NFL stuff.

[An Enemy Spy]

...Why wouldn't you want to play good teams?
If you get places by just beating lousy teams, you can't say you're a good team at all.

Says who? How many "good teams" make it in the NFL by the fact that they played a lot of lousy teams? If I have a chance at the Superbowl, I don't care if I got there by beating the Patriots or by beating the Panthers. The end result is the same.

[PhoeKun]

...Why wouldn't you want to play good teams?
If you get places by just beating lousy teams, you can't say you're a good team at all.

Because by playing lousy teams, you can guarantee yourself at least the 4th seed in the playoffs every year and get a home game against a worn down opponent, so you can puff your chest out and say "we're going places!" when you're plainly not.

But then, fanhood breeds bias. And my team just lost to the freaking Jets. So what do I know?

[An Enemy Spy]

Because by playing lousy teams, you can guarantee yourself at least the 4th seed in the playoffs every year and get a home game against a worn down opponent, so you can puff your chest out and say "we're going places!" when you're plainly not.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[KuReshtin]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Why would you prefer to get to the playoffs at 7-9 than get a draft pick 13 spots earlier in the draft? Now, the Seahawks will get the 26th pick instead of the 13th-15th. If nothing else, the 13th pick is more valuable if you want to trade it away.

Also, playing better teams forces you to become better to be able to beat them.
Settling for playing inferior teams and still barely scraping into the playoffs doesn't do anything for the team other than saying that you made it to the playoffs, and the Packers showed that the Seahawks were very much outmatched.

[An Enemy Spy]

Why would you prefer to get to the playoffs at 7-9 than get a draft pick 13 spots earlier in the draft? Now, the Seahawks will get the 26th pick instead of the 13th-15th. If nothing else, the 13th pick is more valuable if you want to trade it away.

Also, playing better teams forces you to become better to be able to beat them.
Settling for playing inferior teams and still barely scraping into the playoffs doesn't do anything for the team other than saying that you made it to the playoffs, and the Packers showed that the Seahawks were very much outmatched.

Bears did. We didn't play the Packers. Also, you can't criticize a team for whether or not they play good opponents. They have no control over that.
And by your logic, I should be a die hard Lions fan. They always get the high draft pick so obviously they must be worth rooting for. If you're not playing to win, you shouldn't be playing at all. And winners get bad draft picks.

[PhoeKun]

And by your logic, I should be a die hard Lions fan. They always get the high draft pick so obviously they must be worth rooting for. If you're not playing to win, you shouldn't be playing at all. And winners get bad draft picks.

That's actually not his point. At 7-9 (and more importantly, the statistical season that went along with it), your team was almost a non-factor in terms of Super Bowl odds. Maybe, maybe 5%. I know, I know, Any Given Sunday and all that junk (except your coach is Pete Carrol, so you can only win on Saturdays... ), but in all honesty what you did is trade 13 positions on the draft board for 1 weekend where you could pat yourself on the back.

They're not good enough to win the Super Bowl, and now they're not even in a decent position to get better next year. With the same record in a stronger position, you'd be in better position to have a good team next year. If the Seahawks are really content to back into the playoffs on top of a slagheap each year, they aren't playing to win. They're playing for warm fuzzies, which isn't even close.

[An Enemy Spy]

That's actually not his point. At 7-9 (and more importantly, the statistical season that went along with it), your team was almost a non-factor in terms of Super Bowl odds. Maybe, maybe 5%. I know, I know, Any Given Sunday and all that junk (except your coach is Pete Carrol, so you can only win on Saturdays... ), but in all honesty what you did is trade 13 positions on the draft board for 1 weekend where you could pat yourself on the back.

They're not good enough to win the Super Bowl, and now they're not even in a decent position to get better next year. With the same record in a stronger position, you'd be in better position to have a good team next year. If the Seahawks are really content to back into the playoffs on top of a slagheap each year, they aren't playing to win. They're playing for warm fuzzies, which isn't even close.

I would agree with that except...
We defeated the Super Bowl Champions, who were considered perhaps the second best team in the NFC. Obviously we did have an impact in the playoffs. Definitely more than the No. 1 seeded Falcons who were completely run out of their own building, and more than the #1 ranked Patriots. Heck, the only reason the Steelers won is because the Ravens handed them the game on a silver platter in the second half, a week after beating a completely hapless Chiefs team. All in all, I'd say we did quite a bit better than a lot of the other playoff teams.

[raitalin]

Third worst teams in toilets of divisions don't beat teams like the Saints. Therefore, we are not the third worst team in a toilet of a division, we are the best team in a toilet of a division.

