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  1. - Top - End - #661
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Doesn't the Vindicators need Devoted Spirit? Which Warblade doesn't get access to.
    Crap, you're right. Never mind, wrong class.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
    Hmm. That's true; free rerolls are rare and useful. All right, then Blue without buyoff and Cyan with.
    I hope we're not considering the bonus to Chaos spell CL a boost, as it affects next to nothing unless you're a Cleric with the Chaos domain, as that's basically the only source of spells with that subtag. Every other spell you can think of that should potentially have it, doesn't. The only way I can think of to make it useful is via Planar Wizard substitution levels or something equally obscure, none of which is relevant to Warblades.

    No. They have a +3 LA; you can't even buy off the first point of LA until level 9. I think you're overestimating the usefulness of buyoff and their abilities; it just isn't worth the +3 LA, even with buyoff.
    Quote Originally Posted by TravelLog View Post
    Forgot about this one. I had forgotten about waiting until level 9.
    Which is effectively ECL 12, which is late enough that it may never come up, the way campaigns go. Then you're stuck with the other 2 points of LA till ECL 17 and 19, which is basically epic by that point, so you're always behind till the end of your career. As has been pointed already, LA doesn't help your IL like RHD does, so I don't think it's really worthwhile unless you really like Svirfneblin or you're starting close to epic levels, anyways, when it's already bought off.

    EDIT: Wait, we're saying no, Svirf is bad already. Let me back away from the dead horse, now...
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2011-11-13 at 06:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    I hope we're not considering the bonus to Chaos spell CL a boost, as it affects next to nothing unless you're a Cleric with the Chaos domain, as that's basically the only source of spells with that subtag. Every other spell you can think of that should potentially have it, doesn't. The only way I can think of to make it useful is via Planar Wizard substitution levels or something equally obscure, none of which is relevant to Warblades.
    No, of course we aren't; Warblades don't qualify for RKV anyway.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    I think it might be good to list the source of the races... some of them look nice but I sure as hell don't know the source for them (Sharakim for example) at a first glance.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    I think it might be good to list the source of the races... some of them look nice but I sure as hell don't know the source for them (Sharakim for example) at a first glance.
    I was bored so...

    Race sources:
    • Aventi - Stormwrack
    • Changeling - Races of Eberron
    • Darfellan - Stormwrack
    • Mongrelfolk - races of destiny
    • Neanderthal - frostburn
    • Orc - SRD
    • Raptoran - races of the wild
    • Shifter - races of eberron
    • Skarn - magic of incarnum
    • Warforged - races of eberron
    • badlands dwarf - sandstorm
    • deep dwarf - MM
    • earth dwarf - srd/UA
    • painted elf - sandstorm
    • snow elf - frostburn
    • chaos gnome - races of stone
    • whisper gnome - races of stone
    • strongheart halfling - FR
    • aquatic/arctic/desert half-elf - SRD/UA
    • aquatic half-orc - srd/UA
    • jungle half-orc - srd/UA
    • scablands half-orc - sandstorm
    • aquatic orc - srd/UA
    • desert orc - srd/UA
    • water orc - srd/UA


    +1 LA:
    • Half-giant - SRD/XPH
    • Goliath - races of stone
    • Sharakim - races of destiny
    • Thri-kreen - psionic (xph/srd), non-psionic (MM2)


    +2 LA:
    • Half-Ogre - races of destiny


    sidenote: it might be worth mentioning the hobgoblin. They aren't amazing, but ToB gives a lot of fluff for them being the founders/strong practitioners of the Iron Heart style. Even if only to mention that they probably make better swordsages...

    A few additional notes on multiclassing:
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    In general, you want to keep in mind two ideas when multiclassing:
    • The number '6' - take more than this many levels that don't directly boost your warblade IL and you lose access to 9th level maneuvers.
    • Even numbers - your IL increases with every even-numbered level in non-warblade boosting classes.


    I've found some of the following to be useful:

    Monk:
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    A two level monk dip gets you 3 bonus feats, and with the UA variants, two of these could be just about any applicable feats to your build. I'm partial to the "overwhelming attack" line, particularly when I'm building a warblade who has powerful build or large size, but just about any warblade could make good use of Power Attack and Improved Bull Rush.

    Notably, this also nabs you evasion, and if you're planning on using a mithril breastplate or lighter, this combines saucily with your 'action before thought' diamond mind maneuver.

