Fun Down On the Farmpunk: Join in!

[gkathellar]

Should we start a separate thread for collecting rules material?

Let's make sure people are on the same page first.

Basic System: E7 or E9? Are we using the standard ability score set, renaming them, or using an altered set? (I have a four-abilities setup sitting around on my hard drive, if the last one.) Any gripes about Saga's ruleset as described in brief here?

Character Generation: How many feats do characters start with? Will there be any kind of species mechanic (representing archetypes, perhaps?) or are we leaving that kind of hassle out?

Character Progression: At what levels do feats and ability score increases come? (Standard 1/4 and 1/3 per level?) At what class levels do characters gain bonus feats (every even level?), talents (1 per level or 1 every odd level?) and talent improvements (whenever a talent is gained or at every odd level)?

Skillset: Fine as presented? Compress skills into Perception and Sneak? Add Gambling? Add anything else?

Feats: Scaling feats? Non-scaling feats? How interesting/boring are feats? Do they add new abilities, or just bonuses?

Talents: Any closing comments on the talent system? Any comments/objections on this super-preliminary talent tree outline?

Equipment: Are we collectively decided on fancy/robust/primitive for tech and wild/folk/subtle for magic items?

(Oh, and grain is totally a fruit. It's the seed of a grass.)

Nope. Fruit is kind of an ambiguous term, but all grains are technically cereals.

[AugustNights]

Death row is part of the law, and the law? The law is a human institution
The Administration deals with Hobos straight.

[ThirdEmperor]

This..... Is beautiful *cries a little*.

Also, Hobo's need to be able to create Boot-liquor and mulligan stew as a class ability. Boot liquor grants strength bonus, stew restores health over time. I could see Hobo's becoming a alchemist style class, creating various brews using junk and scraps.

[Science Officer]

On the subject of skills, I'd split Mechanics into
Mechanics (Fancy)
Mechanics (Robust)
Mechanics (Primitive)

To help with distinguish engineers and farmers, for example.

Also: what's this?
Mountain Men talent trees?
You don't say!

I was going to copy some Scout and Soldier talents from SWSE, but they're ... very bland. Half the talents are either re-roll a specific skill check and keep the better result, or re-roll and take the second.

More things: reading a bit on Prohibition. There are some good words.
In addition to rum-runners, you had moonshine-runners or 'shine-runners.
Revenue agents checking in one folks were "revenooers".

"...[grape] juice was commonly sold as "bricks or blocks of Rhine Wine," "blocks of port," and so on along with a warning: "After dissolving the brick in a gallon of water, do not place the liquid in a jug away in the cupboard for twenty days, because then it would turn into wine."..."

Also, and this works really with the "drunks can see the Administration entities", chemicals were added to industrial alcohol in order to denature it, making it undrinkable. Of course, people still tried to drink it. One of the effects of drinking denatured alcohol? Blindness.



Edit:
Basic System: I like Saga's ruleset. I'd prefer using the regular attributes, as well as their names, if only for readability.
As for E7 or E9, ehhh, I'd design for E10 and if anyone ever actually played a game in this setting they could set their own cap.

Character Generation: I'd say no species. All classes get Proficiency (simple weapons), Proficiency (some other type of common weapon), and one other starting feat, suited to the class. Combat-focused classes may get one or two extra weapon proficiency feats.

Character Progression: All characters get a bonus feat at level one, level three, and every three levels after that. Characters get ability increases at level four and every forth level after that. Not sure about class-given bonus feats.

I'd say a new talent every level, and a talent upgrade (to master level, etc... w/e) every second level. This gives characters a significant bag of tricks, while still letting them specialise. (So every cowpoke can do the same sort of things, just some are better at some of them than others. that's clear as mud. )

Skillset: Fine, can't think of anything more than I mentioned.

Feats: I think feats work well, the way they work in D&D, SWSE.
some give straight up bonuses to certain things, some make you exempt from otherwise universal penalties, some, especially those with pre-requisites, give you new abilities (i.e. Spring Attack, Bull Rush) or are like mini-class features (Tech Specialist, Enhanced Tech in SWSE, also in SWSE, the Sneak Attack feats)

Talents: nothing wrong so far.

Equipment: fancy/robust/primitive is great.
I think magic items would be better handled on a per-case basis, but wild/folk/subtle is a good guideline, at the very least. I have nothing against it.

[Eldan]

Woah. Good thing they don't add the hard stuff to pure alcohol anymore...

[cheezewizz2000]

Monster II - The Jackalope

[Eldan]

Basic System: E7 or E9? Are we using the standard ability score set, renaming them, or using an altered set? (I have a four-abilities setup sitting around on my hard drive, if the last one.) Any gripes about Saga's ruleset as described in brief here?

Either 7 or 9 works, really. I also only said an odd number since I assumed we were going with one talent every odd level, and wanted to end on a talent.
I'd stay with standard abilities, really. Unless it adds something, stay with standard d20.
Generally okay, but I don't get why you add your level to damage. Just so you deal more damage because HP are higher? Meh.
Also, I don't like static defences much... generally, letting the player roll seems better.
I especially dislike static skills and much prefer skill points.

Character Generation: How many feats do characters start with? Will there be any kind of species mechanic (representing archetypes, perhaps?) or are we leaving that kind of hassle out?

I wouldn't do race mechanics. Perhaps backgrounds, like in d20modern/future? (I.e. Veteran (gain 1 weapon proficiency), Farmboy (gain handle animal and one other bonus skill) and so on).
As for feats, I assumed we'd do the normal two.

Character Progression: At what levels do feats and ability score increases come? (Standard 1/4 and 1/3 per level?) At what class levels do characters gain bonus feats (every even level?), talents (1 per level or 1 every odd level?) and talent improvements (whenever a talent is gained or at every odd level)?

Well, I'm all for more class abilities, so one talent per level seems fine. Ability score increases: well, if we do E7, we should probably go with 1 every 3 levels, otherwise, it won't do much. Every 4 for E9.

Skillset: Fine as presented? Compress skills into Perception and Sneak? Add Gambling? Add anything else?

I'm fine either way.

Feats: Scaling feats? Non-scaling feats? How interesting/boring are feats? Do they add new abilities, or just bonuses?

Feats should add new things. Numerical bonuses are boring. They can come along with something else, but as long as you have some feats with abilities and some with bonuses, the first kind will always be more interesting.

Talents: Any closing comments on the talent system? Any comments/objections on this super-preliminary talent tree outline?

Well. Here's a thing: we already have the suggestion of talents that can bev upgraded. How does that mesh with talent trees? I mean, if you have higher level talents, and talents that have several level, that is kinda the same thing already. We should probably decide on one of the two.

Equipment: Are we collectively decided on fancy/robust/primitive for tech and wild/folk/subtle for magic items?

Aye.

[gkathellar]

Parsing responses.

Basic System: I like Saga's ruleset. I'd prefer using the regular attributes, as well as their names, if only for readability.
As for E7 or E9, ehhh, I'd design for E10 and if anyone ever actually played a game in this setting they could set their own cap.

Either 7 or 9 works, really. I also only said an odd number since I assumed we were going with one talent every odd level, and wanted to end on a talent.
I'd stay with standard abilities, really. Unless it adds something, stay with standard d20.
Generally okay, but I don't get why you add your level to damage. Just so you deal more damage because HP are higher? Meh.
Also, I don't like static defences much... generally, letting the player roll seems better.

E6-10, then? As in, assume 6 as a default and provide rules for scaling up to tenth level before hitting epic (which would frankly amount to saying "you gain more than six levels, woo")?

Clarity and accessibility is a convincing argument to use standard attributes.

Only half your level to damage. It's meant to reflect the fact that you get to be objectively better at fighting as you increase in skill, and part of fighting is dealing damage.

Static defenses are functionally ... wait, was that a suggestion that players should roll all the dice? I'm not opposed to that, if that's what you meant.

Character Generation: I'd say no species. All classes get Proficiency (simple weapons), Proficiency (some other type of common weapon), and one other starting feat, suited to the class. Combat-focused classes may get one or two extra weapon proficiency feats.

I wouldn't do race mechanics. Perhaps backgrounds, like in d20modern/future? (I.e. Veteran (gain 1 weapon proficiency), Farmboy (gain handle animal and one other bonus skill) and so on).
As for feats, I assumed we'd do the normal two.

Cool. No species mechanics. Maybe background mechanics, but no reason to make a call on that just yet unless someone feels very passionate about it. Start with two chosen feats, one class-specific feat, plus proficiencies.

Character Progression: All characters get a bonus feat at level one, level three, and every three levels after that. Characters get ability increases at level four and every forth level after that. Not sure about class-given bonus feats.

Ability score increases: well, if we do E7, we should probably go with 1 every 3 levels, otherwise, it won't do much. Every 4 for E9.

I guess this is dependent on what we decide as far as E(x). Putting it on the back-burner.

I'd say a new talent every level, and a talent upgrade (to master level, etc... w/e) every second level. This gives characters a significant bag of tricks, while still letting them specialise. (So every cowpoke can do the same sort of things, just some are better at some of them than others. that's clear as mud. )

Well, I'm all for more class abilities, so one talent per level seems fine.

One talent per level, one talent improvement every second level, then? Maybe a feat at each level you don't gain a talent improvement.

(Snipped from above:) I especially dislike static skills and much prefer skill points.

Skill list is fine then.

I'm personally a fan of static skills (it's elegant design), but my perception is that a lot more people hate them than like them, so it makes sense to go with skill points.

Feats: I think feats work well, the way they work in D&D, SWSE.
some give straight up bonuses to certain things, some make you exempt from otherwise universal penalties, some, especially those with pre-requisites, give you new abilities (i.e. Spring Attack, Bull Rush) or are like mini-class features (Tech Specialist, Enhanced Tech in SWSE, also in SWSE, the Sneak Attack feats)

Feats should add new things. Numerical bonuses are boring. They can come along with something else, but as long as you have some feats with abilities and some with bonuses, the first kind will always be more interesting.

Alright, it sound like feats chiefly present new abilities, sometimes coupled with numerical bonuses.

Talents: nothing wrong so far.

Well. Here's a thing: we already have the suggestion of talents that can bev upgraded. How does that mesh with talent trees? I mean, if you have higher level talents, and talents that have several level, that is kinda the same thing already. We should probably decide on one of the two.

Trees might be the wrong word. Families would probably be better - a set of talent that deal with a related theme.

Equipment: fancy/robust/primitive is great.
I think magic items would be better handled on a per-case basis, but wild/folk/subtle is a good guideline, at the very least. I have nothing against it.

Aye.

Equipment is fine then.

[cheezewizz2000]

Hobilities

A collection of abilities for the Hobo. Or vagrant, but hobo seems to have stuck. All of these only work if the hobo has had a shot of moonshine that day (unless otherwise noted)

The Willies (Su)
Basic: The hobo can detect the presence of people who work for the guv'ment or the administration as a free action within a 10' radius. He may not tell direction, number, or power. It feels like he just got sober all of a sudden. Creepy.

Improved: The hobo can give a good hiding to members of the guv'ment or the administration. He adds his spunk (charisma) bonus to attack rolls and his hobo level to damage. He may do this a number of times per day equal to his hobo level + his spunk bonus.

Master: The hobo can now detect exactly who works for the guv'ment or the administration as a free action within a 20' cone. Any critical hits he rolls against them automatically confirm.

The Jibblies (Su)
Basic: The hobo can detect the presence of creatures from the wild within a 10' radius. He may not tell direction, number, or power. It feels like he just got a little more drunk.

Improved: The hobo can give a good hiding to creatures from the wild. He adds his spunk (charisma) bonus to attack rolls and his hobo level to damage. He may do this a number of times per day equal to his hobo level + his spunk bonus.

Master: The hobo can now detect exactly where creatures from the wild are as a free action within a 50' cone. He may re-roll a missed attack against them once/round.

That's my train (Ex)
Basic: The hobo can utter the words "that's my train". A train will conviently pull up at the nearest station within the next ten minutes. The hobo will only make it in the nick of time and will have to run along side it to get on it, requiring a DC 13 tumble check. Guards are likely to try to stop him if they see him. If he is at a station with no train, there will conviently have always been one there that he didn't spot.

Improved: When the hobo says "that's my train", the train that pulls up to the nearest station will need to fill its water tank. The hobo will make it in enough time to get on comfortably before it pulls away. Guards are still likely to stop him if they spot him.

Master: When the hobo says "that's my train", the train that pulls up to the nearest station needs to fill its water tanks. The station guards are drunk, and the guards on the train are too tired to check the cargo carriages.

Moonshine on you crazy diamond... (Su)
Basic: A hobo can create moonshine so long as he has something to keep it in (tin cup, tin can, glass, cupped hands etc), a piece of an edible* plant, clean-ish water, his own spit and an item of his own used and never been washed clothing. The process takes a number of nights equal to 8 minus his hobo level, to a minimum of 1 and requires a craft (distilation) check of DC 15, or DC 25 for "good stuff". This creates ~8 shots of moonshine.
*Edible - an old hobo term for anything not immediately toxic or poisonous.

Intermediate: The hobo can ignore the penalties of drinking moonshine to a maximum of his level-1, or half his hobo level, which ever is higher. The hobo can substitute anything identifiably organic and solid (leather, paper, beef, leaves) for the edible plant material when making moonshine. If the hobo does have edible plant material, then the DC to make "good stuff" is reduced to 20.

Master: The hobo "just happens to have" a nearly empty glass bottle of standard moonshine on him at all times, even if he has no other equipment on him. If he is searched, this moonshine cannot be found by any means, however retrieving it is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. The bottle contains 2 shots of moonshine. The hobo can use this ability 1/day.

This is where I get off (Su)
Basic: As a free action the hobo may halve the speed of any train he is on in order to make it safer for him to leap off while it is still moving. The train's speed slows down by 10' every round until it reaches half its base speed.

Improved: As a free action the hobo can double the maximum speed of any train he is on to make it arrive at its destination quicker. This plays havoc with the timetables. The train gains 10' of speed per round until it reaches twice its base speed

Master: As a free action the hobo can bring a train that he is currently on to a complete stop, or quadruple its speed. A train that is brought to a stop while moving loses 20' of speed per round, and continues to move forward while it is slowing down. The hobo can speed a train up by 20' every round until it reaches four times its base speed.

What'chu bin eatin? (Ex)
Basic: As a standard action, the hobo may belch in an opponent's face. The opponent must make a fortitude save equal to 10+1/2 hobo level+hobo's charisma modifier or become dazed for one round.

Intermediate: The hobo exudes a nasty stench that makes people around him feel ill. People within 10' of the hobo must make a fortitude save each round equal to 10+1/2 hobo level+hobo's charisma modifier or become nauseated for that round. The hobo may turn this on or off as a free action.

Master: The hobo's belch becomes even more potent. The opponent becomes stunned instead of dazed.

This here's mah best friend (Ex)
Basic: The hobo gains a faithful hound companion. This dog is a standard dog in all ways (though it looks a little scruffy, it's eyes are two different colours and always has one ear hanging down), and knows 3 tricks. While the hobo does not have to have had moonshine for the dog to stay around, the dog does. If the dog is not given a shot of moonshine every day, it will wander off to find a hobo that will treat it better. If the dog dies, the hobo must find a new one and persuade it to join him with a shot of moonshine and a DC 15 handle animal check. The dog shares bonuses and penalties with the hobo.

Improved: The hobo's dog gains 2 bonus HD, gets +1 natural armour, a +1 bonus to strength, dex and int and gains evasion. The dog also learns one more trick.

Master: The hobo's dog gains 2 more bonus HD, increases its natural armour by +1, another +1 bonus to strength and dex and gets a +2 bonus to int, and gets a +4 bonus to will saves against fear and mind-affecting effects. The dog also learns one more trick.

He was just here a second ago (Su)
Basic: When in sight of by anyone working for the guv'ment or the administration, the hobo gains +10' to his base land speed.

Intermediate: The hobo can blend in with crowds and gains a +4 bonus to hide checks when surrounded by people.

Master: If the hobo dives into a barrell, crate, box or similarly sized container while in sight of anyone who works for the guv'ment or the administration, he can "accidentaly find himself" in another one within 50'. Doing this makes the hobo's head hurt, and when he makes this move he is dazed for one round.

[Eldan]

If we want Hobos as a kind of Paladin/guard of the rails, the borders between districts and the universal balance of the range, they need an ability to ward of creatures from both sides, not just detect them.

[cheezewizz2000]

If we want Hobos as a kind of Paladin/guard of the rails, the borders between districts and the universal balance of the range, they need an ability to ward of creatures from both sides, not just detect them.

Perhaps a "the willies" equivalent for creatures from the wild? Essentially the same, just works against those instead. A wild-alternative for "he was just here a second ago" would be nice too, but I can't think of one right now.

[Eldan]

No, I rather think he needs a kind of specific defence against them. Giving them a good trashing is nice, yes, but that's offence. He has mobility, offence, utility, but no defences.

Of course, he could just have the knowledge and know how to defeat them. Salt and iron on wild monsters, moonshine and silver on urban ones. Burn the bodies.

[cheezewizz2000]

No, I rather think he needs a kind of specific defence against them. Giving them a good trashing is nice, yes, but that's offence. He has mobility, offence, utility, but no defences.

Of course, he could just have the knowledge and know how to defeat them. Salt and iron on wild monsters, moonshine and silver on urban ones. Burn the bodies.

Hmm. Defensive talents against them would be good, or would you prefer those to be folded into the jibblies and willies tree? I can't think of anything at the moment. Perhaps something like a hold-monster effect if they get attacked? My imagination is failing me at the moment as it's about 2 hours past my usual bedtime... Lol...

[Strudel110]

Once rules are decided upon I would like to request that someone(s) compile the rules together into a PDF rulebook. I would be happy to aid by providing sketches of characters and items (like the ones usually seen within gamebooks) to make the pdf book more interesting to the eyes. It may be a bit premature but here is my Deviantart account the fantasy pieces in my gallery tend to be of a higher quality than the random comics or themeless sketches. Rules-wise I like E9 and vitality/wound system, the magic/technology system rocks. The gangster could have one skill set focusing on guns rather than brawling; it should focus more on drive bys and ambushes than straight gun duels ala gunmen. I agree with hobos being a prestige class of sorts, and we should definitely incorporate some of those folklore critters into the wilds and even have them encroach on farmers lands occasionally (el chupacabras anyone).

[Shyftir]

Three suggestions/bit of input:

1)
Generally in an E6-type environment stat bonuses are a Feat choice, that would allow us to play with where we want stat increases.

2)
Another thing, We want heroes to resemble folklore/fakelore heroes. To make that happen I think that starting ability scores should be skewed higher on purpose.

Like for rolled stats:
4d8 best 3,
or
4d4 best 3 + 10.

and for point-buy:
All stats start at 12, then normal rules
or
Stats start at 8 but cost per +1 doesn't go up as quickly.

3)
We might go with a defensive bonus based on class due to the general armor-less aspect of the setting.

[Science Officer]

I don't think the PCs are quite folk heros.
This is a setting drawn from a mash-up of American folklore and some of its history.

The PCs might be private investigators, cowboys, frontiersmen, farmers, engineers, preachers, or outlaws. I don't think the PCs will be Paul Bunyan, Pecos Bill or Joe Mufferaw.

[ThirdEmperor]

Hey, is this project 3.5e or 4e?

[Eldan]

General d20, really. Currently drawing more from Saga and d20 modern than D&D proper.

[dsmiles]

Seeing as how this is going to be almost entirely homebrew, I think a proper balance should be considered. No world-ruling wizards/no inept fighters. I'm not exactly sure how the E7-E10 system works, but in terms of DnD "tiers" ( as much as I hate using "tiers" and "builds" to describe characters) I think all the archetypes should fall within tier 3. Useful, but not brokenly world-destroying.

[AugustNights]

I'm sure we'll think of more skills as we go, but for now the skill list seems fine.

I'd prefer a lower EX than a higher one. Players want to be legends sooner, and I feel this game is going to be less of an arms race and more of a story heavy sort of thing.

I vote talents at every level.

I see no problem with players being Paul Bunion, or who ever. If they want to limit themselves that way. It would be more interesting to be their own legend. (But cameos might be cool.)

I love Backgrounds ideas.

That's this Chump's two Ha'pennies.

[Eldan]

So, after Barnum came up in the Jackalope thread, I started thinking, and came up with an item.

Doctor Jeremy Sandford's Energizing Miracle Tonic!*

Yes, Ladies and Gentlemen! Step forward, step forward! Do you suffer from ingrown toenails? A nasty cough? Hysteria? Do you often feel tired in the morning, and exhausted in the evening? Do you find, dear gentlemen, that your little fellow has problems performing all his duties with due vigor? Do not despair, try Doctor Jeremy Sandford's Energizing Miracle Tonic today!
Doctor Jeremy Sandford's Energizing Miracle tonic cleans rust, dirt, mold and clogged pipes! Give it to your sheep! Give it to your horses! Give it to your mother-in-law, if you have to!
Now I need a volunteer! Yes, you, you Sir, the Gentleman in the first row who does not at all look like my brother! Come up here, come on, come on!
What do you suffer from? The palsy and hair loss! Oh, cheer up, cheer up! Drink this tonic here, free on the house, that's right, free on the house!
And now look, Ladies and Gentlemen, how he no longer suffers from his symptoms! He has stopped shaking, yes, I'd say that he now profits from a +2 morale bonus on all, I repeat, all, rolls for at least an hour!
Buy my tonic today! Only three dollars a bottle! And, because I like this delightful town so much, you get one free teaspoon with every bottle!

*Ingredients may include, but are not limited to, grain alcohol, tonic water, grape sugar, grape juice, caramel, brandy, vinegar, petroleum, sulphuric acid, 11 secret herbs and spices, the extract of the coca plant, jalapeno peppers, dead slugs and worcester sauce.

[AugustNights]

So, after Barnum came up in the Jackalope thread, I started thinking, and came up with an item.

Doctor Jeremy Sandford's Energizing Miracle Tonic!*

Yes, Ladies and Gentlemen! Step forward, step forward! Do you suffer from ingrown toenails? A nasty cough? Hysteria? Do you often feel tired in the morning, and exhausted in the evening? Do you find, dear gentlemen, that your little fellow has problems performing all his duties with due vigor? Do not despair, try Doctor Jeremy Sandford's Energizing Miracle Tonic today!
Doctor Jeremy Sandford's Energizing Miracle tonic cleans rust, dirt, mold and clogged pipes! Give it to your sheep! Give it to your horses! Give it to your mother-in-law, if you have to!
Now I need a volunteer! Yes, you, you Sir, the Gentleman in the first row who does not at all look like my brother! Come up here, come on, come on!
What do you suffer from? The palsy and hair loss! Oh, cheer up, cheer up! Drink this tonic here, free on the house, that's right, free on the house!
And now look, Ladies and Gentlemen, how he no longer suffers from his symptoms! He has stopped shaking, yes, I'd say that he now profits from a +2 morale bonus on all, I repeat, all, rolls for at least an hour!
Buy my tonic today! Only three dollars a bottle! And, because I like this delightful town so much, you get one free teaspoon with every bottle!

*Ingredients may include, but are not limited to, grain alcohol, tonic water, grape sugar, grape juice, caramel, brandy, vinegar, petroleum, sulphuric acid, 11 secret herbs and spices, the extract of the coca plant, jalapeno peppers, dead slugs and worcester sauce.

Smells like urine.
Looks like urine.
This is urine.
Urine with ink.

I just realized... with the whole 'Creepy Circus' train of thought... we have Poe... A Great American Author... I vote for there to be a Robust/Folk area that is basically his. Not the man's, but in his style.
With Dr. Tarr and Prof. Fether, with the House of Usher, with all that fun stuff.

[Eldan]

Smells like urine.
Looks like urine.
This is urine.
Urine with ink.

Ah, but!
Does it still provide a +2 morale bonus and cure all your ills, Sir? Can you afford not to find out? Does medicine have to smell good? Find out today, with Dr. Jeremy Sanderson's Miracle tonic!

[cheezewizz2000]

Trains, and the leaping off of them.

[ThirdEmperor]

I think we need more than one kind of Hobo, as they really seem to be the games focus right now. Perhaps rail-riders hobos and footwalker hobos? Footwalkers focus on trackin down the guv'ment, keeping it out o the towns, rail-riders, well, ride the rails and keep the wild things back?

[Eldan]

I'd say that would just be different talent trees.

[cheezewizz2000]

I think we need more than one kind of Hobo, as they really seem to be the games focus right now. Perhaps rail-riders hobos and footwalker hobos? Footwalkers focus on trackin down the guv'ment, keeping it out o the towns, rail-riders, well, ride the rails and keep the wild things back?

