Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Lateral's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Boston, The World
    Gender
    Male

    Default Tucker's Kobolds (4e)

    How can I make 4e Tucker's Kobolds? They don't have to be kobolds but they have to be wimpy. I'm playing a 4e campaign with my little brother, and he's a massive powergamer and rules lawyer, so I want to throw him a challenge. A real, non-RAW challenge.

    Edit: He's playing all 5 characters- a wizard, a cleric, a warlock, a fighter, and a rogue. He's... not a very good optimizer, but he just hates it when he doesn't thrash any foes instantly and is constantly saying "Blah, Blah! You can't do this! I can do that! It says right here [insert horrifying logic]! Rule 0 is teh n00b 5uxx0r5!" and stuff like that. He doesn't do it on purpose though (he's little). I want to give him a real challenge that he won't complain about because it's founded on rule zero, and maybe make him see that rule zero makes for a better game. To do that, I was planning on setting up a Tucker's Kobolds scenario then reducing it to a good level. So, cheese away, please .
    Last edited by Lateral; 2010-12-02 at 09:39 PM.
    AWAY FOR A WEEK SHOULD BE BACK SUNDAY

    Latatar by Crimmy. May his bonfires blaze eternal.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Seerow's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tucker's Kobolds (4e)

    What's the group comp like? How many players? What level of optimization are we looking at? You're saying your brother is a major powergamer, but compared to some people on this forum he could be a gimp.


    But really, the biggest thing is just being creative with the traps, ambush tactics, hit and run, staying a step of the party via tunnels the party's too big to follow into, etc. Make sure the party has an actual reason to want to go through the area the kobolds have trapped.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kaun's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The DownUnderdark!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tucker's Kobolds (4e)

    Goblins are suprisingly deadly when they use inteligent strats.
    I shall drink until pants no longer make sense!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Tucker's Kobolds (4e)

    Take a lot of the really low level goblins (I think there's a level 1 minion, that's about right) in large numbers (like 16-20 at a time) and have them all act at once: 16-20 attacks, half of which hit, means 8-10 hits for 5 damage apiece. Gang up on one PC at a time (Ranged attacks are great), since 50 damage will knock out pretty much any character up to 5th level, and it'll kill almost any 1st-level.

    Put them in favorable terrain: small-sized tunnels with tiny-size chokepoints, traps (if they trigger by pressure, make it set to only trigger for Medium or larger creatures), chambers with firing positions behind the walls, with arrow slits that provide concealment and superior cover.

    Make them run away whenever the PCs get a clear shot at them, only to regroup at the next chokepoint. Attack from their rear using hidden tunnels. If your dungeon is non-linear, put goblins in rooms they've already cleared after they leave, so that if the PCs retreat (and they should) they run into reinforcements.

    If you want to be nasty, give them some nasty gadgets or alchemicals: when the group is stuck in a tight space, drop alchemist's fire on top of them. All bunched together, you should be able to get most of the group in a burst.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tucker's Kobolds (4e)

    Just remember that the important aspect of Tucker's kobolds is not the kobolds. Kobolds were simply used because the players didn't consider them a threat.

    The point of Tucker's kobolds is to use intelligent tactics when you have the home field advantage. The [insert nominally harmless creature here] has already claimed this area and is intelligent enough to take advantage of the fact that he knows the terrain.
    My girlfriend(non-gamer) after watching me play an RPG on the Xbox: "So, you're just killing people and taking their stuff?"
    Me-.....Right!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh's Fist View Post
    "You weak minded fools! If you had the strength of will to look past his illusionary fire, you would see that - OH GOD, IT BURNS! IT BURNS EVEN HOTTER THAN THE REAL THING!"

