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    Default Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    So, I want to play a mad tinkerer type. The mundane experimenter with focus in Craft:mechanical.

    So what would be the best class options for this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Hm...

    Well. Artificers are the Mad Tinkerer class, but they're Eberron and Magical.

    So your best bet would probably be a Rogue with a heavy Craft Mechanical focus and ranks in disable device.

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    base class is up to you, they all have craft as a class skill. I belive Magic of Faerun has a PrC that's devoted to mechanical tinkering. Don't own the book though, so I can't tell you the name of it.
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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    So, I want to play a mad tinkerer type. The mundane experimenter with focus in Craft:mechanical.

    So what would be the best class options for this?
    Depends on what you want to make/tinker with. If you want to be making robots then there is the Effigist PRC for arcane casters that can create clockwork robots. Other robot options are to take a lot of craft:construct or play a cleric and use lots of animate object spells (shadowcasters get this too).

    If your talking about Crossbows or Siege Weapons I believe Rogue is your best choice (or Bard :P ).

    Finally there is magic items, which is a wizard thing.
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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Within core? Huh.

    You could be a caster with several crafting feats. As long as your DM will give you the downtime to work on stuff (or allow you to produce it on the road), you should have a lot of options. Craft Wonderous Item has a bunch of options to produce, and there are all kinds of uses for various crafted wands.

    If you're not looking at spellcasting, then it will rely on you and the DM making liberal use of the various crafting skills. Craft: Trapmaking, Disable Device, Knowledge: Architecture and engineering, Open Lock, and Use Magic Device (for magical items) come to mind as skills that would come in handy.

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Don't even really get much use out of craft: Trapmaking using only core without some significant homebrewing. :/ But yeah, it mostly depends on what you want to do other than have one of your max'd skills be craft: Mech
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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    How tight a restriction is "core?" Is it literally "PHB DMG MM1?" Or can we expand it to be "SRD" or even "SRD + WotC site?"

    Many people say "core only" to mean "We have no other books" but there's plenty of easily-overlooked material online.

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    I believe it is SRD, Though exceptions are sandstorm and the spell compendium. So SRD and sandstorm/spell compendium.

    I was thinking more rocket powered sand sleds than mechs though.

    Anyway, Using a port over of the craft mechanical skill from d20 modern, But I have to RP the experimental process Starting with a late iron age early Renaissance age technology.

    I have to expend a similar amount of resources to develop and build something that it would take to get the closest magic item equivalent.

    And finally nothing that is a total gamebreaker.

    So, it looks like rogue with high intelligence is my best bet. So aside from skill focus is there anything I'm missing that would help out on building my fleet of airships and rocket powered sand sleds.
    Last edited by druid91; 2010-11-27 at 11:07 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    I might get lambasted for saying this, but I think crafting feats on a wizard would work really well. Magic is part of the way the world works, so a wizard making magic items is a mechanic in the same way an engineer is on this world. "Technology" is using any type of applied knowledge to increase quality of life; a magic set of armor is technology. A rocket powered sled? You could strap a sand bottle to one, or use a combination of levitate and battering ram-like effects.

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Quote Originally Posted by hiryuu View Post
    I might get lambasted for saying this, but I think crafting feats on a wizard would work really well. Magic is part of the way the world works, so a wizard making magic items is a mechanic in the same way an engineer is on this world. "Technology" is using any type of applied knowledge to increase quality of life; a magic set of armor is technology. A rocket powered sled? You could strap a sand bottle to one, or use a combination of levitate and battering ram-like effects.
    Yes but that doesn't fit. He is some kid who dislikes magic-users in general and more specifically the clergy.

    He wants to find more reliable ways to do things. I would feel like I was cheating if I mainly used magic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Does not work.

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tael View Post
    Does not work.
    Why? It seems like it will work to me. It would be like a mundane artificer.

    I mean A few rulings will need to be made. But better new things be made up than tired old "Magic, magic does everything." Simply because that's what got the most attention.
    Last edited by druid91; 2010-11-27 at 03:34 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

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    Note to self: Never get involved in an ethics thread again...Especially if I'm defending the empire.

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Because the standard setting isn't technologically advanced enough to have rocket powered anything. Magic does everything because it's the only available option. Anything more technologically advanced than the firearms in the DMG is homebrew, which isn't SRD.
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    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    It's one of D&D 3.5's main flaws: Magic does everything better. It doesn't matter how much of a legendary swordsmith you are; if you aren't at least a 5th-level caster, you're limited to a +1 bonus to attack on your masterpiece of a weapon.

    What's even worse is that by RAW it takes forever for mundane craftsmen to be able to make anything of value since the time to craft is proportional to its cost. This leads to ridiculous things like mithral armor taking forever to craft since it's more expensive, never mind the fact that the cost is not because mithral is difficult to work but rather that it's rarer than steel.

    Ask your DM if he's willing to houserule the crafting system so your master craftsman can actually craft equipment that's useful to adventurers. Perhaps change the prerequisite of the crafting feats to ranks in Craft so that the legendary swordsmith who is not a wizard can actually forge the Ultimate Sword of Ultimate Destiny +5?

