplomacy is a bad example, as I think that should be the FIRST skill you get to swap)

    Edit: Or, perhaps this should be the talent common to all classes.
    Basic: Intimidate & duelling banjos
    Intermediate: Gather information & Diplomacy
    Master:
    Use Magic Device?
    - play music at a wand of fireball until it goes off.

    Handle Animal?
    - Sing at a dog until it learns to sit

    Disguse?
    - "LA LA LA! I'M NOT ME! LA LA LA! I AM A GUARD!"
    Guard: "His song is VERY convincing. I'll believe him."

    All of the above?
    Last edited by cheezewizz2000; 2010-12-20 at 09:48 AM.
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  25. - Top - End - #415
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    So, I was trying to work on the gangster, and I was not sure of his role, so I was wondering what we thought the roles of each class are. I think it might help in the 'brewing.

    Wilderness Man - Melee, high hp, tank
    Stranger - Mageish, controller
    Doctor - Healer, some melee
    Gunslinger - Ranged
    Vagrant - Mageish,
    Rascal - Rogueish?
    Priest - Buffer?
    Gangster - Melee, face?
    Engineer/Farmer - Crafting for combat?

    I am not sure on these, which is why I am asking. There is only one that I classified as ranged, which may or may not be a problem. I am not sure how you get more ranged out of this setting.

  26. - Top - End - #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0tt3r View Post
    So, I was trying to work on the gangster, and I was not sure of his role, so I was wondering what we thought the roles of each class are. I think it might help in the 'brewing.

    Wilderness Man - Melee, high hp, tank
    Stranger - Mageish, controller
    Doctor - Healer, some melee
    Gunslinger - Ranged
    Vagrant - Mageish,
    Rascal - Rogueish?
    Priest - Buffer?
    Gangster - Melee, face?
    Engineer/Farmer - Crafting for combat?

    I am not sure on these, which is why I am asking. There is only one that I classified as ranged, which may or may not be a problem. I am not sure how you get more ranged out of this setting.
    On the problem of not enough ranged:
    Everyone can use guns. Guns deal A LOT of damage (2dX where X is 6 for pistols, 8 for rifles and 10 for high-powered rifles in D20 modern, as a rule of thumb). As such, a guy who can use gun well will be a DPS MACHINE. This is why the gunslinger will probably focus on getting really good with pistols, considering it's the weakest gun and still the equivalent of a GREATSWORD THAT YOU CAN DUEL-WIELD AT RANGE? OH SWEET MERCY!

    As I see it:

    Wilderness Man - Melee/tank (note: Needs to resist debuffs more effectively. Charisma to saves, anyone? "Ha Ha Ha! Your puny evil glare is no match for Paul Bunyan (no relation), Stranger!")

    Stranger - controller/debuffer

    Doctor - Physical Healer/buffer/debuffer

    Gunslinger - Ranged sniper/Horse riding specialist

    Vagrant - Paladin/Jack of all trades

    Rascal - Rogue/Stealthy/Charismatic (sounding a bit sleuthy to me actually, perhaps I'll shut up about having an agent class if this guy gets a guv'ment tree...)

    Priest - Mental Healer/Buffer/Debuffer

    Gangster - Melee-Debuffer/Driving specialist/Ranged Controller (pinning people behind cover with a tommy gun? Abilities to control the shape of the AOE attacks with automatic weapons?)

    Engineer/Farmer - Equipment buffer/mobile turret attack-of-opportunity specilaist
    Last edited by cheezewizz2000; 2010-12-20 at 10:45 AM.
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  27. - Top - End - #417
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    The Gangster is in my eyes partially D&Ds monk, if the monk didn't suck and had no mystical flavour.

    Good at unarmed combat and with improvised weapon, but also at intimidation. Driving might be a thing, if we go for that.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

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    Debuffer.
    Also, while the rascal gets by on luck and the occasional con, I think the Gangster knows which mob-boss to talk to to get:
    1) Any low rank NPC ganked
    2) Any large amount of illegal substances (Including but not limited to booze)
    3) A place to stay to lay low
    4) A little political lubrication, as it were.
    Connections, and enemies, as well I guess, but more so the connections.
    What does every classic gangster have? A boss over him who supplies him or her with something that they normally couldn't get their hands on.
    You do, of course, have those that are their own bosses, but even they know who's who in the game of crime and the big city.
    Come with me, time out of mind...

  29. - Top - End - #419
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    Made some updates to the stranger.
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  30. - Top - End - #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    The Gangster is in my eyes partially D&Ds monk, if the monk didn't suck and had no mystical flavour.

    Good at unarmed combat and with improvised weapon, but also at intimidation. Driving might be a thing, if we go for that.
    This made me think of a gangster leaping off the top of a fast-moving car to deliver an extra-strong punch. It was an amusingly awesome mental image.
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