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2007

    Default Re: Tucker's Kobolds (4e)

    Goblins would also be great here. Goblin blackblades (lvl 1 lurker) and sharpshooters (lvl 2 artillery) in tight quarters with lots of traps that grant CA to the goblins can be a nightmare for a party with AC's of less than about 20 or so. Put in lots of places where they can get concealment, and a group of about 10 or so can probably give a level 5 or 6 party a really rough time. Add terrain hazards, superior cover like arrowslits, and even a single goblin hexer, and you can make a PTSD-inducing adventure.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: Tucker's Kobolds (4e)

    Kobolds are very good Tucker's Kobolds. The Shifty ability makes them pretty good at hit-and-run tactics.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Mando Knight's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2007

    Default Re: Tucker's Kobolds (4e)

    He likes to knock things down in one hit? Fine. Use minions. Lots of minions. The trick? The minions aren't the hard part, even though they'll be nearly all of the monsters on the field. The problem is that the minions have ranged attacks, cover, and traps. Individually, the minions go down when your lil' bro looks at them. However, they will lure the fighter onto trapped tiles that deal the real damage, duck behind cover to avoid the Wizard and Warlock, and their ranged attacks will torment the Fighter as he tries to hold them off of Mr. Robe And Squishy Gut. Add in a big guy (i.e. a Soldier or Brute, possibly Elite) to distract the Fighter and Rogue, and the minions will be terrifying. Kid will start to look for any way he can turn the encounter to his side.

    Furthermore, lurkers, such as Black Dragons. Black Dragons also make terrifyingly annoying bosses when played well. Ever figured out how to gun down a Black Dragon easily when it's of the same level or a little higher? You would be the first. It's invisible 75% of the time, always benefiting from Total Concealment even when you know where it is, and gets to use its bladed tail against an enemy that fails a melee attack against it. It can drop its Cloud of Darkness on the Wizard, fly over to it, and hide in the cloud each turn (Sustain minor. Guess which action the Black Dragon has no use for otherwise?) to take out the squishy guy, then repeat it on the Cleric, then the Fighter. The Rogue and Warlock can't do anything, and so can be saved for dessert.
    Avatar by Mr. Saturn

    Magic... magic never changes

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Tucker's Kobolds (4e)

    I agree with using lots 'n lots of minions. As an alternative to using kobolds, how about making a necromancer enemy that animates 1d6 skeletons every turn?

    Note, however, that anything with automatic damage (e.g. Armor of Agathys, Rain of Steel, or any number of wizard spells that make a zone) will obliterate minions faster than you can blink.
    Crystal Shard Studios - classy freeware games!

    Utility Belt wizard (Batman 4E-style) * Chocolate!

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    dsmiles's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In the T.A.R.D.I.S.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tucker's Kobolds (4e)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    He likes to knock things down in one hit? Fine. Use minions. Lots of minions. The trick? The minions aren't the hard part, even though they'll be nearly all of the monsters on the field. The problem is that the minions have ranged attacks, cover, and traps. Individually, the minions go down when your lil' bro looks at them. However, they will lure the fighter onto trapped tiles that deal the real damage, duck behind cover to avoid the Wizard and Warlock, and their ranged attacks will torment the Fighter as he tries to hold them off of Mr. Robe And Squishy Gut. Add in a big guy (i.e. a Soldier or Brute, possibly Elite) to distract the Fighter and Rogue, and the minions will be terrifying. Kid will start to look for any way he can turn the encounter to his side.

    Furthermore, lurkers, such as Black Dragons. Black Dragons also make terrifyingly annoying bosses when played well. Ever figured out how to gun down a Black Dragon easily when it's of the same level or a little higher? You would be the first. It's invisible 75% of the time, always benefiting from Total Concealment even when you know where it is, and gets to use its bladed tail against an enemy that fails a melee attack against it. It can drop its Cloud of Darkness on the Wizard, fly over to it, and hide in the cloud each turn (Sustain minor. Guess which action the Black Dragon has no use for otherwise?) to take out the squishy guy, then repeat it on the Cleric, then the Fighter. The Rogue and Warlock can't do anything, and so can be saved for dessert.
    This. Minions are the bomb. (Or maybe minions have bombs...)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-to-effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
    Awesomesauce Doctor WhOotS-atar by Ceika!

