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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Level 10, 13 ranks, dex mod 5, synergy 2, +10 from magical items, total modifiers +30, no ACP, I can suceed 50% of the time. Before that the chances are even less.
    That's not even trying. Acrobatic (incidentally, I think it's a bonus feat for Warblade), Skill Focus, Item Familiar. Your level 10 character now has Tumble +39. He will never fail again.
    Also, with Tumble +30, you succeed 55% of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    No, you said "Unless you shout 'just refluff it!' at your DMs face" which has different implications.
    A joke is a joke and I'm sorry if you didn't get it. If someone asks why answering there is no way is hardly an answer. Then again, maybe my brazilian jokes are not funny for you. I apologize.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    To a reliable get a DC 40 check?

    There are alternatives.
    I listed but a few options. PersonMan has many more.

    DC 40 may seem daunting but, if you invest somewhat into increasing your Tumble skill check, it isn't that hard to get it online reliably. Putting in ranks, taking a level in Exemplar for Skill Mastery(Tumble) and Skill Artistry, 5 ranks in Jump, having a decent Dex, getting a MW Tumbling tool, custom Competence item, a level in Blade Dancer or Foot and Fist Mastery, it all adds up to make that feasible.

    Now, I'm not saying you should depend on getting this early. I'm saying it's an alternative that can come online in the midlevels.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    Actually, I think maximized Tumble fits a Warblade a lot better than wild fighting. Specially when you consider you can't use strikes in a charge.
    I. The Warblade has access to Tiger Claw, the essence of wild fighting.

    II. This is not necessarily true; there are maneuvers that can only be done in a charge. In fact, one of them lets you pounce.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Ring of Evasion means never playing a monk with monk levels again. There is just no reason to dip that stuff. I know we're all about using every part of the buffalo here, but can we just admit that it's inedible?

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose87 View Post
    II. This is not necessarily true; there are maneuvers that can only be done in a charge. In fact, one of them lets you pounce.
    Yes but that doesn't necessarily allow you to make a full attack as well. Those maneuvers specifically call for a full-round action, which is not a charge attack action, which Pounce specifically needs.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2010-12-08 at 05:03 PM.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose87 View Post
    I. The Warblade has access to Tiger Claw, the essence of wild fighting.
    He also has access to Diamond Mind, the essence of non-wild fighting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose87 View Post
    II. This is not necessarily true; there are maneuvers that can only be done in a charge. In fact, one of them lets you pounce.
    Of course not. That's why I said 'I think'.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    That's not even trying. Acrobatic
    (incidentally, I think it's a bonus feat for Warblade), Skill Focus, Item Familiar. Your level 10 character now has Tumble +39.
    So three feats, two of which aren't warblade bonus feats, and it only really kicks in at level ten. Oh, and one of those feats isn't always allowed and will have significant RP implications if it is. Additional costs are: Armour cannot have ACP, you need to get +10 from magical items. Overall that is quite an investment compared to a single level dip in another martial class.

    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    He will never fail again.
    Difficult terrain. Chances are pretty low, but still...

    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    Also, with Tumble +30, you succeed 55% of the time.
    Right you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    A joke is a joke and I'm sorry if you didn't get it. If someone asks why answering there is no way is hardly an answer. Then again, maybe my brazilian jokes are not funny for you. I apologize.
    It not just on this thread. To me, you immediatly become needlessly antagonistic as soon as topic, or even the portential for the topic, of refluffing arises. Thats my observation at least.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Guys, just remember to keep it civil. There's no need to argue.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    It not just on this thread. To me, you immediatly become needlessly antagonistic as soon as topic, or even the portential for the topic, of refluffing arises. Thats my observation at least.
    That's pretty weird, I have plenty of refluffed characters in my game (a human that took Otherwordly even though it's a Faerun regional feat and he's not in Faerun, a Cyran Avenger with the whole class refluffed as 'thirst for battle', a Shiba Protector with No Thought refluffed as weak but skilled, a Sohei with ki frenzy refluffed as an alchemical potion he brewed himself... there are probably more examples if I think about it hard enough). I even suggest refluffing for one of the builds in my Suel Arcanamach handbook.
    So I'm sorry, but I think you are just wrong. I have nothing against refluffing, I just don't think it should be done aimlessly.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    So three feats, two of which aren't warblade bonus feats, and it only really kicks in at level ten. Oh, and one of those feats isn't always allowed and will have significant RP implications if it is. Additional costs are: Armour cannot have ACP, you need to get +10 from magical items. Overall that is quite an investment compared to a single level dip in another martial class.

    Difficult terrain. Chances are pretty low, but still...
    ACP-less armor is not terribly difficult to do, especially when you're limited to medium armor. (Tumbler's Breastplate!) Mithral and the Nimble enchantment does much for that. As for +10 magic, that's 10k, which becomes increasingly inconsequential an expense, if WBL is to be believed. It's not a major investment, if we ignore the feats. Again, I didn't say DC 40 Tumble was a low-level trick. And I don't see how dipping cleric for Travel and possibly Knowledge Devotion isn't any more of an expense than dipping Barbarian is.

    It not just on this thread. To me, you immediatly become needlessly antagonistic as soon as topic, or even the portential for the topic, of refluffing arises. Thats my observation at least.
    Could you take that to PM or drop the argument, as it's not pertinent to this thread and I'd rather not see it get locked because of it and I hope neither do you two, either.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfin View Post
    Why not, Draz?
    Quote Originally Posted by Elfin View Post
    I'd actually disagree that it's dairy at all; really most melee characters need Pounce to be effective. Honestly, I think it's something they should have had from the outset.
    I dislike the Pouncing Barbarian Dip for several reasons.
    1. Even if it's not "cheesy" compared to non-melee builds, it's cheesy. It's just a more powerful ability than a class should get at Level 1.
    2. It's terrible flavor. Now every decent warrior has to be a non-Lawful rage-fueled savage, at least a little bit? Lolwut.
    3. There are a few better-designed ways to enable full attacks.
    4. My inner simulationist is hurt by an at-will ability to move 60 feet and still make several attacks in 6 seconds. Even more than D&D generally hurts, that is. It just ... doesn't look right to me when I imagine it.
    5. Tome of Battle warriors don't really need full attacks that badly anyway.
    6. I'm just tired of seeing Barbarian 1 in too many melee builds.
    7. It bothers me that this ability ever made it through editing. Compare it to the other Complete Champion Totem options ... it's not even in the same league. I've heard some good arguments that Pounce was probably intended to be a Level 5 ACF, but got mixed up in the writing process somehow.


    Note that I would similarly disallow Cleric dips just for Travel Devotion, too.
    Last edited by Draz74; 2010-12-08 at 07:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Warblades and the other Martial Adepts can live without Pounce because of all the fun Strikes they get. As for other melee classes, well, that's the fault of 3.x, so what can you do?
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    1. Even if it's not "cheesy" compared to non-melee builds, it's cheesy. It's just a more powerful ability than a class should get at Level 1.
    Although you get it at level 1, outside of TWF, which deserves it, and whirling frenzy, it really doesn't help until 6th level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Ring of Evasion means never playing a monk with monk levels again. There is just no reason to dip that stuff. I know we're all about using every part of the buffalo here, but can we just admit that it's inedible?

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose87 View Post
    Although you get it at level 1, outside of TWF, which deserves it, and whirling frenzy, it really doesn't help until 6th level.
    Multiclass.

    (Your argument is, indeed, why it doesn't bother me much on pure Barbarians. Well, that, and the flavor is more palatable. The simulationist in me still cringes, though.)
    Last edited by Draz74; 2010-12-08 at 08:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    I dislike the Pouncing Barbarian Dip for several reasons.
    1. Even if it's not "cheesy" compared to non-melee builds, it's cheesy. It's just a more powerful ability than a class should get at Level 1.
    2. It's terrible flavor. Now every decent warrior has to be a non-Lawful rage-fueled savage, at least a little bit? Lolwut.
    3. There are a few better-designed ways to enable full attacks.
    4. My inner simulationist is hurt by an at-will ability to move 60 feet and still make several attacks in 6 seconds. Even more than D&D generally hurts, that is. It just ... doesn't look right to me when I imagine it.
    5. Tome of Battle warriors don't really need full attacks that badly anyway.
    6. I'm just tired of seeing Barbarian 1 in too many melee builds.
    7. It bothers me that this ability ever made it through editing. Compare it to the other Complete Champion Totem options ... it's not even in the same league. I've heard some good arguments that Pounce was probably intended to be a Level 5 ACF, but got mixed up in the writing process somehow.


    Note that I would similarly disallow Cleric dips just for Travel Devotion, too.
    Well, I'd like to point out that, outside of heavy optimization, level 6 seems to be where the real-world abilities of humans and DnD start to split. A level 5 fighter is still working within the bounds of our abilities. A level 10 fighter has begun surpassing those. A level 20 character is pretty much super-human. That's why systems like E6 exist; some people want to play characters that aren't superhuman.

    Also, having the Rage ability does not mean you have to USE the Rage ability. You could have a character who only uses it when they actually get ANGRY, and have it be partially a role-play ability. Or it could be their reserve ability, for when a fight gets too tough to beat without using their anger as a weapon. Or it could be a cold rage, where he just tries to attack you over and over, unrelenting until it ends. You're claiming it places RP restriction ("rage-fueled savage"), but that's something that you can easily RP differently.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by absolmorph View Post
    Well, I'd like to point out that, outside of heavy optimization, level 6 seems to be where the real-world abilities of humans and DnD start to split. A level 5 fighter is still working within the bounds of our abilities. A level 10 fighter has begun surpassing those. A level 20 character is pretty much super-human. That's why systems like E6 exist; some people want to play characters that aren't superhuman.
    Look, as far as the "inner simulationist pain" objection goes, I'm not really wanting an argument, and I'm not saying anyone else has to feel the same way. I'm just saying, when I imagine fantasy combat, some abilities "look" right in my head, and at-will Pounce does not.

    (Side note: there's a lot of holes in the "level 6 is where characters become superhuman" argument anyway.)

    Also, having the Rage ability does not mean you have to USE the Rage ability. You could have a character who only uses it when they actually get ANGRY, and have it be partially a role-play ability. Or it could be their reserve ability, for when a fight gets too tough to beat without using their anger as a weapon. Or it could be a cold rage, where he just tries to attack you over and over, unrelenting until it ends. You're claiming it places RP restriction ("rage-fueled savage"), but that's something that you can easily RP differently.
    I'm not a newbie to refluffing classes. I understand all this. I still find it poor game design to need to put a level called "Barbarian" onto an otherwise non-Barbarian-ish character just so he can Pounce.
    Last edited by Draz74; 2010-12-08 at 08:39 PM.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    This is epicly useful for my PbP game

    I am approaching level two though and I had a question I dont think is covered by the wall of blades text block in the book

    If I am fighting something and it rolls a d20+3 and say gets a nat 20...If I roll higher than a 23 with my attack do I deflect it or do I have to crit in return to block a crit?

    I am away from my book so I figured it would be safe to ask here!
    Last edited by FelixG; 2010-12-09 at 01:37 AM.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Not quite sure on the RAW, but a natural 20 is an auto-hit, regardless of AC, and Wall of Blades just gives you an alternative way to calculate AC, I'd say a natural 20 still hits, no matter what.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    I'd lean towards the same verdict, myself.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by dgnslyr View Post
    Not quite sure on the RAW, but a natural 20 is an auto-hit, regardless of AC, and Wall of Blades just gives you an alternative way to calculate AC, I'd say a natural 20 still hits, no matter what.
    Cutting across the issue here, but I'd thought concealment chance cuts across natural 20, doesn't it? If not, there's probably a few disgruntled players I need to talk to...

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post
    Cutting across the issue here, but I'd thought concealment chance cuts across natural 20, doesn't it? If not, there's probably a few disgruntled players I need to talk to...
    Miss chance provided by concealment should still work on Natural 20s. You're supposed to roll miss chance after you determine if you've achieved a high enough roll to hit that appropriate AC. A natural 20 just means that roll succeeded.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Potential houserules aside, I can't see why Wall of Blades wouldn't stop a Natural 20 by the way it's written.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    Potential houserules aside, I can't see why Wall of Blades wouldn't stop a Natural 20 by the way it's written.
    Draz, Wall of Blades makes you have an AC of X where X is your attack roll. Natural 20 always hits, regardless of AC.
    Can't see how it would spot a natural 20.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    Draz, Wall of Blades makes you have an AC of X where X is your attack roll. Natural 20 always hits, regardless of AC.
    Can't see how it would spot a natural 20.
    Never mind, I'm a moron. I was misremembering the wording of Wall of Blades, and commented on it without bothering to look it up.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Working on third and fourth level maneuvers now. Obviously, my initial timeline has sort of gone down the drain, in part because the project's scope has expanded a lot from my original conception, but I hope to finish all the maneuvers/stances in a week or so.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfin View Post
    Working on third and fourth level maneuvers now. Obviously, my initial timeline has sort of gone down the drain, in part because the project's scope has expanded a lot from my original conception, but I hope to finish all the maneuvers/stances in a week or so.
    its a great resource and it is greatly appreciated!

    Thank you again for this handbook!
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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    About Stonefoot Stance, you say 'most Str checks are outside combat'. But remember, you need a Str check to trip and to bull rush. The stance still sucks, but it does have a larger scope in combat that you mentioned.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Here are a couple of builds I wrote up for some friends of mine. Useful as examples of what you can do with warblade/fighter and Warblade/psychic warrior.

    The drummer boy.
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    needs 13 Str (more is better), needs 17 Dex (less if drop improved TWF),

    Human Two Weapon Fighting
    Fighter 1 1/0 Power Attack Weapon Focus -Light Mace
    Fighter 2 2/1 Lightning Mace
    Fighter 3 3/1 Combat Reflexes
    Fighter 4 4/2 Weapon Specialization -Light Mace
    Warblade 1 5/3 *Emerald Razor *Wolf Fang Strike *Blood in Water *Moment of Perfect Mind *Lightning Recovery
    Warblade 2 6/4 Uncanny Dodge Improved Two-Weapon Fighting *Disarming Strike *Dancing Mongoose
    Warblade 3 7/5 *Iron Heart Surge
    Fighter 5 8/5
    Fighter 6 9/6 Melee Weapon Mastery-Bludegoning Improved Critical -Light Mace
    Warblade 4 10/7 *Pearl of Black Doubt *Flesh Ripper (lose Wolf Fang Strike)
    Warblade 5 11/8 Quickdraw (bonus feat) *Lightning Recovery
    Warblade 6 12/9 Two-Weapon Rend Improved Uncanny *Dancing Mongoose (lose one strike)
    Fighter 7 13/9
    Fighter 8 14/10 Crushing Strike

    Lightning Mace
    [Style]
    (CWar p113)
    Combat Reflexes
    Two-Weapon Fighting
    Weapon Focus (light mace)
    If fighting with a Light Mace in each hand, anytime you threaten a Critical, you gain an
    additional attack at the same attack bonus.

    Two-Weapon Rend
    [General, Fighter]
    Dexterity 15
    Base Attack Bonus +11
    Two-Weapon Fighting
    If you damage an opponent with each of your weapons in a given round, you do extra damage equal to
    1d6 + 1 ½ Strength modifier. With regards to Damage Reduction, use the off-hand weapon
    A given creature may only take this rending damage once per round.

    Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
    Dexterity 17
    Base Attack Bonus +6
    Two-Weapon Fighting
    As part of a Full Round Attack, you may make an attack
    with your secondary weapon at –2, a second attack at –7.

    Crushing Strike
    [General]
    Base Attack Bonus +14
    Weapon Focus (any bludgeoning)
    Weapon Specialization (any bludgeoning)
    Melee Weapon Master – Bludgeoning
    When making a Full Round Attack with any Bludgeoning melee weapon, you receive a +1 cumulative
    bonus on attack rolls for each roll that has hit this round (i.e., it restarts at +0 at the start of each round).

    Melee Weapon Mastery –Bludgeoning
    [General, Fighter]
    Base Attack Bonus +8
    Weapon Focus (any bludgeoning melee)
    Weapon Specialization (any bludgeoning melee)
    Any Melee Bludgeoning weapon you wield has a +2 bonus on attack & damage rolls.

    Disarming Strike Single attack, normal damage, free disarm attempt Standard
    Emerald Razor Single attack as touch attack, normal damage Standard
    Moment of Perfect Mind Use Concentration check for a Will save Immediate
    Dancing Mongoose 1 extra attack per weapon, max 2 extra attacks, Swift
    use best attack bonus, single target
    Blood in the Water +1 cumulative untyped attack and damage per critical hit (see text) Stance
    Wolf Fang Strike Attack with both weapons on one opponent, -2 both attacks Standard
    Iron Heart Surge End one effect on you, +2 morale bonus on attacks for one round Standard
    Pearl of Black Doubt +2 cumulative dodge bonus per melee attack that misses you, Stance
    resets at the beginning of your round
    Flesh Ripper Single attack, target has -4 AC and attacks for 1 round, Standard
    Fort save (13+Str mod) negates, crit multiplies the duration (see text)
    Lightning Recovery Reroll one attack at +2 to hit Immediate

    Attack Routines at level 11
    Glaive base atk +11 dmg 1d10 crit 20 x3 (+ 1.5 xStr) reach weapon, 2hander
    Maul base atk +13 dmg 1d10+2 crit 20 x2 (+ 1.5 xStr) 2hander
    Glaive (reach) for attack of opportunity, drop glaive and quickdraw maul
    Emerald Razor + Power Attack (touch attack and power atk -10 to hit +20 dmg)

    Two Light Maces base atk +12/+7/+2 dmg 1d6+4 crit 19-20 x2 (+ Str)
    offhand +12/+7 dmg 1d6+4 crit 19-20 x2 (+ 0.5 xStr)
    on threat (19-20) get extra attack at same attack bonus
    on crit get +1 to hit & dmg for all following attacks (bonus lasts from the
    last crit +10 rounds) while in Blood in the Water stance

    at level 12 Str 15 (+2), +1 collision maces.
    Two Light Maces base atk +16/+16/+11/+6 dmg 1d6+12 crit 19-20 x2
    offhand +16/+16/+11 dmg 1d6+11 crit 19-20 x2
    on threat (19-20) get extra attack at same attack bonus
    on crit get +1 to hit & dmg for all following attacks (bonus lasts from the
    last crit +10 rounds) while in Blood in the Water stance
    if hit at least once with each weapon Rend for 1d6+3

    Withering: A rod of withering acts as a +1 light mace that deals no hit point damage. Instead, the
    wielder deals 1d4 points of Strength damage and 1d4 points of Constitution damage to any creature
    she touches with the rod (by making a melee touch attack). If she scores a critical hit, the damage from
    that hit is permanent ability drain. In either case, the defender negates the effect with a DC 17 Fort save.


    Mr. Smush
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    DEEP IMPACT [PSIONIC]
    Prerequisite: Str 13, Psionic Weapon, base attack bonus +5.
    Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. You can resolve your attack
    with a melee weapon as a touch attack. You must decide whether or not to use this feat prior
    to making an attack. If your attack misses, you still expend your psionic focus

    GREATER PSIONIC WEAPON [PSIONIC]
    Prerequisite: Str 13, Psionic Weapon, base attack bonus +5.
    Benefit: When you use the Psionic Weapon feat, your attack with a melee weapon deals an
    extra 4d6 points of damage instead of an extra 2d6 points.

    PSIONIC BODY [PSIONIC]
    Benefit: When you take this feat, you gain 2 hit points for each psionic feat you have
    (including this one). Whenever you take a new psionic feat, you gain 2 more hit points.

    PSIONIC WEAPON [PSIONIC]
    Prerequisite: Str 13.
    Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus.
    Your attack with a melee weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of damage. You must decide
    whether or not to use this feat prior to making an attack. If your attack misses,
    you still expend your psionic focus

    level class bab/ini pow/lvl feats
    1 psywar1 0/0 1,1 psionic weapon, power attack, Force Screen
    2 psywar2 1/1 2,1 psionic body, Float
    3 warblade1 2/2 3-3-1 (1) improved toughness, Moment of Perfect Mind, 2m, 1s
    4 warblade2 3/3 4-3-1 (2) Emerald Razor
    5 psywar3 4/3 3,1 Expansion
    6 warblade3 5/4 5-3-1 (2) deep impact, Battle Leader's Charge
    7 psywar4 6/5 4,2 Body Adjustment
    8 warblade4 7/6 t-4-2 (3) White Raven Tactics, Pearl of Black Doubt
    9 psywar5 7/6 5,2 greater psi weapon, psionic meditation


    @12
    {standard} emerald razor, PA 10, +str vs. touch AC, wp+(str*1.5)+20
    {swift} lightning recovery if miss
    {move} psionic meditation [regain focus]

    {swift} regain maneuvers
    {standard} deep impact [expend focus], PA 10, +str vs. touch AC, wp+(str*1.5)+20
    {move} [open]



    Sorry about the formatting, I imported them from spreadsheets and didn't fool with them too much.
    Niven's Laws, #5
    If you've nothing to say, say it any way you like. Stylistic innovations, contorted story lines or none, exotic or genderless pronouns, internal inconsistencies, the recipe for preparing your lover as a cannibal banquet: feel free. If what you have to say is important and/or difficult to follow, use the simplest language possible. If the reader doesn't get it then, let it not be your fault.