Sure they do. Just this year Detroit beat Green Bay, Denver beat Kansas City, and Arizona beat New Orleans. Just because a team wins a few key games it doesn't make them the best, it just means they performed their best at the right time and the other teams didn't. That's the whole thing behind the phrase "Any Given Sunday" and the whole point of league parity.

I don't follow Seattle very closely, but it doesn't seem like they're on the way to vast improvement in any category. Their defense is abysmal, and that's the key to getting through the playoffs.

EDIT: I'd put NO at about...5th or 6th in the NFC this year. As I pointed out, Arizona beat them earlier in the season. A high powered offense and a defense good enough to get by can take you places, but its risky. Ask Philadelphia and Indianapolis.

[An Enemy Spy]

Sure they do. Just this year Detroit beat Green Bay, Denver beat Kansas City, and Arizona beat New Orleans. Just because a team wins a few key games it doesn't make them the best, it just means they performed their best at the right time and the other teams didn't. That's the whole thing behind the phrase "Any Given Sunday" and the whole point of league parity.

I don't follow Seattle very closely, but it doesn't seem like they're on the way to vast improvement in any category. Their defense is abysmal, and that's the key to getting through the playoffs.

Have to agree with you there. You have no idea how much this pains me.
Let's talk about something else. This is starting to turn into the Bash the Hawks Show.
Who will win the Superbowl? My money is on Green Bay. With New England out of the picture, no team has a more dynamic offense than the Packers. And their defense is playing at a high level too. I'd say their only real weakness is special teams. How else do you explain a lineman getting a 71-yard return?

[Erloas]

I would actually say the morale boost for the Seahawks getting into and winning the first playoff game is a lot more valuable then getting 13-15th pick instead of 26th.
Confidence is one of the most valuable things for any team and its a lot harder to acquire then any player.

And there are a lot of examples of amazing players that didn't go in the first couple picks, that didn't go in the first round, even some that were never drafted at all. A theoretical person in the draft isn't really worth all that much because there are so many examples of high draft picks that did anything from completely bombing or were just mediocre. Its not often that one player has that big of an impact on a team... and there is no real way of knowing which ones will and it tends to take a few years anyway.

Getting your current players to believe they really do, as a team, have what it takes to win is worth more then any number of potential draft picks.

[PhoeKun]

I would agree with that except...
We defeated the Super Bowl Champions, who were considered perhaps the second best team in the NFC. Obviously we did have an impact in the playoffs. Definitely more than the No. 1 seeded Falcons who were completely run out of their own building, and more than the #1 ranked Patriots. Heck, the only reason the Steelers won is because the Ravens handed them the game on a silver platter in the second half, a week after beating a completely hapless Chiefs team. All in all, I'd say we did quite a bit better than a lot of the other playoff teams.

I don't want to pick on you, so this is the very last I'm going to say on this topic, but... You need to stop tooting that particular horn. Seattle didn't defeat the Super Bowl Champions, they defeated the 2010 New Orleans Saints. And by the way, here's what they really beat: a dome team. Traveling to the West Coast. On a short week of rest. With both of its starting running backs on injured reserve. In one of the loudest stadiums in the NFL. And it was still close. No giant killers or world shakers, here. If your playoff accomplishments on the year include "took at a team too worn down to advance out of the running" and "scored a couple of garbage time touchdowns in the middle of a blowout", you haven't really had a big playoff impact. You got to feel good about your team for exactly the same amount of time as Atlanta Falcons fans.

And you know what? The Falcons fans aren't happy about that. And why should they be? They got trounced and humiliated. The goal was a Super Bowl, and they fell short. I mean, if beating one team in the Wild Card round each year is your goal, then... more power to you, I guess. I'm glad you're getting what you want out of this sport. But as far as "playing to win" goes? I don't know about you, but I want my team to actually be reaching for the big prize. And if my ownership group was content with squeaking into the playoffs each year with no real chance at the big prize, I'd be trying to figure out travel plans to go and punch them in the collective face.

Short version: hurrah for your accomplishments, but shouldn't you be asking for more?

Getting off the topic of Seattle now and forever - who's going to win the Super Bowl, you ask? Well, I'd imagine the trendy pick is probably Green Bay at this point, so I'm going to be flippant and say Pittsburgh. Mostly because if there's any justice in this universe, Rex Ryan will not be allowed to win a Super Bowl as a head coach, and I don't trust Jay Cutler enough to win two more games without imploding. So that leaves me just the one team left. I'm getting progressively less scientific about this stuff as I go along, huh?