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tucker's Kobolds (4e)

    You have a young player who doesn't like it when things don't go his way, and you're going to make things not go his way through shaky rules interpretations and/or homebrew traps?
    Hello milky way...

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    kestrel404's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009

    Default Re: Tucker's Kobolds (4e)

    The Kobold's Shifty ability is ridiculously useful if you're fighting someone in a maze of twisty passages (the Kobold's preferred terrain).
    First, you create a maze-like map with lots of 5-square long, 1-square wide halls that T at both ends. Then you give all the kobolds a bonus-movement feat or two so they can move at least 6 squares on a move action.
    Then, you simply have one shift into the end-square of a hall, use a standard to throw a burning flask of oil (hits the TILE that the PC is standing on, deals splash damage, so AC doesn't matter, and even the half-damage against the reflex value will add up) then move action to past the end of the NEXT T junction (turning the corner and getting out of sight).

    All of the hallways are, of course, trapped. One of those six squares must be jumped over by the kobolds. PCs that move incautiously through a hallway will trigger the trap, which causes a gate to clang down at the end of the hallway (since it doesn't deal damage, there's no hit roll). The gate is iron, and locks in place - a thievery check of low DC, followed by a strength check to reset the trap can remove the obstacle - but this prevents the heroes from charging down the tunnels after the kobolds.

    If a hero manages to double-move, guessing the correct tiles to jump, then the Kobold will use a minor to drop an instant smoke bomb (burst 1, total concealment, lasts until the end of your next round, which also prevents AoOs), he then jumps over the appropriate tile and runs around the corner. Then his FRIEND comes out from around that same corner, throws a ROCK onto the trapped tile (causing the gate to clang down, blocking off the party again), and continues to move down the corridor. And all the party sees is the smoke cloud, and hears a loud clang of a gate.

    There are several other tactics you can apply to this scenario, especially those that involve splitting the party and picking them off one at a time (pit traps that lead to other areas of the dungeon and then seal behind the trapee are especially nice for this).

    Hope that helps.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Oct 2010

    Default Re: Tucker's Kobolds (4e)

    You can't do tucker's any thing by useing hordes of minions, It's not that you got beat by mooks in an appropriate level encounter, it's the fact that 5CR worth of Kobold can send your level 15 party packing.

    I agree with the actually useing Kobolds, primarily because of their shifty ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoodbyeSoberDay
    You have a young player who doesn't like it when things don't go his way, and you're going to make things not go his way through shaky rules interpretations and/or homebrew traps?
    The point of the encounter is at the end you can flip over the DMG and MM and show the hard math on the CR of what they fought, It's a learning experience/thought excercise not a campaign encounter.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Mando Knight's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2007

    Default Re: Tucker's Kobolds (4e)

    Quote Originally Posted by GoodbyeSoberDay View Post
    You have a young player who doesn't like it when things don't go his way, and you're going to make things not go his way through shaky rules interpretations and/or homebrew traps?
    Noooo, the idea is to make things not go his way by RAW, then save him by showing him how DM adjudication can be a good thing.
    Avatar by Mr. Saturn

    Magic... magic never changes

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Lateral's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Boston, The World
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tucker's Kobolds (4e)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Swindle89 View Post
    The point of the encounter is at the end you can flip over the DMG and MM and show the hard math on the CR of what they fought, It's a learning experience/thought excercise not a campaign encounter.
    YES. This. Plus, I'm not throwing a full-blown Tucker's at him. This is a thought exercise that will be toned down to a level which I feel will be best. He will end up winning by his own power, but I want to show him that D&D is best when you don't whine all the time.
    AWAY FOR A WEEK SHOULD BE BACK SUNDAY

    Latatar by Crimmy. May his bonfires blaze eternal.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •