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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Nov 2009

    Default Alternative Generic Spellcaster

    I like generic classes and I like spirit shamans' spells known quirk - basically, they're spontaneous casters, can cast about as many spells as a sorcerer, but have a lot less spells known. However, they can repick their spells known daily.

    Target tier is 1/2, probably 1 with the daily switching.

    Hit Die d4
    Base Save Bonuses One good save and two poor saves.
    Class Skills Choose any four skills as class skills, plus Craft, Knowledge (all), and Profession.
    Skill Points 2 + Int modifier (or four times this number at 1st level).
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency One simple weapon; no armor.
    Bonus Feats The spellcaster gets one bonus feat at 1st level, one at 5th level, and another one at every fifth class level thereafter (10th, 15th, and so on).

    Spellcasting
    A spellcaster learns and casts spells as a spirit shaman. She may select her spells from the cleric, druid, and sorcerer/wizard spell lists.
    A spellcaster must choose at 1st level whether to be an arcane spellcaster or a divine spellcaster. This choice affects the spells that she may learn what kinds of scrolls she can use. A divine spellcaster may select her spells from any spell list used by a class which learns 9th level divine spells (such as the cleric and druid spell lists). An arcane spellcaster may select her spells from any spell list used by a class which learns 9th level arcane spells. A spellcaster may designate Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma as the ability score that determines the highest-level spell she can learn or cast, the bonus spells she receives for having a high ability score, and the Difficulty Class of her spell's-saving throws.

    Spells Per Day
    Spoiler
    Show

    {table=head]Level|0th|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th
    1st|6|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    2nd|6|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    3rd|6|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    4th|6|2|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    5th|6|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
    6th|6|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
    7th|6|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-
    8th|6|4|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-
    9th|6|4|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-
    10th|6|4|4|3|2|2|-|-|-|-
    11th|6|5|4|3|3|2|1|-|-|-
    12th|6|5|4|4|3|2|2|-|-|-
    13th|6|5|5|4|3|3|2|1|-|-
    14th|6|6|5|4|4|3|2|2|-|-
    15th|6|6|5|5|4|3|3|2|1|-
    16th|6|6|6|5|4|4|3|2|2|-
    17th|6|6|6|5|5|4|3|3|2|1
    18th|6|6|6|6|5|4|4|3|2|2
    19th|6|6|6|6|5|5|4|3|3|2
    20th|6|6|6|6|6|5|4|4|3|2
    [/table]


    Spells Retrieved Per Day
    Spoiler
    Show

    {table=head]Level|0th|1st|2nd|4rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th
    1st|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    2nd|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    3rd|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    4th|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    5th|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
    6th|3|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
    7th|3|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-
    8th|3|3|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-
    9th|3|3|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-
    10th|3|3|3|3|3|2|-|-|-|-
    11th|3|3|3|3|3|2|1|-|-|-
    12th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|-|-|-
    13th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|1|-|-
    14th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|-|-
    15th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|1|-
    16th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|-
    17th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|1
    18th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2
    19th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2
    20th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3
    [/table]


    Anything obviously wrong? Balance comparisons?

    These aren't completely identical to the spirit shaman's spells per day/spells retrieved. I think it's a few fewer per day, a few more retrieved, actually.
    Last edited by sreservoir; 2010-11-27 at 09:20 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Dead_Jester's Avatar

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    Jun 2010

    Default Re: Alternative Generic Spellcaster

    they should probably be limited to one of the three great branches of casting, or divided between divine and arcane magic, because cherry picking from both everyday is extremely strong.

    Also, right now, this is strait up better than a standard wizard because they get more spells per day, and get the best of spontaneous and prepared spellcasting from 3 whole spell lists.
    The Age of Warrior, a ToB expansion.

    Credits to Ninjaman for old Death Jester avatar.
    Homebrew (feel free to PEACH)
    Base Classes:
    Fighter Fix, The Sublime Matador

    Disciplines:
    The Endless Play

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Default Re: Alternative Generic Spellcaster

    eh, standard generic casters already get to cherry-pick from the big three, although not daily, so I'm not too concerned about that.