[raitalin]

Have to agree with you there. You have no idea how much this pains me.
Let's talk about something else. This is starting to turn into the Bash the Hawks Show.
Who will win the Superbowl? My money is on Green Bay. With New England out of the picture, no team has a more dynamic offense than the Packers. And their defense is playing at a high level too. I'd say their only real weakness is special teams. How else do you explain a lineman getting a 71-yard return?

Good call. Obviously I think the Bears will win it, but I'm almost certain it will be the NFC team.

GB does have the most consistently productive offense among the remaining teams. I think the combination of home-field advantage and superior ST will bring home the game for the Bears if our defense maintains a high level of play.

On the AFC side I would be surprised if the Jets won, but they're a surprising team. I just don't think their offense is good enough to put them over the Steelers.

I think both AFC offenses will struggle against the NFC defenses. The Steelers have the best chance, but they're going to have to improve their play compared to the Raven's game.

[Traab]

I love my giants, I really do. I just think that eli is the giants worst enemy. When he is in gear, they are unstoppable. Their offense tears right through everyone and everything. But then eli starts throwing like a frigging idiot, tossing interceptions left and right, and basically throwing the game away. Its almost never the other team that beats the giants, its the giants beating themselves.

[Thrawn183]

Looks like I'm going to have to pull for the Jets. I am soooo happy they took down the patriots.

Edit: Quote: "Its almost never the other team that beats the giants, its the giants beating themselves."

I can remember a few years back when the giants would only lose after by-weeks and would get excessive celebration penalties every time they scored. They really are their own worst enemies most of the time.

[An Enemy Spy]

I love my giants, I really do. I just think that eli is the giants worst enemy. When he is in gear, they are unstoppable. Their offense tears right through everyone and everything. But then eli starts throwing like a frigging idiot, tossing interceptions left and right, and basically throwing the game away. Its almost never the other team that beats the giants, its the giants beating themselves.

And he forced a fumble on himself. That was hilarious.

[Dacia Brabant]

Getting your current players to believe they really do, as a team, have what it takes to win is worth more then any number of potential draft picks.

Proving that Pete Carroll is indeed the Kamina of football.

Ah, now I know why they lost. Instead of chanting "Who Dat We Dat," it should've been JUST WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE


Anyhow, while Green Bay does look great I don't think they'll be able to run the ball against Chicago, and Rex Ryan is bound to get run over by Karma, so I'm taking Da Bears and The Burg to the Super Bowl. I foresee a closely matched game between them, but with Chicago pulling out a late victory thanks to superior special teams play.

[KuReshtin]

I would actually say the morale boost for the Seahawks getting into and winning the first playoff game is a lot more valuable then getting 13-15th pick instead of 26th.
Confidence is one of the most valuable things for any team and its a lot harder to acquire then any player.

And there are a lot of examples of amazing players that didn't go in the first couple picks, that didn't go in the first round, even some that were never drafted at all. A theoretical person in the draft isn't really worth all that much because there are so many examples of high draft picks that did anything from completely bombing or were just mediocre. Its not often that one player has that big of an impact on a team... and there is no real way of knowing which ones will and it tends to take a few years anyway.

Getting your current players to believe they really do, as a team, have what it takes to win is worth more then any number of potential draft picks.

The morale boost of winning a playoff game might have a good impact on next year's team, but I still say that a higher draft pick gives you more options.
I didn't say that you'd necessarily need to pick anyone at the higher pick, it just gives you more options in terms of being able to trade the pick for more draft picks in the later rounds, or future picks, or proven players in positions where you need improvement.

I believe that it'll be a Steelers/Packers Super Bowl, and I'm going with the popular pick of the Packers to win it all. Their offense just seems to click right now, and they did trounce a dome team, in a dome, in a convincing win.

[Midnight Son]

Until the Super Bowl Shuffle dies a horrible, agonizing death, I will continue to laugh when the Bears get trounced one game before the Super Bowl or blown out in the Super Bowl. I detest that song and the team that spawned it.

[raitalin]

Ahem. 12 points is not a blowout. 35 points is a blowout.

[KuReshtin]

Until the Super Bowl Shuffle dies a horrible, agonizing death, I will continue to laugh when the Bears get trounced one game before the Super Bowl or blown out in the Super Bowl. I detest that song and the team that spawned it.

You guys over there have the Super Bowl Shuffle.

Over on this side of the pond, we usually get a few mentions each year of the 'Glasgow Diamonds Video' that was apparently spawned as a result of the Super Bowl Shuffle.

It's about as cringeworthy as the 'Shuffle'.