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    That's where the MSRD picks up.

    The dungeon masters guide even says IIRC that if you want more technology go get d20 modern, It has technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Silver View Post
    It's one of D&D 3.5's main flaws: Magic does everything better. It doesn't matter how much of a legendary swordsmith you are; if you aren't at least a 5th-level caster, you're limited to a +1 bonus to attack on your masterpiece of a weapon.

    What's even worse is that by RAW it takes forever for mundane craftsmen to be able to make anything of value since the time to craft is proportional to its cost. This leads to ridiculous things like mithral armor taking forever to craft since it's more expensive, never mind the fact that the cost is not because mithral is difficult to work but rather that it's rarer than steel.

    Ask your DM if he's willing to houserule the crafting system so your master craftsman can actually craft equipment that's useful to adventurers. Perhaps change the prerequisite of the crafting feats to ranks in Craft so that the legendary swordsmith who is not a wizard can actually forge the Ultimate Sword of Ultimate Destiny +5?
    But then you have a mundane swordsmith who can forge a sword that bursts into magical flames. How does that make sense. Speeding up crafting can be done by upping the DC.
    Last edited by druid91; 2010-11-27 at 03:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    That's where the MSRD picks up.

    The dungeon masters guide even says IIRC that if you want more technology go get d20 modern, It has technology.
    Yeah, but that's not core.

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    d20 Modern and 3.5 are also balanced much differently, due to being different systems. Material will require considerable adaptation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Hmm maybe I'm odd. But I always considered modern just a variant on D&D.

    I mean most of the stuff could be used with just a little tweaking.

    Also it has an Easily available SRD thus I consider it core. Just like psionics.
    Last edited by druid91; 2010-11-27 at 03:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

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    Note to self: Never get involved in an ethics thread again...Especially if I'm defending the empire.

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Pathfinder is also easily available online, that doesn't make it core. The rules for Magic the Gathering are also online, and they're certainly not core.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Pathfinder is also easily available online, that doesn't make it core. The rules for Magic the Gathering are also online, and they're certainly not core.
    Yes, but neither of them are specifically mentioned in the DMs guide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    Yes, but neither of them are specifically mentioned in the DMs guide.
    Dude, face it man. You said "Core" and we all thought "d20SRD". Not "d20SRD+d20 Modern+other stuff". It's a translation error.

    Also, even WITH the d20 Modern SRD in play, you can't do all that much beyond making guns, which since they have absolutely no support anywhere, that's kinda difficult to handle as well (also, no creation rules). You're going to have to homebrew on this one man, them's the facts of the situation.

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Your probably right.

    But that was implied from the very start. I was asking for the best way to get a massive craft skill modifier.

    That way I could build things. and run people over with Rocket-tanks. Imagine what a super-genius with his mind uncorrupted by magic could do?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

    Torumekian knight Avatar by Licoot.

    Note to self: Never get involved in an ethics thread again...Especially if I'm defending the empire.

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    That's where the MSRD picks up.

    The dungeon masters guide even says IIRC that if you want more technology go get d20 modern, It has technology.


    But then you have a mundane swordsmith who can forge a sword that bursts into magical flames. How does that make sense. Speeding up crafting can be done by upping the DC.
    The high cost of magic items includes exotic materials that the swordsmith uses to create the sword of fire. Perhaps he can use metal exposed to the sun for 100 days by placing it in a specific part of the world (think Norway) where the sun shines for at least 100 days.

    Or perhaps the PCs can hunt down a creature of fire, like a phoenix, and bring back a feather or three to craft into a flaming sword? Or perhaps a shard of ice from the magnetic north/south pole for a sword of ice?

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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Assuming by "core" you mean "PH, MM and DMG"

    I'd say your best start for a class like this would be the rogue; high number of skill points, and already has some technologically oriented skills. Bard is also a good choice, though you wind up sacrificing the Bardic Knowledge if you want to keep the flavor. Talk to your DM about alchemy, and see if he requires that you be a spellcaster to use it and, if he does, see if he'll let a gnome get away with it, anyway; if not, you might look at a level of Bard... less loss of skill points, gives you knowledge skills, and you get a couple cantrips (this guy will want Mending).

    From there, load up on Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering and a variety of Craft skills; you might also want Profession: Tinker or Profession: Engineer (while both technically deal with crafty-type things, I think they're a bit better represented by Professions than straight up crafts). The crafting rules are NOT nice to adventuring crafters, but ask your DM how far you can push things. Craft: Blacksmithing is probably a no-brainer. Craft: Clockwork? Probably a harder sell, especially once you start trying to turn out clanks.
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    Default Re: Best way to represent a mechanic within core?

    Not advanced enough to have rocket powered anything?

    ....

    What about my Effigy Wyvern with an internal Decanter of Endless Water, pointed to go through a Riverine chamber that has a permanent internal Wall of Fire effect, and out a nozzle (at the tip of the TAIL! ugh...), as steam?

    I think someone did the numbers once, and that, on Geyser, gives you thrust something like the Space Shuttle, right?? And that TOTALLY counts as a rocket...
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2010-11-28 at 04:40 AM.

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