They're the game's focus right now because they're the class that is being focused on. I think I'm about the only one who's really been focusing on its mechanical aspects, save for a few ideas for talents being thrown around, and ideas about the hobo have led to ideas about the world and how that should work. C.f. my posts on booze and how jumping off trains should work. That's fine, the other guys have been focusing in on the nitty gritty basic mechanics like "how many talents do classes get?" and "what's our level cap?". All of this is needed, and worthwhile.

There are two ways to remedy this percieved focus:
1) Come up with a few more ideas for talents/change talents I've already thrown out there. This can only improve the hobo and having it created by one (not very good) homebrewer will leave it with all kinds of problems. It doesn't even have BAB, HD or saves yet. How many skill points does it get? What skills? Actually, this will just make the focus problem worse, but at least the hobo class will improve and perhaps then we have a ballance point.

2) Find an archetype that peaks your interest and get some talents out there. I quite like this "basic, intermediate, master" progression, so that's what I've been basing mine on. Try to steer clear of simple numerical bonuses as they're boring. Go on, give the gangster some love. Gkathellar has a great post with some ideas for what each class should be able to do and that can be found here.

[AugustNights]

I aslo like the basic, intermediate, master" progression.
I vote we stick to that as much as we can.

[Eldan]

I think I'll start with the Stranger. I have already written up some ideas for it, I'll get down and do it later, probably in it's own thread.

[gkathellar]

I've added a couple of ideas to the list if it's helpful to anyone.

It looks like this is what we've got so far, unless anyone objects (indentations under list points are meant to be simple and informative for anyone just looking at the thread now):

• Basic Ruleset: D20, Saga-based, E6-10, Vitality Points (w/out insta-death by critical)
  
  This means people will roll d20s and have six ability scores, that we will be using certain elements of Star Wars Saga Edition's rules but not others, that characters will progress to somewhere between 6th and 10th level before capping out and progressing only through feats and talents, and that characters will have vitality and wound points but weapons will not directly damage wound points on a critical hit.
• Character Generation and Growth: Standard feat progression, 3/6/9 Saga-style ability score progression, Saga defense bonuses.
  
  Characters will gain feats at levels 1, 3, 6 and 9. At levels 3, 6, and 9, a character will choose two of his ability score and improve each by one. A character will receive a bonus to each of his defenses equal to his character level, and a bonus to damage rolls equal to half his level. Beyond this, characters will advance by their classes.
• Character Species: Race/Species, Backgrounds
  
  There will be no race or species mechanics. All characters will be human. However, we will probably implement some sort of system for backgrounds, ala d20 modern/fantasy craft/iron heroes/etc.
• Character Class: Eight classes - Doctor, Gangster, Gunman, Priest, Rascal, Stranger, Vagrant, Wilderness Man. 1 Talent per level.
  
  Each class will receive small defense bonuses and proficiencies at first level, a Base Attack Bonus, vitality/skill points at each level, a Talent at every level, and Talent Improvements and bonus feats at an undecided rate.
• Skills: Will advance via points, as in 3.5 (or possibly as in Pathfinder), with a unique skill list.
  
  That was perfectly clear, you mad fool!
• Feats: Feats represent general, non class-specific abilities that characters can choose. While some may provide flat numerical bonuses, all will provide some kind of option or ability on top of that.
  
  Ditto.
• Talents: Each class will have a unique talent list. Each talent will have three levels - Basic, Intermediate and Master. A talent will be Basic when it's chosen, and characters will improve talents they already have at even-numbered levels.
  
  Why am I even still doing these indents? Why? WHY?
• Equipment: Magic Items - Wild/Folk/Subtle, Technology - Fancy/Robust/Primitive, weapons each have a Critical Damage.
  
  Some magic items and technology will not function in certain settings. Weapons deal damage as normal have a threat range as normal, but instead of a critical modifier all weapon will have a "Critical Damage," determining the number of wound points of damage they deal on a critical hit in addition to their normal vitality damage.

Standing questions (will add to this list if people raise things):

• Defenses: Rolled or Static?
  
  And if they're rolled, do we mean that in a "players roll all the dice" way?