Goblins: Tactical RPG

[Kensen]

I've been thinking of designing another goblin game, similar to Goblins: the Exodus, but focusing on individual goblins rather than goblin families. I'll recycle a lot of the flavor and some of the mechanics from the earlier system, but I'll add a lot of detail and options for character development.

Here's the first draft of my design specification:

Design goals
* The primary objective in the game is survival: gathering resources (hunting, fishing, woodcutting, etc.) and crafting tools (bows, axes, spears, traps, poisons, etc.). The game also features a lot of tactical combat. The game is by no means a full-fledged RPG, but roleplaying is encouraged.
* A campaign consists of a number of scenarios. Each scenario features a battle grid and one or more problems the goblins must solve. The placement of campfires, fortifications, traps and sentries is important.
* Tactical combat must be fast and simple because the game is played on message boards. Players can write "scripts" for their goblins that determine how they react in certain situations, thus lessening the amount of interaction and making combat faster. Battle grids shall be used. The combat system rewards planning and tactical thinking, but it is possible (if more difficult) to win battles with little or no planning.
* The two main resource types are food and wood. Both are essential for survival. Wood is obtained by chopping down trees with axes. Food is obtained by killing animals and monsters. Eating certain types of food may have advantageous or disadvantageous effects.
* Crafting materials are more detailed than in most games, including wood, sinew, bone, horn, flint, leather, fur, etc. Some materials are harder to work with, but for example, a flint arrowhead is more durable and has a better armor piercing value than a bone tip. Crafting materials affect the tools' properties in a realistic fashion. For example, an arrow fletched with feathers from a slain bird has better accuracy and range than an arrow with no fletching. Crafting materials obtained from rare or magical creatures make it possible to craft even better weapons.
* Perks (similar to feats in D&D) determine how skilled a character is at something. There are perk trees for different tools and actions. There are synergies between perks from the same perk trees and sometimes between similar perks from different perk trees. For example, it costs one xp less for a goblin with the Axe Thrower perk to obtain the Spear Thrower perk. As the goblins gain experience, they can pick more perks.
* There are at least three basic types of goblins: big, smart and fast. Each type grants a bonus on actions. For example, a big goblin can use more powerful bows, a fast goblin is a better skirmisher, and a smart goblin has more crafting options (traps, poisons, better arrows).
* All perks, materials, tools, weapons, etc. should have a distinctive goblin flavor to them.

Anyway, please comment and ask questions if you have any.

In the coming weeks, I'll start fleshing out the actual game mechanics. All kinds of input is appreciated.

[The Bookworm]

Looks great to me! I'm eager to play already!

[Kuma Da]

I was actually going to suggest you do this when exodus ended.

I'm certainly happy to help.

[Morty]

Hmmm. So, basically, it's like Goblins: the Exodus but more complex. I like what I see here so far.

[Cieyrin]

After having a read through the Exodus so far and looking at what you're doing for Goblins 2: The Revival of Gobenheim, it almost feels to me like Final Fantasy Tactics with Goblins, though with crafting thrown in. I approve heartily, as FFT is still an awesome game after all these years.

For the crafting bits, I assume it'll be a tad bit more complicated than the difference between normal and awesome, like in Exodus, like starting with a base tool which provides +1 to an action and then adding stuff to them to make them specifically better, either in general or in certain situations, yeah? Would it be a slot based system for the tools, like for arrows having a space for the head, fletching and shaft?

As for combat itself, I assume to keep it quick, you'd keep it to simply to comparisons of combat strength, with the victor either killing or knocking out their opponent, depending on what weapon your using. Maybe splitting Combat Strength to Attack and Defense values would be in order, if you want to further complicate things and add an armor mechanic.

Just a few things that have come to mind. I may be back with more.

[Kensen]

Thanks for the input!

Yes, tools/weapons are going to be more complicated, with a slot based system. A few examples:

An arrow in its simplest form is a straight, sharpened wooden stick. It's relatively easy and fast to craft, but its damage, armor piercing and range values are poor. However, if you have the right materials you can pimp the arrow.

• If you have feathers (i.e. you've killed a bird) you can increase the range because fletching stabilizes the flight or the arrow.
• If you have bone or flint, you can craft arrowheads. Flint is more difficult to work into arrowheads, but its armor piercing value is a lot better than that of a bone tip.
• Then there is bronze and iron. Their damage and armor piercing values are even better. The goblins don't know how to mine metals, so they are considered superior materials.
• And finally, it's possible to obtain magical materials. An arrow with a darkwood shaft, angel feathers for fletching and a basilisk bone tip... Enough said.

And that's just arrows. The bow itself can be made of wood, bone and other materials. Similarly, your axes, spears and other tools are more efficient if you use better materials.

Combat will be more complex than what it is in Goblins: the Exodus. I've been thinking that combat will be grid-based. But you cannot do a lot more than move & attack in combat. Each weapon has accuracy and damage values, and the perks you've selected also affect your ability to hit and deal damage. Armor reduces damage, but armor piercing ignores armor. That's about it, I guess.

There are some "advanced" options such as traps and fortifications that allow you to use the terrain to your advantage.

[Kensen]

So, adding stuff little by little. First let's have a look at the basic stats of a creature (such as one of the goblins):

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[Kensen]

Combat actions and mechanics

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[Kensen]

Perks

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[Kensen]

Weapons and materials

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[Cieyrin]

If you have Spear and Shield, do you keep your reach advantage? Stabbing with one hand makes me think you shouldn't be able to, as you can't quite extend as much as if you're two-handing it, though perhaps I haven't watched 300 in a while.

As for critting, i'd make it part of the to hit roll if you get 90-100 on your roll. Reducing number of rolls quickens posting, which is important if we're gonna move multiple gobbos about the battlefield per turn.

Also, no Hammer perks? Color me a little disappointed, as I could see at least a stun effect on crits. The same for Knives, as you could at least do dual wielding and a bleed effect on crit. Maybe even extend the crit range of knives with a perk. =D

That's what I got right now. I eagerly await to see some Bow perks, as well as the extent of bow and arrow mods that can be done.

[Kensen]

Yes you keep the reach advantage, but you lose the damage bonus. Spear & shield is a powerful combo, and it's no coincidence that many historical armies fielded units using that combo. The larger shields and spears have high encumberance values, though, which means that your mobility will be reduced somewhat. Also, in tight quarters an axe fighter will easily beat the spear fighter.

The crit chance is not actually a static 10%, it's one tenth of your chance to hit. My wording was vague, sorry about that. If you have a 60% chance to hit an opponent, there's a 6% chance to score a critical hit. Like so:

01-06 Double damage, ignore armor
07-60 Normal damage
61-00 Miss

I was also thinking that maybe there's a chance to hit you opponent's weapon or shield. If, for example, the opponent has a shield that gives him +10% defence, there's a 10% chance to hit the shield. The shield takes the damage minus its "armor" value, based on the material. What do you think?

There are no hammer perks yet. The list I posted is by no means complete, just a start. I'll be sure add hammer perks later, but I haven't decided yet how to make the hammer seem unique as a weapon. The spear has reach, the axe is versatile, and the bow&arrow is very customizable. The stun effect is a good idea. Maybe the damage negated by armor still counts towards knocking an opponent unconscious or something like that.

I may add knife perks later, but it's really just a back-up weapon and tool. Maybe dual wielding as you suggested, or throwing, or something that allows you to make better grab and stab attacks. To keep things relatively simple, I probably won't add rules for bleeding damage as it increases the amount of bookkeeping. Similarly, there won't be many conditions to keep track of - you're either fully functional, unconscious or dead.

As for bow perks, I'll add a few more later. I'll probably add a perk that increases the bow's range.

[Cieyrin]

I was also thinking that maybe there's a chance to hit you opponent's weapon or shield. If, for example, the opponent has a shield that gives him +10% defence, there's a 10% chance to hit the shield. The shield takes the damage minus its "armor" value, based on the material. What do you think?

So we're adding a sundering mechanic? That may get a bit overly complicated, though if it's just that damaged equipment is less functional, like -5-10% accuracy and -2 damage or -5% deflection, then I could see that not being too bad. If we need to also keep track of an endurance total for weapons and shields, that may not be desirable.

There are no hammer perks yet. The list I posted is by no means complete, just a start. I'll be sure add hammer perks later, but I haven't decided yet how to make the hammer seem unique as a weapon. The spear has reach, the axe is versatile, and the bow&arrow is very customizable. The stun effect is a good idea. Maybe the damage negated by armor still counts towards knocking an opponent unconscious or something like that.

By knocked unconscious, is this the "Lose 50% or more health in one blow" thing? If there was some mechanic for the hammer have to hit a lesser threshold for achieving that, I could see that as feasible.

[Kensen]

So we're adding a sundering mechanic? That may get a bit overly complicated, though if it's just that damaged equipment is less functional, like -5-10% accuracy and -2 damage or -5% deflection, then I could see that not being too bad. If we need to also keep track of an endurance total for weapons and shields, that may not be desirable.

Yes you're probably right. That would only add to the number of things to keep track of. I'll consider adding the rule only if I can figure out a way to make it streamlined enough.

By knocked unconscious, is this the "Lose 50% or more health in one blow" thing? If there was some mechanic for the hammer have to hit a lesser threshold for achieving that, I could see that as feasible.

Yes, I was talking about that. I guess it would make sense. Blunt objects are more likely to incapacitate than wound your opponent, compared to sharp objects.

[Kensen]

Sample creatures

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[BobElliot]

I'm intrigued. All the ideas so far sound like a great deal of fun, and I really enjoy the Exodus game for its ease of use and casual feel that I think will easily extend over to here. Is there a different thread that you want people to sign up on? I just followed your sig to get here, but a remember a bigger thread somewhere.

As far as my input, I wonder what will be the starting amount of perks/rate of xp will be. How complex can the builds get, and how fast can we expect them to grow?

[Cieyrin]

Is there going to be a difference between full attacks and single attack, as I notice the White Hounds seem to make 2 bites a round and it makes me wonder how that'll work.

[Kensen]

It's just one attack, but their accuracy and damage values are better if they enter the opponent's square (=range 0). Exactly like the knife, in fact. A range 1 bite is a cautious nibble, while a range 0 bite is more like leaping on the prey and using paws to get a better hold of the opponent.

This being the first draft, there isn't as much explanatory text as there should be, sorry about that. There probably won't be "full attacks" at all. Dual wielders don't get two attacks either, it only increases the accuracy of the attack because you can better feint and break the opponent's guard with two weapons.

[Cieyrin]

It's just one attack, but their accuracy and damage values are better if they enter the opponent's square (=range 0). Exactly like the knife, in fact. A range 1 bite is a cautious nibble, while a range 0 bite is more like leaping on the prey and using paws to get a better hold of the opponent.

This being the first draft, there isn't as much explanatory text as there should be, sorry about that. There probably won't be "full attacks" at all. Dual wielders don't get two attacks either, it only increases the accuracy of the attack because you can better feint and break the opponent's guard with two weapons.

Ah, fair enough, then. That makes perfect sense, though having an explanation of the effects of entering other creatures' space would help, I think, when you get that far.

[Kensen]

I'm intrigued. All the ideas so far sound like a great deal of fun, and I really enjoy the Exodus game for its ease of use and casual feel that I think will easily extend over to here. Is there a different thread that you want people to sign up on? I just followed your sig to get here, but a remember a bigger thread somewhere.

As far as my input, I wonder what will be the starting amount of perks/rate of xp will be. How complex can the builds get, and how fast can we expect them to grow?

Thanks. There no recruitment thread yet. Actually, it'll probably take a couple or weeks or maybe even months to finish writing the rules. Pretty much everything I've written so far can be seen in this thread. I hope it's enough to get an idea of how the game works, so you can better suggest improvements and so on.

As for starting perks, I'm not sure yet. It largely depends on the total number of perks. If there are, say, 100 perks to choose from, you'll probably start with five to ten perks. But I think I'll limit the perk selection somehow so you won't be able, for example, to pick all spear perks right off the bat and totally suck at everything else. Perhaps a maximum of two perks from each category.

[ForzaFiori]

You might wanna look at rules for domesticating animals. That way more advanced tribes might have a group of cows or something that they keep, and therefor have a ready supply of some of the more basic stuff (fur, meat, sinew, bone) or even horses, and therefor a tactical advantage in combat.

[Cieyrin]

You might wanna look at rules for domesticating animals. That way more advanced tribes might have a group of cows or something that they keep, and therefor have a ready supply of some of the more basic stuff (fur, meat, sinew, bone) or even horses, and therefor a tactical advantage in combat.

Given they're goblins, perhaps wolves would be more appropriate as mounts? As for herd animals, I'd think they'd prefer to handle goats and sheep over cows, as they're less likely to get crushed that way.

[Kensen]

So far I've only been thinking of adding an "Animal trainer" perk that allows your goblin to get an animal companion, sort of. Not sure of the actual mechanics yet, but maybe if you're able to defeat an animal in single combat without killing it, you can use the perk to befriend it.

It'll follow you around and help you if it can, but it'll revert back to its combat tactics if something threatens it. In other words, a bunnit will run away and return only after it's safe again, while a white hound will use the same pack tactics as when hunting with members of its own species. Just an idea.

EDIT: And so that it won't get out of hand too easily, you can only have one animal friend at a time.

[Kensen]

ARMOR

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[Cieyrin]

Is scale leather going to be one of those armors that can be only crafted by those with appropriate Crafter perks, as it seems to need a bit more technical know-how than Boiled Leather does? Perhaps those are yet to come, eh?

Also, is leather essentially going to be a processed material, as you can't really just get that off an animal like other things?

Finally the numbers look alright preliminarily for defense values but yeah, some playtesting to determine how well they work is probably in order.

EDIT: Also good on the one animal companion limit, as managing multiple animal minions seems to me to be a stretch of the mental capacities of gobbos, given they're primarily hunter-gatherer types, it would seem. Not very knowledgable yet in the matters of Animal Husbandry and the values of herding.

[Kensen]

Scale armor is more difficult and time-consuming to make than the other types of leather armor. I'm not sure yet how I'm going to implement the crafting perks, but maybe each perk unlocks a couple of new object types. Each object type also has a tool requirement, e.g. boiled leather requires something to heat water in.

Yes, leather is a processed material. You need fur to make leather (the skin of reptiles and other types of animals can be used as well).

An idea for crafting perks:

Basic perks: Leatherworking, woodworking, etc. With these perks you can make simple items from the specified type of material. Leatherworking, for example unlocks the secrets of tanning, boiling and cutting leather, and enables making pouches, backpacks, armor, clothes, straps, etc. from leather.

Advanced perks: Armor making, bow making, etc. With these perks you can make specialized items for the specified purpose. To make scale armor, you need both Leatherworking and Armor making. To craft a composite bow, you need Woodworking, Bow making, and a perk that covers bone and horn.

[Cieyrin]

Scale armor is more difficult and time-consuming to make than the other types of leather armor. I'm not sure yet how I'm going to implement the crafting perks, but maybe each perk unlocks a couple of new object types. Each object type also has a tool requirement, e.g. boiled leather requires something to heat water in.

Yes, leather is a processed material. You need fur to make leather (the skin of reptiles and other types of animals can be used as well).

An idea for crafting perks:

Basic perks: Leatherworking, woodworking, etc. With these perks you can make simple items from the specified type of material. Leatherworking, for example unlocks the secrets of tanning, boiling and cutting leather, and enables making pouches, backpacks, armor, clothes, straps, etc. from leather.

Advanced perks: Armor making, bow making, etc. With these perks you can make specialized items for the specified purpose. To make scale armor, you need both Leatherworking and Armor making. To craft a composite bow, you need Woodworking, Bow making, and a perk that covers bone and horn.

Sounds just like how I thought it would work. It'll come down to how many perks are available at creation, how many gobbos are available and rate of acquiring perks that'll really clinch this, methinks, though that's quite a bit to spell out quite yet. Good on you, though, I likes what I'm seeing.

[Kensen]

Materials value and encumberance

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[Kensen]

Taurukk added to sample creatures, perk list updated!

[Cieyrin]

Ooo, lots of new stuff to look at! =3

My only comment on Taurukk is that their trample should probably hit multiple opponents, though how that'll work in your system, I have no clue.

For the perks, I like the use of tiers but will there also be perk trees, like weapon proficiency opening up expertise, followed by mastery? Will gobbos be created with a certain amount of XP to be spent on perks?

On specific perks, Animal Trainer seems like it should be an advanced perk, leading off from Tracker, as you learn more about the natural world and applying said knowledge, like knowing what kind of food the white hounds like and use it to establish to a white hound that you're a member of its pack and should be protected as such.

Skirmish seems more of a Mobility perk and could lead off of the speed perk as an advanced perk of the tree.

It also seems like shields should have some perks available, beginning with proficiency so that you don't trip over your shield when trying to move about to making better use of one to possibly even attacking with one to momentarily confuse an enemy, dropping their accuracy down a notch.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.