    The bonuses to base saves are also nothing to sneeze at.

    It's also possible to get value out of monk 1 or monk 6, but I find neither of these to be as compelling as monk 2.


    Fighter:
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    This is a great one, because depending on your build, fighter 1, 2, 4 or 6 can all appropriate jump-offs.

    Fighter 1 gets you heavy armor, as well as all shields, and all of the usual ranged weapons. This is certainly worth considering. Fighter 2 and 6 have dungeoncrasher ACFs which combine VERY well with any large or powerful build race who is planning on doing some bullrushing.

    I find myself proposing fighter 2 to most people, but the fact that you can get value out of fighter 1 + odd number of another useful class to maximize IL is a handy trick.


    Paladin/Hexblade:
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    Almost certainly Pal/Hex 2, but potentially Pal/Hex 4 or Hex 5.

    Hexblade 3 is notably a fast way to get "mettle", an ability that could be very nice combined with your diamond mind save-replacements.

    Both of the 2 level dips gets you cha to saves (situational for hexblade), both of the 4 level dips get you casting, and the pal 4 gets you turning. If your build needs any of them, it's good to know you can get them with full BAB and goodies to reward you if you have a high Cha. But since none of the warblade's class features are keyed off of charisma, this is worth mentioning if it's relevant, but not really worth writing home about to everyone.


    Ranger:
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    Ranger 2 gets free TWF. This is useful if you want to TWF, and you should know that you can probably argue THF+Armor Spikes works with this if you want a way to get another attack.


    OA/Rokugani Samurai:
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    Like the fighter, this guy has jump out points that are both even and odd. Samurai 1 gets Ancestral Daisho, easily worth a feat (Ancestral Relic from BoED), and Samurai 2 gets a bonus feat. It also offers two good saves. Not as flexible as the fighter, but not having to rely on magic item marts to boost your primary weapon is SAUCY.


    Crusader:
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    If you're an AoO build, Crusader 2 can get Thicket of Blades. This alone is worth writing home about.

    The crusader also earns 5 maneuvers known at 1st level. If you want to get some mid-level maneuvers from Devoted Spirit, White Raven, or Stone Dragon, and you've focused yourself into other areas, this can be a good choice. WRT is only 3rd level, and only requires a 1 maneuver pre-req, and the Stone Dragon school has a smattering of maneuvers that have no pre-reqs. If you're an elf who wants to become an Eternal Blade, but is mostly a Warblade, the crusader dip can help you pick up some Devoted Spirit pre-reqs.


    Exotic Weapon Master:
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    Good for no more than 1-level dip, only if you're using a one-handed exotic weapon in two hands. If you are, it's worth taking.

    Just make sure you're OK with taking either exotic weapon proficiency or playing a race, like a dwarf, who gets weapon familiarity with the waraxe.


    Revenant Blade:
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    Want to be a TWF warblade? Strongly consider this option, and take all five levels.

    It's feat intensive, but the capstone is WAY worth it, and you end up netting more feats out than you take in.

    I'll cross reference you to the appropriate handbook for more details.


    Some builds that I've found useful or illustrative:
    • Yes, it's that good. - Warblade 20
    • Crazed Dwarf Axe-wielder - Cleric 1/ Fighter 2/ Warblade 4/ Exotic Weapon Master 1/ Warblade 12
    • Need maneuvers? - Warblade 8/Crusader 2/ Eternal Blade 10
    • For the TWF - Ranger 2/ Fighter 1/Warblade 2/Revenant Blade 5/ Eternal Blade 10 (see Revenant Blade Handbook for details)
    • For a melee combatant with a late-game arcane flair - Duskblade 2/ Paladin 2/ Warblade 2/ Suel Arcanamach 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Warblade 3-6.


  6. - Top - End - #666
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Uh, EoW? Monk evasion doesn't work in any type of armor. It's the thing that makes a feat rogue dip better.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon View Post
    Uh, EoW? Monk evasion doesn't work in any type of armor. It's the thing that makes a feat rogue dip better.
    Monk's Evasion works in light or no armour, just like any Evasion I can think of.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Monk's Evasion works in light or no armour, just like any Evasion I can think of.
    Divine Oracle's Prescient Sense is Evasion in any armor.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    I checked just to be sure that I wasn't going insane

    From the Srd:
    Evasion (Ex)
    At 2nd level or higher if a monk makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a monk is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of evasion.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    I've been working on the magic items, and will have Core (and hopefully MIC) weapon enchantments up by later today. Thanks for the sources, Essence; I'll put those in.
    Last edited by Elfin; 2011-11-16 at 10:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    For the record, I suggest giving special mention to the morphing weapon quality. What it does is simple; transforms a weapon into another weapon of equivalent size. When applied to ammunition, though, it costs a fiftieth of the price, but because almost all ammo is considered a light weapon... well yeah.

