Brainstorm for Psionic Tricks, Tactics, and Combos Handbook

[sreservoir]

can you apply the same metapsi twice? I'd have guessed no.

[Psyren]

can you apply the same metapsi twice? I'd have guessed no.

It's specifically stated for metamagic feats (in RC) but not metapsionic ones. I doubt it's intended but haven't found a specific prohibition.

mitigate suffering, however, should work, yes? sure, someone else would have to have it, but.

No, it's the exact same problem - you're still taking the ability damage, you're merely covering it up with a temporary boost (10 minutes in this case.)

The issue is that ability damage stacks, so every time you do this the penalties accrue more and more.

[sreservoir]

No, it's the exact same problem - you're still taking the ability damage, you're merely covering it up with a temporary boost (10 minutes in this case.)

The issue is that ability damage stacks, so every time you do this the penalties accrue more and more.

the thing is, mitigate suffering doesn't give a boost; it gives "temporary ability points" -- exact words -- which, afaict, aren't actually defined in rules text.

[Psyren]

the thing is, mitigate suffering doesn't give a boost; it gives "temporary ability points" -- exact words -- which, afaict, aren't actually defined in rules text.

The ability itself tells you what happens. CC pg. 61:

"These ability points can be applied to any single damaged ability, raising it to a maximum of its starting score. Temporary ability points granted in this way disappear after 10 minutes, returning the subject to its previous damaged state unless some other effect restores the lost ability points first."

In other words, the ability points you burn for Body Fuel stay gone - and the more you Body Fuel, the deeper in the hole you get.

And because the ability burn lasts much longer than MS does, you have to replenish yourself every 10 minutes once your score gets low.

[sreservoir]

The ability itself tells you what happens. CC pg. 61:

"These ability points can be applied to any single damaged ability, raising it to a maximum of its starting score. Temporary ability points granted in this way disappear after 10 minutes, returning the subject to its previous damaged state unless some other effect restores the lost ability points first."

In other words, the ability points you burn for Body Fuel stay gone - and the more you Body Fuel, the deeper in the hole you get.

And because the ability burn lasts much longer than MS does, you have to replenish yourself every 10 minutes once your score gets low.

the target returns to its "previous damaged state", though, so you should be returning to the state of not having taken damage from body fueling through your temporary ability points, because that happened after mitigate suffering's effect, and is therefore not part of the previous state.

[Psyren]

the target returns to its "previous damaged state", though, so you should be returning to the state of not having taken damage from body fueling through your temporary ability points, because that happened after mitigate suffering's effect, and is therefore not part of the previous state.

The only way to accomplish that reading would be to Mitigate Suffering before using Body Fuel, and you would get no temporary points for doing that because Mitigate Suffering is capped by your undamaged ability scores.

[sreservoir]

The only way to accomplish that reading would be to Mitigate Suffering before using Body Fuel, and you would get no temporary points for doing that because Mitigate Suffering is capped by your undamaged ability scores.

... yes.

as I was saying, body fuel once, then repeatedly mitigate and body fuel.

one point from each score is a minor penalty, especially since you can top up by just mitigating again as long as you're not in combat. also a use for odd ability scores, which is nice.

[Psyren]

You return to your damaged state, and damage again. Ability damage stacks.

You'll gain enough of a buffer to function, but if it wears off you're toast.

[sreservoir]

You return to your damaged state, and damage again. Ability damage stacks.

You'll gain enough of a buffer to function, but if it wears off you're toast.

no, because since you're mitigating between each use of body fuel, you repeatedly return to the -1/-1/-1 state.

[Psyren]

no, because since you're mitigating between each use of body fuel, you repeatedly return to the -1/-1/-1 state.

That's like trying to heal Overchannel damage by manifesting Vigor. You're not actually restoring your ability scores (which you couldn't anyway, as they can't be magically healed) therefore you're actually going -1/-2/-3. It's just that you get to act as though you're at 0/0/0 for all purposes.

The feat flat out says that the ability damage isn't healed, why is this hard to understand?

[Cor1]

can you apply the same metapsi twice? I'd have guessed no.

It's specifically stated for metamagic feats (in RC) but not metapsionic ones. I doubt it's intended but haven't found a specific prohibition.

I fixed it so that it doesn't need stacking two metapsionics:

Metapowered Twin BP with Torc of Power Preservation :
Augmented : 2+4+3 = spend 9pp to regain (2+2)*2 = 8
Augmented : 2+4+6 = spend 12pp to regain (2+2+2)*2 = 12
Augmented : 2+4+9 = spend 15pp to regain for (2+2+2+2)*2 = 16
Augmented : 2+4+12 = spend 18pp to regain (2+2+2+2+2)*2 = 20
Augmented : 2+4+15 = spend 21pp to regain (2+2+2+2+2+2)*2 = 24

May not seem that much, but this must be usable at level 16. With Overchannel, it can be augmented to 18 for 3d8 dmg (and if you don't have a second focus to expend for Talented, then Twin True Metabolism takes care of that nicely. Fun Fact : Since it just heals you for every attack, nothing stacks, it just applies twice.)


It's much less efficient than using Incarnum, but I was specifically trying to avoid it for various reasons. Earth Power would be cheaper, too, but two feats was too much for this build, that I will probably post here as soon as it's finished enough.

That's like trying to heal Overchannel damage by manifesting Vigor.
---snip

Actually, why wouldn't it work if you manifest Vigor *before* you take Overchannel damage? (I'm agreeing that Body Fuel/Mitigate doesn't work, mind you. I've been reading those exact rules full-time for the last two days.)

[TroubleBrewing]

This has nothing to do with the current discussion, but in the actual breakdown of how each trick is performed on page one, could we get some kind of clarification as to what each part of the trick is?

Color coding isn't a bad choice. Blue for feats, red for powers, green for items, perhaps? I'd be happy to PM the OP with a list of color-coded stuff, if the work would be prohibitive.

[Tenno Seremel]

This light green is very hard to read…

[TroubleBrewing]

Drat. I'm colorblind, so I just went with three obvious colors. This any better?

[Tenno Seremel]

Well, at least it's visible :} Maybe this, darker one (#060)

[Rubik]

You can use Human Heritage to qualify for Tiny von BigMcLargeHuge.

[Cor1]

New trick! (I hope)

Chain of Psicrystals

Starting level : 3, 1 with flaws

Psicrystals gain HD as the same rate as you do. As intelligent constructs, they gain feats. This can be used in a number of ways.

Take Psicrystal Affinity at some point. Choose your psicrystal's first feat as Wild Talent, give it Synchronicity as known power for giggles. Since it shares the effects of its powers with you, this is better than good.

Now when you hit lvl 3, your psicrystal gains a second feat. Give it Psicrystal Affinity. Take, of course, Psicrystal containment, yourself. The second 'cristal takes Psionic Meditation, so that it can focus itself. Later you'll learn Feat leech and reformat yourself to forget your own Meditation feat.

This is T.O., and pretty useless by that point. But this trick enables crazy shenanigans later. Metapower Linked Bestow Power cast through your psicrystal to yourself inside an affinity field charges them full. They can have Practiced Manifester to bump their manifester levels, so they can store more pp. Then you can have them manifest from your powers known.

If you chain them enough, you can get back more feats than you invested, so it breaks the feats/level limits at some point.

Now share the effect of Solicit Psicrystal with all of them. You just multiplied the amount of physical actions you can take in a round by however many crystals you have. Now notice that Psicrystals use your skill list, so they can use your Skill Tricks. Swift Concentration means that each of them uses its swift to make your body take a full round of physical actions. You can still manifest powers, and nothing prevents you from Twinning Schism. It duplicates the effect of the power, you simply gain two supplemental minds that can each manifest a power that can be cast in a standard action, at your ML-6.