    As to the spells per day, how does this table look?

    {table=head]Level|0th|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th
    1st|6|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    2nd|6|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    3rd|6|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    4th|6|2|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    5th|6|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
    6th|6|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
    7th|6|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-
    8th|6|4|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-
    9th|6|4|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-
    10th|6|4|4|3|2|2|-|-|-|-
    11th|6|5|4|3|3|2|1|-|-|-
    12th|6|5|4|4|3|2|2|-|-|-
    13th|6|5|5|4|3|3|2|1|-|-
    14th|6|6|5|4|4|3|2|2|-|-
    15th|6|6|5|5|4|3|3|2|1|-
    16th|6|6|6|5|4|4|3|2|2|-
    17th|6|6|6|5|5|4|3|3|2|1
    18th|6|6|6|6|5|4|4|3|2|2
    19th|6|6|6|6|5|5|4|3|3|2
    20th|6|6|6|6|6|5|4|4|3|2
    [/table]

    ...that's about the best I can do with it without screwing up the spell progression. At odd levels, this is one fewer spell of max-2; at evens, max-1 and max-3.

    I can do a bit it reducing the number of unique spells they can pick, though.

    {table=head]Level|0th|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th
    1st|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    2nd|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    3rd|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    4th|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    5th|3|2|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
    6th|3|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
    7th|3|3|2|2|1|-|-|-|-|-
    8th|3|3|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-
    9th|3|3|3|2|2|1|-|-|-|-
    10th|3|3|3|3|2|2|-|-|-|-
    11th|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|-|-|-
    12th|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|-|-|-
    13th|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|-|-
    14th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|-|-
    15th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|-
    16th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|-
    17th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1
    18th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2
    19th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2
    20th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2
    [/table]

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Alternative Generic Spellcaster

    Quote Originally Posted by sreservoir View Post
    eh, standard generic casters already get to cherry-pick from the big three, although not daily, so I'm not too concerned about that.
    Wait what? Standard casters can cherry-pick from all lists, without over-optimization?

    Didn't know...

    Hint: Archivist pays for every single spell he has.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thajocoth View Post
    The reason Pun-Pun doesn't work is because he doesn't have to. He can just sit around all day and let his wishes do the work for him.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Ashtagon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Alternative Generic Spellcaster

    Quote Originally Posted by ozgun92 View Post
    Wait what? Standard casters can cherry-pick from all lists, without over-optimization?
    Nope. Standard generic casters do that.

    It's in Unearthed Arcana and the SRD.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Dead_Jester's Avatar

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    Default Re: Alternative Generic Spellcaster

    Yes, but normal generic spellcasters only have access to 43 spells in their entire life, not the hundreds available out there. I mean, this isn't much stronger than a normal or specialist wizard, and could be considered weaker CoDzillas out there, but it is still much more versatile than all of those, which is the real problem here.
    The Age of Warrior, a ToB expansion.

    Credits to Ninjaman for old Death Jester avatar.
    Homebrew (feel free to PEACH)
    Base Classes:
    Fighter Fix, The Sublime Matador

    Disciplines:
    The Endless Play

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Alternative Generic Spellcaster

    mm, does sor/wiz alone match up to cleric and druid combined? (and then I threw in all the other full-caster classes. eh, those aren't too ridiculous, are they?)

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Alternative Generic Spellcaster

    Quote Originally Posted by sreservoir View Post
    mm, does sor/wiz alone match up to cleric and druid combined? (and then I threw in all the other full-caster classes. eh, those aren't too ridiculous, are they?)
    Wizard is Tier 1. So is Archivist.
    They seem to match up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thajocoth View Post
    The reason Pun-Pun doesn't work is because he doesn't have to. He can just sit around all day and let his wishes do the work for him.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Alternative Generic Spellcaster

    Quote Originally Posted by ozgun92 View Post
    Wizard is Tier 1. So is Archivist.
    They seem to match up.
    so the question is, how much is almost-spontaneous casting worth?

    I think they're all limited by having either weak or small spell lists, actually.

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