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  1. - Top - End - #751
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Registered just to say how useful and awesome this handbook is. It's been a major help in building my warforged warblade.

    Also, I think it may be useful to throw the bonus feats in a small list of their own.
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    PHB
    Acrobatic, Agile, Athletic
    Blind-Fight
    Combat Reflexes
    Diehard
    Endurance
    Great Fortitude
    Improved Initiative
    Iron Will
    Lightning Reflexes
    Quick Draw
    Run


    ToB
    Blade Meditation
    Ironheart Aura
    Stone Power
    Tiger Blooded
    Unnerving Clam
    White Raven Defense


    Or maybe just throw a (Bonus Feat) next to them in their feat entry, which would be the less obtrusive option.
    Last edited by Atentora; 2012-01-16 at 06:23 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #752
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Bastard sword's description has the stuff about EWM all messed up. The Uncanny Blow allows you to

    a) Get 2*Str instead of 1.5*Str to damage when using a one-handed exotic weapon with two hands or

    b) Get 2:1 PA returns when using a one-handed exotic weapon with one hand.


    Also, since bastard sword/dwarven waraxe/dragonsplit mention EWM, there should be a note on Revenant Blade in Valenar Double Scimitar's description, too.
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  3. - Top - End - #753
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Yikes, I think I'm responsible for those errors Greenish. Thanks for catching them!

  4. - Top - End - #754
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Hi to all,
    this is my first post and I don't know if this is the right thread to ask for advice, so please bear with me if I'm wrong.

    I was looking for a list of maneuvers with ratings and I ended up in this thread with fully optiomized options.
    My party is nowhere near to be optimized, and I don't want a fully optimized build, but I would like some advices .

    I've just started a new campaign in FR and I'm playing a first level elven Warblade with the aim to enter the Eternal Blade prc.
    I've chose Exotic Weapon Proficiency for flavor and because I like to be able to use ANY weapon thanks to Weapon Aptitude;
    for the first time I'm also using a Spiked Chain because I want something with reach (I don't think I'll use it for tripping).

    I don't want to be a charger and I don't like the tiger claw (resembles too much the barbarian) and partially the Stone dragon (because I feel it's more dawrf-style) disciplines.

    Magic Items are very scarce in my campaign, and even when we meet a shop the items are random or prevently choosen by the DM.

    Given this introduction I have a couple of questions:

    - I'm attracted by the spiked chain + combat reflexes + thicket of blades + stand still "combo" for lock non-reach target into place, but I'm not sure if thicket of blades it's worth the investment of a feat (martial study) and the 15 lvl stance OR a dip in the crusader class (ideally I would like to go for warblade 10 / eternal blade 10) that would rob me of a readied maneuver.
    - I see that almost everyone agree that Ironheart aura + stormguard warrior + robillar's gambit can be addressed as the best route, but I wonder how well would it fare with a non-optimized build: granting +4 to hit and damage to all of your opponents seems to risky to me (I could die, opponent can get away negating my full attack...), isn't it better to do normal AoO?
    - imagine a warblade 10 / eternal blade 5: what maneuver would you chose (being 11 including the swaps) and waht would you keep readied (6). I have my own list but I'm curious about your preferences.

    Please remember that in my campaign optimization is nearly absent and the pc have almost 2 classes.

    Thank you very much!!!

    kingtk3
    Last edited by kingtk3; 2012-01-23 at 06:47 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #755
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    I wouldn't wait so long on getting Thicket of Blades up, I'd pick it up as the 6th level feat, so you can get that part of the combo up early on. Alternatively, the Devoted Spirit maneuver item equivalent to a Crown of the White Raven can save you a feat. Better than dipping Crusader and having to deal with two ILs, since your Warblade levels would only count for half of Crusader and you couldn't pick it up that way till 9th, as a Warblade 8/Crusader 1.
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  6. - Top - End - #756
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    The item only mentions granting maneuvers not stances...
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  7. - Top - End - #757
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    The item only mentions granting maneuvers not stances...
    Disappointing, though the usage of maneuver is kinda fluid, considering they're all in the same list and stances count as maneuvers for whether they have enough maneuvers of a Discipline to get a higher level maneuver. The only place where they really make a distinction is Martial Maneuver and Martial Stance.
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  8. - Top - End - #758
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    The item only mentions granting maneuvers not stances...
    "Stance is a special kind of maneuver", according to the introduction. Make of that what you will.
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  9. - Top - End - #759
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Thank you for your answers!
    What do you think of this maneuver progression? "->" indicates a swap while "/" are choices i'm very pendent about

    Warblade1: moment of perfect mind, steel wind, stone bones
    Warblade2: leading the attack
    Warblade3: mountain hammer
    Warblade4: stone bones -> wall of blades
    Warblade5: Iron heart surge
    Warblade6: steel wind -> white raven tactics/insightful strike
    Warblade7: mithral tornado
    Warblade8: leading the attack -> ruby nightmare blade/insightful strike
    Warblade9: disrupting blow
    Warblade10: ????? -> rapid counter
    EternalBlade1: greater insightful strike
    EternalBlade3: finishing move/avalanche of blades (i'm not sure i'll take stormguard warrior)
    EternalBlade5: diamond nightmare blade/adamantine hurricane
    EternalBlade7: time stand still
    EternalBlade9: strike of perfect clarity

    I'm not very sure about ruby nightmare blade, insightful strike and mithral tornado because they provide something useful in the level when i'll pick them (i'm starting first level), but I will not be able to swap them out when I'll reach their upgrades, making them useless.

    What about the readied maneuvers?
    1: time stand still
    2: strike of perfect clarity
    3: moment of perfect mind
    4: iron heart surge
    5: diamond nightmare blade
    6: greater insightful strike
    7: white raven tactics
    8: finishing move

    What stances can you advise me?

    thank you very much for your help.

  10. - Top - End - #760
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfin View Post
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    Bolded maneuvers are those which are never traded away. Stances are in italics.

    L1 Charging Minotaur, Moment of Perfect Mind, Wolf Fang Strike; Leading the Charge
    L2 Sudden Leap
    L3 Wall of Blades
    L4 Wolf Fang Strike -> Emerald Razor; Blood in the Water
    L5 White Raven Tactics
    L6 Charging Minotaur -> Iron Heart Surge
    L7 Bounding Assault
    L8 Emerald Razor -> Death from Above
    L9 Pouncing Charge
    L10 Death from Above -> Disrupting Blow; Press the Advantage
    L11 Manticore Parry
    L12 Disrupting Blow -> Iron Heart Endurance
    L13 Swooping Dragon Strike
    L14 Bounding Assault -> Avalanche of Blades
    L15 White Raven Hammer
    L16 Sudden Leap -> Diamond Nightmare Blade; Stance of Alacrity
    L17 Time Stands Still
    L18 Iron Heart Endurance -> Strike of Perfect Clarity
    L19 War Master's Charge
    L20 Manticore Parry -> Mountain Tombstone Strike
    This was a maneuver progression that I wrote up for a charger-type, but it's pretty generic and would work well for many builds. The focus is on Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, and White Raven; you could focus on Tiger Claw rather than White Raven by switching the levels at which you take Blood in the Water and Leading the Charge, picking Steel Wind rather than Wolf Fang Strike at first, taking Leaping Dragon Stance rather than Press the Advantage, taking Feral Death Blow rather than War Master's Charge, and replacing White Raven Hammer with a maneuver of your choice. The L10-12 maneuver choices are also very malleable.
    Last edited by Elfin; 2012-01-28 at 02:16 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #761
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    I wish someone was as far on Swordsages as this thread is on Warblades. I actually cheated a little and used some of the tips I found here for my first character. Sadly, I got the go-to for an Unarmed Two Weapon Swordsage, but can't quite figure out what moves and such I want to replace and what stances I want for the sake of it.

    I will say that the Warblade Handbook is awesome, though.

  12. - Top - End - #762
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    "Stance is a special kind of maneuver", according to the introduction. Make of that what you will.
    On top of that, stances are also considered maneuvers when it comes to prerequisites for maneuvers.

  13. - Top - End - #763
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfin View Post
    This was a maneuver progression that I wrote up for a charger-type, but it's pretty generic and would work well for many builds. The focus is on Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, and White Raven; you could focus on Tiger Claw rather than White Raven by switching the levels at which you take Blood in the Water and Leading the Charge, picking Steel Wind rather than Wolf Fang Strike at first, taking Leaping Dragon Stance rather than Press the Advantage, taking Feral Death Blow rather than War Master's Charge, and replacing White Raven Hammer with a maneuver of your choice. The L10-12 maneuver choices are also very malleable.
    Thank you for your input Elfin. I have a couple of questions:
    1. what maneuvers would you generally keep readied?
    2. having at most only two counters (moment of perfect mind and wall of blades, if you keep both ready) how much would be useful Stance of Alacrity? Aren't there better stances to be in?

    I'm concerned because while SoA obviously gives the best when you use one counter per round, on the other hand is useless if you don't have (readied) counters. It seems to me that you have to keep ready a reasonable amount of counters and you have to refresh your maneuver as soon as you end your counters for SoA to be effective (without considering that you are reactive and not proactive: no counterable action from your opponents, no use for counters).
    Am I missing something?
    Last edited by kingtk3; 2012-01-30 at 05:55 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #764
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by kingtk3 View Post
    Thank you for your input Elfin. I have a couple of questions:
    1. what maneuvers would you generally keep readied?
    2. having at most only two counters (moment of perfect mind and wall of blades, if you keep both ready) how much would be useful Stance of Alacrity? Aren't there better stances to be in?