Now, notice that if you share with your psicrystals the effect of the Feat Leech power you manifest on them, it gives them their feats back. So they can use all the metapsionics you collected on all the powers you all collectively know, at Practiced Manifester levels, which makes it ML 5. Spam augmented, possibly overchanneled, metapsionified Amethyst Burst/Crystalstorm? Can do. Also, they can't fail the Psicraft check, since they use your skill list. And since they focus themselves, they can negate Overchannel damage with Talented.

And if you manifest Schism and Fission, you can share the cloning effects with your psicrystals. So many actions... Who needs Synchronicity now? Oh, right, you, your clone and your pet rock army in their Affinity Field.

The action economy is now something that happens to other people.

[Gotterdammerung]

Most of the tricks involving Bestow Power to gain infinite power points are used incorrectly. The text of Bestow power specifically states that you are linking your mind to another mind, and therefore you can't simply target yourself with the power. You also can't use schism to split yourself in two and then use Bestow Power on yourself because schism has some very specific text about the subject. That doesn't mean that you can't use Bestow Power to gain infinite power points. You can use it between 2 psions. You can gain access to this tag team partner through Thrall herd. Or you can wait til lvl 15 and use your psicrystal. Channel Power will allow you to use bestow power on yourself. You spend the power points but the power originates from the psicrystal as if the psicrystal cast it. This means your psicrystal links its mind to your mind.

Another misconception I am seeing. Midnight Augmentation only reduces the power point cost to augment. It does not reduce the final cost of the power. If a power said "augment 3: for every 3 power points you spend X happens.", then midnight augmentation with 1 essentia invested in it would change that statement to "augment 2: for every 2 power points you spend X happens."

A linked power syncro+ bestow power with metapower would cost 3 power points to cast. 1+ metapsionic cost of 4 (1+3) - 2 from metapower.


Side Note: I don't see any reason why you couldn't pick the same power twice for "Linked power" and use Synchronicity linked to synchronicity with metapower for a total power point cost of 1. (1+ metacost 2 (1+1)- 2 meta power reduction). Netting 2 standard actions for the cost of 1 PP and 1 standard. With infinite power points this would essentially mean as many standard actions as you want on your next turn.

Step 1: 1 Standard use link to give yourself 1 readied action this turn and one next turn.

Step 2: Use your readied this turn to cast the link again and gain 1 readied action this turn and one next turn (total 2 free readied actions next turn).

Step 3:Repeat step 2 for +1 turns next turn. Cost 1 power point each repeat. Turn limit = to your power point limit.

Once you have a desired number of turns built up you can take your readied action this turn and do something with it then end your turn. (I recommend using the power that makes you invulnerable for a turn to ensure you make it to your next nova turn.


Midnight augmentation linked to bestow power with 2 essentia in it will allow you to augment bestow power to give more power points than you spend once you reach manifester lvl 6.

But as stated above, you need a tag team partner.

[Rubik]

New trick! (I hope)

Chain of Psicrystals

Starting level : 3, 1 with flaws

Psicrystals gain HD as the same rate as you do. As intelligent constructs, they gain feats. This can be used in a number of ways.

Take Psicrystal Affinity at some point. Choose your psicrystal's first feat as Wild Talent, give it Synchronicity as known power for giggles. Since it shares the effects of its powers with you, this is better than good.

Wild Talent (I think you mean Hidden Talent) doesn't give you an actual manifester level, so your psicrystal can't take feats that require a manifester level.

However, psicrystals can qualify for Leadership, granting them a follower (make it a manifester with a psicrystal with Leadership). Voila.

[Cor1]

Step 1: 1 Standard use link to give yourself 1 readied action this turn and one next turn.

Step 2: Use your readied this turn to cast the link again and gain 1 readied action this turn and one next turn (total 2 free readied actions next turn).

Step 3:Repeat step 2 for +1 turns next turn. Cost 1 power point each repeat. Turn limit = to your power point limit.

That does not work. Re-read Linked Power : it goes off in your next ROUND, not in your next action. You can't do that in a round.
Also, notice that Linked Power needs you to expend a psionic focus. How do you get infinite foci?

Wild Talent (I think you mean Hidden Talent) doesn't give you an actual manifester level, so your psicrystal can't take feats that require a manifester level.

However, psicrystals can qualify for Leadership, granting them a follower (make it a manifester with a psicrystal with Leadership). Voila.

Wild Talent, not Hidden Talent, gives your Psicrystal one level of manifester. (Edit : this is wrong. It's the other way around.)
You'll find it on p67 of the Expanded Psionics Handbook. (Edit : This is right. About Hidden Talent, I mean. Sorry.)

I use this precisely in a campaign where we're barred both Leadership and Thrallherd.

[Cieyrin]

That does not work. Re-read Linked Power : it goes off in your next ROUND, not in your next action. You can't do that in a round.
Also, notice that Linked Power needs you to expend a psionic focus. How do you get infinite foci?

I would guess the Ardent ACF, though I would specify that.

Wild Talent, not Hidden Talent, gives your Psicrystal one level of manifester. You'll find it on p67 of the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

I use this precisely in a campaign where we're barred both Leadership and Thrallherd.

Where does Wild Talent say that?

Your mind wakes to a previously unrealized talent for psionics.

Benefit
Your latent power of psionics flares to life, conferring upon you the designation of a psionic character. As a psionic character, you gain a reserve of 2 power points and can take psionic feats, metapsionic feats, and psionic item creation feats. You do not, however, gain the ability to manifest powers simply by virtue of having this feat.

I don't see anything that says you have a ML, just that you have a reserve and that you're now psionic, thus you can take psionic feats.

[Cor1]

How do you get infinite foci?

I would guess the Ardent ACF, though I would specify that.

No Ardent mantle gives Synchronicity. Yeah, Substitute Powers ACF, but that requires DM fiat. Now if you can get it, that's an infinite loop indeed. Even my DM isn't crazy enough.

Also, I'm not sure you can have several prepared actions coming up in a round. Is there any sort of official ruling on that?

Where does Wild Talent say that?

I don't see anything that says you have a ML, just that you have a reserve and that you're now psionic, thus you can take psionic feats.

Sorry, mixed them up. Now my face is red.

Seriously, open your XPH pg 67, it's right there. I'd copy it verbatim, but I dunno whether I can do that in a respectable forum, so here goes the paraphrase:

Hidden Talent can be taken at first level only, makes you a psionic characters that has a reserve of 2 pp, can take psionic/metapsionic/psionic crafting feats and knows one first-level power, that you can manifest if your Cha is at least 11, with a DC = 11+Cha mod; this becomes a bonus power known if you take manifesting class level(s). It is not added to manifester levels gained by classes, but the 2pp are added to your class reserve.

It's the better version of Wild Talent. It's even noted as such on the page.

There is one caveat and a half : it is not an actual manifester level, and Practiced Manifester has no class to be applied to. I'd argue that they are still psionic creatures who can manifest a power, and as such, their Hit Dice count as monster class level equivalents, so it does up their manifester level by up to 4, for the powers they can get access to, like all of yours, they can manifest them as long as their ML gets high enough. Vigor them up and get them to Overchannel, voilà, your psicrystal has ML 7 (arguably, 8) and can manifest your 4th-level powers.
(And if your psicrystals focus themselves, which, as psionic creatures, they can, then with Talented they can expend their own foci to take no damage from Overchannel for power levels 1-3.)

Notice that they'll need a Wis mod of however many feats you want them to share with you, but it could be argued that they simply share the result of the Feat Leech you cast on youself through your first psicrystal, and since it's manifested from it, it can share the effects with its own psicrystal. Also a Cha rating of at least 14 to be able to manifest your powers. Sharing the effects of Animal Affinity with them takes care of that nicely, though.

Also, they gain ability score increases with their HDs. Inherent bonuses to abilities are always nice.