  28. - Top - End - #178
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Elfin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    I was going to post them all in one go, but I think I'll stick to the bit-by-bit method. I decided to make IHS and WRT gold rather than cyan - do you think that was a good choice, or should I make them cyan instead? My reasoning was that they're by far the most amazing level 3 warblade maneuvers, and never run out of use: in a sense, they're the essential 3rd-level maneuvers.

    Thanks for the builds, by the way, Telok! I'll make sure to put them up.

    Edit: I do sort of feel like I'm being harsh on Stone Dragon. What are your guys' thoughts?
    Last edited by Elfin; 2010-12-11 at 03:07 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #179
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfin View Post
    I was going to post them all in one go, but I think I'll stick to the bit-by-bit method. I decided to make IHS and WRT gold rather than cyan - do you think that was a good choice, or should I make them cyan instead? My reasoning was that they're by far the most amazing level 3 warblade maneuvers, and never run out of use: in a sense, they're the essential 3rd-level maneuvers.

    Thanks for the builds, by the way, Telok! I'll make sure to put them up.

    Edit: I do sort of feel like I'm being harsh on Stone Dragon. What are your guys' thoughts?
    It would depend on the DM. If you're allowed to use it on yourself, WRT is definitely golden. I'd put IHS as cyan, because it depends on the DM even more so.

    Nope, you're being perfectly fair to Stone Dragon. Pick up Mountain Hammer, Mountain Tombstone Strike, and completely ignore the rest.

  30. - Top - End - #180
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Draz74's Avatar

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    Default Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfin View Post
    I was going to post them all in one go, but I think I'll stick to the bit-by-bit method. I decided to make IHS and WRT gold rather than cyan - do you think that was a good choice, or should I make them cyan instead?
    Personally, I'd say WRT = gold, IHS = "only" cyan.

    Edit: I do sort of feel like I'm being harsh on Stone Dragon. What are your guys' thoughts?
    Hmmm, the only one I've thought was entirely the wrong color was Charging Minotaur. It's awesome damage at low levels and never entirely loses value as a cheap way of getting "temporary Improved Bull Rush" (unless, of course, your Warblade takes the actual feat).

    In general, I think you're looking at Stone Dragon too much in terms of how they scale, when they're actually decent at the levels you can first get them. You keep calling Save DCs "low" (Bonecrusher, Exorcism of Steel), but they're not, when you first get them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    Nope, you're being perfectly fair to Stone Dragon. Pick up Mountain Hammer, Mountain Tombstone Strike, and completely ignore the rest.
    Oversimplistic.

    Mountain Hammer is excellent in any case, yes. Every Warblade should take it. Mountain Tombstone Strike? Not so much. It's decent if you get to ignore the "must not be flying" thing, or if you're in a campaign where not many things fly. But even then, I wouldn't call it a must-have.

    And if you're in a campaign where the flight thing isn't a problem, there are a few other Stone Dragon maneuvers that are decent, if not amazing:
    Spoiler
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    • Charging Minotaur
    • Stone Bones (an incredible choice to take at Level 1, swap out at Level 4)
    • Roots of the Mountain -- good battlefield control if you're too feat-starved to pick up Thicket of Blades
    • Bonesplitting Strike
    • Elder Mountain Hammer
    • Mountain Avalanche
    • Crushing Vise
    • Irresistible Mountain Strike
    • Ancient Mountain Hammer

    Elfin just hasn't gotten to the levels where most of these decent maneuvers are at.
    Last edited by Draz74; 2010-12-11 at 03:32 PM.
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    Also of note:

    Work on my homebrew system, CRE8, is still marching slowly onwards. I think I can see the light at the end of the tunnel -- an Alpha release -- in the distance now. Read my Design Goals here.

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