[raitalin]

McDaniels to the Rams as OC. Big move for them. The man knows football, and runs a great offense. Just wasn't honest to the fans or the organization about how much rebuilding he was planning on doing. Rams are 10-6 next year.

[Midnight Son]

McDaniels to the Rams as OC. Big move for them. The man knows football, and runs a great offense. Just wasn't honest to the fans or the organization about how much rebuilding he was planning on doing. Rams are 10-6 next year.

In their division, that's not saying much.

[An Enemy Spy]

I should have known this would happen. After all, the universe does exist for the sole purpose of pleasuring Ben Rothlisberger. Why does a dirtbag like him get to win superbowls and make millions of dollars? Why?
I am rooting so hard for Green Bay.

[Avilan the Grey]

I should have known this would happen. After all, the universe does exist for the sole purpose of pleasuring Ben Rothlisberger. Why does a dirtbag like him get to win superbowls and make millions of dollars? Why?
I am rooting so hard for Green Bay.

I like the Bears, but yesterday they obviously had burned out. Did they give 200% last week when they destroyed their opponent? Yesterday was just embarrassing (for being the Bears).

Not that I really mind, I was rooting for the Packers, but the game could have been so much more fun.

...So the Steelers won? I recorded the game last night and will watch it today.
Good, I was hoping for this... Two of my absolute favorite teams, to the point that I can't decide who I want to win.

[Trog]

I don't watch tv and don't have cable, even,so I rarely go out of my way to view a game but I keep my ear to the ground on the games and such when they happen. When we get this close though I have to see it so I spent yesterday screaming at the game just like my mom has always done ever since I was a little kid, and did again. Heck even my dad was yelling.

My parents are such die hard Packers fans it's ridiculous. My mom even had a proper shirt for the game of a kid in a packer helmet and shirt squatting over a bears helmet holding a roll of toiler paper - an old fav.

My dad's Packer den.

Spoiler

Show

That room is five times that size and everything in it looks small somehow. And that couch and chair need to go to the curb soon. I think he's getting a green couch or something to replace them.

Anyhow, not nearly as impressive as his bar which has all sorts of signed jerseys and such, imo. Those things on the shelf are collector's steins. That's about half of em. So there you go. The Superbowl poster I mentioned is on the big wall there at the left.

Anyway...

Go Pack Go!!!

[An Enemy Spy]

I like the Bears, but yesterday they obviously had burned out. Did they give 200% last week when they destroyed their opponent? Yesterday was just embarrassing (for being the Bears).

Not that I really mind, I was rooting for the Packers, but the game could have been so much more fun.

...So the Steelers won? I recorded the game last night and will watch it today.
Good, I was hoping for this... Two of my absolute favorite teams, to the point that I can't decide who I want to win.

Well the bears started to show some fight after Caleb Hanie came in. I hope this game gets him some recognition around the league. He looks way too good for third string. I think he could be a starter someday. That #2 QB was just plain terrible though.

[Joran]

Well the bears started to show some fight after Caleb Hanie came in. I hope this game gets him some recognition around the league. He looks way too good for third string. I think he could be a starter someday. That #2 QB was just plain terrible though.

Todd Collins. He saved the Redskins season one year, because of his intimate knowledge of Al Saunders' offense.

Supposedly Al Saunders and Mike Martz are from the same coaching tree, so I'd guess Mike Martz wanted to bring in Todd Collins to train Cutler in the offense, but why he was the second string QB after the performances he had in the regular season, I have no clue.

[CynicalAvocado]

i like the packers somewhat, but i'm positive the steelers are going to win. again.

[Ranger Mattos]

The Packers will win. I can feel it. I can feel it, coming in the air tonight, oh lord. I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh lord.

My dad's Packer den.

Spoiler

Show

That room is five times that size and everything in it looks small somehow. And that couch and chair need to go to the curb soon. I think he's getting a green couch or something to replace them.

Anyhow, not nearly as impressive as his bar which has all sorts of signed jerseys and such, imo. Those things on the shelf are collector's steins. That's about half of em. So there you go. The Superbowl poster I mentioned is on the big wall there at the left.

Anyway...

Go Pack Go!!!

Dang, that beats my dad's Packers den.

[Avilan the Grey]

Well the bears started to show some fight after Caleb Hanie came in. I hope this game gets him some recognition around the league. He looks way too good for third string. I think he could be a starter someday. That #2 QB was just plain terrible though.

I do hope he get to switch places with Todd Collins to begin with.

Personally I will be rooting for Packers, mostly because of their QB who impresses the hell out of me, plus he is FUN. And very physical for a QB too. Plus, you know, maniacs that wears cheese for hats. Beats that lousy towel every time!