[Gotterdammerung]

That does not work. Re-read Linked Power : it goes off in your next ROUND, not in your next action. You can't do that in a round.

Ok I guess i will try to explain it better. If you weren't using linked power at all, you could cast synchro then used the readied action to cast synchro then use the readied action to cast synchro, ect ect. If you link it with link power, every time you cast synchro in this turn, you get a readied action for this turn and next turn. you can keep using the ones from this turn to cast more linked synchro's thus creating extra readied actions in your next turn.

Also, notice that Linked Power needs you to expend a psionic focus. How do you get infinite foci?

I was thinking ardent ACF with substituting Synchro. But your right that takes some DM work.

[Cor1]

I'd like to request a clarification to the Feat Battery Crystal trick :

If you cast Feat Leech on yourself through your psicrystal, while sharing the effects (that is, both leeching and gaining) with your psicrystal, then your crystal gains your feats, you get its feats, and you re-gain yours while it regains its own.

And since it's a second-level power, by the time you get Affinity Field you can broadcast both effects to your second crystal, getting even more feats. Or to the other PCs, but by that point your DM cries.

Also, new trick :

1. Manifest Affinity Field
2. Share it with your pet rock = 2 affinity fields for the price of one
3. Target yourself with lvl1-3 powers, ridiculously augmented
4. Share them with the crystal : they're broadcast twice.

Nice for Vigor. And Inertial Armor, Biofeedback and low-lvl healing powers, or even offensive ones.

Example : Manifest Charm Person on yourself through the crystal, while sharing it with the crystal, then have the crystal (from Hidden Talent or something) manifest it on you : every creature in range has to pass three saving throws. It's like a cheaper Chain+Twin Power! Only for low-level spells, but you'd need shenanigans to manifest Twin+Chained high-level powers anyway (spend two foci and +12pp). Twin True Metabolism, share it, then manifest shared damaging powers on yourself that you'll both heal* inside this round. Boom!

Yes, I love to manifest powers on my PC through its pet rock. When I made that "biotech psionic machine" Elan Psion build, I knew very well what I was doing, but not exactly to what insane degree it's actually efficient.

* : Psicrystals can normally not be healed, only repaired, but I think that sharing the effects of healing powers with it would still give it back hit points. Your take?

[Rubik]

I'd like to request a clarification to the Feat Battery Crystal trick :

If you cast Feat Leech on yourself through your psicrystal, while sharing the effects (that is, both leeching and gaining) with your psicrystal, then your crystal gains your feats, you get its feats, and you re-gain yours while it regains its own.

And since it's a second-level power, by the time you get Affinity Field you can broadcast both effects to your second crystal, getting even more feats. Or to the other PCs, but by that point your DM cries.

Also, new trick :

1. Manifest Affinity Field
2. Share it with your pet rock = 2 affinity fields for the price of one
3. Target yourself with lvl1-3 powers, ridiculously augmented
4. Share them with the crystal : they're broadcast twice.

Nice for Vigor. And Inertial Armor, Biofeedback and low-lvl healing powers, or even offensive ones.

Example : Manifest Charm Person on yourself through the crystal, while sharing it with the crystal, then have the crystal (from Hidden Talent or something) manifest it on you : every creature in range has to pass three saving throws. It's like a cheaper Chain+Twin Power! Only for low-level spells, but you'd need shenanigans to manifest Twin+Chained high-level powers anyway (spend two foci and +12pp). Twin True Metabolism, share it, then manifest shared damaging powers on yourself that you'll both heal* inside this round. Boom!

Yes, I love to manifest powers on my PC through its pet rock. When I made that "biotech psionic machine" Elan Psion build, I knew very well what I was doing, but not exactly to what insane degree it's actually efficient.

* : Psicrystals can normally not be healed, only repaired, but I think that sharing the effects of healing powers with it would still give it back hit points. Your take?

Note that doing these things forces the powers to overlap, rather than stacking, so Inertial Armor wouldn't give you infinite AC, but instead makes dispels impossible (since there're infinite iterations of Inertial Armor to dispel); however using Disjunction will get rid of every iteration available.