    I'm concerned because while SoA obviously gives the best when you use one counter per round, on the other hand is useless if you don't have (readied) counters. It seems to me that you have to keep ready a reasonable amount of counters and you have to refresh your maneuver as soon as you end your counters for SoA to be effective (without considering that you are reactive and not proactive: no counterable action from your opponents, no use for counters).
    Am I missing something?
    Yes, yes you are. Boosts are activated as swift actions. Swift actions eat up your immediate actions. It takes an immediate action to use a counter.

  15. - Top - End - #765
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon View Post
    Yes, yes you are. Boosts are activated as swift actions. Swift actions eat up your immediate actions. It takes an immediate action to use a counter.
    I completely agree with you, but doesn't the usefulness of SoA boil down to how many counters do you plan to use in an encounter?
    I see that on paper it can be broken if you chose your maneuvers around it; what interests me is how would look the pool (not necessarly the best pool) of maneuver that can gain valor from SoA.

    On the same line, I would like to know what do you think is the best stance for a character not built to exploit SoA.

    Thanks in advance.

  16. - Top - End - #766
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon View Post
    Yes, yes you are. Boosts are activated as swift actions. Swift actions eat up your immediate actions. It takes an immediate action to use a counter.
    I think you've got it backwards. Immediate actions eat up your swift actions. If you use an immediate action on your turn, it counts as your swift action that turn. If you use an immediate action out of your turn, it eats up your *next* swift action.

    Using a swift action on your turn has no effect on whether or not you can use an immediate action later.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Elfin, how are other item enhancements coming along?
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    On the other hand, what Stance of Alacrity really does well is make sure you always have access to your Saving Throw maneuvers. Losing those can be very bad.
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  19. - Top - End - #769
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    It also helps TWF a lot, with it you can use a boost every round and you still have a counter prepared in case you need it.
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  20. - Top - End - #770
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    It also helps TWF a lot, with it you can use a boost every round and you still have a counter prepared in case you need it.
    Giving a second thought, boosts have to be taken in account considering Stance of Alacrity

    These are all the counters avaible to a warblade:
    • Moment of perfect mind
    • action before thought
    • Wall of blades
    • mind over body
    • lightning recovery
    • rapid counter
    • iron heart focus
    • manticore parry
    • diamond defense


    and these are the boosts:
    • sudden leap
    • lion's roar
    • white raven tactics
    • boulder roll
    • fountain of blood
    • covering strike
    • dancing mongoose
    • moment of alacrity
    • iron heart endurance
    • quicksilver motion
    • scything blade
    • clarion call
    • girallon windmill
    • raging mongoose


    I would like to go warblade 10 / eternal balde 10, so at level 15 (when I'll get to choose the eighth level stance) I will know 11 maneuvers, 6 of which I could keep readied.

    What do you think of this configuration?
    1. Moment of perfect mind
    2. Wall of blades
    3. rapid counter
    4. white raven tactics
    5. adamantine hurricane
    6. finishing move
    7. diamond nightmare blade or another Diamond Mind maneuver (bonus via eternal blade prc)

    I have a question regards adamantine hurricane: if I have reach do I still hit only adjacents enemies?
    What do you think is better between Supreme blade parry, hearing the air and press the advantage?

    Thank you!!!

  21. - Top - End - #771
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by kingtk3 View Post
    I have a question regards adamantine hurricane: if I have reach do I still hit only adjacents enemies?
    It says adjacent.
    What do you think is better between Supreme blade parry, hearing the air and press the advantage?

    Thank you!!!
    Did you read the stance section in this thread? Supreme Blade Parry is TERRIBLE. If you want an example of a melee opponent at level 17 look at the Frost Giant Jarl. DR isn't worthwhile unless you can absorb at least 1/4 of its damage.

    I don't know much about Press the Advantage, but if Hearing the Air wasn't your 9th level stance, I hope you made it Dancing Blade Form. Unless you have a Blindfold of True Darkness, get Hearing the Air.

  22. - Top - End - #772
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    You might want to add the following to your template section: Obah-Blessed. either the 2 or 3 LA version gives most PC races Multiattack as a free feat, additional arm!!!!, and stat adjustments that make any melee monster drool.

  23. - Top - End - #773
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    You also might want to add 3rd eyes to the magic item list. Third Eye Concentrate in particular is fantastic for Warblades.

  24. - Top - End - #774
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    awesome guide
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by irbaboon View Post
    awesome guide
    Thanks, I'll take credit, cuz Elfin's long gone.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    nice guide

    what book is PAPG?
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by GenghisDon View Post
    what book is PAPG?
    A book that I have, that has weapons that are mostly in 3.5 books too, except with weaker stats than the 3.5 versions for some reason.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Should've been said earlier, but
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Threadomancy pic[/IMG]
    Wouldn't it be better to just link to the current version, which I think is Harnel's, unless Draz has another repost that's more recent and up to date somewhere that my Google Fu isn't finding?
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Wouldn't it be better to just link to the current version, which I think is Harnel's, unless Draz has another repost that's more recent and up to date somewhere that my Google Fu isn't finding?
    You mean the thread that ends with Elfin saying he's back and his original thread is up and running?

    (followed by no activity for most of the last 6 months...)

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