    Get an arrow with all the enchantments you like putting on Kukris (and don't require a certain type of weapon, obviously) on it, along with morphing, and then just turn it into a Kukri.

    Now, this is absolutely monstrous levels of cheese, so use caution, but suddenly those characters that wield a pair of light weapons aren't spending so much any more. In a high optimization game where this would actually be readily allowed, it can seriously save your amount of gold.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harnel View Post
    Now, this is absolutely monstrous levels of cheese, so use caution, but suddenly those characters that wield a pair of light weapons aren't spending so much any more. In a high optimization game where this would actually be readily allowed, it can seriously save your amount of gold.
    So...much...gouda...

    Also, still no Flind Gnoll?

    Initial thoughts on enchantments:
    • Magebane: fantastic, lots of things have SLAs, if not spells outright. Even better when combined with Bane. My favorite +1 enchantment, especially for a melee character.
    • Sure Striking: for a +1, great, as it auto-aligns.
    • Banishing: SOO good at higher levels where you are always dealing with outsiders. In a campaign without many outsiders, not worth your time.
    • Holy: in a campaign where you fight evil (read: most campaigns), a great investment in the +2 range
    • Cursespewing: Really expensive at +3, but when paired with Keen, critting is like dealing 4 negative levels. With Kukris, even better! A personal favorite.
    • Roaring: Also expensive at +3, but the DC is pretty high and its sonic damage, the least resisted energy type, so pretty good if you can afford it.


    This may also help: Weapon/Armor enhancement guide
    Last edited by TravelLog; 2011-11-16 at 03:13 AM.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Hello all, I know this question might have been brought up before, so I apologize. I was noticing on the Feat Section of the PHBII feats that it doesnt have the Combat Form Feats. I know the section says only those relevant for the warblade, but I always thought that feat chain wasnt that bad because it gives you a sufficient boost in defenses when you get 3 or more, especially, stability and vigor. Or are they that bad of a feat chain for a warblade? I guess because it makes him kind of MAD with Wisdom?

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    For Weapon Enhancements the Shadow Striking is one of the best +3 IMO, it automatically emulates alignment and materials to bypass DR, a bit pricey at +3; but pretty nice in the long run. It is from Tome of Magic in the Shadow Magic Section.

    And one note for Magebane, it was re-printed and somewhat nerfed on the MIC as now it only works on things that have actual casting and/or can use invocation (I can't think on anything with innate invocations) so I suggest to try to use the the CArc version.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    You should add Gythka and Chatkcha to the weapons section.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    For equipment, I'd recommend having two spoilers- the magic item one you have now, and a general nonmagical equipment spoiler as well. Also, while dividing into DMG and MiC works for those two, for other splats I would recommend just doing one big "other splats" spoiler and citing books in each thing's entry- there are so few useful things from each book that it's just simpler that way.

    For recommendations, I'd mention Shapesand (Sandstorm) and Chaos Flasks (Planar Handbook.) They both can be turned into other nonmagical items with a Wisdom check (DC 16 for Shapesand, 13 for Chaos Flasks). They both cost 100 gp per; there's more Shapesand in one jug than there is chaos per flask, but they're both great buys. Put 'em under nonmagical equipment. Also, I'd recommend +1 Smoking and +1 Warning armor spikes or spiked gauntlets; 8000 GP each. The Smoking one gets you concealment and the Warning one gets you a +5 bonus to Initiative; best of all, you don't even need to actually fight with them so long as you're wielding them, so you can put one on armor spikes and have the other on a spiked gauntlet. At mid to high levels, they're great investments.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
    Put 'em under nonmagical equipment. Also, I'd recommend +1 Smoking and +1 Warning armor spikes or spiked gauntlets; 8000 GP each. The Smoking one gets you concealment and the Warning one gets you a +5 bonus to Initiative; best of all, you don't even need to actually fight with them so long as you're wielding them, so you can put one on armor spikes and have the other on a spiked gauntlet. At mid to high levels, they're great investments.
    You can have 2 spiked or regular gauntlets, so you could pick up a +1 Parrying gauntlet for +1 to AC and saves that stacks with practically every other bonus out there. I tend to do similar on Barbarians so I can get Brash and Furious all the time without eating up space on my weapon. Similarly, if you want more armor slot bonuses, if you can deal with light armor (or mithril medium armor, technically), you can pick up dastana and chahar-aina to provide for armor special distributions.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    You can have 2 spiked or regular gauntlets, so you could pick up a +1 Parrying gauntlet for +1 to AC and saves that stacks with practically every other bonus out there. I tend to do similar on Barbarians so I can get Brash and Furious all the time without eating up space on my weapon. Similarly, if you want more armor slot bonuses, if you can deal with light armor (or mithril medium armor, technically), you can pick up dastana and chahar-aina to provide for armor special distributions.
    Oh, yeah, I forgot about Parrying. That's a great investment at higher levels, but I would recommend getting the other two first as they're more useful- 20% concealment beats out +5 initiative beats out +1 AC and saves.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harnel View Post
    For the record, I suggest giving special mention to the morphing weapon quality. What it does is simple; transforms a weapon into another weapon of equivalent size. When applied to ammunition, though, it costs a fiftieth of the price, but because almost all ammo is considered a light weapon... well yeah.

    Get an arrow with all the enchantments you like putting on Kukris (and don't require a certain type of weapon, obviously) on it, along with morphing, and then just turn it into a Kukri.

    Now, this is absolutely monstrous levels of cheese, so use caution, but suddenly those characters that wield a pair of light weapons aren't spending so much any more. In a high optimization game where this would actually be readily allowed, it can seriously save your amount of gold.
    Arrows are ammunition, not weapons, so I think it'd be a very special set of rules and circumstances for that to fly in an actual game. No doubt folks have gotten it approved in game, but it's a definite YMMV scenario.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Pardon me; I forgot yesterday about finishing the weapons section. The DMG weapon properties are now up. MIC and other sources are the big hurdle, and will follow.

    The bane entry under the DMG isn't including magebane. I'll be giving that its own mention under CArc in the list of magic items from non-DMG or -MIC sources.

    Defending is blank, because I have a feeling that it has a use (or uses) I'm forgetting. Can anyone help me out there?

    Also: titles for the Magic Items section. I have a couple ideas, but they're all awful; can anyone brainstorm anything? The title just needs to include the word "sword".

    Harnel - that sounds ideal for Tips and Tricks, which is where I think cheesy tricks best fit. I'll profile it for when that section is being done.

    Flind gnoll, right. Forgot about that (again). Adding them now.
    Last edited by Elfin; 2011-11-16 at 10:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Magic Item section - Sword Magic? The Sharpest Sword? Swords of Legend?
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfin View Post
    The bane entry under the DMG isn't including magebane. I'll be giving that its own mention under CArc in the list of magic items from non-DMG or -MIC sources.
    Don't forget to mention that it's technically replaced by the MIC version.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Magic Items section: Enhancements of the Sword (real basic), Powers of the Sword, Strengths of the Sword, Abilities of the Sword, or Might of the Sword. Just the top of my head lol

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Thought I had asked about this in the past, but apparently not.

    I see that you find Exotic Weapon Proficiency worth it to pick up something like a Spiked Chain. How about picking up Education, I think its Eberron, to get yourself the great versatility of Knowledge Devotion? I know its two feats, but a free +5 attack/damage is pretty good.

    Plus, its not like you don't have the skill points. You get 4+Int on a semi-Int based class, should be able to pick up all the relevant knowledges fairly easily and still be able to max out Concentration for Diamond Mind. A bit harder if you go with Tiger Claw though.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Arrows are ammunition, not weapons, so I think it'd be a very special set of rules and circumstances for that to fly in an actual game. No doubt folks have gotten it approved in game, but it's a definite YMMV scenario.
    Right, but you can use them as a dagger at a -4 penalty, which counts as a light weapon, neatly evading that problem. unfortunately, that means it doesn't really work with any weapons besides arrows and bolts, but still.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Some notes to consider...

    Core Races:

    Under Halfling, Shadow Blade does not *replace* Str with Dex, it adds to it. Text trumps table.

    Nitpick: Orc is a "Core" race, as most definitions of Core include PHB, DMG, and MM.

    Not-So-Core Races:

    Azurin (Magic of Faerun): Still gets a bonus feat for being human, and the 1 essentia is useful if you plan on grabbing something like Sphyx Claws (pounce with natural weapons) or Thunderstep Boots (save vs. stun on charges) via the Shape Soulmeld feat or an Incarnate/Totemist dip. Totemist/Warblades can lean heavily towards the crap-your-pants side of scary.

    Hadozee (Stormwrack): +2 Dex/-2 Cha, gain Dodge as a bonus feat (check Stormwrack p. 151!), which can be useful to qualify for Master of Nine.

    Neraph (Planar Handbook): Native outsider, so another good way to add martial proficiency with all ranged weapons. The NA +2 and +5 racial bonus on Jump Checks (hello Tiger Claw!) aren't too shabby, either.

    Savage Progression Tiefling and Lesser Tiefling (PGtF). The Savage Progression version is +2 Dex/-2 Cha, but as an outsider you have proficiency with all martial weapons, including ranged. The Lesser Tiefling is not an outsider (but can possibly be made so via the Otherworldly feat) but gets +2 Dex/+2 Int/-2 Cha, which is perfect for TWF Warblades.

    I suppose you can add the plain ol' vanilla Tiefling to LA +1 races as well.

    The other Lesser Planetouched could probably be skipped, except for Lesser Air Genasi, which make excellent Warblades: +2 Dex/+2 Int/-2 Wis/-2 Cha.

    Savage Progression Drow: +2 Dex/+2 Int/-2 Con. Another good TWF-friendly race, although the Con penalty stings a bit. There are also some racial options that might be interesting for a Warblade: Drow Skirmisher (Secrets of Xen'drik), Drow Hit & Run Fighter ACF (DotU).

    Racial Variants:

    Silverbrow Human (Dragon Magic): Human bonus feat + Dragonblood subtype. This is usually the default race for Bardblades (Bard 4/Warblade 16 + Song of the White Raven).

    Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc (Dragon Magic): You mention Endurance being useful for Desert Orcs. Well, these guys get Endurance, too, along with an interesting clause that lets you get another bonus feat later if you pick up Endurance somewhere else. Very useful if you're dipping into Ranger for 3 levels, after which you can add Dragonborn of Bahumat to ditch Endurance but keep your bonus feat, and possibly trade Track for the Dragon Wings or Dragon Tail feat.

    It might be worth adding Desert Kobolds (RotD/UA). They're one of the few LA +0 races that gets three natural attacks, which makes them an excellent pick for an unarmed strike + natural attack style Warblade.

    +1 Level Adjustment:

    Poison Dusk Lizardfolk (MM3): +2 Dex/+2 Con/-2 Cha, claw/claw/bite, +4 racial bonus on Balance/Jump/Swim checks, and poison use.

    Templates:

    No Mineral Warrior?!? (FR Underdark).

    Also, Lolth-Touched (MMIV) is fantastic for Warblades. Admittedly, probably broken, but still fantastic.

  27. - Top - End - #687
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Nice description under Vorpal.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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  28. - Top - End - #688
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by TravelLog View Post
    Yeah, that's true, but you might simply note that if their DM okays it, feral is fantastic. And shadow is very build dependent. Most warblades wouldn't mesh with it (usually better for swordsages), but it does work with some more hit-and-run, mobility-oriented builds.
    Bit late on this one, but I have to disagree.

    Shadow can give Fast Healing 2 which any Warblade will love. A source of Evasion. Mirror Image. Damage Reduction. Any Warblade would love that stuff. I say it meshes fairly well. Even the movement speed boost will be loved by the Warblade.


    Edit:

    Also, definitely approve of Lolth-Touched and Mineral Warrior. Its hard to find two better +1 LAs.

    Also, if you can meet its requirements, Saint is always amazing.
    Last edited by Suichimo; 2011-11-20 at 01:51 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #689
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Regarding the Races section:

    I recommend upgrading Warforged to cyan. For one thing, they can get Adamatine Body, which consumes a feat slot but allows them to have heavy armor which they need not be proficient with. There's also Mithral Body, which is very sexy for reach builds.
    Another is that they get a natural Slam attack which works well with reach builds. Very, very good.


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  30. - Top - End - #690
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Awesome, but in the weapon section I sorely missed the quarterstaff.
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