However, Vigor specifically says that remanifesting it just refreshes the temp hp you have, rather than having overlapping temp hp (though other sources of temp hp do indeed stack with it).

[Cor1]

Note that doing these things forces the powers to overlap, rather than stacking, so Inertial Armor wouldn't give you infinite AC, but instead makes dispels impossible (since there're infinite iterations of Inertial Armor to dispel); however using Disjunction will get rid of every iteration available.

However, Vigor specifically says that remanifesting it just refreshes the temp hp you have, rather than having overlapping temp hp (though other sources of temp hp do indeed stack with it).

Oh, I didn't even forget; however, I should have explained it better : it's to chain them for free on erryone, not to stack the effects. For the buffs, at least. I meant "vigor on everyone", not "vigor three times on each".

I'm curious as to how you deduced that the buffs would take effect an infinite number of times. I count once from your AF, once from the Crystal's AF (by shared power), and once by the Crystal manifesting it from its own field. It's not bouncing back... oh, sorry. Yes, yes it is, because it's shared back to you, in the AF, so it goes back again to the other AF, ad infinitum...

Now to really break your DM's brain : From your AF, manifest shared Synchronicity linked to Synchronicity, then have your crystal cast it once from your known powers, but augmented, from its own Field.

Next round, you have to invent new rules to resolve actions, because anyone, friend or foe, can recursively react to anything by manifesting twice and also doing any standard action in reaction to anything else.

[Cor1]

I know we're not supposed to double-post, but I'd like this new trick to be read.


One for Erudites:

1. Learn Soul Crystal.
2. Manifest Soul Crystal, enclosing the Soul Crystal power and enough pp to manifest it twice.
3. Use the Soul Crystal of Soul Crystal to recreate a Soul Crystal of Soul Crystal, so you can repeat the trick.
4. Use the Soul Crystal of Soul Crystal to create a Soul Crystal of whatever power you want to manifest without it counting towards your Unique Powers per Day limit.

inb4 obvious misunderstanding waiting to happen : The only power you actually manifest, that count towards your Unique Powers per Day limit, is Soul Crystal.

Use any recharge method and if you're a Spell-to-power variant : Triple 9s, all day, erry day, all of them.

[Psyren]

I already pointed out Erudite + Soul Crystal actually.

Don't forget that you can even hand the crystals out to your party members, allowing them to freely manifest from your repertoire as well. (Including personal-range powers.)

[Cor1]

Oh I'm so sorry. I thought the only trick we had for that was the Erudite Metaconcert.

... and the Erudite's Crystalline Grimoire Trick isn't in the first post.


Other use for the Soul Crystal Grimoire:

So you're a Psion, but you'd like to exchange known powers for cheaper than 150xp every three? Here's what you do.

1. Get a bag
2. Manifest Quintessence enough to fill its bottom with the stuff (it puts the limited duration Soul Crystals in temporal stasis)
3. Manifest Soul Crystal of Soul Crystal, transfer with enough pp in it to cast it several times
4. Give one Soul Crystal of Soul Crystal to your favourite Spell-to-Power Erudite, so that he puts each of his known powers inside Soul Crystals
5. Put them in the bag of temporal stasis. You now have every power and spell in the game in your bag, ready to be manifested.
6. To use them without deleting them from your spellbook-powerbag, use a Soul Crystal of Soul Crystal in one hand, a Soul Crystal of Whatever in the other hand, then create one more Soul Crystal of Whatever. The condition is that you can manifest the power, and it's right there in your hand - now dodge the XPH and MoI to the head.

The Bag of Crystals trick makes any character into a better Psionic than any Psionic class.

[Psyren]

Oh I'm so sorry. I thought the only trick we had for that was the Erudite Metaconcert.

... and the Erudite's Crystalline Grimoire Trick isn't in the first post.

Yeah, no worries - KA hasn't updated it with mine yet either.